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PES Rage Thread: Rage till your heart's content...

Ali

It is happening again
I was playing against Bolton as Spurs and in the last minute a ball was played to Kevin Davis from midfield. I tried to tackle him by switching to my defender but the game wouldn't let me - he then hit a shot that was tipped over the bar. The corner come in and my defenders again went fkin walkabout and he headed in the winner.

If you are a proper Spurs fan, you should know that they've never been able to handle Kevin Davies. It's the same with West Ham. So this is not scripting at all. In fact, it's quite realistic :D

Dont even get me started on the out of date transfers.........:no:

The update is out soon, don't worry.
 

coolio_jack

Registered User
I bought PES 2011 at the weekend because I was getting frustrated with FIFA - or I thought I was before I played this sh1t.

I don't know where to begin but the main flaw for me was the blatant scripting. I can honestly say that I have never seen anything like it.

I know its been brought up on this thread and site numerous occasions but the scripting is not only blatant - its almost unstoppable.

I was playing against Bolton as Spurs and in the last minute a ball was played to Kevin Davis from midfield. I tried to tackle him by switching to my defender but the game wouldn't let me - he then hit a shot that was tipped over the bar. The corner come in and my defenders again went fkin walkabout and he headed in the winner.

At no point did I have (or could I) control my defenders. This game should not have been released.:realmad:

Dont even get me started on the out of date transfers.........:no:

Man, you're playing the game since this weekend, and yet you already think you can notice scripting :rolleyes:

There is some momentum shifts in this game, but nothing you can't do something about it.
 

fick

Registered User
"momentum shifts"

Where the hell did this phrase start in relation to PES? Only really seen it today & find it most amusing. To me, it sounds like a politically correct way of saying 'cheating bastard'.
 

Ali

It is happening again
"momentum shifts"

Where the hell did this phrase start in relation to PES? Only really seen it today & find it most amusing. To me, it sounds like a politically correct way of saying 'cheating bastard'.

Seabass came up with the phrase. I think it was back in PS2 days.
 

fick

Registered User
I knew the guy was a genius :)

Still, I'm slightly concerned that if this has been bandied about for several years that I've managed to completely miss it! Maybe I should read properly instead of skimming text for important words/phrases. Bad habit from my old job I guess.
 

S-D-P

Registered User
The momentum shifts mainly started with pes 1-5, their was a system in which goals were easier to come by at the half time point and towards the end of the match, Seabass also said a few years back "he wanted games to run like little stories" read into that what you will.
 

Ali

It is happening again
The momentum shifts mainly started with pes 1-5, their was a system in which goals were easier to come by at the half time point and towards the end of the match, Seabass also said a few years back "he wanted games to run like little stories" read into that what you will.

For me, PES is like one of those "Choose your own adventure" type books.
 

S-D-P

Registered User
I can see where konami are coming from with this, I just think over the past few years they have tried to be too clever and sometimes I score last minute winners or goals that seem set up in my favour rather than the game just simulating the stats and variables.

Scripting or whatever you wanna call it has to be in the game for it to function, the issue is finding the correct balance between user input and the variables being simulated realistically.

As much as I hold PES 11 in high regard, KONAMI need to get back to basics before trying to play the game for us, I do find it brilliant how well the game recreates the feel of football and how well stats are implemented into the game, for instance I can usually always look back and see how I scored or conceded a goal from a football perspective, if I miss control the ball for example I can see why like I would in real life, at the same time the game can be blatant with its balancing acts and scripting.
 

Ali

It is happening again
I can see where konami are coming from with this, I just think over the past few years they have tried to be too clever and sometimes I score last minute winners or goals that seem set up in my favour rather than the game just simulating the stats and variables.

Scripting or whatever you wanna call it has to be in the game for it to function, the issue is finding the correct balance between user input and the variables being simulated realistically.

As much as I hold PES 11 in high regard, KONAMI need to get back to basics before trying to play the game for us, I do find it brilliant how well the game recreates the feel of football and how well stats are implemented into the game, for instance I can usually always look back and see how I scored or conceded a goal from a football perspective, if I miss control the ball for example I can see why like I would in real life, at the same time the game can be blatant with its balancing acts and scripting.

Konami have the right ideas IMO, they just take them too far in the wrong direction.

For example, too much "momentum shifting" = scripting. They've also tried to impliment how balance and your angle on goal dictates your shooting... but again they've taken it too far so too many shots are floaters and are hit with that stupid animation
 

marcgiu

Registered User
If you are a proper Spurs fan, you should know that they've never been able to handle Kevin Davies. It's the same with West Ham. So this is not scripting at all. In fact, it's quite realistic :D

The update is out soon, don't worry.

:) - Kevin Davies is good but he isn't that good :rolleyes:

Man, you're playing the game since this weekend, and yet you already think you can notice scripting :rolleyes:

There is some momentum shifts in this game, but nothing you can't do something about it.

I know what you mean but I shouldn't have to try harder to stop scripting - I had 2 defenders around him and neither of them were responding to my control inputs.

I have to be honest - I was half looking for scripting (having read posts on this forum) but was not expecting it to be this blatant:no:

I hate to say it but is made me appreciate FIFA 11 more (ducking for cover.......)
 

Amateur

Registered User
The bottom line is,

The game will be more and more scripted, because the core fundamentals are the same as ever, and yet Konami is trying to create an illusion of freedom, adding a new layer of bullshit to the aforementioned illusion of freedom, on a yearly basis.

The problem is, that at the end of the day, you have video games like PES11 and FIFA11, wich are amongst the most scripted video games of all times.

The new passing freedom and the illusion of freedom that it creates, means that the movement without the ball is more scripted than ever: players not running when they should, running when they shouldn't, ridiculous off-sides.

Back in the PS2 days, the passing system felt more scripted and more assisted; however, the movement without the ball was more consistent, players actually made intelligent and responsive runs without the ball, because Konami was compensating for the lack of freedom in terms of passing directions.

If Konami added more freedom in terms of passing directions and yet kept the same intelligent and responsive PS2 game in terms of movement without the ball, you would have an unplayable video game that would play at a hundred miles per hour, it would be faster than PES08, it would be unplayable.

Therefore, more freedom in terms of passing directions comes at the expense of dumbing-down the movement without the ball....

Do you understand what the real problem is?

The game cannot offer both freedom in terms of passing and consistency in terms of movement without the ball.... because offering both types of freedom would make the game too fast and therefore unplayable.

And why is it that it cannot offer both types of freedom?

Because the root of the problem has not been touched: by directing the left analog stick without the assistance of any other button, it is possible to cover spaces of over 50 feet of distance.

This means that the variety in terms of running speeds is very limited, because you do not actually need a running button in order to run, the player runs automatically in accordance to the direction that you give with the left analog stick; which means that it is impossible to actually move inside the space, because directing the left analog stick will have the player moving through space.

Remember that the pitch would feel bigger if it was possible to move inside the space, therefore you would have the space and the time that is required in order to implement more substance and more freedom into the game.

The current problem is, that Konami and EA Sports do not have the space nor the time required to implement more freedom and more substance into the game; which is why they keep dumbing down the movement without the ball.
 

muscularmatt

Registered User
 

Ali

It is happening again
:) - Kevin Davies is good but he isn't that good :rolleyes:



I know what you mean but I shouldn't have to try harder to stop scripting - I had 2 defenders around him and neither of them were responding to my control inputs.

I have to be honest - I was half looking for scripting (having read posts on this forum) but was not expecting it to be this blatant:no:

I hate to say it but is made me appreciate FIFA 11 more (ducking for cover.......)

I know that, but he does have a knack of playing against Spurs and West Ham in particular. Soft Southern gits ;)

Amateur- Are you saying that the functionality of the left analogue stick is to blame for the lack of freedom in PES 2011? Please explain more, I have not heard this theory before.
 

Ali

It is happening again
He loves that Left Analogue Stick...............:w00t

I think the idea is that he detests the left analogue stick with a passion. :realmad:

Amateur- What are your feelings on the functionality of the right analogue stick?
 

LOL-ness

Registered User
Amateur- Are you saying that the functionality of the left analogue stick is to blame for the lack of freedom in PES 2011? Please explain more, I have not heard this theory before.

Wow, I just managed to detect a slight whiff of sarcasm. I thought you are serious for a minute there.
 
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