Define: Scripting

[abu97]

Completely agree with many of the previous posts the game is always finding ways of allowing your opponents to score ridiculous goals... I've decided to trade my copy in for PES2011, my last match involved a 5-0 loss with West Brom, at the hands of Newcastle... the mighty Peter Lovenkrands scoring 3 headers that I could do nothing to prevent.
Heading duels are one thing I've noticed to be atrocious on this game, when it's quite clear that the game 'decides' which player will win the header, no amount of Human effort can change it... even if you do by some miracle defy the scripting, your player just heads the ball straight up in the air or to the opposition.
As mentioned in a previous post, the prior-knowledge that the computer yields, as to which buttons you will press is heavily noticeable, especially when it constantly ghosts past you on mazy runs, or draws in free kicks: Slide in>computer turns>THEN the foul is given... ridiculous. Whilst such 'prior knowledge' if you will is noticeable on many football games, 2012 takes this to the extreme, in a way that I feel 2011... and PES5, going back a bit, don't.

Its funny how the CPU abuse and overpower their players, even in beginner mode. They turn every player into Godlike beasts and make them avoid every sliding challenge which they turn because they always have 99 agility and response.

 

[OCKRASS]

Its funny how the CPU abuse and overpower their players, even in beginner mode. They turn every player into Godlike beasts and make them avoid every sliding challenge which they turn because they always have 99 agility and response.

Sup Abu,

I would like to share some information with you in an effort for you to better understand what is "scripting" and how it affects the outcome of a game.

Firstly, let me point out that in terms of how define the word...you are wrong. There is no such thing as "scripting" in any game that make you lose or win in any video game.

First lesson...What is a script?
In computer programming, a script is a program or sequence of instructions that is interpreted or carried out by another program rather than by the computer processor or CPU as many incorrectly say. A CPU or Computer Processing Unit is a hardware that is an internal part of a computer. Since the PES (video game) is stored on a disc ...it does not have a CPU!

Second Lesson..How does a script work?
A script is sometimes used to mean a list of operating system or software commands that are prestored in a file and performed sequentially by the operating system's command interpreter whenever the list name is entered as a single command.
This means that each script written in PES's software is prestored..cannot be changed and is carried out the in the same pattern once the sequence is performed. Therefore..the commentary is always repeated for a throw in by the sequence it follows. So is the shooting and tackles. Different scenarios ...but all prestored.

Third Lesson..Input Scripts
Each video game is also programmed with input scripts. If you press cirlce while in possession of the ball, a prestored command is executed. If you press circle without possession of the ball a prestored command is also executed.

Therefore...a video is as good as its programming scripts. The more scripts programmed into the game, the more variety of sequential game play is realized. But ...But ... very big But here...

The user with the input script defines the sequence of the game. This boils down to ability, tactics and mentality....and of course a little bit of luck (as mentioned before by someone)

Will you be able to win all games? Not if the game is programmed with difficulty levels and is also defined by the AI's ability to use the statistics of highly skilled players. Better passes, shooting etc.

Therefore, losing a game 4-3 after being up 3-0 only means one thing...PANIC. The lack of ability to defend or realize pressure. This is not determined by the AI in any game ...its the user.

I hope this shed some light of this stupid idea that a video game with prestored commands just comes to life and start beating the crap out living, thinking people who has the ability to change anything they want to in the game......an ability that the OS on disc does not posses. It can only perform what has already been programmed ..nothing else.

Sore losers will be sore losers and of course PES is not the best programmed football game out today....it definitely has its faults.
Faults created by the lazy ass programmers at Konami.

Why on earth would anyone play a badly programmed game?

Whew! My longest post evar...:w00t

peace

 

[Sabatasso]

Are you for real Ockrass?

FYI Fifa isn't any better than PES in terms of programming, or scripting. Just that you are unable to see it, proves how unqualified you are to present a viable description on the subject in the first place.

A short and precise description of what people call "scripting";
Firstly, scripting is needed in a game to make it function. Scripting is the part of the game that doesn't involve graphics and sound. What people frown upon though, are the cheats that some games allow the AI to perform. I.E. How much the computer is restricted by the same boundaries the human player is.

Some typical signs of these cheats in PES are the response time a defender reacts to your moves, sometimes the AI ignore individual player weaknesses, the AI becomes "untouchable" for a period of time, you players suddenly becomes unresponsive, and get their passing & teamwork abilities halved.

Konami explains these types of scripts, and their explanation is viable in my opinion. The flow of the game is controlled by the game itself, in order to create more realistic results, thrilling games and also difficulty. But even if I agree with the explanation, I still think the execution is poorly done. And the AI meddle with things they should not. For example, I want my performance to be affected by myself and my individual players form, and not some external "game controller" that decides that my team should fall apart at 80 minutes. Especially because it happens way too often. This type of scripting also makes it more or less unimportant who the opponent is, because a game vs Bolton is just as hard as playing against Barcelona if you play competition modes.

Fifa is a little bit better in that department, but Fifa has other basic flaws. I find the two games fairly equal in quality (or lack of), but I prefer PES because it has, in my opinion, more strategical depth. In Fifa, for example, strength is the most important player ability. Get a striker that is stronger than most defenders, and you got yourself a star player regardless of his other abilities.

 

[OCKRASS]

Are you for real Ockrass?

FYI Fifa isn't any better than PES in terms of programming, or scripting. Just that you are unable to see it, proves how unqualified you are to present a viable description on the subject in the first place.


Some typical signs of these cheats in PES are the response time a defender reacts to your moves, sometimes the AI ignore individual player weaknesses, the AI becomes "untouchable" for a period of time, you players suddenly becomes unresponsive, and get their passing & teamwork abilities halved.


And the AI meddle with things they should not.

Fifa is a little bit better in that department, but Fifa has other basic flaws. I find the two games fairly equal in quality (or lack of), but I prefer PES because it has, in my opinion, more strategical depth. In Fifa, for example, strength is the most important player ability. Get a striker that is stronger than most defenders, and you got yourself a star player regardless of his other abilities.

Sup Sabatasso,

Thank you for letting me know that I am unqualified. Maybe its time for me to throw my IT degrees out the window.

I will not argue with you that you have seen problems in both games...but its not scripting where you believe the AI just decides to take over the game or "..meddle in things they should not".

Do you realize that all the moves in this game is programmed and prestored in the game. Do you recognize that the AI cannot do anything more that what it is programmed to do. Do you recognize that you have a huge advantage over the AI since you can change your style of play freely ....the AI cannot.

Now, how the hell is the AI cheating ya bro? ...you are cheating yourself. By..

1. Being awful at the game ....by the way Fifa does not rely on strength...it relies on agility, skills and tactics.

2. Playing a game such as PES that has clear programming issues.

Your players in PES dont just stop because the AI tells them to....they stop because the idiots at Konami failed to address these bugs. Shooting is way off in PES also ....is that because of scripting too.

Look, be smart stop blaming 11 computer generated players in a game for your downfall ....blame the developers.

Goddamn you guys are so stupid.

AI cheating......really:w00t

 

[Sabatasso]

By the way you are talking, Ockrass, you might as well throw your IT degrees out the window. The AI is not only predefined moves, they are a collaboration of "if". There are "hotspots" where a player desire to pass or run, but opponent players can reduce the desire to reach that particular hotspot by marking, pressure or by just being there. So then the AI player in question choose the next hotspot on the list, unless it's being made undesirable as well. That is also evident by the way the AI favor offensive passes, especially in earlier releases where support passes was non existent by the AI, unless you tweaked it thoroughly, to the point where it hardly wanted to pass forward at all. The only reason why "possession" game work to some degree in 2012, is because the strikers rarely make offensive runs or get into good positions (i.e. hotspots) during regular play, that force the AI to be somewhat possessive of the ball.

If you had any idea about programming in the first place, I would not have to tell you this...

And FYI, I am quite good at this game. One does not have to suck to notice weaknesses in the programming. If you had an ounce of the wits you think you have, you would know that complaining does not equal lack of "skill" or whatever you want to call it.

I am quite good at FIFA too, but that's hardly an achievement.

 

[OCKRASS]

By the way you are talking, Ockrass, you might as well throw your IT degrees out the window. The AI is not only predefined moves, they are a collaboration of "if". There are "hotspots" where a player desire to pass or run, but opponent players can reduce the desire to reach that particular hotspot by marking, pressure or by just being there. So then the AI player in question choose the next hotspot on the list, unless it's being made undesirable as well. That is also evident by the way the AI favor offensive passes, especially in earlier releases where support passes was non existent by the AI, unless you tweaked it thoroughly, to the point where it hardly wanted to pass forward at all. The only reason why "possession" game work to some degree in 2012, is because the strikers rarely make offensive runs or get into good positions (i.e. hotspots) during regular play, that force the AI to be somewhat possessive of the ball.

If you had any idea about programming in the first place, I would not have to tell you this...

And FYI, I am quite good at this game. One does not have to suck to notice weaknesses in the programming. If you had an ounce of the wits you think you have, you would know that complaining does not equal lack of "skill" or whatever you want to call it.

I am quite good at FIFA too, but that's hardly an achievement.

Good for you Sabatasso!

I not here to convince you that the AI in video game cheats human players. If you want to believe that and be ridiculed ...be my guest.
Maybe the AI will start controlling the color on you TV next.

peace.

 

[Sabatasso]

The PES AI obviously has taken control of your brain Ockrass, because it's clearly poorly coded and full of errors... It even makes you believe you're right, even when you're proven wrong.

Speaking of which, read through this thread and see who really made a complete fool out of oneself, is it me or is it you?

Yes, you are right for once, it's you.

 

[Amateur]

Given this word is dished out like candy on most posts regarding any new installment of PES, I'd like to know just what it is. Surely those discontent with PES 2012 (or any PES, for that matter) understand scripting and whatever alternatives there are. To me it seems like a form of governance or charter for games, and as it is true in most societies, governance is necessary. Are there any programmers (or authorities on the matter) who play PES and post on this site? I haven't the slightest clue about video game programming, and am wondering how necessary it is, and if PES 2012 could've been managed or programmed any other way. But in any event, I'm still enjoy the game.

Yeah but that does not change the fact that "predetermined play" is outdated at this point, people want something new; does it even matter if it's cheating or not? The fact that a video game which is supposed to be based on stats, needs to cheat the stats in order to increase the difficulty level, pretty much sums up how outdated and flawed the video game is.

A slow player suddenly becoming faster than your fastest player..... not cheating? I think that's mostly what people mean when they say "AI Cheating", whenever the computer cheats the stats, that's cheating, becasue it is out of your control and because the video game is supposed to revolve around stats yet needs to cheat the stats in order to increase the difficulty level.

In any case, regardless of whether or not you consider it cheating, nobody can deny that a video game that needs to cheat the stats in order to be challenging, is a flawed and outdated video game. For example, I've never seen such a thing when playing Mortal Kombat, because in Mortal Kombat the computer does not need to cheat the stats in order to increase the level of difficulty, and that's what makes video games like Mortal Kombat timeless.

Therefore, the claims of "AI Cheating" are far from unrealistic. I think you are blaming the consumer for the faults of a product.

Well, FIFA12 is better at creating the illusion of organic play, as it looks like the little dribbles are actually “organic” when in actual fact they are not. But other than the mentioned “organic feel” to the game, the game gets repetitive and predictable very quickly.

PES12 I would say is a little better in terms of collective play and the basic things, but in terms of “organic play” it is inferior to FIFA12.

With both games, PES in particular, I’m a little frustrated with the fact that fundamental improvements would take the game to a whole new level and Konami continues with the superficial tweaks; for example, the link up feints or dribbles, although very useful and effective, it is inevitable not to question why you only get to chose four identical preset copies for all the players.

I mean, is it that difficult to individualize the preset dribbling tricks? Well the idea of Xavi Hernandez having four trademark preset dribbling tricks and Lio Messi having a different four trademark preset dribbling tricks, it sure doesn’t sound complicated….. and it makes you wonder if Konami is intentionally not doing enough to up their game.

I mean, individuality was and nowadays is supposed to be the selling point of the PES franchise, yet why do we have a total of four link up dribbling tricks for the ten players on the pitch? It is in effect a clear contradiction of “player individuality” when Xavi Hernandez and Lionel Messi have the very same exact preset copies known as “link up” dribbles.

In addition to all that I have mentioned: why, if we have a total of at least four link up dribbles or feints, if the link up dribbles are attached to the right analog stick, why do we only get one identical copy per direction? And what I mean by that is simple, if I direct the right analog stick as far towards the west as the right analog stick can go, and then I direct the right analog stick slightly towards the west, why does it produce the same exact copy of the link up dribble that you have assigned to the mentioned direction (the west)?

Is it that complicated, to have ONE type of link up dribble per direction, but that the ONE type of dribble can be organic, so that if you (1st) direct the right analog stick as far towards the west as it can go, the dribble is more stretched, whereas if you (2nd) slightly direct the right analog stick towards the west, the dribble is less stretched: therefore you would have variation and an unmistakeable “organic feel” even though you’d only have one type of dribble per direction; or in other words, even thought the type of dribble would be preset, the range of movement within that particular preset dribble would be completely organic.

Then you implement a NEW STAT for it, you call it “movement within space”, so that the higher the “movement within the space” stat is, the more range of movement the player will have within each preset dribble: for example, an average player would only have one preset dribbling trick per direction with only one range of movement, this means that directing the right analog towards the same direction will always produce the same exact dribble, regardless of how far or how slightly you direct the right analog stick; on the other hand, a player like Lio Messi would have one preset dribbling trick per direction with four ranges of movement, which means that directing the right analog stick towards the same direction can produce significantly different variations of the same type of dribble.

And furthermore, on top of everything that I have said so far, why not have FIXED PRESET link up dribbles for star players the same way each character in Mortal Kombat has FIXED PRESET animations? It is a fairly simple concept, and I find it strange that Konami has not gone in that direction, considering the fact that “player individuality” USED to be the main selling point of PES.

So what I would do, is assign preset link up dribbles to star players, and I would maximize the number of dribbles which can be implemented into each direction: for example, Lio Messi has one type of dribble the first time that you direct the right analog stick towards the west, however, the second time that you direct the right analog stick towards the west, would produce a completely or slightly different type of dribble. This means that the diversity in terms of type of dribbling (as opposed to range of movement within one type of dribble), would be centered around the first touch of each star player: the first time you direct the right analog stick towards the west AFTER the star player had his first touch on the ball, the second time, the third time, would all be completely or slightly different types of preset dribbles, added to the organic range of movement within each type of dribble that each player will have (which is determined by the “movement within the space” stat).

Therefore, you would have a simple yet sensitive control scheme where one direction will offer both diversity in terms of type of dribbling and diversity in terms of range of movement within each type of dribble. That’s what PES12 needs the most, the preset dribbling concept although slightly outdated can work perfectly, but it needs to be organic when it comes to the range of movement within each preset dribble.

Like I said at the beginning of this rather long monologue, FIFA offers a good illusion of “organic” dribbling, but in actual fact, the dribbling is not organic at all, due to extremely logical reasons: such as the fact that there is no range of movement within each type of dribble, which means that although the dribbling tricks have an “organic” look to them, and although you can direct the right analog stick in more than just four directions, the right analog stick dribbling tricks are in actual fact just identical copies of the very same preset dribbling trick that is attached into each direction.

Konami does not need to copy the “organic” illusion that EA Sports has successfully created, attempting to do such a thing would only be detrimental for the PES series: no, Konami should not do that, what Konami should do, is go all the way, and simply produce a video game that feels “organic” because it is in fact organic.

In order to do that, Konami does not need to get rid of the preset or “scripted” concept, what Konami needs to do is simply implement a range of movement into each type of preset dribble: therefore, even though the heart of the game would remain preset or scripted, the outcome of each one versus one confrontation would no longer be scripted in any conceivable way, because within each scripted or preset dribble there would be a range of movement, and when you apply the same concept into the defensive side of the game, it creates a video game where the outcome of each one versus one confrontation is determined by the ability of the person whom is playing the video game.

That’s what I think Konami should do in order to win their hardcore fans back: no, it’s not copying FIFA12, but reinventing the old PES into an organic analog based experience. The problem that Konami has right now, is that the game is simply scripted to an extent where it just becomes intolerable, whereas FIFA12, although highly scripted, offers an “organic” illusion that Konami has failed to replicate successfully.

At the end of the day, many of the fans who used to be hardcore PES fans, are now playing FIFA12 because the “organic” illusion makes it easier on the eyes and easier on the touch, and just as influential, is the fact that PES does not offer anything that can truly compete with what FIFA12 offers: yes, you could argue that PES12 is smarter than FIFA12, but in comparison, is FIFA12 that much dumber? That used to be the case back in the PS2 days, PES6 was much smarter and superior in every conceivable way when you compared it with FIFA06, and that’s why PES6 could compete at that level even though FIFA06 had the clear advantage when it came to official licenses and marketing.

Nowadays, when you compare PES12 with FIFA12, you have to go into the details when you want to argue which game is smarter or better: PES no longer has better animations than its competitor, PES no longer feels more “organic” than its competitor, and PES is no longer head and shoulders above FIFA in terms of how smart the video game is; as a result, PES can no longer compete at the level that it used to compete.

To end this miserable rant, I must say that I think everything I’ve said pretty much explains how I feel about both PES12 and FIFA12; I think it’s clear that EA Sports is simply adding little gimmicks at this point, not really going for fundamental progress, and instead preferring to perfect the “organic” illusion that has become their trademark; whereas Konami is trying to remain competitive without really compromising itself to one specific and well defined direction.

So, for the last time, I must say that EA Sports has produced a better PES than Konami ever could: FIFA12 is just like the old PES, organic and fluid, yet extremely scripted in every area of the game. EA Sports not only did a better job, but also did it before Konami even had a chance to compete. This is why, I will say, again, for the last time, that Konami needs to reinvent the PES series, because that’s the one thing that EA Sports has not done, because that’s the one thing that EA Sports cannot do, because EA Sports is a follower, not an innovator; EA Sports has not reinvented PES nor has it reinvented the football genre as a whole, what EA Sports has done is simple, EA Sports simply produced a PS2 era game with an extra layer of “organic” illusion, which is why, at the heart of FIFA12, the d-pad identity can still be felt in all the areas of the game: PES on the PS2 was based around an eight directional button with no range of movement within any of its eight directions, FIFA12 is based around a 360 directional button with no range of movement within any direction, every single movement is preset or scripted, yet there is no range of movement within each type of preset movement that is implemented into every direction, because we are not talking about a video game which is based around a 360 analog stick, we are talking about a video game which is based around a 360 d-pad button…. Yes, going from an eight directional d-pad to a 360 directional d-pad is a perfection of the method, but I wouldn’t describe it as a reinvention.

Long story short: yes the game needs to be "scripted", all video games need to be scripted, but the script, in this day and age, should be organic and non-repetitive, unlike PES12 and FIFA12 which offer the same exact repetition of animations all the time.

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Sup Sabatasso,

Thank you for letting me know that I am unqualified. Maybe its time for me to throw my IT degrees out the window.

I will not argue with you that you have seen problems in both games...but its not scripting where you believe the AI just decides to take over the game or "..meddle in things they should not".

Do you realize that all the moves in this game is programmed and prestored in the game. Do you recognize that the AI cannot do anything more that what it is programmed to do. Do you recognize that you have a huge advantage over the AI since you can change your style of play freely ....the AI cannot.

Now, how the hell is the AI cheating ya bro? ...you are cheating yourself. By..

1. Being awful at the game ....by the way Fifa does not rely on strength...it relies on agility, skills and tactics.

2. Playing a game such as PES that has clear programming issues.

Your players in PES dont just stop because the AI tells them to....they stop because the idiots at Konami failed to address these bugs. Shooting is way off in PES also ....is that because of scripting too.

Look, be smart stop blaming 11 computer generated players in a game for your downfall ....blame the developers.

Goddamn you guys are so stupid.

AI cheating......really:w00t

Laughing my ass off, you talk about stupidity so casually without truly understanding the depths of hypocrisy of the statement that you just wrote.

So when the ball rebounds against three different players and then ultimately into the back of your net: that's a bug, right? So the video game has a bug where the same team is favored by four consecutive rebounds? Does four consistent rebounds not sound too consistent to be described as a mere "bug"? Are you convinced that four consecutive rebounds favoring the same team, is just a bug and not the result of programming which is designed to create "momentum shifts" that are completely out of your control as a gamer?

I don't expect you to respond logically, and I do not particularly care about your answer, I'm just addressing your weak argument so that other readers can see just how clueless and childish you truly are when it comes to criticizing video games such as PES12 and FIFA12.

 

[OCKRASS]

Laughing my ass off, you talk about stupidity so casually without truly understanding the depths of hypocrisy of the statement that you just wrote.

So when the ball rebounds against three different players and then ultimately into the back of your net: that's a bug, right? So the video game has a bug where the same team is favored by four consecutive rebounds? Does four consistent rebounds not sound too consistent to be described as a mere "bug"? Are you convinced that four consecutive rebounds favoring the same team, is just a bug and not the result of programming which is designed to create "momentum shifts" that are completely out of your control as a gamer?

I don't expect you to respond logically, and I do not particularly care about your answer, I'm just addressing your weak argument so that other readers can see just how clueless and childish you truly are when it comes to criticizing video games such as PES12 and FIFA12.

:w00t

Wow ...and how often does that happen the "four consistent rebounds" that you speak of. Are you just making up scenarios? Are you serious?

Where do you guys live? How is it possible for you to have a brain.

If the ball keeps rebounding off three players into my goal ...in every game, then i would call that a bug or a programming error.

Maybe you can make up some more stupid scenarios to make ME look stupid.

Idiots ...I swear ..pure 100% idiots ....:brickwall:

 

[Amateur]

:w00t

Wow ...and how often does that happen the "four consistent rebounds" that you speak of. Are you just making up scenarios? Are you serious?

Where do you guys live? How is it possible for you to have a brain.

If the ball keeps rebounding off three players into my goal ...in every game, then i would call that a bug or a programming error.

Maybe you can make up some more stupid scenarios to make ME look stupid.

Idiots ...I swear ..pure 100% idiots ....:brickwall:

A bug is more the type of thing that you can find in video games like Mortal Kombat, where certain players have certain attacks that are impossible to counter. However, the ball rebounding a certain way so that it favors you, should not be described as a "bug", because it is intentional, it does not happen by accident: it favors you at times, other times it goes against you, but you can easily notice it, you can tell it's going to happen before it actually happens, and the consistency of it does not make it look like a "bug" in my book.

Are there "bugs" in PES12? Of course there are, PES12 is such an unpolished turd that it should have more bugs than the ones it does have. But it seems to me like you are describing everthing that you consider flawed or unfinished as a "bug", and that's where you are wrong.

For instance, the computer cheating the stats in order to increase the difficulty of the game, is that a bug? No, that's programming, specifically done to make it more difficult for the gamer. Every rebound going in your favor, and then all of a sudden going against you? Not a bug, it's programmed with the intention of creating a feeling of "momentum" to the game. And it does not qualify as a "bug" because even in its most perfect form, it would not affect your ability as a gamer, because it is outside your control as a gamer: making it look like the animations are "organic" does not change the fact that the animations are not organic, and you can perfect the method to its fullest potential, but the fundamental flaw remains, and a fundamental flaw should not be carelessly described as a bug, bugs can be fixed, fundamental flaws cannot be fixed.

Your efforts at trolling are so weak, that I cannot help but think that you are not even trying, which inevitably leads me to ask myself: why the fuck do you even bother in the first place, why invest so much time, if you do not really love the art? And whatever the real answer is, I can safely say that proper trolls must look at you with either disgust or indifference. In any case, seeing how you invest so much time trolling without really enjoying it, I do genuinely hope that you have better things to do with your time in your actual life; but yeah, as far as this website goes, you are indeed an idiot, trolls look at you and feel better about themselves, normal people look at you and feel better about the fact that they aren't trolls, you're that guy.

 

[OCKRASS]

A bug is more the type of thing that you can find in video games like Mortal Kombat, where certain players have certain attacks that are impossible to counter. However, the ball rebounding a certain way so that it favors you, should not be described as a "bug", because it is intentional, it does not happen by accident: it favors you at times, other times it goes against you, but you can easily notice it, you can tell it's going to happen before it actually happens, and the consistency of it does not make it look like a "bug" in my book.

Are there "bugs" in PES12? Of course there are, PES12 is such an unpolished turd that it should have more bugs than the ones it does have. But it seems to me like you are describing everthing that you consider flawed or unfinished as a "bug", and that's where you are wrong.

For instance, the computer cheating the stats in order to increase the difficulty of the game, is that a bug? No, that's programming, specifically done to make it more difficult for the gamer. Every rebound going in your favor, and then all of a sudden going against you? Not a bug, it's programmed with the intention of creating a feeling of "momentum" to the game. And it does not qualify as a "bug" because even in its most perfect form, it would not affect your ability as a gamer, because it is outside your control as a gamer: making it look like the animations are "organic" does not change the fact that the animations are not organic, and you can perfect the method to its fullest potential, but the fundamental flaw remains, and a fundamental flaw should not be carelessly described as a bug, bugs can be fixed, fundamental flaws cannot be fixed.

Your efforts at trolling are so weak, that I cannot help but think that you are not even trying, which inevitably leads me to ask myself: why the fuck do you even bother in the first place, why invest so much time, if you do not really love the art? And whatever the real answer is, I can safely say that proper trolls must look at you with either disgust or indifference. In any case, seeing how you invest so much time trolling without really enjoying it, I do genuinely hope that you have better things to do with your time in your actual life; but yeah, as far as this website goes, you are indeed an idiot, trolls look at you and feel better about themselves, normal people look at you and feel better about the fact that they aren't trolls, you're that guy.

:brickwall: Reeetard!

 

[Sabatasso]

Your efforts at trolling are so weak, that I cannot help but think that you are not even trying, which inevitably leads me to ask myself: why the fuck do you even bother in the first place, why invest so much time, if you do not really love the art? And whatever the real answer is, I can safely say that proper trolls must look at you with either disgust or indifference. In any case, seeing how you invest so much time trolling without really enjoying it, I do genuinely hope that you have better things to do with your time in your actual life; but yeah, as far as this website goes, you are indeed an idiot, trolls look at you and feel better about themselves, normal people look at you and feel better about the fact that they aren't trolls, you're that guy.

Well said, end of discussion!

 

[kishores_bin]

Ok, so I didn't really want to create a new thread for this, but just found a fairly appropriate one.

Played PES 2012 for the first time in over a month yesterday..... I stopped after 2 games!
First game (both online) went alright, I won 2-0.

2nd game.... my goodness! Fair enough, he was a decent player by all accounts. His first goal was an absolute fucking disgrace. He went through on goal after my defence literally stepped out of the way, shot, it took a touch off the keeper before it started trickling towards goal. I managed to get my player back in time to try and clear the ball. He does clear it..... but straight into the keepers face and the ball goes ballooning into the goal. Nice bit of scripting there.
I score straight after through some more nice scripting as his defence goes missing and my shot takes a deflection of the defenders leg, and goes straight into the corner.

Round about the 75th minute he scores again, through the aid of countless deflections. I'd almost had enough. I try to go on the attack, but every pass goes astray and my players are playing like a bunch of Sunday League 7th division players. I put the controller down in disgust just to kill off the last 5 mins. He gets a corner, plays it short, moves into the box..... my defender comes rushing out to tackle the player (bear in mind that I've put the controller down) and tackles the attacker fairly...... the referee gives a foul!!! The player didn't even fucking go down!!!

THERE is your definition of scripting.

How anyone can call this a good game is beyond me, it really is.

Christmas rant over. Have a lovely day folks!

WOOwww!! I laughed madly after reading this post. You made my day. I can imagine the peaks of frustration you might have experienced then and still PES teasing you with more right in front of your eyes. Loved that imagination. Dude, on the serious note, practice a little bit more and you would be fine. I am a Computer Science graduate working with an MNC and write scripts myself day in and day out at work, and I don't want to enter this AI scripting rant going on here.. But can advice you one thing as a good lad, Just practice more and you would one day be the most happiest chap playing a video game and that will be PES 12. It will unviel you all the emotions(satisfaction, frustration, disbelief, hardluck, goodluck,sense of achievement, etc..etc) a football fan need. Konami works in mysterious ways and I can see their visualization in bringing the most realistic game, and this mere attempt is making the game mysterious and buggy/scripty, what ever you want to take. Once you feel the way Konami tried to visualize the game while developing, and try to incline accordingly and play the game, you see the most realistic display of a football/soccer(don't want another rant here, lol..) in a video game. Hope you get my point..

 

[Jeronimoe]

its when the cpu decide the outcome of the match- where every pass goes, every shot, the score line, corners. Nothing is random like a real football game, everything is rigged or fixed. This is why when you verse a team like Barca and you are a worse team like Arsenal and you are leading, the cpu decide this is wrong and they'll do anything to make them win and this includes undefendable through balls, stupid corners, wrong ref decisions, passes not going where they were meant to be for you, CPU going godlike intercepting every pass, you missing easy chances and much more. And whats worse is that they'll most likely leave it to the last few minutes so there'll be a harder to chance for you to get a goal. The only way to avoid this is when you are winning, play keepball but even that fails as CPU put godlike pressure so your passes go awkward

I find this happen when I use AC Milan against Napoli!

 

[trup2foryou]

Since there are so many folks here who refuse to open their eyes, I made a series of vids addressing the very issue of AI cheating, scripting, whatever you want to call it. I show examples of AI players closing down my attacker from behind even though my player has a 10 pt advantage in speed. I show plays where I clearly hit the jump button defending a cross, my defender starts the jump animation and then just stops allowing the attacker to score. Please note that in every one of the games I show, I actually won every game. So please, kishores_bin, don't give your snarky "just practice more"!! Maybe you have $60 burning a hole in your pocket every fall and are willing to purchase a crap product, but don't be arrogant and act like you somehow have higher abilities. What the AI does to your defense has nothing to do with real soccer. PERIOD!

Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_t7sJAnKuE

 

[IronCity]

^I gave the vid a quick look, did a bit FFwding - but I like how you show one of my biggest pet peeves - when I head a ball or receive a long goal kick the ball almost always goes to the opposition. but then the opposition heads or receives a long goal kick that ball goes to the opposition in stride.

drives me crazy to receive a long goal kick only to watch the ball ricochet off of me at triple the speed and onto a CPU foot.

I see you have several parts - I will have to check out the others.

 

[trup2foryou]

^I gave the vid a quick look, did a bit FFwding - but I like how you show one of my biggest pet peeves - when I head a ball or receive a long goal kick the ball almost always goes to the opposition. but then the opposition heads or receives a long goal kick that ball goes to the opposition in stride.

drives me crazy to receive a long goal kick only to watch the ball ricochet off of me at triple the speed and onto a CPU foot.

I see you have several parts - I will have to check out the others.

Thanks for he feedback. Te 1st vid is a lot (maybe too much) of me talking. Vids 2-5 really get into the comparisons with the way your team plays vs how the AI controlled team plays. As I say time and again in the vids, I love PES and only do these to point out what has driven me away and would love to see fixed. PES 2012 for me is the most bittersweet because there is a foundation there of a truly great footy game that is destroyed (for me at least) because of this stuff.

 

[zizou4ever]

Since there are so many folks here who refuse to open their eyes, I made a series of vids addressing the very issue of AI cheating, scripting, whatever you want to call it. I show examples of AI players closing down my attacker from behind even though my player has a 10 pt advantage in speed. I show plays where I clearly hit the jump button defending a cross, my defender starts the jump animation and then just stops allowing the attacker to score. Please note that in every one of the games I show, I actually won every game. So please, kishores_bin, don't give your snarky "just practice more"!! Maybe you have $60 burning a hole in your pocket every fall and are willing to purchase a crap product, but don't be arrogant and act like you somehow have higher abilities. What the AI does to your defense has nothing to do with real soccer. PERIOD!

Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_t7sJAnKuE

Very interesting videos, trup2foryou. I have watched all of them. It is sad to see how bad the offline experience is in PES 2012. But at the same time, it is not a surprise. I am an offline player and since day 1 I have noticed the "strange" behaviour of AI in some moments.

AI cheating, scripting, whatever you want to call it, has been present in PES since PS2. But I think the worst was in PES 2008. PES 2012 comes in second.

Very sad…

 

[abu97]

Since there are so many folks here who refuse to open their eyes, I made a series of vids addressing the very issue of AI cheating, scripting, whatever you want to call it. I show examples of AI players closing down my attacker from behind even though my player has a 10 pt advantage in speed. I show plays where I clearly hit the jump button defending a cross, my defender starts the jump animation and then just stops allowing the attacker to score. Please note that in every one of the games I show, I actually won every game. So please, kishores_bin, don't give your snarky "just practice more"!! Maybe you have $60 burning a hole in your pocket every fall and are willing to purchase a crap product, but don't be arrogant and act like you somehow have higher abilities. What the AI does to your defense has nothing to do with real soccer. PERIOD!

Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_t7sJAnKuE

You need to send that vid to KONAMI

 

[techboy11]

Agreed I'm afraid. That's why from now on the PC version is the only way for me. I refuse to shell out good money on something that can't be edited or modded.