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How to Negate the Scripting?

sabocat

Registered User
Ok, so I'm asking for the help of my fellow members here. First a quick venting:

I've bought both FIFA 15 and PES 15 (at a combined cost of over US$100), and to be honest, while PES far outclasses FIFA in terms of gameplay, I've been sorely disappointed with both games. They both seem to rely on scripted routines and pre-determined outcomes for "excitement".

For instance, I've never been able to catch a winger running down the flank in either game. Instead, my player's path is taken over by the CPU and just locked in behind the winger.

Another example: I'm playing a Master's League season as Barca, and my first match against Napoli always ends in me losing. I've Ctrl+F4'd out of the application in frustration several times, killed the process and restarted four times now, always with the same outcome. If I score a goal, the CPU IMMEDIATELY scores another, from some impossible cross. No matter what buttons I press, my players don't react. They just watch the ball go right past them. When I review the CPU's goals in instant replay, I can't see anything I could have done differently to defend against the goal, leading me to believe that this is simply a pre-programmed routine the game is running.

It isn't the losing that bothers me; it's that the outcome has been decided before I even start playing. This isn't difficulty; difficulty implies the chance, however small, of success. I feel like I paid $40 for an animated GIF.

So my question is: what am I doing wrong? Do I just not understand how PES works? Do I just not understand soccer well enough? I'm totally willing to admit I'm wrong if that's the case (I hope it is, in fact) and learn. Or is this really how the game is supposed to work? If so, is there anyone on EARTH who actually enjoys this?

Again, if there's a way to negate the game's scripts, I'm all ears. Otherwise, I'll stick to piracy for sports games from hear on out.
 

abbyabz

Registered User
I'm enjoying it a lot apart from the online issues. I've not felt like the game was scripted maybe put the hardness down a bit?

Do you use off ball controls (L1 & Flick the right stick at team mate to make him make a run) I find it helps a lot.

D pad up/down offensive/defensive
 

sillen102

Registered User
Unless the CPU scores right after kick-off you might consider being a total douche and just time waste for the rest of the game by just passing between your defenders after you have taken the lead. That might change the outcome. As far as I know the CPU doesn't realize this and starts to press as high as a human player would. But then again, I don't think the CPU is capable of considering you a douche either :)
 

Parkinfed

Registered User
Ok, so I'm asking for the help of my fellow members here. First a quick venting:

I've bought both FIFA 15 and PES 15 (at a combined cost of over US$100), and to be honest, while PES far outclasses FIFA in terms of gameplay, I've been sorely disappointed with both games. They both seem to rely on scripted routines and pre-determined outcomes for "excitement".

For instance, I've never been able to catch a winger running down the flank in either game. Instead, my player's path is taken over by the CPU and just locked in behind the winger.

Another example: I'm playing a Master's League season as Barca, and my first match against Napoli always ends in me losing. I've Ctrl+F4'd out of the application in frustration several times, killed the process and restarted four times now, always with the same outcome. If I score a goal, the CPU IMMEDIATELY scores another, from some impossible cross. No matter what buttons I press, my players don't react. They just watch the ball go right past them. When I review the CPU's goals in instant replay, I can't see anything I could have done differently to defend against the goal, leading me to believe that this is simply a pre-programmed routine the game is running.

It isn't the losing that bothers me; it's that the outcome has been decided before I even start playing. This isn't difficulty; difficulty implies the chance, however small, of success. I feel like I paid $40 for an animated GIF.

So my question is: what am I doing wrong? Do I just not understand how PES works? Do I just not understand soccer well enough? I'm totally willing to admit I'm wrong if that's the case (I hope it is, in fact) and learn. Or is this really how the game is supposed to work? If so, is there anyone on EARTH who actually enjoys this?

Again, if there's a way to negate the game's scripts, I'm all ears. Otherwise, I'll stick to piracy for sports games from hear on out.
It is not as scripted as you think. The thing is, even in real football, you're at your most vulnerable when you have just scored. This can be mostly negated by keeping a defensive outlook when the kick off takes place after a goal, win the ball back and be sensible enough to keep it. "Kill the game" my old coach used to say.

About defense in general. In defense there is nothing that is more important than positioning. Get your positioning right and you'll always have the advantage. If a striker gets goal side of you, 90% of the time he will score from an incoming cross. The game has quite a bit of defensive learning curve every year, keep at it and you will get it eventually.

I really hope you can enjoy the $100 you spent. All the very best.
 

Swanee

Registered User
I've not encountered any major scripting like i have done in previous series it's a little bit more subtle this year which is great and hasn't left me going mad throwing my controller against the wall. Scripting occurs a little bit more often on Top Player then Superstar i have noticed though i can safely say most goals i conceded were of my fault. An absolute pleasure of a game and i couldn't be any more chuffed with how it plays and having been away from the series for a couple of years once i relearn how to play the game on superstar i'm sure i will be even happier
 

matthewjohn85

Registered User
i play with barca on superstar setting and i have noticed that after ive been slugging and relentlesly grinding passes and through balls to finally score in the 67th minute away to levante with a hard fought goal i then relax a bit too much at kick off for them to play 2 passes and one through ball out to the right and with some bad timingby mydefence i would concede straight away, but on the other hand if i am fully alert and learn my lesson and not hold r1 and x then switch with l1 that makes the com on superstar sometimes especially when their tales are up play through you easily so if i sit back and quick posistion my players and combine O with the right X then i can win the ball back and then it can set me up to eventually get a killer second but it all to do with how much and quick your closing down cutting off the space in front of the passer and the determined posistion of your back four when intercepting attacks and how you go about combining the two depends on the coms attitude playing it along the back on one twos down the wing or directly through your centre every com situation when attacking you is differant and also depends on the score the ground and say in the chanpions league a team wasnt even attacking as a 0-0 draw would put them through but i managed to ping a munir strike in before halftime and then they went fir the jugular
 

Rat Monkey

Registered User
The game is class. I'm loving it. One thing that is a little lacking is that there doesn't seem to be much of a tussle for the ball most of the time, when going shoulder to shoulder which it had last year. It can be hard to push physically weaker players off it, or maybe I'm not used to it quite yet.
 

baangus

Registered User
It is not scripted, and there is no pre-determined win-lose scripting in either game. Both games are terrific this year, it's a fantastic year for football gaming. FIFA 15 requires a lot of editing to make it play like sim football whereas PES 2015 plays sim right out of the box. That is the only significant game play issue with either game.
 

baangus

Registered User
It can be hard to push physically weaker players off it, or maybe I'm not used to it quite yet.
The higher the difficulty, the harder to push players off the ball. In general some of the player ratings are too vanilla, that's part of the problem. There needs to be more of a ratings spread. Weak players should be rated 40-60, strong players 80-99. Instead, most players are rated 60-79 sort of thing.
 

TeknoBug

Registered User
Yes I'm enjoying the game and just like in real life, after scoring a goal the other team usually pushes because you become overconfident with the lead. Encounter that by pulling your defense further back and crowding the ball carrier (don't chase him around).

Funny thing about myClub squad, I get better team spirit with the manager's defense lineup (78) over offense lineup (70) so when I start each match I switch to defense and the team works together like clockwork.

The higher the difficulty, the harder to push players off the ball. In general some of the player ratings are too vanilla, that's part of the problem. There needs to be more of a ratings spread. Weak players should be rated 40-60, strong players 80-99. Instead, most players are rated 60-79 sort of thing.
Yeah I have a few players with physical strength of 30 or lower, I've been trying to put together CB's with strength 60 or higher but the drawback is most of them has a speed of 40 or lower- can't have the cake and eat it too I guess.
 

sabocat

Registered User
I get what everybody is saying, and I agree - both games are the best they've ever been.

As far as going to sleep after a goal goes... Yeah, I've played with players like that too. As soon as we go up, they figure their work is done for the day. The thing is, I'M not one of those players; I get extra sharp after a goal, precisely to guard against that. But the game doesn't give you a choice. It decides that you're off your mark for you. The CPU team on the other hand gets all psyched up when they score and play better. My players get bummed out, and play worse.

And this is really my gripe with both games: I already have emotions; I already have a personality. I don't need the game to simulate that for me. In fact, it's using my OWN emotions and my OWN intelligence (or lack thereof) and understanding of the game that is the entire reason I play sports (video or in meatspace) in the first place. To have that negated is extremely frustrating. If I get lazy after a goal, and they score, shame on me. But if the game just plays a long ball to an area of the pitch where I'm not in control of the player, then sends a cross in, the game ignores my input (the power bar ramps up, but the defenders NEVER jump for the ball - seriously, I haven't been able to one-touch clear a ball yet) and they score from a header from the top of the box.... that doesn't feel like difficulty. That feels like the game forced my head into a toilet full of piss and shit. Not fun.

It is not scripted, and there is no pre-determined win-lose scripting in either game. Both games are terrific this year, it's a fantastic year for football gaming. FIFA 15 requires a lot of editing to make it play like sim football whereas PES 2015 plays sim right out of the box. That is the only significant game play issue with either game.
What kind of editing can I do to improve FIFA?

I haven't played myClub yet, but I have played FUT. I played one online match and I was done. I played with the players I was assigned. The other guy had bought all Gold pack players. It was insane. It was like someone else had my controller. I think that's the real reason behind all the "emotion AI" etc. To get fans to cough up even more money for better players. Charging full price every year for minor updates isn't enough, apparently. At least that seems to be the case with FIFA.
 

RBENJAMIN

Registered User
It is not as scripted as you think. The thing is, even in real football, you're at your most vulnerable when you have just scored. This can be mostly negated by keeping a defensive outlook when the kick off takes place after a goal, win the ball back and be sensible enough to keep it. "Kill the game" my old coach used to say.

About defense in general. In defense there is nothing that is more important than positioning. Get your positioning right and you'll always have the advantage. If a striker gets goal side of you, 90% of the time he will score from an incoming cross. The game has quite a bit of defensive learning curve every year, keep at it and you will get it eventually.

I really hope you can enjoy the $100 you spent. All the very best.
I agree,like real life it's all about game management in football. I always have three tactics: 1.my main style of play which I want to impose on the other team.

2. Counter attack, get players behind the ball but have three or four who will break forward once I win the ball back, good for away games and for 5-10 minutes after I've scored to keep it tight.

Then there's the 3rd, deep back line, deep lying midfield, both wingers and full backs man marking their wingers and basically park the bus to either get a point against a better opponent or hold out for the last five minutes.

If you figure out your tactics and execute them you get less frustrated by scripting, because you can put a stop to it.
 

sabocat

Registered User
I agree,like real life it's all about game management in football. I always have three tactics: 1.my main style of play which I want to impose on the other team.

2. Counter attack, get players behind the ball but have three or four who will break forward once I win the ball back, good for away games and for 5-10 minutes after I've scored to keep it tight.

Then there's the 3rd, deep back line, deep lying midfield, both wingers and full backs man marking their wingers and basically park the bus to either get a point against a better opponent or hold out for the last five minutes.

If you figure out your tactics and execute them you get less frustrated by scripting, because you can put a stop to it.

That's a good point. I haven't really explored the tactics at all, since I just don't know that much about football strategy/tactics. Where could I go to learn about that? Thanks again for all the input. I'm learning to appreciate the game more.
 

baangus

Registered User
What kind of editing can I do to improve FIFA?
FIFA PC mods, editing tools, etc. at soccergaming forums. I gave up on console gaming three years ago for the same reason: all the cheats in FIFA, the CPU shifting into hyper-attack, the lame and predictable 45 and 90 minute CPU goals and so forth. I bought a gaming PC so that I could mod both games, FIFA and PES. It is possible to mod and edit most of that cheat programming out of these games.

As for the console version, you can solidify your defense when the CPU shifts into hyper-attack mode by using park the bus d-pad tactics as RBEN suggested. You can also use the line sliders to pull your players back and get more defenders in your box to help. The lower you set those sliders, the further back your players drop and the tighter they stay together.
 

LanceButters

Registered User
Who doesn't see the scripting/handicapping in this game is basically the reason why they dare such thing.

Beside that thr game feels so restricted in terms of control. I dont know what Konami was thinking.
 

baangus

Registered User
Who doesn't see the scripting/handicapping in this game is basically the reason why they dare such thing.
Huh? No, the scripting as you call it is simply tactical AI programming the CPU shifts into from time to time. As poorly and as idiotically as it's programmed in FIFA in particular, all games require AI programming of this kind. Would be a pretty dull and unrealistic game otherwise if the CPU never amped up its attack in the last 10 minutes when 2 goals down for example.
 

Ali

It is happening again
Huh? No, the scripting as you call it is simply tactical AI programming the CPU shifts into from time to time. As poorly and as idiotically as it's programmed in FIFA in particular, all games require AI programming of this kind. Would be a pretty dull and unrealistic game otherwise if the CPU never amped up its attack in the last 10 minutes when 2 goals down for example.
I disagree.

The "scripting" as we all call it, is when you're powerless to do anything against the CPU team's attack. When your players move out of position, when the ref gives an incredibly dubious free kick etc etc etc. In previous PES games, and indeed in Fifa, it's painfully obvious when there's gonna be a goal.

They need to figure out ways of making better AI controlled teams, without handicapping the player.
 

baangus

Registered User
I disagree.

The "scripting" as we all call it, is when you're powerless to do anything against the CPU team's attack... it's painfully obvious when there's gonna be a goal.
You're never powerless. Use line sliders and d-pad tactics to tighten your defense when the CPU shifts into hyper-attack mode. The CPU is given ratings boosts yes. But there is no scripting in the game that decides the CPU is going to score no matter what. See the screen: When the CPU shifts into attack mode, I use the d-pad tactics and line sliders to bring all 10 players back into my box, eliminating all CPU passing and shooting lanes.

 

Ali

It is happening again
But there is no scripting in the game that decides the CPU is going to score no matter what.
Why are people so easy to dismiss scripting, when plenty of people will tell you that it's there? We have the same arguments every year with PES. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it's not there.

It's actually a good thing that you don't see it. You can enjoy the game more without feeling that you're fighting against the programming. :thumbsup:
 

LEGOFLAMB22

Registered User
Ok, so I'm asking for the help of my fellow members here. First a quick venting:

I've bought both FIFA 15 and PES 15 (at a combined cost of over US$100), and to be honest, while PES far outclasses FIFA in terms of gameplay, I've been sorely disappointed with both games. They both seem to rely on scripted routines and pre-determined outcomes for "excitement".
Yeah - pro evo always cheats and it even does it a little bit when you're playing human players.

It does seem a little less scripted this year than previous ones (even on superstar computer makes mistakes etc, rather than just being terminators)

Jenkey1002 did a good job with his game config selector thing at removing 'ai scripting' in 2013 and you could also change one of the save fiules to read only which stopped the game recording your wins and losses so it made it like you were playing a fresh install of pro evo for each game.

This year hopefully someone will devise a way of achieving something similar.
 
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