2 bollocks statements right there. God, you piss me off to no end! You don't seem to value the opinions of those who disagree with you. Your like a bloody dictator!!
I believe that PES 2011 does offer more freedom, on the pitch at least.
You talk about PES 2011 not being an improvement on 2010 being a FACT. You keep using this word, yet I see no evidence. You cannot prove a fact without evidence!!!
What do you mean "judge you on something I have not done"???? Where have I judged you?? You constantly insult people who don't agree with you (including myself and iamcanadianeh).... like you're soooo high and mighty!!!
My comments relfect someone who doesn't know a lot about football? Where are you getting this from?? I'm trying to to swear at you because I don't want to get banned.... but you're really irritating me now.... and others aswell.
WHERE did I say my opinion amounts to a fact??? That's what YOU are doing!! I said my opinion was indeed an OPINION!!!
I did not say anyone who disagrees with me is a moron.
You know, I'm constantly posting in the PES 2011 section of this site, trying to help people when they're stuck, offering advice with players etc. All you do is bitch and moan!! Give it a rest.... take a break from this section of the forum and come back when the next game comes along. It's like you're trying to start arguments on purpose. Trying to get everyone to say "you know what, PES is a shit game, I will stop playing this rubbish until they improve it, thanks Amateur... my lord and saviour".
Jeeeeeeez!
Dude, what the fuck is your deal? really? did you not noticed that the second comments were directed at Football777?
Or were you just that eager to share with me how much of a dictator you think I am?
To my eyes, my suggestions are a lot more positive and constructive than your "helpful" suggestions, because unlike you, I am talking mostly about facts; you on the other hand, cannot get enough about your own opinion since everything you ever do in PESGaming is talk about your own opinion.
Like when you say that all I do is bitch and moan -- your opinion, redundant, and far from the truth.
I do not come here only to bitch and moan you fucking tater salad, by saying that PES10 is a thousand times better when you use the L2 Strategies I am giving a fucking positive and constructive suggestion; forgive me if, to your eyes, I am not as good a person as you are, oh lord.
The only thing I have said, is that PES10 does in fact offer more freedom than PES11 as a complete package.
It is a fact, and you cannot grasp such a simple truth: do you honestly think I care about if you think that I am a dictator?
Fuck that. You want to call me a dictator *lol* go right ahead, but I am not forcing anything, I am talking about a fact that remains a fact regardless of your opinion or my opinion; actually, I am offended by how you talk to me when I have not said anything offensive to you.
Knowing when and where something will happen because I am going to dictate when and where it will happen.... is freedom.... because it does what I want it to do when and where I want it to happen, even though I never exactly know how the computer will react to it, at least I know what I intend to do: I have control over the script of the game, which makes it feel like a video game rather than a movie.
With PES11, you could argue that you have more freedom in certain areas, but as a complete package, you do not have the same freedom that PES10 offered because you do not have the freedom of affecting the script -- the freedom of controlling the ball carrier and at the same time dictating the movement of a player who does not have the ball at his feet -- PES11 does not offers that freedom, this is a fact that can be proven with hours of video footage.
I do not care if you believe me, and I will probably provide evidence to support this fact somewhere in the future perhaps, but not at the moment.
If you think I am talking shit then so be it, I find it offensive and undeserved and also baseless since you do not actually know what I'm talking about, but you are entitled to have your own opinion about it, of course, and I do respect your opinion, but I just do not respect when you make your opinion an argument.
I do value opinions, and I do respect opinions, but quite simply, my argument has little to do with opinions.
My opinion is that PES10 showed more potential than PES11, your opinion is that PES11 is an improvement over PES10; hopefully you do understand that when we talk about a certain game being better than the other, is entirely subjective, since every person will see it differently.
You could argue that PES11 is the better game because unlike PES10 it is a more structured game; on the other hand, another person could argue that PES10 was the better game because despite the lack of direction and the lack of structure, the game did offered more nuances as a complete package.
I am not saying that my opinion is a fact, because I do not think that PES10 is in fact better than PES11; however, what I am saying is fairly simple, that as a complete package PES10 does in fact offers more freedom than PES11.
That fact is as clear as daylight really, but it becomes apparent only after you break the game, which is a problem because it means that the game has no structure to it.
The difference between my argument and your argument, is that I am talking about something that you can actually test for yourself and make your opinion about; on the other hand, you are talking about something that I cannot test for myself, because unlike you, when I play PES11 I do not see an improvement over PES10, and how can you possibly prove that I am wrong and that you are right?
That's all I'm saying.
"PES 2010 has more freedom than PES 2011". Wow, what a great way to start my day. I never realised ping-pong passing is freedom.
I can't find a single answer here that replies to iamcanadianeh's quite valid argument:
If we use your idealised manual passing system, then where does player individuality (a.k.a. stats) go?
Then again, knowing you, you'd probably start dissing me for not being a "real" fan or not having a real argument because I didn't use the L2 strategy in PES 2010 (I assure you that I did use L2 Strat, but
surely not as much as you, since you are so very high and mighty about it and I am not, there must be something wrong with me amidoinitrite?).
This really brings me back to
my first argument with you and what I said at the time; Your attitude: What you think is correct, and anyone else who disagrees with you is a retard or worse. At this point, it's pretty much hopeless to even have a civil debate with someone as stubborn as you are.
My idealized manual passing system would be a system where the defender can intercept the pass if he makes the correct measurements in terms of direction, distance, and timing.
Movement inside the space without affecting movement through space would be essential to everything, meaning that a player with good "passing technique" will have better inside-the-space passing animations than the average player: it is the equivalent of having three times more player individuality than the current system.
The current system does not really offers that much in terms of player individuality, because you cannot affect movement inside the space without affecting movement through space, which means that player individuality is really not physical, but an illusion where every player has the same identical animations but where the computer simply decides the player individuality -- the user cannot actually use the stats.
In my idealized system for passing the ball, the user would need to use the stats, which changes everything; it would not only be about passing accuracy, but also about the technique to disguise your passes and thus make it more difficult for the opponent to intercept your passes.
If you cannot affect movement inside the space because it is impossible, this means that the game lacks the time and space that is necessary to implement all the substance that is needed in order to actually use the stats as opposed to the stats working automatically without the manual input of the user.
Also, in my idealized system, it would be impossible for the passing buttons to be the same when attacking and when defending; therefore, as a defender, it would be impossible to intercept the ball and give a first time pass by using the same passing buttons that you use when you have the ball at your feet / when already in possession of the ball before your first touch on the ball.
@LOL-ness
I played Full Manual passing on FIFA and I really liked it, but as you say passing stats would mean nothing if it was fully manual.
I think there could be ways to implement manual passing with stats taken into account, like the AI deciding the speed of the delivery (e.g. back-spin or driven) and curl. At the moment manual passing pretty much has one speed and the ball will slowly roll to a stop if no one collects it, whereas skilled passers in real life can pass it at pace and make it stop quicker with back spin.
You cannot have REAL MANUAL if it is impossible to affect movement inside the space.
Because....
If it is impossible to affect movement inside the space, this means that you cannot actually use the space that you can see, meaning that a big looking square of 30 feet of distance would actually feel like a much smaller square of 10 feet of distance.
So, how would it be possible to pass the ball into a space that does not exists within the practical confines of the video game?
It is impossible.... if it is impossible to affect movement inside the space without affecting movement through space, it is impossible to have REAL MANUAL passing.
But make no mistakes, REAL MANUAL passing would only increase (not decrease) the player individuality.
Certain people have talked about doing more things with passes, like adding an after spin, etc.
But I think it is all about prioritizing on what is most important: is it more important to add some after spin into a pass when you cannot affect the actual script that determines passing?
Or is it more important to not have the ability of adding a back spin into your pass but to have actual control over the target of the pass aka the actual script that ultimately determines the direction and effectiveness of passing?
In a video game, unlike in real life, you cannot have both, because there's just not enough buttons on the control and not enough fingers on our hands; so you can either have one or the other, never both.
My opinion is, that key problem with PES and FIFA is that the user ultimately depends on a script which is completely determined by a computer.
So even if I had the ability of adding back spin when passing the ball, that would not fix the fact that the computer can still bend the laws of physics by simply bending the script of the game.
Therefore, despite my new found ability of adding back spin when passing the ball, the computer would still have the ability of scripting the game and fucking up my back spin regardless of how good I am at adding some back spin into passes, and thus, neglecting my ability as a gamer.
I am fully convinced that it is a fact that the most glaring flaw of PES and FIFA, is that a script that is out of your jurisdiction, actually undermines your ability as a gamer.
So even if you have the ability of adding back spin to your passes; the computer would still have the ability of scripting the game and fucking up your back spin.
I think that adding a back spin would be a superficial detail which would not fix the fundamental flaws of the game.
In any case, at the end of the day, if you fix fundamental flaws such as the fact that it is impossible to affect movement inside the space without affecting your position on the pitch, this would also come hand-in-hand with improvements in terms of passing, tackling, shooting, etc, etc.
