Too easy to hold possession

[Stormrider]

Playing the demo on top player using Bayern against Barca, I have no trouble keeping 60% possession every match. I'm not only using short passes either, I'm varying my passes with long balls, through balls, lofted through balls. You name it I'll try it but still I end up with 60% every time against the team that in reality would hold 70-80% possession against the best teams in the world. This means tactically the game is not quite there yet. Barca should be very hard to play against. A match where you have to carefully setup your tactics to stop their gameplan or they'll severely punish you. A match where you'll only touch the ball 20-30% of the time.

Don't tell me that this means once the full game is out, Stoke will be able to play magical 1 touch football and hold 60% like last year :no:. At the very least, the top 10 teams should consistently keep their playing styles instead of showing it in 10 second spurts like Barca does in Pes 2011.

 

[Mullet Taylor]

bayern are a very good attacking side though. the likes of bommel, ribery, robben, Schweinsteiger know how to make a pass

 

[Stormrider]

No doubt about it but nobody holds 60% against Barca. A side can consider themselves lucky if they can do 40%.

 

[FreaK367]

I'd say that depends on the player rather than the game mechanics, if I decided I wanted to have more possession at the end of a game as one of my targets, I could alter my tactics and risk factor to keep the ball all of the time.

You could just be better than you think at picking out passes and using the new Engine already, especially if you're playing on Top Player, they close you down faster. Obviously players have the ability to shield the ball from the other team, usually in football when you lose possession it is through a Risky pass or Mistake, most direct tackles are anticipated beforehand and passed away before they get the chance.

 

[Stormrider]

Yea and no matter how good I am at picking passes in Pes 2010, when I come up against Stoke City they'll hold 60% against me and string together amazing 1 touch triangles. Basically they'll play just like Barca do in reality, whereas Barca plays nothing like they're supposed to.

It's probably asking way too much to have every single team play exactly like how they do in the real world, but at the very least Konami shouldn't neglect the top 10 teams. If anyone remembers playing Pes 3-5, you won't get an easy ride on 6 star difficulty against the top teams. It's usually 50/50% possession or they'll have more than you. That's how it should be. The PS3/Xbox versions make it too easy to keep the ball, causing the big game fixtures to usually be lackluster experiences.

 

[lyc10]

i agree, its a bit too easy to keep possesion, but it seems like top player defends really well, once you go forward

 

[Zorac1979]

In most earlier PES games, especially 2010 I would have less possession than the teams I was playing in ML, even when I had built my team up to a formidable side, it was more of a case of what I did with the ball when I had it. If I played a lesser team like Stoke as you mentioned I may have a little more than 50% but it was rare and still banging 4 or 5 goals past them.

PES 2011 is a lot different, like you if I play as Barca or Bayern I usually have over 60% possession although a lot of that time is spent passing the ball about looking for gaps to exploit rather than knocking a string of 4-5 defence splitting passes together before blasting one in the back of the net as soon as I win the ball.

Although on some levels I think your right. If you are playing against Barca with 95% of teams in the world, you'd expect them to be the ones passing it about looking for gaps and us mere mortals hoping to get an interception and hit them on the break.

 

[FreaK367]

Remember to bare in mind that Humans are more intelligent than game AI, there's only so much artificial intelligence can do without making something increadibly unfair, once you become good at a game you'll always out do the computer.

I guess you could say an improvement in PES2011 is the ability to keep possession.., which is more realistic, by saying using a Bad team against a Good team controlled by the computer, should mean the Good team should have more possession, is like saying your ability as a gamer automatically lowers with the team you are using. Which is not true, if you're good at a game, you will be able to keep more or less the same possession against say Barcalona whether you use Stoke or Inter Milan, for example. You automatically make different decisions based on your team ability.

In real life, football players do keep possession alot when on the ball (at a high level), they are considered to have made some sort of mistake if they get tackled while just running, unless they are actively trying to burst through the defense.. Usually possession changes hands when someone either makes a bad pass or misses a shot, so PES2011 is doing an alright job in my opinion.

Other than that though, the entire game needs considerable improvements in almost every department.

 

[Stormrider]

Freak, I don't mind if they make it just a bit unfair going against Barca cuz I understand that AI is still not at that level yet, but remember it's only 1 team. During a season you'll only meet them twice, maybe more in the CL, and in those encounters no team should dream of outclassing Barca. We'd have to go into the match with a different setup, like what Inter and Rubin Kazan did in the CL. Setup a solid defense, mark the shit out of Messi, and try to hit them on the counter and hope to get a bit of luck on our side and make the most of the little possession we'd get. Also remember that Barca is not all about passing and holding the ball cuz when they don't have possession their organization and work rate is fantastic so they'll force the best of teams into making mistakes and giving the ball back.

With every Pes on the PS3, including 2011, I just don't get this fear when I meet Barca. I don't need to change any tactics. I can just use the same attacking formation as them and totally outclass them and dominate the match. Not very Barca like at all and it's a big turnoff for me. I remember in Pes 4 and 5 I would be shaking in my boots every time I go up against Inter Milan or Barca on 6 star difficulty. Those matches required a lot of prematch tinkering and concentration throughout the match and I'd feel like I accomplished a great feat if I walked away with a draw if they were at full strength. Yes there was some scripting involved at the time but it definitely wasn't impossible. I just want that feeling again and I know Konami are capable of providing it.

 

[FreaK367]

Well, what Barcalona bring is the ability in their players, if you looked at a low down of their players ability in PES2011, all of them should be over 80, and I can imagine most of their first team could be over 90, so when they make chances they are more likely to score, if playing them feels the same as playing an average team, chances are if both teams are given the same opportunity infront of goal, Messi or Villa will have a much better chance at scoring than others.

If it stays the same, you'll learn to fear the ability of the players instead of the teams, Barcalona have scored some very nice goals against me, some being very Messi-like.

Hopefully though this Demo is just an example of the game progress, rather than an example of the final product, otherwise Fifa 11 will completely destroy PES2011 when they are both released.

 

[Amateur]

Playing the demo on top player using Bayern against Barca, I have no trouble keeping 60% possession every match. I'm not only using short passes either, I'm varying my passes with long balls, through balls, lofted through balls. You name it I'll try it but still I end up with 60% every time against the team that in reality would hold 70-80% possession against the best teams in the world. This means tactically the game is not quite there yet. Barca should be very hard to play against. A match where you have to carefully setup your tactics to stop their gameplan or they'll severely punish you. A match where you'll only touch the ball 20-30% of the time.

Don't tell me that this means once the full game is out, Stoke will be able to play magical 1 touch football and hold 60% like last year :no:. At the very least, the top 10 teams should consistently keep their playing styles instead of showing it in 10 second spurts like Barca does in Pes 2011.

I agree, good comments, the same problem with PES10 and PES5 and PES6 and FIFA10.

This has been a problem for as far as I can remember, it cannot be fixed... under the current concept it is impossible, as it would actually take away a lot of freedom.

Under the current outdated concept, you either have limited freedom and make it a bit harder to play against Barcelona, or you have more freedom but with West Ham playing like Barcelona; because the game does not have a solid structure, nor solid substance, it is not defined by any ground rules.

Possession Football is easy because it is automatic and scripted, with PES11 you have control over your passes... but you do not have control over what you want to do, how you will start the play, etc, etc.

The COMPUTER does not asks you: "how do you want to start the next attack? Your wish is my command"

That does not happens, instead, the COMPUTER pulls all the strings for you, places all the little dots in certain places, and you just pass the ball to the little dot: basically, we abide the dictatorship of the COM. PES and FIFA are not dictated by USER miscalculations, PES and FIFA are dictated by the COM.

And the COM is not programed in a way where you can choose what type of music you want to hear; the COM is programmed or coded in a way where it plays whatever the fuck it wants to play.

When you mix this flawed attacking system with the flawed defensive system, you have a game that is automatic and scripted and broken; a game where you can do impossible things without ever utilizing your brain, because utilizing your brain is surplus in PES and FIFA... It is not designed to make you think and create, it is designed to tell you what to do and how to react, to react but never really think about how you want to react, just react and do things without utilizing your brain.

If you think... you loose... PES and FIFA are not for thinkers, it's just instant gratification with absolutely no substance at its core; entertaining when you want to turn your brain off, but boring when you want something that provides you with a challenge.

And thus, you can hold possession very easily, because it's automatic... PES11 did not fixed the flaw... you can still pass the ball between CBs and DMFs very easily.

With PES11, Konami replaced the old uni-polar passing system with a bi-polar passing system where you need accuracy in terms of direction and accuracy in terms of power; however, the GAMEPLAY CONCEPT remains a uni-polar concept...

Adding more directions to a FLAWED CONCEPT will not rectify or fix the flaw, it may hide the flaw a little bit better but the flaw is still there; as can be appreciated with FIFA09 and FIFA10 and PES11 and FIFA11.

Konami needs to change how the left analogue stick works, the one-versus-one system needs to change... because the current one-versus-one system is broken and has always been broken and will always be broken in some way or the other.

Both Konami and EA Sports, have yet to come up with a proper one-versus-one system, the current formula revolves around running... When you replace the old uni-polar passing system with a bi-polar system in which you need to have accuracy in terms of directions and accuracy in terms of power; and yet, you continue using a flawed and outdated dribbling and man-marking system...

The flaw where you have teams like West Ham playing one-touch football and keeping 60% of possession against a team like Barcelona, is one of the many flaws that the game will have.

People will find out after playing PES11 for about 3 months or so, that despite all the massive improvements in some areas of the game; the one-versus-one element of the game remains very much the same but with more directions and more fluidity, the left analogue stick still works identically but with more directions to run into.

Adding more directions to a FLAWED CONCEPT will not rectify or fix the flaw, it may hide the flaw a little bit better but the flaw is still there; as can be appreciated with FIFA09 and FIFA10.

What we as fans need to realize is... that this cannot be fixed... because this is a fundamental flaw that has always been there. It can only be fixed by replacing the uni-polar left analogue stick concept with a bi-polar left analogue stick concept, and also, by replacing the defensive concept with one that isn't completely useless.

 

[Sabatasso]

Don't tell me that this means once the full game is out, Stoke will be able to play magical 1 touch football and hold 60% like last year :no:. At the very least, the top 10 teams should consistently keep their playing styles instead of showing it in 10 second spurts like Barca does in Pes 2011.

While I don't really disagree with you, I think you're being a bit too harsh. For critique to be constructive, it must be encouraging at the same time. You could at least spend a second to mention a few things you actually liked about the game while you where at it, or else it just seem like good old whining to me.
In my opinion KONAMI has made an enourmous progress over the other PES games in PES2011, judging from the demo.

Making teams act more and less agressive and keeping possession is something I have tweaked myself in the other versions so I am not really concerned about that at all.

What we as fans need to realize is... that this cannot be fixed... because this is a fundamental flaw that has always been there. It can only be fixed by replacing the uni-polar left analogue stick concept with a bi-polar left analogue stick concept, and also, by replacing the defensive concept with one that isn't completely useless.

While some of your points may be valid, you're just too negative. One thing I wonder about though, you seem to identify yourself as a "fan" but at the same time you're saying this game is a package of flawed garbage.
I think that says more about you than PES, really.


Well done KONAMI, I am surprisingly impressed and I am very much looking forward to try out the new BAL mode. You can certainly say that I did not expect much of an improvement over PES2010, and I am glad to be proved wrong (for once? ). This is way better than expected in almost every aspect of the game. Keep up the good work and progress, we'll might have a really, REALLY great footy game on our hands in a few years time.

Thank you

 

[Stormrider]

While I don't really disagree with you, I think you're being a bit too harsh. For critique to be constructive, it must be encouraging at the same time. You could at least spend a second to mention a few things you actually liked about the game while you where at it, or else it just seem like good old whining to me.
In my opinion KONAMI has made an enourmous progress over the other PES games in PES2011, judging from the demo.

Making teams act more and less agressive and keeping possession is something I have tweaked myself in the other versions so I am not really concerned about that at all.

This is not a review of the game so I have no idea why you think I needed to mention what I did like or bring up other areas of the game other than what was mentioned in the thread title :erm:. It is just feedback on 1 specific area of gameplay which hopefully could be remedied in the future with a patch.

With that being said, I never said I hated the game. I enjoy it very much. It's a big improvement in every department over Pes 2010 but this 1 area has actually gone downhill after Pes 5 and has seen absolutely no improvement each year on the PS3. Once the full game is out and this area remains the same, I'll still enjoy the game except for every fixture against a big side because if it's anything like last year, it doesn't make too much of a difference whether I'm up against West Ham or Barca, except Barca has a couple of good finishers. It's a shame really.

 

[Amateur]

While I don't really disagree with you, I think you're being a bit too harsh. For critique to be constructive, it must be encouraging at the same time. You could at least spend a second to mention a few things you actually liked about the game while you where at it, or else it just seem like good old whining to me.
In my opinion KONAMI has made an enourmous progress over the other PES games in PES2011, judging from the demo.

Making teams act more and less agressive and keeping possession is something I have tweaked myself in the other versions so I am not really concerned about that at all.



While some of your points may be valid, you're just too negative. One thing I wonder about though, you seem to identify yourself as a "fan" but at the same time you're saying this game is a package of flawed garbage.
I think that says more about you than PES, really.


Well done KONAMI, I am surprisingly impressed and I am very much looking forward to try out the new BAL mode. You can certainly say that I did not expect much of an improvement over PES2010, and I am glad to be proved wrong (for once? ). This is way better than expected in almost every aspect of the game. Keep up the good work and progress, we'll might have a really, REALLY great footy game on our hands in a few years time.

Thank you

You should take a look at yourself before judging others, seems to me like you are very interested in your opinion.

Before mentioning the term "constructive criticism", did you ever bothered reading the CONSTRUCTIVE parts of my argument?

The parts where I said that, the uni-polar left analogue stick concept should be replaced with a bi-polar left analogue stick concept?

Is that not constructive enough for you? I am mentioning the flaw and also the solution. I am a fan of the series, but when you see the same flaw for 15 years... is it really harsh to criticize a flaw that has been there for 15 YEARS?

I don't think I am harsh and I don't think I am negative; on the contrary, I am progressive, I am realistic, I am positive...

Do you know what is the CHAIN that keeps humanity from PROGRESSING? Conformity... conformity is the booze that they feed us in order to keep us sedated.

On a much smaller and less serious scale, it is the very same thing with PES, you are satisfied with what you have, you do not dare to discuss and talk about a flaw that has been there for 15 years...

In my opinion, you are not a real fan of the series; you talk about "constructive criticism" and you cannot even recognize the difference between constructive criticism and a good old fashioned thrashing.

If you never bother talking about a flaw that has been there for 15 years, you can expect to see that very same flaw for the next 10 years.

And the people who say that this has gone downhill since PES5: have little idea about the reason for why the flaw exists, why it has not improved, and how the flaw can be fixed.

They criticize the game and yet they don't fully understand why the flaw is there, and they will just go and say -- "this has gone downhill since PES5" -- this is not constructive criticism, because the person whom is criticizing the flaw does not know how it can be fixed.

The only constructive thing about it, is that it lets me know that the person whom is criticizing the flaw wants a better game... and yet, does not fully understand why his argument is redundant.

So, it is constructive in a way... because it lets you know that people can see the flaw, but that a lot of the people who criticize the flaw do not fully understand why the flaw is there in the 1st place.

As for you, my psychoanalytic foe,

If you think constructive criticism is negative, then I will judge you like you judged myself: I think it says a lot about you as a GAMER and CONSUMER, it makes you look like a fan-boy who shies away from healthy debate and constructive criticism...

A fan-boy whom is too ignorant to recognize the difference between business and personal; if I didn't knew any better, I would say that you are a PERSON whom is afraid of constructive criticism, a sheep.

It is just feedback on 1 specific area of gameplay which hopefully could be remedied in the future with a patch. With that being said, I never said I hated the game. I enjoy it very much. It's a big improvement in every department over Pes 2010 but this 1 area has actually gone downhill after Pes 5 and has seen absolutely no improvement each year on the PS3.

I agree with what you said in your first post, because it was general and vague, but now that you have elaborated on your opinion... I fully disagree with your argument.

I find your argument very subjective and redundant, even disrespectful and condescending, because the flaw was already there in PES5... I don't like how you fitted the word "actually" when you are talking about a SUBJECTIVE thing, your opinion.... far from fact, far from objective, far from the truth.

You say this area was not that bad in PES5? I say it was as bad or perhaps even worst in PES5.

This is a fundamental flaw that has always been there, it has not been fixed in 15 years, it cannot be fixed with a patch...

Adding more directions to a FLAWED CONCEPT will not rectify or fix the flaw, it may hide the flaw a little bit better but the flaw is still there; as can be appreciated with FIFA09 and FIFA10.

I think you are criticizing a core flaw, and this one area needs the most improvement from now on, but I think you are more interested on just criticizing the flaw... instead of actually understanding why the flaw exists, and what would be necessary in order to fix this 15 year old flaw.

 

[Sabatasso]

You should take a look at yourself before judging others, seems to me like you are very interested in your opinion.

Before mentioning the term "constructive criticism", did you ever bothered reading the CONSTRUCTIVE parts of my argument?

The parts where I said that, the uni-polar left analogue stick concept should be replaced with a bi-polar left analogue stick concept?

Yes I did, and you missed my point. I did not say that the content of your post wasn't intelligent, or "right" or however you want to put it. But for something to be constructive it has to be interpreted as "constructive" by the target group which is "KONAMI", this being a KONAMI feedback zone and all.

Research will back up what I say now, but I don't think you would need such proof after you've read and comprehended what I am about to say.

Criticism works best when the target is in a good mood. In order to achieve that, say something positive about the subject you're about to criticize constructively. As a matter of fact, you can pretty much tell a person he's a complete asshole if you wrap it in the right package.

I did read your post, and you talked about a lot of technical stuff I don't really have a clue about, but the general "mood" of that post is "I know better than you, KONAMI, so just do it my way and everything will be better".
It may well be that you are completely right, but the general human being does not like to be belittled and told how to do their jobs better.

I am currently studying at the university, in my curriculum I am amongst other subjects studying how to motivate people, and how to constructively criticize them to improve their performance. I was simply sharing some of the things I've learned here for free, like you did.

But if you are not open for constructive criticism, how can you expect KONAMI to be?

Have a nice day.

 

[Amateur]

Yes I did, and you missed my point. I did not say that the content of your post wasn't intelligent, or "right" or however you want to put it. But for something to be constructive it has to be interpreted as "constructive" by the target group which is "KONAMI", this being a KONAMI feedback zone and all.

Research will back up what I say now, but I don't think you would need such proof after you've read and comprehended what I am about to say.

Criticism works best when the target is in a good mood. In order to achieve that, say something positive about the subject you're about to criticize constructively. As a matter of fact, you can pretty much tell a person he's a complete asshole if you wrap it in the right package.

I did read your post, and you talked about a lot of technical stuff I don't really have a clue about, but the general "mood" of that post is "I know better than you, KONAMI, so just do it my way and everything will be better".
It may well be that you are completely right, but the general human being does not like to be belittled and told how to do their jobs better.

I am currently studying at the university, in my curriculum I am amongst other subjects studying how to motivate people, and how to constructively criticize them to improve their performance. I was simply sharing some of the things I've learned here for free, like you did.

But if you are not open for constructive criticism, how can you expect KONAMI to be?

Have a nice day.

I suggest you read your post once again, you were not constructive in any way; and about constructive criticism you don't seem to know much... as you have not talked about anything relevant regarding PES, you have not encouraged constructive criticsm, and now you are lecturing me about how I should communicate with Konami.

I think Konami might feel motivated if they read what I had to say in a thread that reads, "too easy to hold possession"

PES exists because I buy it, I know that over 150 grown-up people work on PES on a yearly basis.... I do not think I know better than Konami, I believe Konami knows what I know well before I knew it.

And as for you, I know I know better than you and Stormrider, and I'm not boasting about it nor am I hiding it... I just know it to be true... because I have read what Stormrider had to say and also what you had to say, and honestly, it's just redundant and obvious.

I have not criticized any specific area of PES11 because I have not played the finished version of PES11; however, I do know the core flaw will be the same because PES11 is based on PES10, and therefore, PES11 is based on the same old uni-polar concept and thus will have the same old flaws.

Konami knows how the game can be fixed, but why go through all that trouble when your fans will happily pay you $50 for an outdated product?

Hey, the Government has a lot of green technology but they have not gone public about it... They make us believe that they have not found solutions, when the truth is, that they have many solutions and alternatives keept underground.

You know why?

Because the Government will make BILLIONS with OIL, and OIL has not run out yet, and the less OIL there is, the more money they will make... and after they have squeezed every drop of OIL there is, then they will release their green technology and everyone will NEED to buy their product.

Konami is a business, PES has been in business for over 15 years, they know how the game can improve, they know why the flaw is there, and if they bothered reading what I have said in this thread, they would agree with it.

The thing is that I am not underestimating Konami, if anything, I am over-estimating Konami... in other words, it is YOU whom is underestimating Konami,

And in doing so, you are telling me to treat KONAMI as if KONAMI was an impressionable 15 year old kid who needs motivation in order to swallow something that he might not want to hear... but KONAMI is not your buddy, KONAMI is a COMPANY, PES is a FRANCHISE; why should I be bland with constructive criticism?

Constructive criticism is not meant to be bland, it is meant to be objective and relevant, and thus, respectful. Do you know why you don't have a clue about my technical stuff??

You might take my tone as blunt or not adequate; however, if I was a member of the PES team, and I read what you had to say about my product... I would be happy because it means that you have no idea about how the game should improve, and thus, you will be satisfied if PES12 is just a very small tweak on PES11; but also, I would be disappointed, because it shows that people do not really appreciate your product enough to know why certain things have not improved.

And I remind you, that this thread is not a thread for POSITIVE things, it clearly reads: "too easy to old possession"

If you want to praise Konami for their work, you can go to the countless of threads that exist for that very purpose; you do not see myself going to a thread called "PES11 positives" to talk about the negatives do you?

In my opinion, you underestimate me and you also underestimate Konami, and you do not understand constructive criticsm very well. What you consider "constructive criticism" will never be objective if we don't have a mutual respect and mutual understanding.

You said that you don't understand my technical stuff... and if you don't have a clue about my argument, how the hell can you question it? how the hell can you even give me suggestions when you don't have a clue about the argument?

Because rather than trying to understand something that you currently don't understand, you prefer to criticize it, you don't want to know WHY you do not understand my "technical" argument.... No, no, you don't want to communicate with me, you just want to lecture me about how you think constructive criticism should work... Never mind the fact that you have no clue about the actual subject.

I don't care about your choice of words, if you question my argument without understanding my argument... I take that as an insult.

Without constructive criticsm it's difficult to progress... Unfortunately, the critics and politics of the world underestimate the masses, and School teaches the masses how to submit and obey in the most efficient way; and this is why 20% of the world population consumes 80% of the existing natural resources, because questioning the established system is obscene.

It is obscene to go to the White House and say, "why the fuck is the US in Iraq, and how come you have not captured Osama bin Laden and yet you did captured Saddam Hussein?" -- that's constructive criticism, that's healthy -- but the world is not controlled by people who tolerate constructive criticsm.

And thus, questioning the established concept is obscene, but 300,000 American Citizens dying in Iraq because the Wall Street guys wanted to make more money than they already have, is not obscene.

I know this is PES, it's only a video game, but I'm just saying that, in my opinion, in this particular circumstance, your constructive criticism is redundant... because you underestimate both Konami and the Consumers who fund PES, and because you do not actually understand the subject, which makes your constructive criticsm redundant as far as I'm concerned; no disrespect intended.

 

[Sabatasso]

LONG POST

Okay, you "win". Too long to even bother reading, you lost me at "government".

 

[Stormrider]

Okay, you "win". Too long to even bother reading, you lost me at "government".

hahaha I love the way you quoted that. I gave up on the part where he mentioned my name for no fuckin reason at all lol and then even added how he knows that he knows more than us, but if you ask him he'll say he's not arrogant at all and will actually call us arrogant lol. Typical of him really. Completely agree on your previous post on how he always posts as if his views came from the mouth of God Almighty himself and anyone who dares to slightly disagree with him would be considered a sinner.

Getting back on topic, I'm hoping maybe this area is already improved upon in the final game. It just seriously hits 1 of my nerves when I see Barcelona holding only 40%.

 

[Amateur]

hahaha I love the way you quoted that. I gave up on the part where he mentioned my name for no fuckin reason at all lol and then even added how he knows that he knows more than us, but if you ask him he'll say he's not arrogant at all and will actually call us arrogant lol. Typical of him really. Completely agree on your previous post on how he always posts as if his views came from the mouth of God Almighty himself and anyone who dares to slightly disagree with him would be considered a sinner.

Getting back on topic, I'm hoping maybe this area is already improved upon in the final game. It just seriously hits 1 of my nerves when I see Barcelona holding only 40%.

At least I have the courtesy of responding to people when people attempt to communicate with me, I respond back.

Someone who says "this one area has actually gone downhill after PES5" should not be taken seriously.... That is why I mentioned your user-name in one post, because you have no idea about why the actual flaw exists, you are under the delusion that PES5 was actually better in that respect...

I respect your opinion for what it is, and I have responded respectfully... by saying that it is your opinion, far from fact, far from the truth. I know why that is, and I know how it can improve... I do not mean to boast about it, just giving my two cents on your weak argument/opinion.

It's funny how you slip the word "actually" to your opinion. I guess that if I think that PES10 is better than PES5, I guess that I am "actually" wrong? right?

You should relax and forget your fucking ego, everything you say when you want to be mean, calling people arrogant, it's just embarrassing... makes you look like a child who cannot argue like an adult, with respect and maturity.

If you want a great example of arrogance, you should take a look at yourself. You are hoping that this area is "improved" because it "actually went downhill after PES5" -- yeah... forgive me for my arrogance, for I do not agree with your redundant argument.

Okay, you "win". Too long to even bother reading, you lost me at "government".

Dude, you are in no position to talk about "too long to even bother" when you posted that loead of bullshit about your studies on constructive criticism...

As if I give a shit about you? I don't give a shit about whatever it is that you study, yet I had the courtesy of reading through all your BS and I also responded.

Now, you cannot even bother reading my response and responding to it.... Like I said, you underestimate me and you did not wanted to communicate with me, you just wanted to lecture me about how constructive criticism should work according to you.

In case you did not noticed... You are talking about YOU, YOU, YOU, in a PES Forum... And then, after a respond to an off/topic comment, you feel like you are above me and thus you will not even bother reading my response and responding to it.

Like I said, constructive criticism... you cannot really lecture me about it when you do not respect my argument nor understand my argument.

Of course I "win" -- how the fuck can you expect to "win" when you come to a thread titled "TOO EASY TO HOLD POSSESSION" and you do not talk about the damn game nor about the actual subject, instead, you start talking about how I am too "harsh" and you start lecturing me about YOUR studies in constructive criticism.... in a thread titled "TOO EASY TO HOLD POSSESSION"

You are a fucking hypocrite,

 

[fick]

I think we've read enough of this now.

This area has more strict controls for content & I suggest Stormrider, Sabatasso & Amateur read them...