MysteryMan
Registered User
This was posted by some guy on pro evo web, im just posting it here since I agree with alot of it.
"PES series have been lagging behind FIFA series in the past few years and the gap seemed to be getting further and further until last year when I had a feeling Konami had begun to finally close the gap with PES 2011 for the first time.
This year has been a massive disappointment for me as a football fan because all hope I had for PES 2012, which was simply improving on the good base 2011 had put for the series, were shattered.
Animations are absolutely abysmal.
I have no idea what happened to Konami when the next generation consoles came out, or even after PES 2010 where a large set of newly motion captured animations were scrapped but I can point out that PES 2012’s animations, dare I say, are worse than old generation PES games.
I was watching a few PES 5 matches on YouTube and I was amazed by the quality of animations back in the day and wonder why the current animations are worse than the ones released 5 years ago!
There is almost no variety in animations.
Part of football is all about watching your opponents’ movements and reacting according to them, however animations in PES 2012 don’t make any sense at all. Passing, shooting, crossing, goalkeeper and movement animations are not only limited, dated and unnatural at times, they just look wrong in a sense that, for example, ball trajectory does not follow the shooting or passing animation at all.
I don’t expect anything like FIFA’s new fancy collision system (which is shit by the way), but something worthy of a current gen console.
Is that too much to ask after so many years?!
What Konami have done this year is removing almost every good aspect of PES 2011.
While FIFA has always been the pretty game, PES is now, the senses of weight, momentum and player individuality are gone.
Player individuality has come to its worst state in the series.
One of the reasons I generally have preferred PES series to FIFA has been the uniqueness of players, capturing the sense of every stat in a more simulation-based experience.
Ladies and gentlemen, that is history in PES 2012.
Let me start by stating that shooting was one of PES 2011’s low points for me, the whole ‘body shape’ thing was lacklustre and wasn’t believable at times.
Instead of toning this down to a system that made sense, Konami decided to make sure you can shoot a rocket to the top corner with Mertesacker’s weaker foot from behind the box while he is being jostled/pressured by a couple of opponents (yes, this happens on a regular basis).
Also the German national can dribble past players at times, something he would never attempt in real life.
And pretty much every body can play precise long balls with their weaker foot.
Don’t get me wrong, I was never a big fan of elephant touches of players in PES, as some stats like ball control have been over-exaggerated in the past as well as response which has always been a bit of an issue in PES (PES 2010 anyone?), but this is rather ridiculous.
My dad was watching me play Spurs the other day and he hit bull’s eye when he asked me whether that was Messi playing for Spurs with all the mazy runs and precise dribbling skills and a classic well-placed shot far away from goalkeeper’s reach.
Unfortunately it was a player not known for any of those qualities: Benoît Assou-Ekotto!
Ball physics are bizarre.
Time was you could rely on PES to have a whacking, hefty physics model where the ball would be loaded with lead and tackles were accompanied by a gorgeous 'wumph'.
Bizarrely, distressingly, that sense of weight has gone.
The ball floats listlessly through the air with unnatural trajectory, and the physics are strangely inconsistent. The ball just behaves weirdly at times, wobbling off at an unlikely trajectory or magically picking up speed and whooshing across the turf like a greased pinball. All down to the scripted nature of current-gen PES series in my opinion.
Momentum (and hence inertia) were another of PES series’ qualities which made it closer to the real thing. Being able to run like on skates like you do in FIFA was prevented due to applying these basics of physics mechanics.
To add insult to injury, that sense of inertia is gone too. Players feel weightless, can turn easy. I play AI and it’s all run, stop, run stop.
It looks wrong; it plays bad and all in all not only captures the essence of football, it leaves you confused and frustrated at times.
Collision Detection and Player Awareness are still poor despite being improved since last year.
There are still plenty of perfect challenges that can get booked. Referees are still unsatisfactory.
Switching system and goalkeepers are still in dire need.
Passing goes to wrong players when you have two players on the same path.
Ping-pong passing, shooting, crossing is still there.
These were one of my main gripes about PES’s recent releases which strangely have not been identified, or ignored by the community.
While EA have been slowly toning down the whole ping-pong thing year after year, Konami seem to be happy to keep it. This too removes a chunk of realism from this lifeless title.
Despite various efforts by Konami since the first beta, goalkeepers are still in a terribly unsatisfactory state. Awful response to shots, the animations, the awareness.
It just adds to the terrible experience PES 2012 is.
Add all this to the fact that the game’s speed which is too fast.
It feels arcady, like an ugly, half-arsed and bug-plagued version of an old FIFA title.
All in all, PES 2012 is an arcade videogame, and a very bad one.
For me, this has got to be one of the worst PES titles to date in terms of both playability and realism and I would have been ashamed to have it released had I been the executive producer.
And anyone calling PES a simulation should seek help from a psychiatrist urgently."
I don't exactly agree with completely everything but I do agree with a good chunk of it, some parts might be just a bit overexagerated but most is true.
The biggest thing out of this wall of text for me is the mention of removal of all the good things that were in pes 2011, I agree with that and I think its not only illogical its absolutely unforgivable, what was KONAMI thinking really removing most of the good improvements made with pes 2011?
Either they really don't get our feedback or they simply ignore it because there are so many issues we reported and so many things we praised and for them to remove the things we praised and leave many issues we despised only points to one out of these two things. This is the biggest problem and this is the sole reason why PES is improving by 3 steps forward and 2 steps back every year.
Sadly FIFA is also shit but they are improving alot, this year is a lot better than last year and even tho alot of us are pes fans I think most of us will switch to FIFA in the next few years as I have a feeling they will keep improving and if the manage to listen to feedback im sure they will make a great and enjoyable game in the next 1-2 years.
PES I think will never reach its former glory unless the developer team and mainly its boss is completely removed and changed.
Without listening to the fans and our feedback they will never make a good game for us, its useless.
Hope im wrong but I have officialy lost every faith I ever had in this KONAMI developer team.
"PES series have been lagging behind FIFA series in the past few years and the gap seemed to be getting further and further until last year when I had a feeling Konami had begun to finally close the gap with PES 2011 for the first time.
This year has been a massive disappointment for me as a football fan because all hope I had for PES 2012, which was simply improving on the good base 2011 had put for the series, were shattered.
Animations are absolutely abysmal.
I have no idea what happened to Konami when the next generation consoles came out, or even after PES 2010 where a large set of newly motion captured animations were scrapped but I can point out that PES 2012’s animations, dare I say, are worse than old generation PES games.
I was watching a few PES 5 matches on YouTube and I was amazed by the quality of animations back in the day and wonder why the current animations are worse than the ones released 5 years ago!
There is almost no variety in animations.
Part of football is all about watching your opponents’ movements and reacting according to them, however animations in PES 2012 don’t make any sense at all. Passing, shooting, crossing, goalkeeper and movement animations are not only limited, dated and unnatural at times, they just look wrong in a sense that, for example, ball trajectory does not follow the shooting or passing animation at all.
I don’t expect anything like FIFA’s new fancy collision system (which is shit by the way), but something worthy of a current gen console.
Is that too much to ask after so many years?!
What Konami have done this year is removing almost every good aspect of PES 2011.
While FIFA has always been the pretty game, PES is now, the senses of weight, momentum and player individuality are gone.
Player individuality has come to its worst state in the series.
One of the reasons I generally have preferred PES series to FIFA has been the uniqueness of players, capturing the sense of every stat in a more simulation-based experience.
Ladies and gentlemen, that is history in PES 2012.
Let me start by stating that shooting was one of PES 2011’s low points for me, the whole ‘body shape’ thing was lacklustre and wasn’t believable at times.
Instead of toning this down to a system that made sense, Konami decided to make sure you can shoot a rocket to the top corner with Mertesacker’s weaker foot from behind the box while he is being jostled/pressured by a couple of opponents (yes, this happens on a regular basis).
Also the German national can dribble past players at times, something he would never attempt in real life.
And pretty much every body can play precise long balls with their weaker foot.
Don’t get me wrong, I was never a big fan of elephant touches of players in PES, as some stats like ball control have been over-exaggerated in the past as well as response which has always been a bit of an issue in PES (PES 2010 anyone?), but this is rather ridiculous.
My dad was watching me play Spurs the other day and he hit bull’s eye when he asked me whether that was Messi playing for Spurs with all the mazy runs and precise dribbling skills and a classic well-placed shot far away from goalkeeper’s reach.
Unfortunately it was a player not known for any of those qualities: Benoît Assou-Ekotto!
Ball physics are bizarre.
Time was you could rely on PES to have a whacking, hefty physics model where the ball would be loaded with lead and tackles were accompanied by a gorgeous 'wumph'.
Bizarrely, distressingly, that sense of weight has gone.
The ball floats listlessly through the air with unnatural trajectory, and the physics are strangely inconsistent. The ball just behaves weirdly at times, wobbling off at an unlikely trajectory or magically picking up speed and whooshing across the turf like a greased pinball. All down to the scripted nature of current-gen PES series in my opinion.
Momentum (and hence inertia) were another of PES series’ qualities which made it closer to the real thing. Being able to run like on skates like you do in FIFA was prevented due to applying these basics of physics mechanics.
To add insult to injury, that sense of inertia is gone too. Players feel weightless, can turn easy. I play AI and it’s all run, stop, run stop.
It looks wrong; it plays bad and all in all not only captures the essence of football, it leaves you confused and frustrated at times.
Collision Detection and Player Awareness are still poor despite being improved since last year.
There are still plenty of perfect challenges that can get booked. Referees are still unsatisfactory.
Switching system and goalkeepers are still in dire need.
Passing goes to wrong players when you have two players on the same path.
Ping-pong passing, shooting, crossing is still there.
These were one of my main gripes about PES’s recent releases which strangely have not been identified, or ignored by the community.
While EA have been slowly toning down the whole ping-pong thing year after year, Konami seem to be happy to keep it. This too removes a chunk of realism from this lifeless title.
Despite various efforts by Konami since the first beta, goalkeepers are still in a terribly unsatisfactory state. Awful response to shots, the animations, the awareness.
It just adds to the terrible experience PES 2012 is.
Add all this to the fact that the game’s speed which is too fast.
It feels arcady, like an ugly, half-arsed and bug-plagued version of an old FIFA title.
All in all, PES 2012 is an arcade videogame, and a very bad one.
For me, this has got to be one of the worst PES titles to date in terms of both playability and realism and I would have been ashamed to have it released had I been the executive producer.
And anyone calling PES a simulation should seek help from a psychiatrist urgently."
I don't exactly agree with completely everything but I do agree with a good chunk of it, some parts might be just a bit overexagerated but most is true.
The biggest thing out of this wall of text for me is the mention of removal of all the good things that were in pes 2011, I agree with that and I think its not only illogical its absolutely unforgivable, what was KONAMI thinking really removing most of the good improvements made with pes 2011?
Either they really don't get our feedback or they simply ignore it because there are so many issues we reported and so many things we praised and for them to remove the things we praised and leave many issues we despised only points to one out of these two things. This is the biggest problem and this is the sole reason why PES is improving by 3 steps forward and 2 steps back every year.
Sadly FIFA is also shit but they are improving alot, this year is a lot better than last year and even tho alot of us are pes fans I think most of us will switch to FIFA in the next few years as I have a feeling they will keep improving and if the manage to listen to feedback im sure they will make a great and enjoyable game in the next 1-2 years.
PES I think will never reach its former glory unless the developer team and mainly its boss is completely removed and changed.
Without listening to the fans and our feedback they will never make a good game for us, its useless.
Hope im wrong but I have officialy lost every faith I ever had in this KONAMI developer team.
