Ref: An honest (and logical) reason why PES is struggling

[Mr Darkstar]

So your on a PES forum and see a problem that people are looking forward to the 2010 release? In other news the earth is round and water is wet many people here play both games on this forum. I dont understand this thread....

LMFAO!!!

Again your right, not a very usefull thread at the end of the day it is down to personal choice, and while we all have our opinions, dont think that if others do not share the same as you they are a fan boy, or insult them.

But as some have said, and rightly so about people being put of by the demo, konami clearly made a shit move there releasing the 4% code -_- as i myself was not impressed by the PES demo, The WE demo restored faith and inlight of recent reviews and videos the game looks on course to be something great.

And once again my biggest piece of advice to anyone and everyone would be....If you dont like pes, go buy fifa and have fun.

 

[T-Rock]

I fail to understand why everyone in this forum has to create their own thread to voice their problems with PES. It's always hilarious how every previews their post with "I've been playing PES since *insert arbitrary date here*" as if that gives them more credibility than the other 1,000 threads of identicle nature.

Really, if you have an opinion of the game post it in a pre-existing thread. All your doing is gunking up the sub-forum.

 

[shaun7]

^Completely agree with your first post Marcgiu... Pes has gone severely downhill since they changed the gameplay mechanics from 5 to 6. Don't really see why I should pay out 30 or so £'s just because a few fan boy's seem to think after 3 poor iterations, we are going to get drastic improvements. Right from ISS Pro Deluxe the series improved, until it hit PES6. Now Seabass seems determined to remove more and more features, as well as worsening the gameplay. The WE demo was on the same level as PES09: disappointing. I've no reason to expect change. Seeing as PES5 remains the best in the series, and its clear PES10 won't be better than it; Then I have no problem in playing 5, 4, or 3 for another year.

You clearly don't know what you're saying. I mean play them both and the difference is night and day.
And also how the hell do you know that pes 10 is gonna be worse than pes 5 when the game hasn't even been released.:no:

 

[StringerBell]

Shaun seriously give it up man. The 2010 thread like Papa has said is deja vu its the same newbies bitching all the time these threads are the same who cares. It won't take away the enjoyment of the game for you its a waste to argue.

 

[shaun7]

^I think you're right. But I still hate to see it happening because it is not fair to pes fans.

 

[StringerBell]

Your right about that its not fair but its a moot point imo. You rarely see the regulars posting in these threads and thats because they all turn into this which game is better nonsense. The game will come out and the majority of these new users arguing this nonsense will move on in the end we will always have Tech Skill :laugh: jk

 

[marcgiu]

Here's a brilliant example of someone who doesn't like pes (maybe hates it, and that's fair enough), but his argument is so incoherent and makes so little sense that it becomes worthless.

the title is 'An honest (and logical) reason why PES is struggling', but you do very little to explain your reasons. Baffling.

The only things i can gather from your post is that you believe there are: "...2 games that play well on the pitch , FIFA being slightly more fluid + one which has far superior presentation and on line options. It becomes a bit of a no brainer." This makes sense, even though for me presentation and online are two issues which I don’t care much about, but if that’s what is important to you then thats cool. It also seems your main annoyance is that there are too many people with ‘blind faith’ for pes, but if you actually browsed this forum you would realize that that is by no means the case.

You appear to be trying to make an argument in the third paragraph, but it is not clear as to what product you are arguing for. I imagine it is for Fifa, but you wouldn’t know it by the way you write.

You would be taking a lot more seriously mate if you made a constructive argument, but it seems that you’ve failed even in this task.

maybe its the simplicity of the argument that confuses you. FIFA has improved so much that - in my opinion - it now surpasses PES in all most areas (inc gameplay). With regards presentation - tell me that you would not be happier if PES 10 had all of the licences that FIFA has.

However I agree that this would mean little if the core gameplay mechanics were not right.

I'm sorry but i find this bit very amusing "its the unconditional loyalty to PES that I find disappointing mate."

Have you been on the fifa 10 forum lately ?, that statement you made can also be applied to fifa 10.
The amount of things that are wrong with fifa 10 this year are quite laughable, especially after fifa 09, The more i play fifa 10 the more i am starting to hate it and see it for what it is.

On top of this the majority of fifa fans are claiming that their game is bug free(ignoring the flaws), there are also lots of fifa fans who are really unhappy with fifa 10 this year. This is the released version were not talking about demo's here. Some are saying the demo of fifa 10 is better than the actual game.

I have not played the we demo but i have the pes2010 demo, even based on just the gameplay i think it's better than fifa 10.

FIFA 10 is by no means perfect - I agree with that.

However most of the bugs seem attributal to the ambitions of the game -they are trying new things and are offering new gamesplay options all the time.

This is not excusable ,but when I compare the withdrawl of the live season option in FIFA 10 because of teething probs with - for example -the appalling replays in PES 7 I believe that PES sometimes struggles to get the basic's right.

I actually don't hate PES - it used to be my favourite game and I used to laugh at FIFA fans loyalty to the glitzy , shallow product they used to buy.

 

[thearsenal]

marcgui:
I got the jist of your argument, but I was saying it was hard to make out. In the third paragraph you make no relation as to what game you are arguing for. As it stands it doesn’t make sense, that’s all.

I would like licences, but for me this is a long way down on the priority list. the fact you can get a patch for licences soon after the game is out makes me less concerned with it.

I personally do not agree that fifa surpasses pes in terms of gameplay, especially after playing the new Fifa. For me it just lacks enjoyment, and I found it very easy to ping pong pass and score with some other large flaws. I know it has been said before about this 'ping pong' passing, but for me it is very apparent. However, like in Fifa 09, the core of the gameplay is pretty decent.

at the end of the day it’s personal preference, and I think you’ll find that most on this forum would concur.

 

[marcgiu]

marcgui:
I got the jist of your argument, but I was saying it was hard to make out. In the third paragraph you make no relation as to what game you are arguing for. As it stands it doesn’t make sense, that’s all.

I would like licences, but for me this is a long way down on the priority list. the fact you can get a patch for licences soon after the game is out makes me less concerned with it.

I personally do not agree that fifa surpasses pes in terms of gameplay, especially after playing the new Fifa. For me it just lacks enjoyment, and I found it very easy to ping pong pass and score with some other large flaws. However, like in Fifa 09, the core of the gameplay is pretty decent. I know it has been said before, and I think its true. at the end of the day it’s personal preference, and I think you’ll find that most on this forum would concur.

It sounds like we agree on the key point then that gameplay is the most important aspect of any football game – that is why FIFA is my choice up to now. The licences are the icing on a very nice cake as far as I am concerned.

I do appreciate other points of view on this and rest assured, if PES 10 gets strong reviews no one will be more please to see it back on track than me. I just can’t see it matching FIFA this year

 

[thearsenal]

It sounds like we agree on the key point then that gameplay is the most important aspect of any football game – that is why FIFA is my choice up to now. The licences are the icing on a very nice cake as far as I am concerned.

I do appreciate other points of view on this and rest assured, if PES 10 gets strong reviews no one will be more please to see it back on track than me. I just can’t see it matching FIFA this year

That's fair enough mate. Won't be long now until everyone will be judging for themselves

 

[marcgiu]

Shaun seriously give it up man. The 2010 thread like Papa has said is deja vu its the same newbies bitching all the time these threads are the same who cares. It won't take away the enjoyment of the game for you its a waste to argue.

yet you continue to argue - if you don't want to bring anything to the thread why bother commenting.
You have pulled me up on my derisory comments in other threads yet you do the same

 

[Ant1975]

The bottom line is, why is it so hard to get a decent Pes game?

Im sorry but if anyone thinks, 08, 09 or even 10 will be better than anything served up on the ps2 you are seriously deluded.

Since the jump to next gen we have lost so much.

We've lost the gameplay, the animation, the a.i to a degree, editing options, stadiums, kit changers, licenses and up until this year graphics.

With 6 you could forgive konami a bit because they ported it, they did the work on ps2 and felt the need to release next gen. But thats where the forgiveness ends. It should have been a launch board for a complete revamp, a revamp that took it to new heights.

Were fifa excels is they rebuilt the game from scratch. They could see it was a dead duck in gameplay terms. When Fifa 08 arrived i was genuinely shocked, i couldnt belief this was a Fifa game especially on manual where you could hit so many different kinds of shots, the graphics with mesh in the kits on closeups etc. It wasnt perfect but it was a massive step forward.

They have built on that.

I agree to an extent the original posters thoughts, there is a lot of brand loyalty and to me it just harms your chances of getting the game the franchise deserves on next gen. If the hardcore user base cant feel like sticking the knife in, why should Seabass change it? if WENB or Pesfan or pes gaming want to butter up an inferior product why would Seabass feel the need to change it? While people still buy it, Konami will keep doing what they are doing.

And thats the issue. Its not whether you feel comfortable playing Pes over Fifa or the likes, its about getting value for money.

I didnt shell out 200-250 quid to play a football game thats WORSE than on a ps2!
Just as you wouldnt shell out to play a worse GTA, Forza or anything else.

So i just hope that when the reviews come in people are honest. yeah it may play ok compared to the demo, but as an overall product its lacking in so many areas for a next gen title and its about time we all woke up. It shouldnt take 3-4 incarnations of a game to get it up to speed.

 

[marcgiu]

The bottom line is, why is it so hard to get a decent Pes game?

Im sorry but if anyone thinks, 08, 09 or even 10 will be better than anything served up on the ps2 you are seriously deluded.

Since the jump to next gen we have lost so much.

We've lost the gameplay, the animation, the a.i to a degree, editing options, stadiums, kit changers, licenses and up until this year graphics.

With 6 you could forgive konami a bit because they ported it, they did the work on ps2 and felt the need to release next gen. But thats where the forgiveness ends. It should have been a launch board for a complete revamp, a revamp that took it to new heights.

Were fifa excels is they rebuilt the game from scratch. They could see it was a dead duck in gameplay terms. When Fifa 08 arrived i was genuinely shocked, i couldnt belief this was a Fifa game especially on manual where you could hit so many different kinds of shots, the graphics with mesh in the kits on closeups etc. It wasnt perfect but it was a massive step forward.

They have built on that.

I agree to an extent the original posters thoughts, there is a lot of brand loyalty and to me it just harms your chances of getting the game the franchise deserves on next gen. If the hardcore user base cant feel like sticking the knife in, why should Seabass change it? if WENB or Pesfan or pes gaming want to butter up an inferior product why would Seabass feel the need to change it? While people still buy it, Konami will keep doing what they are doing.

And thats the issue. Its not whether you feel comfortable playing Pes over Fifa or the likes, its about getting value for money.

I didnt shell out 200-250 quid to play a football game thats WORSE than on a ps2!
Just as you wouldnt shell out to play a worse GTA, Forza or anything else.

So i just hope that when the reviews come in people are honest. yeah it may play ok compared to the demo, but as an overall product its lacking in so many areas for a next gen title and its about time we all woke up. It shouldnt take 3-4 incarnations of a game to get it up to speed.

Good post mate - I particulary agree with the Forza analogy. This is a product that has stepped up to the next gen. You could say the same about tiger woods, madden and Halo

 

[twisteddeeds]

So i just hope that when the reviews come in people are honest. yeah it may play ok compared to the demo, but as an overall product its lacking in so many areas for a next gen title and its about time we all woke up. It shouldnt take 3-4 incarnations of a game to get it up to speed.

I hope so... especially now that fifa got all those glowing reviews... and the final game is riddled with problems.. it just took fifa 10 incarnations... to get it up to speed...

in my opinion fifa is now like a movie version of football, all bells and whistles.. but with no soul... when you watch it play it doesnt look like a real football match... i have bought both fifa and pes for a number of years now but even though pes has declined.. the core fundamentals have always been there... it makes you feel like your playing a proper match.

I've already voiced my opinions on fifa so i won't go over it all again.. but if they have the licences how come in fifa10.. kits can even be wrong, wrong colours, wrong styles, no keeper kits, no sponsors its a joke...

anyhow.... dont get me wrong i can see fifa progressing, and thats what pes needed to give it the boot up the arse it needed lol... but some of the comments some of the fanboys make on here about either game is a long running battle with no winner..

both games are good in their own way.. but to slag one off to big up the other is just a waste of time..

i hated the new GTA...

 

[marcgiu]

both games are good in their own way.. but to slag one off to big up the other is just a waste of time..

i hated the new GTA...

I agree - its not about slagging the other off (something that I have been guilty of), as consumers we should be pleased that both try to push and out do each other

 

[Ant1975]

I hope so... especially now that fifa got all those glowing reviews... and the final game is riddled with problems.. it just took fifa 10 incarnations... to get it up to speed...

in my opinion fifa is now like a movie version of football, all bells and whistles.. but with no soul... when you watch it play it doesnt look like a real football match... i have bought both fifa and pes for a number of years now but even though pes has declined.. the core fundamentals have always been there... it makes you feel like your playing a proper match.

I've already voiced my opinions on fifa so i won't go over it all again.. but if they have the licences how come in fifa10.. kits can even be wrong, wrong colours, wrong styles, no keeper kits, no sponsors its a joke...

anyhow.... dont get me wrong i can see fifa progressing, and thats what pes needed to give it the boot up the arse it needed lol... but some of the comments some of the fanboys make on here about either game is a long running battle with no winner..

both games are good in their own way.. but to slag one off to big up the other is just a waste of time..

i hated the new GTA...

I think you have some good points mate but i dont agree fifa is movie football. It may be on assisted controls but not on manual. It can be a dam hard game to master at that level.

However yeah, attention to detail is lacking here and there and the manager mode is lacking and buggy. but the core gameplay is certainly top notch in my opinion.

I could forgive Pes a lot if the core gameplay was right, but im a stickler especially for goalies, and i just dont like them in Pes period. they are not a patch on the old goalkeepers, there just doesnt seem to be enough animations for them for certain shots, they never seem to really stretch for high shots. I also think the animation is clunky and stiff, it was never like that on PS2, it felt quite organic at times.

I just dunno.

Where Pes wins over Fifa in my opinion is the bigger graphics and the broadcast camera angle, the pitches are quite nice too, konami have always been able to capture the stadium feel.

But there you go.

 

[Baddar]

For those wondering, I am completely 100% on top of these kind of threads and know they exist.

The people who create them, for the most part, are making good points, even if they are being slightly negative towards PES.

There's no point in shutting down every thread that gets started in the 2010 section, which is why I leave them open for you guys to discuss. If you don't feel like discussing it, leave the thread and don't post. It's that simple. The thread title is normally an indication as to what the thread will include anyway.

And besides, have any of you guys seen the amount of "bitching" threads that get posted on the EA forums? Enough said.

 

[Tommy88]

I can get were your coming from it annoys me some people on this site who blab on like this year pes is awsome and saying oh yeah pes is back lmao, sure its a bit better but nothing major in terms of gameplay.

People were saying the same last year and no doubt when pes11 comes around some of these people will be saying i no the last years was bad but this years is going 2 be wiked.

p.s Il still be buying pes for my for my footy fix though

 

[twisteddeeds]

And besides, have any of you guys seen the amount of "bitching" threads that get posted on the EA forums? Enough said.

yep lol.. some things never change... as long as people can put points across without willy waving i dont mind constructive criticism lol

 

[shaun7]

I can get were your coming from it annoys me some people on this site who blab on like this year pes is awsome and saying oh yeah pes is back lmao, sure its a bit better but nothing major in terms of gameplay.

People were saying the same last year and no doubt when pes11 comes around some of these people will be saying i no the last years was bad but this years is going 2 be wiked.

p.s Il still be buying pes for my for my footy fix though

Some people yes but not everyone. And to answer your question. No pes 10 is not slightly better than pes 09, it's much better. Unlike last year, I keep thinking about the match even after it. That's enough to prove that the game is really enjoyable and I enjoy only realistic games. So pes 10 is realistic. I know it has it's bad side aswell, but the good things in my opinion outweigh the bad ones unlike in pes 09.