Goodbye Konami, moving on...
- Thread starter thekidcastro
- Start date
shaun7
Registered User
Sorry to jump in, but what are you coming from about the speed?
Seriously, pes 11 was faster than pes 12 in any speed setting. I played the ps3 version, but I have the PC version right now and the speed is certainly slower than pes 11.
As for the overall speed of the game. YES, I agree, the passing speed is fast( even though it was faster in pes 11), they need to tone down the passing speed and ACCURACY and make close control less effective but not by much.
As for the AI. IT NEEDS MORE MIDFIELD PRESSURE. Not the mindless pressure from fifa, but pressure with closer closing down and better positioning that make us panic more.
CheatersSuck
Registered User
I agree with that to a certain extent. While previous PES games of this gen felt too tight and rigid and needed to feel lighter and looser, PES2012 is slightly too light. The field needs a bit more friction and the players need to feel a bit more heavy.
RCD-Espanyol
Registered User
Por favor, no teatroooo @ opener
I thought a change would be nice, and wanted to see how Fifa 12 was and bought it online. I really wanted to see how the online faired after being relatively impressed by the demos, as well as the stats system. I should have known it was just all slick presentation hiding a flawed gameplay and felt like a tit for being drawn in... :laugh:
Firstly i thought it was great that theres no disconnects and if there was, everytime, i would get money (i mainly played Ultimate Team-kind of like the Master League Online but with random players drawn from the cards). But after a week of playing, i lost my patience and got a refund (Thank you Distance Selling act UK xD). Lag was terrible for a lot of the online games and despite the positives of no cheat disconnecting the lag was unplayable.
Secondly... all those people complaining about the defending system on Pes 12... try Fifa 12's defense, its absolutely terrible. :angry:
And you lot complaining about runners... once a striker gets a bit clear, theres no catching up with him despite your defender having superior pace. Plus most games ended with about 6 or 8+ goals total...
And before anyone says anything, its my first fifa game and out of 60 odd games i had 35+ wins.
And now i understand the people who say you can only score scripted goals. Plus everyone is two footed, its unrealistic and stupid. And players doing all sorts of stupid tricks that isnt possible in real life makes it feel like those old megadrive games, where you input certain sequence of buttons at the title screen... :laugh:
Despite some online problems, im gonna get PES 2012. I cannot believe I was stupid enough to think Fifa 12 was gonna be better online, nor the gameplay... or the fact i actually bought it...
Bleh. The only positive now is that despite initially not really looking forward to Pes 2012, now im dying for it after playing fifa 12 xDDD
I thought a change would be nice, and wanted to see how Fifa 12 was and bought it online. I really wanted to see how the online faired after being relatively impressed by the demos, as well as the stats system. I should have known it was just all slick presentation hiding a flawed gameplay and felt like a tit for being drawn in... :laugh:
Firstly i thought it was great that theres no disconnects and if there was, everytime, i would get money (i mainly played Ultimate Team-kind of like the Master League Online but with random players drawn from the cards). But after a week of playing, i lost my patience and got a refund (Thank you Distance Selling act UK xD). Lag was terrible for a lot of the online games and despite the positives of no cheat disconnecting the lag was unplayable.
Secondly... all those people complaining about the defending system on Pes 12... try Fifa 12's defense, its absolutely terrible. :angry:
And you lot complaining about runners... once a striker gets a bit clear, theres no catching up with him despite your defender having superior pace. Plus most games ended with about 6 or 8+ goals total...
And before anyone says anything, its my first fifa game and out of 60 odd games i had 35+ wins.
And now i understand the people who say you can only score scripted goals. Plus everyone is two footed, its unrealistic and stupid. And players doing all sorts of stupid tricks that isnt possible in real life makes it feel like those old megadrive games, where you input certain sequence of buttons at the title screen... :laugh:
Despite some online problems, im gonna get PES 2012. I cannot believe I was stupid enough to think Fifa 12 was gonna be better online, nor the gameplay... or the fact i actually bought it...
Bleh. The only positive now is that despite initially not really looking forward to Pes 2012, now im dying for it after playing fifa 12 xDDD
RCD-Espanyol
Registered User
I completely disagree, when everyone used to choose Inter or Brazil and Ibra and Adriano was just ridiculously overpowered... not to mention the unrealistic overpowered 4-2-4 formation you could use. and lets not mention the cutbacks or first time shots that always arrowed in.
Though true enough the next...2 or so installments after pes 6 were piles of shit.
The_whisper
Registered User
You nailed it bro. It's like there is no friction...it's too light for my taste and needs to weight up a bit. Previous versions were tighter and I expected that more freedom would bring the kinda loose feeling PES12 has but MY GOD its TOO light !
Am I being over sensitive?
The_whisper
Registered User
Dude I'm talking about the PS3 version. Believe me, it's much faster compared to PES11 and at any speed level. I have heard the PC version is slower and I envy that, but the question is, why the hell should they do that? Is that a hardware problem with PS3? Do 360 users feel the same compared to PC?
The_whisper
Registered User
This is just unacceptable...why would they do that? :no:
Seriously, the loose feeling is a game killer....players feel like headless chickens skating on ice most of the time. This light feel effects the game play mechanics too....from collisions to shots...everything feels weird.
and the feel is stronger at lower game speeds.
PES12 one step forward two steps back...
DiegoMalgani
Registered User
Guys, first of all thanks for the kudos (for those that gave it to me). I found this site about 3 years ago and I have never strayed from it to get the latest PES news. I was always a passionate football fan (having grown up playing the game since I was 4) and I discovered PES in 2004. Before that I had mainly played FIFA, but certain aspects of that series just really rubbed me the wrong way (mainly character models and player movements). The first time I played PES I was simply blown away at the way the players moved, the fluidity of the passing, and the overall responsiveness of the game. It was a total package. I am passionate about PES first and foremost and I want to see it return to glory, but I fear Konami and Seabass have peaked. The last PES game I played religiously was 2009. Although it lacked the total polish of the previous iterations (except 2008 which was an aberration), it was an incredibly fun game that was easy to pick up but took time and patience to master. Most of all that game didn't have the ridiculous gimmicks that PES 2011 or PES 2012 have. Linking feints, controlling players who don't have the ball, these ideas are pathetic manifestations of Seabass grasping at straws to right the ship.
The best challenge I ever got in a football game was Winning Eleven 2007, which I believe is PES 6 or 7. Playing on the World Class level was not only a challenge, it was fun. Playing against Italy with Brazil represented a different challenge than say playing against England with Brazil. In the latest iterations of PES (specifically 2011 and 2012) playing against any team on the highest difficulty levels presents the same dogged, near impossible challenge. As I previously mentioned, every team parks the bus and utilizes a lightening quick counter attacking game that is almost near impossible to implement in real football (unless you are a Mourinho coached team). My ultimate point is a team like Rangers present the same difficulties that teams like Barcelona or Milan present. The game is becoming devoid of any creativity. More and more I find myself trying to pass the ball into the net because the game simply does not give you any space. The game is so rigid in its defensive parameters that it simply negates any creativity or ingenuity. It makes me wonder if Seabass and his associate actually watch any real football or even speak to professional players to gauge how to make an accurate soccer simulator.
This game simply doesn't give you a chance. On top of broken shooting mechanics, the heading in this game is also atrocious. I don't think I've put a single free header on target in this game. Every header leads to the ball ballooning over the net. Wing play and crossing is simply broken as well. Strikers are never in the right position to finish plays off, and when they are they simply miss the ball. Where are the volleys? PES 2009 was renouned for this! Instead what we have now is players trying bicycle kicks outside the box rather than simply one time shooting it out of the air. I've only ever seen only player score on a bicycle kick from way outside the box (Mauro Bressan). What happened to the through balls and lobbed through balls? The opposition defense can cut these out extremely easily, even while being flat footed! I don't think I've ever won a 50/50 physical challenge when I have possession of the ball, yet the opposition AI is able to fight me off rather consistently. The joy of scoring is even taken out because now, even your own goals are scripted. Case and point is when I scored two Cristiano Ronaldo free kicks by sending a low hard shot through the goalie's legs. That is right, I nut-megged a keeper who had a clear view on a low shot right at him from about 25 yards out. Unless the goalie is Roy Carroll this isn't going to happen.
More and more Konami is taking user control and subsequently playability out of our beloved PES. What I propose is simple. Take the old PES 5 or 6 engine, add in current teams and rosters, keep the game play the exact same and release it as an Xbox Live and Playstation Network downloadable game. Stop relying on gimmicks like your competitors to get the edge!
The best challenge I ever got in a football game was Winning Eleven 2007, which I believe is PES 6 or 7. Playing on the World Class level was not only a challenge, it was fun. Playing against Italy with Brazil represented a different challenge than say playing against England with Brazil. In the latest iterations of PES (specifically 2011 and 2012) playing against any team on the highest difficulty levels presents the same dogged, near impossible challenge. As I previously mentioned, every team parks the bus and utilizes a lightening quick counter attacking game that is almost near impossible to implement in real football (unless you are a Mourinho coached team). My ultimate point is a team like Rangers present the same difficulties that teams like Barcelona or Milan present. The game is becoming devoid of any creativity. More and more I find myself trying to pass the ball into the net because the game simply does not give you any space. The game is so rigid in its defensive parameters that it simply negates any creativity or ingenuity. It makes me wonder if Seabass and his associate actually watch any real football or even speak to professional players to gauge how to make an accurate soccer simulator.
This game simply doesn't give you a chance. On top of broken shooting mechanics, the heading in this game is also atrocious. I don't think I've put a single free header on target in this game. Every header leads to the ball ballooning over the net. Wing play and crossing is simply broken as well. Strikers are never in the right position to finish plays off, and when they are they simply miss the ball. Where are the volleys? PES 2009 was renouned for this! Instead what we have now is players trying bicycle kicks outside the box rather than simply one time shooting it out of the air. I've only ever seen only player score on a bicycle kick from way outside the box (Mauro Bressan). What happened to the through balls and lobbed through balls? The opposition defense can cut these out extremely easily, even while being flat footed! I don't think I've ever won a 50/50 physical challenge when I have possession of the ball, yet the opposition AI is able to fight me off rather consistently. The joy of scoring is even taken out because now, even your own goals are scripted. Case and point is when I scored two Cristiano Ronaldo free kicks by sending a low hard shot through the goalie's legs. That is right, I nut-megged a keeper who had a clear view on a low shot right at him from about 25 yards out. Unless the goalie is Roy Carroll this isn't going to happen.
More and more Konami is taking user control and subsequently playability out of our beloved PES. What I propose is simple. Take the old PES 5 or 6 engine, add in current teams and rosters, keep the game play the exact same and release it as an Xbox Live and Playstation Network downloadable game. Stop relying on gimmicks like your competitors to get the edge!
People gripping with their nails to PES5,6 over & over again times are completely far out imo to be honest.
This is understandable behaviour though and occurs everywhere and in all gaming series, music bands (the first record was the best, I liked them before), cars etc. you name it.
Pes 5 & 6 were in my book good solid games which I played a lot as well. But football sims no way.. They were much simplified compared to current PES iteration and that's most likely the reason why there were working well! They were to me arcadish, fun to look and easy & FUN TO PLAY but hard to master. That's why ppl keep coming back to Pes 6. Whereas I think PES2010, 11, and most likely 12 are harder to pick up and play.
Note that there was no 360 movement, no pass speed, ML players developed insanely, no BAL. Pes 6 and Pes 11 are completely from different planet and its the same as comparing Windows & MAC or Pizza & Kebab etc.
Makes no sense at all.
And btw, to me maybe the best iteration of Pes was 2010. Only bad thing being AI was too easy. Ppl complained about controls being sluggish, but duh it was the best thing imo as it made players feel like they WEIGH something. Now Konami has tuned that down again and there are complains about the skating/light feeling of players.. As I've stated before, I really hope Konami takes the "Rockstar" approach and simply ignores almost all fan opinions and just do their thing.
This is understandable behaviour though and occurs everywhere and in all gaming series, music bands (the first record was the best, I liked them before), cars etc. you name it.
Pes 5 & 6 were in my book good solid games which I played a lot as well. But football sims no way.. They were much simplified compared to current PES iteration and that's most likely the reason why there were working well! They were to me arcadish, fun to look and easy & FUN TO PLAY but hard to master. That's why ppl keep coming back to Pes 6. Whereas I think PES2010, 11, and most likely 12 are harder to pick up and play.
Note that there was no 360 movement, no pass speed, ML players developed insanely, no BAL. Pes 6 and Pes 11 are completely from different planet and its the same as comparing Windows & MAC or Pizza & Kebab etc.
Makes no sense at all.
And btw, to me maybe the best iteration of Pes was 2010. Only bad thing being AI was too easy. Ppl complained about controls being sluggish, but duh it was the best thing imo as it made players feel like they WEIGH something. Now Konami has tuned that down again and there are complains about the skating/light feeling of players.. As I've stated before, I really hope Konami takes the "Rockstar" approach and simply ignores almost all fan opinions and just do their thing.
The_whisper
Registered User
yes WEIGHT....lost word in PES 2012
shaun7
Registered User
I find this a bit hard to believe really. MAYBE it's you TV and some settings that make it like that because I too have played the ps3 version and although it's slightly faster than the pc version, it's by no means faster than pes 11. But anyway, I WON'T ARGUE, BECAUSE I AM NOT IN YOUR SITUATION
thekidcastro
Registered User
If you actually didnt purchase PES 2012, sales will drop and Konami will be forced to do something. Like bring back the glory days of PES5/6 - especially 6. This is the reason I created the thread in the first place. Im no opinion basher, I like that we can have differing opinions on a subject in a forum such as pesgaming.
My main issue is with Konami NOT PES as such. I feel like they are selling me the same game with tweaked gameplay every year, now you tell me... I work a mid to low income job and yet I pay money to buy a game which has semi-updated rosters, tweaked gameplay, junk online for me being in Australia but always great graphics... Is it worth it? Ive got every single PES since the PS1 days. Back then they were bought for me by parents but now that Im shelling my own money out for a game, I expect development, ground breaking improvement, the last time I felt this way was PES6 as many of you agree.
The truth of the matter is, the PS3 killed PES, I can honestly say that. Ask yourself has Konami made any game which took advantage of pure online features. Have they invested money in building great net code and online gameplay. Why are they behaving like everyone plays single player PES and there servers are all in Europe. From an Australians perspective, they have not given us enough to compliment them with more money. All the servers in Europe and net code broken.
Me moving on to FIFA is not in anyway to show that FIFA12 is a better game, NOT AT ALL. Its me being sick of playing the same game every year with a few tweaks. I want a change and need a change to enjoy my football passion with friends and family. I enjoy this, I have a group of mates who took PES games very seriously, since we cannot prove ourselves online because of the constant laggy games, we had bragging points between each other. Cannot tell you how long we continued this trend of playing for weekends on end until the new one came out. All of us are playing Fifa now because we all agreed that we either just stick with pes 11 or try something different.
Im enjoying the change, and to tell you the truth, there are many bugs in Fifa but at least I can play a lagless game online, this is what I want. Its like 2 different systems, Ive moved from Android to IOS, Im still adjusting but it appeals to me. Im one of you guys who put in the time into importing 1000 files into the PS3 to load correct kits. Ive been there done that for years....
Cheers
My main issue is with Konami NOT PES as such. I feel like they are selling me the same game with tweaked gameplay every year, now you tell me... I work a mid to low income job and yet I pay money to buy a game which has semi-updated rosters, tweaked gameplay, junk online for me being in Australia but always great graphics... Is it worth it? Ive got every single PES since the PS1 days. Back then they were bought for me by parents but now that Im shelling my own money out for a game, I expect development, ground breaking improvement, the last time I felt this way was PES6 as many of you agree.
The truth of the matter is, the PS3 killed PES, I can honestly say that. Ask yourself has Konami made any game which took advantage of pure online features. Have they invested money in building great net code and online gameplay. Why are they behaving like everyone plays single player PES and there servers are all in Europe. From an Australians perspective, they have not given us enough to compliment them with more money. All the servers in Europe and net code broken.
Me moving on to FIFA is not in anyway to show that FIFA12 is a better game, NOT AT ALL. Its me being sick of playing the same game every year with a few tweaks. I want a change and need a change to enjoy my football passion with friends and family. I enjoy this, I have a group of mates who took PES games very seriously, since we cannot prove ourselves online because of the constant laggy games, we had bragging points between each other. Cannot tell you how long we continued this trend of playing for weekends on end until the new one came out. All of us are playing Fifa now because we all agreed that we either just stick with pes 11 or try something different.
Im enjoying the change, and to tell you the truth, there are many bugs in Fifa but at least I can play a lagless game online, this is what I want. Its like 2 different systems, Ive moved from Android to IOS, Im still adjusting but it appeals to me. Im one of you guys who put in the time into importing 1000 files into the PS3 to load correct kits. Ive been there done that for years....
Cheers
I believe everything you just said apart from pes 6 as i had that on xbox and it was crap.
I feel konami aren't looking at the ps3 properly as it has the potential to make pes the best but konami don't make use of these features enough - pes 2012 added you can control a 2nd player which is an example of konami looking at the ps3 hardware but they are still not doing it enough. A lot of people say pes 2012 is good but for me it's annoying bugs and stupid collision system and animations and it's gamebreaking ridiculous things like mlo percentage completion make it not good enough for this year.
If this game was released few years ago this could be the best game but i don't blame konami too much as it has improved gameplaywise from pes 2011 and if this improving rate increases in the next year(s), it can easily be the best footie game on the market
I feel konami aren't looking at the ps3 properly as it has the potential to make pes the best but konami don't make use of these features enough - pes 2012 added you can control a 2nd player which is an example of konami looking at the ps3 hardware but they are still not doing it enough. A lot of people say pes 2012 is good but for me it's annoying bugs and stupid collision system and animations and it's gamebreaking ridiculous things like mlo percentage completion make it not good enough for this year.
If this game was released few years ago this could be the best game but i don't blame konami too much as it has improved gameplaywise from pes 2011 and if this improving rate increases in the next year(s), it can easily be the best footie game on the market
thekidcastro
Registered User
Yeah PES6 on 360, not so good but PS2 was beautiful.
This is the point im trying to make, take charge of the platform in front of you Konami. Take a step back and take 2 years to make a groundbreaking game!!! or start preparing for the Playstation 4. Start developing your net code and you will blow FIFA out of the water and all the customers will come to you.
This is the issue, whats the difference between Konami and EA both are bringing out a game yearly so not much effort is put in. 12,13,14,15,16,17,18...... ok none of those are ground breaking.
:shocking:
shaun7
Registered User
I agree with the point that Konami needs an overhaul in pes because for the the improvements they made to pes 12, the game still has some annoying stuff that are extremely annoying.
But that said, Fifa 12 is the inferior game overall. Yes it does posses that initial spark where you say
"wow, this is great"
However give it time and the problems start to emerge. Pes shows it's flaws from the beginning.
But trust me when I say this. Fifa 12 is not a great game at all. It's better than fifa 11 without a doubt, BUT IT IS CHEAP and the used cheap tactics to make us think that the game is challenging.
And PES 6 IS OVERRATED. Pes 11 and 12 are much better than that overrated game. Pes 5 was the pinnacle not 6. Go play Pes 6 today and you will see that it's not what you had remembered.
But that said, Fifa 12 is the inferior game overall. Yes it does posses that initial spark where you say
"wow, this is great"
However give it time and the problems start to emerge. Pes shows it's flaws from the beginning.
But trust me when I say this. Fifa 12 is not a great game at all. It's better than fifa 11 without a doubt, BUT IT IS CHEAP and the used cheap tactics to make us think that the game is challenging.
And PES 6 IS OVERRATED. Pes 11 and 12 are much better than that overrated game. Pes 5 was the pinnacle not 6. Go play Pes 6 today and you will see that it's not what you had remembered.
I don't really get the fuss about pes 6. both 3 4 and 5 were waaay better. In pes 6 the refs were absolutely shite. Furthermore the distance between defence-midfield-attack was to far. It was to easy passing the ball around with anything happened and if you played with an attacking mf he was always given to much space due to the above mentioned problem - i played it recently on the ps2 just to see if i was completely insane or if people may have a tendency to overrate pes 6, and i found that the latter was the case