Why Do Konami Use "Scripting"???

[wilsybill]

OK I'm not the most technically minded of people so I apologise if this sounds a bit thick. We all know that more often than not the CPU appears to cheat OR their players become super-human until they have scored etc. We have all been putting up with this since PES6. For me it was quite subtle in PES6. PES 2008 was horendous and was taken back to the shop. PES 2009 is a far better game than 2008, but the cheating and CPU getting the upper hand is still far too obvious.

Some people on these boards say that Konami write/script these little CPU advantages into the game. Why? Everyone I have ever read on hear hates it. No one has ever said "Hey that's a good element of the game" - So why do they put it in??? Surely if they want to test people then they should include perhaps one or two higher skill levels. Perhaps they could also introduce a speed bar so the user can increase/decrease the play as they please.

I really don't mind losing if the opposition have played well and deserved it OR I've had an off day. But when you lose or draw games that you really should win because of CPU cheating, it becomes a nightmare. I really enjoy playing all PES titles (apart from 2008). However 2009, whilst enjoyable 80% of the time - still leaves me frustrated and angry 20% of the time. Certainly not what you want when you sit down to have a relaxing game of PES.

Anyone know why the cheating/scripting is in there? Or why it is not a lot more subtle? What's the point of playing a match you know no matter what you do or how well you play, you won't win........?

 

[OptimusPrime]

It's in there because otherwise you'd win every damn time and you'd find out that actually we have been playing a crappy game that's lucky to have a good gameplay feel. The thing is we have been putting up with the "good gameplay" feeling for two years in a row with pes 6 and pes 2008 BUT are getting fed up with it in 2009.

We have become more critical of the game because we realized that there's no progression whatsoever. The only good thing to come this year is BAL, but it was also KONAMI's curse because it exposed their flaws.

In ML you can control 11 players so the cheating of the AI can be countered much better and isn't that obvious. With BAL however this isn't the case because you only control 1 player and the rest is totally up to the AI. And that's where it fails because BLATANTLY it favours itself in most cases.

But like i said before this and stuff like altered controlling are necessary because we wouldn't have any competition....and it's more important for them to sell.

 

[muzza798]

i think if you did the combo of exteemly difficult AI and no scripting there'd be a winner there

 

[CapnKill]

Its like "Auto Catchup" in racing games

But really I think the AI "cheating" comes into play after you score a goal. The PES guide suggests setting a strategy for those scenarios where you shift to a very defensive counter attack based formation.. .like a 5-4-1 for example at least for a small duration when the AI is trying its hardest to get the goal back..

 

[shaun7]

I don't like the scripting. The AI can still play extremley hard but without scripting and cheating. But overall, Pes 09 is a really great game.

 

[byondthought]

Computers will be computer.. i hate it when it comes into play when you play humans, its so obvious...

Its Konami's stupid lazy attempt to write algorithms for footballs unpredictablilty only for it to become completely predictable...Konami in a nut shell

 

[shaun7]

Sometimes even when I play 2 player matches, (1vs1),it's like that some teams like Inter and Man utd will be destined to win no matter what the other player does. Though this happened more in 09. But it's still present in 09.

 

[byondthought]

Sometimes even when I play 2 player matches, (1vs1),it's like that some teams like Inter and Man utd will be destined to win no matter what the other player does. Though this happened more in 09. But it's still present in 09.

yeah sometimes it works ok, like when you are destroying somone but they hang on, defend well and you just cant score, then they get one or two chances and finish them, this does happen alot in the beautiful game.

you can feel the script but its more realistic

unfortunately it is only a computer and cheating real life is its game..!

there is a skelenton key to winning..but i prefer great close games..

 

[alonCFC]

you know, it does reflect, somehow, real life. in real games when a team is down by a reasonable amount of goals, they play better and are more hungry to win. the only thing that annoys me is the last minute corners... goes in every time...

 

[shaun7]

^True. But it seems that some teams are amlost unbeatable.

 

[Amateur]

I don't like the fact that star-studded teams are always great. It would be cool to have some New Concept about Team Chemistry, or something similar. I'd be cool, because a smaller team with good chemistry would have a credible chance against a big club with a not-so-good chemistry.

I think that "Scripting" could play an important part of such a concept. Maybe if Konami implemented an in-game Confidence Level Gauge for each player -if- the player is having a poor game, his confidence level would be low, and consequently his Stats/Attributes would go down.

Or if he's having an exceptional performance, his Stats would go up. This would be realistic as you can see that at times, some players can do just about anything.. and there are other times when they become invisible.

It would be cool if the "Scripting" or "Shifts in Momentum" where dictated by Unbiased Stats, a confidence level gauge, and whatever happens on the pitch.

 

[dan80]

i also dont mind losing if they deserve to win i mean ive had games where ive had about 10 shots on target and the keepers saves them all and then they just get a quick counter attack and have there first shot and it goes in thats not fair if u ask me thats when i get annoyed

 

[jenicek68]

i also dont mind losing if they deserve to win i mean ive had games where ive had about 10 shots on target and the keepers saves them all and then they just get a quick counter attack and have there first shot and it goes in thats not fair if u ask me thats when i get annoyed

But isn´t it that thing, which makes football special?? Guys, i do understand that some of the staff should be made better, but why are you picking something, which real fan of PES loves.. If you wanna play synthetic game, than play fifa.. If you wanna be actor in movie called Football romance, than play PES..

 

[dan80]

yeh it is football but if they dominated the whole game then i would deserve to loose

 

[byondthought]

But isn´t it that thing, which makes football special?? Guys, i do understand that some of the staff should be made better, but why are you picking something, which real fan of PES loves.. If you wanna play synthetic game, than play fifa.. If you wanna be actor in movie called Football romance, than play PES..

it all depends when and how it happens, its too predictable... sometime its ok and sometimes its just stupid...

"Thats just stupid" i say it all the time when i play..

 

[Kevthedrummer]

scripting is AI though, without scripting there would be no AI - In a technical sense. They need to tweak their scripting though. They clearly have scripts such as "if the CPU is losing at 89 mins add 2 minutes and enough time for a goal!" - and these are what makes us feel cheated, but at the end of the day, these things happen in real football. It used to feel more intelligent though for sure!

 

[shaun7]

^Really true. But still, the CPU players almost always feel really good.

 

[wilsybill]

If you guys want to settle for lazy programming then by all means kid yourselves that the game scripting etc is realistic. I agree that in real life a team can dominate for 90 mins and stil lose. I have no problem with that. What I DO have a problem with is the cursor above my defender suddenly switching to another player to allow advantage to the CPU. A through ball going virtually 1 inch past 4 defenders with not one of them making an interception - all to give the CPU the advantage. Running to collect a through ball played in by the CPU - having a 10 yard head start, my player suddenly stops? Then starts up again at a snail pace despite me hammering the button to speed up. Striker nips in ahead of me, advantage CPU. Loosing every 50-50 challenge if I score and go ahead. My strikers suddenly being hit by a case of the snail pace and stopping bug when I'm clear and through on goal - defender makes up the 10 yards - advantage CPU. Defenders you're not in control of sliding in and gibving away a freekick/penalty and getting sent off - advantage CPU. Passes all of a sudden mid game falling woefully short or hit behind a player from 5 feet away - advantage CPU.

NONE of these things happen in REAL football. Can you imagine Ferdinand or Terry 10 yards head start on a striker just to stop then in slow motion run towards the ball, perhaps stop again. Striker nips in and scores - no! It doesn't happen because that's not REAL football. Ity's almost like the outcome of a game is decided, no matter how hard/well you play or how many shots you have on goal. KONAMI want to add this element of cheating since PES6 - what the hell was wrong with the engine and A1 before this? There was no cheating and the game was still a challenge. The answer is lazy programming end of story. There are some great ideas on here e.g. variable players skill from match to match OR team cohesion levels. Will we ever see this? Probably not. We'll wait until October and be served up PES 2009 with a tweak or two, but in a 2010 package.

I'm affraid as soon as KONAMI brought out this A1 remembers how you've played against it memory thing in PES 6 - it was the start of a slippery slope.

Guys this ISN'T realistic. Sad thing is, FIFA is even worse interms of realism, so true ES fans are buggered.

I want PES 5 gameplay back. I played that game for hours and really enjoyed it. AND it was challenging. The garbage we've had for the last 2 years is not fun. It's frustrating and makes me angry and stressed!!! NOT what you want from something you do in your leisure time.

KONAMI - stop being lazy and sort out this game.

 

[MachineHead]

I think that "Scripting" could play an important part of such a concept. Maybe if Konami implemented an in-game Confidence Level Gauge for each player -if- the player is having a poor game, his confidence level would be low, and consequently his Stats/Attributes would go down.

Fine, as long as it'd only affect the CPU. Your own confidence is what should affect your own team.

scripting is AI though, without scripting there would be no AI - In a technical sense. They need to tweak their scripting though. They clearly have scripts such as "if the CPU is losing at 89 mins add 2 minutes and enough time for a goal!"

What should only have effect is the player's mentality(or whatever it was) value. Some players might play a bit better in the end of the game IRL, too, but eventhough they do, it doesn't mean my players should become shit as a side effect. It's enough that my hands start shaking when the pressure is on

 

[byondthought]

If you guys want to settle for lazy programming then by all means kid yourselves that the game scripting etc is realistic. I agree that in real life a team can dominate for 90 mins and stil lose. I have no problem with that. What I DO have a problem with is the cursor above my defender suddenly switching to another player to allow advantage to the CPU. A through ball going virtually 1 inch past 4 defenders with not one of them making an interception - all to give the CPU the advantage. Running to collect a through ball played in by the CPU - having a 10 yard head start, my player suddenly stops? Then starts up again at a snail pace despite me hammering the button to speed up. Striker nips in ahead of me, advantage CPU. Loosing every 50-50 challenge if I score and go ahead. My strikers suddenly being hit by a case of the snail pace and stopping bug when I'm clear and through on goal - defender makes up the 10 yards - advantage CPU. Defenders you're not in control of sliding in and gibving away a freekick/penalty and getting sent off - advantage CPU. Passes all of a sudden mid game falling woefully short or hit behind a player from 5 feet away - advantage CPU.

NONE of these things happen in REAL football. Can you imagine Ferdinand or Terry 10 yards head start on a striker just to stop then in slow motion run towards the ball, perhaps stop again. Striker nips in and scores - no! It doesn't happen because that's not REAL football. Ity's almost like the outcome of a game is decided, no matter how hard/well you play or how many shots you have on goal. KONAMI want to add this element of cheating since PES6 - what the hell was wrong with the engine and A1 before this? There was no cheating and the game was still a challenge. The answer is lazy programming end of story. There are some great ideas on here e.g. variable players skill from match to match OR team cohesion levels. Will we ever see this? Probably not. We'll wait until October and be served up PES 2009 with a tweak or two, but in a 2010 package.

I'm affraid as soon as KONAMI brought out this A1 remembers how you've played against it memory thing in PES 6 - it was the start of a slippery slope.


KONAMI - stop being lazy and sort out this game.

yup happens human vs human too

"thats just stupid"