Stop the scripted cheating/ momentum shift engine.

[MatTheCat]

The AI 'scripting' in the game has simply got to stop.

Whatever AI 'equations' cause it and for whatever reason, many gamers are finding the PES scripting or bending of gameplay momentum to benefit one team over the other utterly infuriating and a major turn off in playing the game.

At least in 2 player mode, this scripting simply must go. Any hidden interference in the game that the gamer(s) has no control over is a bad thing. It may make the game seem more exciting to those naive enough not to notice/believe that it exists but for vets of the series it nothing more than a groan inducing headache that has persisted for too many iterations of the (same old) game.

 

[MatTheCat]

BUMP!

Never mind all the different goalie gloves or more stadiums. The scripting in ProEv is destroying the game (alongside the pernnial cheap goal AI flaws) for many long suffering 'fans' of the series.

Playing a video game against your mate where the computer just randomly decides whether its going to be your lucky or unlucky date is not acceptable. Its nothing more than a cheap AI trick in order to make the game seem more 'unpredictable' and 'exciting'. Of course, for anyone with half a brain cell it has the exact opposite effect from that.

STOP THE SCRIPTING!

 

[byrnie05]

Hear Hear.

I always go back to PES6 in my comparisons, but that was always exiting, but at least the cheating was on the odd occasion.

Having to play cup finals over and again, because from the off the computer sets its stall out for you not win, is not fair and it is not fun.

I don't mind losing when I don't play well, but losing from kick-off - and you can tell when the game is in its scripting mode - needs to cease.

 

[Kubi_KZ]

This is similar to the "catch up" setting in racing games, where the cars furthest behind all start to run on kryptonite.

At least in most racing games, the players can choose to switch it off.

In PES, it is sold as a part of realistic football simulation.

Cheers

 

[MatTheCat]

This is similar to the "catch up" setting in racing games, where the cars furthest behind all start to run on kryptonite.

At least in most racing games, the players can choose to switch it off.

In PES, it is sold as a part of realistic football simulation.

Cheers

Where it is not similar though is when the AI is in catch up mode right from kick off!

Even worse is when it is doing catch up mode in a two player game.

 

[Dragonfly]

I've found "scripting" more of a problem in FIFA09, to be honest. If the CPU team is in a favourable position (score-line), then no matter the team, everyone is better than Barcelona at keeping possession.

The "scripting" issue in PES isn't really one, for me. The only problem I have is crap goalkeepers; freezing players during free-kicks and through passes; and auto-slide tackle. However, I overcame the latter, but it's so eay to coax the CPU defence into committing a foul. The bloody dummy shot!

They should also change the CPU's response to the human player having ten men in a wall, when a free-kick is being taken near the half-way line. The CPU is stupid and will pass forward, leading to an off-side decision. I've never done it, but I see my brother doing it all the time. It drives me mad.

The worst aspect of the game is the rigidity of the football. I haven't really played the game for about 5 months - the longest I probably haven't played the game since the first ISS.

I probably went a bit off topic with some of the points, but butt!

 

[iamcanadianeh]

I agree with Dragonfly. Not a problem for me. As I've said elsewhere, the greater shame would be if Konami fail to recognize that they are really on the right path with 09. The AI is simply harder IMO, and I have never seen anything I would call cheating. Much better than 08 where I could easily run up the score to 10-0 and the AI would never fight back.

 

[Lugash]

I've found "scripting" more of a problem in FIFA09, to be honest. If the CPU team is in a favourable position (score-line), then no matter the team, everyone is better than Barcelona at keeping possession.

The scripting definitely goes on to a great extent in FIFA, and it annoys me that many of the FIFA players on these boards seem to ignore this. However, it is possibly worse in PES. PES5 and PES6 were challenging without the need to cheat, I don't see why we can't go back to a similar situation. Having said that, the PSM3 article suggests the new defending AI is solid, so that's promising.

 

[MatTheCat]

The AI is simply harder IMO, and I have never seen anything I would call cheating. Much better than 08 where I could easily run up the score to 10-0 and the AI would never fight back.

aw come on come on COME ON!

Yes... PES 09 is much better than 08....but that is because they went and released an unfinished beta cos that is all they had come the release date cos they all spend too much of the preceding months telling themselves 'how they have created a near perfect video soccer engine', instead of working to develop the 'quite good' engine they had on from its PS2 days.

But to say the AI doesn't influence the game by 'cheating' or scripting against you or indeed scripting for you, is just sheer blindness. Actually, given that Seabass has already made numerous comments regarding PES's 'Momentum Engine', its not just blindness, its damn ignorance.

I have a feeling that this record has been played somewhere before but the AI can and does 'bend' the gameplay in the following ways:

Malpositioning your players / positioning your players benifically.....to receive and make good passes or to block good passes.

Impacting first touch ball physics in order........that your team gets the luck of the bounce/ doesn't get the luck of the bounce

Just considering the two above commonplace interferences of the AI on a game which ostensibly should be played between two human opponents (yes, I am referring to two players game here), it is very easy to see how the 'Momentum Engine' cheaply trys to mimic 'exciting football scripts' leaving the human player with no alternative but to lose (or win) gracefully or exploit the flaws in the AI (i.e. play exclusively for cheap goals) I do not believe that the AI cheats by awarding itself dodgy penalties/freekicks...it doesn't have to.

Me n my brother play Champions League tournies on PES where we choose our main team, but play against each others team with whoever the opposition team is (using kitserver to unlock controllers) We are off both equal ability and by now we are very aware of the effect of the scripting on the game, especially with regards to certain teams having certain other 'bogey teams. i.e. AC Milan < Liverpool.

The best example of this was in PES5 where Seabass gave an interview stating he watched Norway beat Brazil once so decided to put this in the game. True enough, If you wanted to give a Brazil noob a run for his money choosing Norway (who on paper were utterly pants) was a very good way to do it. So how did Seabass manage to turn Norway into PES5 Brazil's bogey team? Was it by carefully editing formations/strategies? Was it by carefully pitting certain palyers against other players? No! It was by adding a value into the momentum shift engine to ensure that it was always favouring the Norwegians. In short, by cheating.

 

[dicky_t]

theres only one way to play real pes and thats in exhibition mode ,theres hardly any scripted cheating in there if any

play it in cup mode ,and you may as well say your a masochist for trying to beat a machine and software thats going to rob you ,give offsides against you ,and even gives them goals when there clearly offside ,i thought pes08 was riddiculous for this you win the ball fairly and its a free kick against you

pes09 is not as bad as pes08 for scripted cheating ,but it does have serious issues,ive even got a goal saved against me in champions league mode ,where i needed a win to qualify ,playing as newcastle v barcelona ,saved a shot from iniesta the ball drops at his feet and in between my defender and goal keeper ,but instead of my keeper dropping on the ball both players stand and look at the ball for a full 2 seconds before messi casually walks in between my two players and scores

AT THAT POINT IT IS NOT A GAME!

 

[byrnie05]

I've just attempted to clear a ball with my keeper, held the button to smash it as per usual and he attempts to slide clear it, barely gets contact and leaves the net open for the opposition to score.

This is a pre-season friendly against Celtic and since I won the championship 4 games before the end of the season, the computer has been playing to script. I'm getting sick of it.

 

[MatTheCat]

BUMP BUMP BUMPITY FUCKING BUMP.

The AI scripting must simply stop. It has being going on so long that most of us are no longer fooled and are very very bored by it.

Notwithstanding playing to exploit the AI weaknesses (a la 10 degree improbable Messi tap ins), PES2009 either lets you play the game or simply doesn't. When it does you feel good and enjoy it, when it doesn't its just a frustrating bore where your hands are tied and incapble of doign anythign except getting a cheap goal. When you realise that you only play well when the AI opens up for you the whole thing just feels utterly pointless. I want to play to entertain myself, not to score as many 'money goals' as I possibly can in the most contrived way I possibly can.

The UK Konami guy stated in an interview that ' there is no momentum shift engine'. But we all know that he is either lying or simply doesn't know because he is not involved in the games design. We the gamers know that PES is a scripting contrived sonofabitch and it is becoming very VERY STALE.

 

[S-D-P]

The AI 'scripting' in the game has simply got to stop.

Whatever AI 'equations' cause it and for whatever reason, many gamers are finding the PES scripting or bending of gameplay momentum to benefit one team over the other utterly infuriating and a major turn off in playing the game.

At least in 2 player mode, this scripting simply must go. Any hidden interference in the game that the gamer(s) has no control over is a bad thing. It may make the game seem more exciting to those naive enough not to notice/believe that it exists but for vets of the series it nothing more than a groan inducing headache that has persisted for too many iterations of the (same old) game.

Although i prefer fifa 09 to pes these days the scripting in pes is nowhere near fifa's diabloical standards, its a major flaw when playing on legendary. I think they have scripting in both games to compensate for poor AI. For me pes's main problem with scripting is when it is scripted for you and it becomes to easy to win.