the future of stats.

[ilyasmad]

Obviously one of the major attribute lacking in current football games is the ability or stats to measure the artificial intelligence of a player and their style in a team. My question is how would one actually do that? This would get rid of cards, and the stupid super stat players in elite team kinda mentality. Plus it would form a different set of individuality for a player.

Could somebody please explain what the current teamwork, response, attack and defence exactly do in relation to the active AI? And what new stats should be introduced.

We're already looking at next generation consoles, football games right now in my opinion is lacking in innovation. I would love to have another kind of control and freedom over my team in the future too. The off ball control was a brilliant idea, but somewhat lacking in its potential. What other stuff can we theorize to give more control to the player?

On another note, PES needs to get back the acceleration and agility stats. Have no idea why Konami removed it. The fact that different people had different sort of agility was amazing in PES 2011. In PES 2012 it seems as though all players could glide through players with ease.

I know this is just speculation, but its nice to think what's possible in the future games.

 

[Sabatasso]

What they must do, is to at least get the stats that is fairly easy to pin down to be accurate. Like Top Speed, for example. Why does a player that you know for a fact will outrun most players just have 76 TS in PES?

Because stats are too much influenced by fame and what team the player in question is contracted to.

 

[Pokervriend]

Agree. Nasri has something like 79TS, yet he outruns many defenders. Kaka has 91 TS, yet he struggles to outrun his opponent.

 

[ilyasmad]

@Sabatasso

Kind like Fabregas moving to Barcelona, he recieved such a huge boost.
Though, in some extent, i think it is neccesary. I mean the easiest way to make a stronger team in comparison to a weaker team is too simply boost the players stats to superhuman levels. That's why i tried to suggest a new stat that deals with the movement and the intelligence of the player. The problem is that its quite difficult to implement or even idealise such a stat.

I think top speed refers to the off-ball speed of the player. Dribble speed and explosiveness(stupid stat) mainly contributes to the success of taking on the defender.

 

[abu97]

@Sabatasso

Kind like Fabregas moving to Barcelona, he recieved such a huge boost.
Though, in some extent, i think it is neccesary. I mean the easiest way to make a stronger team in comparison to a weaker team is too simply boost the players stats to superhuman levels. That's why i tried to suggest a new stat that deals with the movement and the intelligence of the player. The problem is that its quite difficult to implement or even idealise such a stat.

I think top speed refers to the off-ball speed of the player. Dribble speed and explosiveness(stupid stat) mainly contributes to the success of taking on the defender.

Top Speed refers to the maximum speed of a player off the ball (chasing it). Dribble Speed is the speed on the ball compared to the top speed - E.g. Messi has 98 dribble speed whilst C.Ronaldo has 97. This doesn't mean Messi is faster than Ronaldo on the ball, it means he has 98 out of 99 speed on the ball with his 82 top speed so all together he's run with the ball at 81 speed wheras Ronaldo who has 97 dribble speed will run at a speed of 88 or 89 with the ball. Anyway, its common sense as it is impossible to run fast with the ball than without as the ball just slightly slows you down.

Thats why some players with high dribble speed feel slow on the ball because they have a low top speed like Iniesta, Robinho, Cassano, Messi etc.

 

[Sabatasso]

@Sabatasso

Kind like Fabregas moving to Barcelona, he recieved such a huge boost.
Though, in some extent, i think it is neccesary. I mean the easiest way to make a stronger team in comparison to a weaker team is too simply boost the players stats to superhuman levels. That's why i tried to suggest a new stat that deals with the movement and the intelligence of the player. The problem is that its quite difficult to implement or even idealise such a stat.

I think top speed refers to the off-ball speed of the player. Dribble speed and explosiveness(stupid stat) mainly contributes to the success of taking on the defender.

The main difference between a good football player and a great football player aren't usually technical skills, but mental skills and simple understanding of football. Quaresma has everything any offensive footy player would want technically and somewhat physically, but he lacks greatly tactically and mentally and that's why he falls through. PES needs to put much more focus into these things in my opinion.

KONAMI needs to divide Defense into "Marking", "Tackling" and "Defensive Positioning", and Attack should only determine how good a player is to escape a marker.

Some stats that are affecting players awkwardly when really low, such as Passing Speed and Shot Power should be completely reworked. If you look at how PES is right now, no player should be below 80 shot power, or possibly higher. If they changed the difference between 50 and 99 to be much more subtle, it would be much better than what it is now. Players with 70-75 shot power are hardly able to shoot the ball from the edge of the box without the ball bouncing twice before reaching the keeper, or alternatively look like a failed lob.

Teamwork should decide how good a player is to find good passing alternatives other than the obvious. The accuracy skills should only affect how accurate the passes are, nothing else. And there needs to be more inaccurate passes in this game, also for the AI. This ability would be more or less obsolete when human controlled, as the human is the "creative factor" when it comes to finding openings. But it will affect modes like BAL greatly, both AI opponents and AI teammates. And it would also be a main contributor to making it harder to play against Barcelona, and easier to play against Rosenborg.

Response should determine how quickly the AI player reacts to opponents moves, and loose balls. For the Human player, this ability should be disabled so the actual human's reaction can be used.

There also needs to be less AI controlled movement on the player that the human controls, noticeable in BAL for example, where your player suddenly runs off to chase a ball you never even thought about chasing for several good reasons.


PS: These are only on the fly suggestions, although I've given it much thought previously, but this is just a rough sketch. There are probably even better suggestions, but you get my picture at least.

 

[gunnerglow]

Dont agree with ^^^

Top speed = How quickly a player reaches maximum speed - so basically it should be called acceleration.

Dribble speed = How quickly a player dribbles with the ball


So by Konami own definition, no stat in 2012 represents how fast a player can run without the ball. This is how the stats appear when you read them in game.

 

[abu97]

Dont agree with ^^^

Top speed = How quickly a player reaches maximum speed - so basically it should be called acceleration.

Dribble speed = How quickly a player dribbles with the ball


So by Konami own definition, no stat in 2012 represents how fast a player can run without the ball. This is how the stats appear when you read them in game.

That is definitely wrong

Top Speed - maximum speed a player can reach regardless of time

Dribble Speed - How quickly a player dribbles with the ball in comparison to top speed

 

[gunnerglow]

That is definitely wrong

Top Speed - maximum speed a player can reach regardless of time

Dribble Speed - How quickly a player dribbles with the ball in comparison to top speed

im only stating what the stats actually say when you go into search or edit - did they get the translations wrong?

 

[abu97]

im only stating what the stats actually say when you go into search or edit - did they get the translations wrong?

I'll check if thats true then

 

[lexandro]

im only stating what the stats actually say when you go into search or edit - did they get the translations wrong?

Konami make a habit of having incorrect or mislabled stats. IIRC 2010 had two stats with the same discription when hovered over. So you can never trust what it says in the menu 100% of the time.

What Konami should do is just use the FIFA official player statistics. That is rating system coaches/teams across europe use when rating a player. In most cases they are confidential but they have been shown in the past. Even if the stats are not exact they actual types of stats should be used.

 

[abu97]

Konami make a habit of having incorrect or mislabled stats. IIRC 2010 had two stats with the same discription when hovered over. So you can never trust what it says in the menu 100% of the time.

What Konami should do is just use the FIFA official player statistics. That is rating system coaches/teams across europe use when rating a player. In most cases they are confidential but they have been shown in the past. Even if the stats are not exact they actual types of stats should be used.

They should also do that system they use in FIFA where players improve every weak depending on their matches played

 

[Sabatasso]

Dont agree with ^^^

Top speed = How quickly a player reaches maximum speed - so basically it should be called acceleration.

Dribble speed = How quickly a player dribbles with the ball


So by Konami own definition, no stat in 2012 represents how fast a player can run without the ball. This is how the stats appear when you read them in game.

Close, but no cigar.

Top Speed = max achievable pace
Dribble Speed = % of Top Speed the player is able to maintain while running with the ball. Not entirely sure it's actually percentage, but it's very similar. So the formula is at least theoretically correct, but the values may differ.

Example:
Player 1
Top Speed 75
Dribble Speed 80
Equals 75*0.8= 60

Effective speed when dribbling will then be 60.

Player 2
Top Speed 80
Dribble Speed 75
Equals 80*0.75= 60

Effective speed when dribbling will then be 60.

Player 2 would be the better choice, because he is faster without the ball.

Note that the formula aren't proven correct. It's just a way of showing how the skills work. Otherwise some people would be faster when running with the ball than without, and we all know that is physically impossible. So either way you think about it, effective Dribble Speed has to be something lower than your Top Speed. And many players have higher Dribble Speed stat than Top Speed stat, like Messi.

But if the formula is correct, and it is quite likely, a player with 95 in both would run an effective speed of 90 with the ball. (95*0.95= 90.25)

Explosive Power seems to affect both acceleration and agility, may also be affected by Response like earlier versions. Hard to say, really, because Konami are complete retards when it comes to explanations and quite frankly English in general.

What the hell is "Place Kicking" supposed to mean? I know it's Free kick Accuracy they're trying to say, but wouldn't simply "FK Accuracy" suffice?
"Place kicking" sounds like something kids do. "We're kicking it at the place." "you know... the mall."