I bet it's gonna suck

[S-D-P]

@the mystery man

Trust me mate I aint no fanboy, got bored of that years ago. Iv'e slated konami for the past few years and turned to fifa until pes 2011.

All those people who love pes 2011 and understand its nuances must be wrong then? and apparently I'm a fanboy for being one of those people lol.

And missing 5/10 times is based on you being wank at the game:lol:

 

[shaun7]

SDP. The thing about the shooting is that it's way too automatic and I really mean too much assistance. But another problem is that the assistance is not good enough as many shots that you try (placed shots especially) go in the middle most of the time even though you pressed the right buttons for it to go in the side.

So the way I see, it is to make the shooting like the passing. More semi assisted. That way, you press the directions and stuff and HE ACTUALLY TRIES TO SHOOT THERE, but then the shot would be better placed harder struck depending on the individual, the player's you're controlling.

But I do agree that the overall shooting is not bad, it's actually good enough. A few fixes here and there and it would be great.

 

[S-D-P]

SDP. The thing about the shooting is that it's way too automatic and I really mean too much assistance. But another problem is that the assistance is not good enough as many shots that you try (placed shots especially) go in the middle most of the time even though you pressed the right buttons for it to go in the side.

So the way I see, it is to make the shooting like the passing. More semi assisted. That way, you press the directions and stuff and HE ACTUALLY TRIES TO SHOOT THERE, but then the shot would be better placed harder struck depending on the individual, the player's you're controlling.

But I do agree that the overall shooting is not bad, it's actually good enough. A few fixes here and there and it would be great.

Shaun I am really split about this, on one hand I love the shooting as it combines the instinctive nature of striking a ball along side other contextual aspects, ie body position, momentum, angle you approach the ball and backlift etc. However I do agree with the comparisons you make to passing, I would like a system that combines what I mentioned above but with a more manual aspect, however this would be difficult to achieve.

For the most part shooting feels organic to me, but at times It can have a slightly automatic feel as if the stats work themselves rather than you being in control of the stats if that makes sense.

I do feel the system replicates real life very well and takes skill to master, but more user input without losing individuality would take it to the next level. The manual pass modifier in pes relies heavily on user input but also stats to a smaller degree, I think the shot system could take a lead from this.

 

[Sabatasso]

I do feel the system replicates real life very well and takes skill to master, but more user input without losing individuality would take it to the next level. The manual pass modifier in pes relies heavily on user input but also stats to a smaller degree, I think the shot system could take a lead from this.

What part of the shooting requires "skill to master" if I may ask?

The push of a single button or the doze of luck that decides if it's a hit or a miss?

I know there are some factors of speed, pressure and positioning involved, but for the most part, the game is going so fast that you can't really do anything but shoot and pray in most cases.

In other words, it's easy and it requires no leet skillz or e-penis factor to accomplish, and what you do with the stick to place the shot only affects it a tiny tiny bit.

Anyway, since I stopped shooting and started to round the keeper, I rarely score less than 5 goals per match, but if you try to shoot past the keeper on 1 on 1's you'll easily see 3-6 misses on clear cut chances, not saves but clean MISSES. THAT'S how flawed shooting really are. And I have not even started on those generic long shots.

 

[IronCity]

I think shots OFF goal are frustrating. But when I watch a real match I feel the number of shots OFF goal are rather comparable to PES. I have seen a lot of good shooters in the EPL in live matches rocket the ball at two times the height of the net or 6 feet to the left. That is why PES has the "oh shit, hands on head" animation for players. Happens all the time in live matches. I do agree however with the two posts above that a little more skilled control needs to be implemented, but I would still hope that 2012 will continue with a good number of off goal shots. I love the balance aspect for shooting in 2011. It often forces you to do more than a one touch effort - I imagine that coding trumps FIFA 11.

 

[shaun7]

Shaun I am really split about this, on one hand I love the shooting as it combines the instinctive nature of striking a ball along side other contextual aspects, ie body position, momentum, angle you approach the ball and backlift etc. However I do agree with the comparisons you make to passing, I would like a system that combines what I mentioned above but with a more manual aspect, however this would be difficult to achieve.

For the most part shooting feels organic to me, but at times It can have a slightly automatic feel as if the stats work themselves rather than you being in control of the stats if that makes sense.

I do feel the system replicates real life very well and takes skill to master, but more user input without losing individuality would take it to the next level. The manual pass modifier in pes relies heavily on user input but also stats to a smaller degree, I think the shot system could take a lead from this.

But still I do think that more user input combined with the player individuality (more like semi assisted) shooting would be much better because at least it would take more skill to place the ball where you want, but at the same time, the player's stats come into play and the ball will go closer to goal depending on the player's shooting ability.

Not like fifa semi assisted though because it's way too sensitive and there's no individuality in that apart from power, but more like the pes 11 passing. I am talking about the type of shot where you can control how hard and the direction you shoot, but then the player's ability comes in and the player will aim better if he has better shooting skills.

 

[S-D-P]

@Sebatasso

Not saying its perfect, but 80% of the time I understand why a shot has traveled the way it did, I feel you have to take different factors into consideration when striking the ball and this is the reason I like the shooting mechanics. For example I can create different shot types based on the way I strike the ball and the angle at which you connect with the ball, I do agree that it can feel hit or miss at times and sometimes can come down to pure luck. Hard to explain what I mean without the game in front of me, but I feel the mechanics represent real life very well.

@shaun7

I agree about more directions, at times the shooting can feel stiff and no matter where you aim it can go in a specific direction. I think the analog could be utilised much more for shooting, ie using the analog to add more backspin and top spin which would result in shots of more varying trajectory.

I would love a system with a full 360 ratio for shooting, but the key thing here is how would that take stats into account? I agree more user input is needed despite my love for the current system.

 

[Sabatasso]

@Sebatasso

Not saying its perfect, but 80% of the time I understand why a shot has traveled the way it did, I feel you have to take different factors into consideration when striking the ball and this is the reason I like the shooting mechanics. For example I can create different shot types based on the way I strike the ball and the angle at which you connect with the ball, I do agree that it can feel hit or miss at times and sometimes can come down to pure luck. Hard to explain what I mean without the game in front of me, but I feel the mechanics represent real life very well.

I also think it works nice in training, but in matches against AI you are always under pressure. You can't get a fucking moments relief to lay off a proper shot. This is all a problem because the defenders, regardless of Top Speed and Acceleration, are faster than Usain Bolt.

In the real world players like Messi and Ronaldo are able to shake off the defenders a tiny second to get off that shot properly, there are a few defenders who are impossible to shake off though. But in PES 2011, any defender, including 17 year old "nobodys" from Iraq stick to Messi like superglue...

If they based defense on pressure and positioning rather than constant ball chasing, they would not have to resort to such "arcade-ish" measures to resolve the two figured scorelines.

Although, I would prefer two figured scorelines in two-player over what PES 2011 produced, honestly. I would just play more, but shorter matches with my friends. Problem solved.

I would love a system with a full 360 ratio for shooting, but the key thing here is how would that take stats into account? I agree more user input is needed despite my love for the current system.

Why wouldn't stats be involved?

Now it's like this: you press shoot and press left. AI reads checking shot technique and finishing -> number crunching -> you shoot way over to the right

With control over where you want to put it: you press shoot and press left. AI readschecking shot technique and finishing -> number crunching -> you shoot outside to the left.

I don't see why that would be so hard, really. The better skill, the more precise, and more importantly, more hits on target.

Almost every time I rush toward a defender and feint right, go left and shoot "in the step", the ball goes to the right side of the goal, hits and misses alike, but my stick clearly intends that I want to shoot to the left. I can control every fucking thing else I want my player to do, why not the shot placement?

And I am not talking about flukes, I want more flukes to be honest. Flukes that goes way off, and flukes that goes straight in.

 

[Amateur]

What part of the shooting requires "skill to master" if I may ask?

The push of a single button or the doze of luck that decides if it's a hit or a miss?

I know there are some factors of speed, pressure and positioning involved, but for the most part, the game is going so fast that you can't really do anything but shoot and pray in most cases.

In other words, it's easy and it requires no leet skillz or e-penis factor to accomplish, and what you do with the stick to place the shot only affects it a tiny tiny bit.

Anyway, since I stopped shooting and started to round the keeper, I rarely score less than 5 goals per match, but if you try to shoot past the keeper on 1 on 1's you'll easily see 3-6 misses on clear cut chances, not saves but clean MISSES. THAT'S how flawed shooting really are. And I have not even started on those generic long shots.

Fully agree with that. The game is going so fast that you barely do anything, it is mostly determined by the computer. The fact that you cannot determine movement without also affecting your position on the pitch and without also affecting your visual perspective, tells you just how fast this game plays; it's impossible to do anything without moving through space.

And the thing that makes Lio Messi the player that he is, is not how fast he moves through space, but how skillful he is within the space. PES and FIFA still function around the same old d-pad system, which revolves around movement through space, which is why the defensive system revolves around chasing the ball like a pack of headless chickens.

The game is always running, and this directly determines the number of animations/precision which can be implemented into the game.

I miss the old responsiveness of the d-pad versions of PES, and in my opinion the only way that you can have a responsive analog based video game with *real* manual passing, is if the left analog stick determines responsive and precise things that have nothing to do with the direction that the ball carrier is looking at nor with movement that affects your position on the pitch.

So anyways, like you, I really cannot see how perfecting a shit execution should be described as something that requires skill to master. I mean, it requires some skill, but I would never describe PES11 as a hardcore video game, in my opinion it is very simplistic and dumbed down.

@shaun7

I agree about more directions, at times the shooting can feel stiff and no matter where you aim it can go in a specific direction. I think the analog could be utilised much more for shooting, ie using the analog to add more backspin and top spin which would result in shots of more varying trajectory.

I would love a system with a full 360 ratio for shooting, but the key thing here is how would that take stats into account? I agree more user input is needed despite my love for the current system.

REAL MANUAL...... Would only improve the player individuality. But you cannot have real manual if the entire capacity of movement of the left analog stick cannot be used to affect little differences in accordance to just one direction: north, south, east, west, north-east, north-west, south-east, south-west.

If directing the left analog stick towards the west, without the assistance of any shoulder button, is enough to determine that the ball carrier will literally look towards the west.... as a result it is impossible to have manual passing or manual shooting.

In my opinion, real manual passing should be about,

(1st) having a total of eight generic directions, not directions of movement, but directions of visual perspective: north, south, east, west, north-east, north-west, south-east, south-west.

(2nd) directing the left analog stick, without the assistance of one of the shoulder buttons, diagonally towards the south-east: would not determine that the ball carrier will literally look towards the south-east.

(2nd) directing the left analog stick without the assistance of one of the shoulder buttons, not determining the direction that the ball carrier is looking at.

(3rd) directing the left analog stick towards the south-east without the assistance of the shoulder button, and then tapping the passing button when the ball carrier looks towards the north: the ball carrier is looking towards the north and suddenly passes the ball, not literally towards the south-east, not literally towards the north, just right between the two.

(3rd) therefore looking towards the north and passing the ball towards the east: the player would pass the ball, not literally towards the north, not literally towards the east, just right in between.

(3rd) therefore looking towards the north and passing the ball towards the south-east: the player would pass the ball closer to the east. The range of movement between east and south determining subtle differences in terms of passing directions.

(4th) as a result the range of passing directions in accordance to just one generic direction (north, south, east, west, north-east, north-west, south-east, south-west) would be much more precise. And also, as a result, heel-passes would need to be performed differently, and with players who have the ability.

(5th) the bottom line with such a system, is that a player like Xavi Hernandez would have much more passing animations than the average player, because the entire capacity of movement of the left analog stick would function in accordance to just one direction.

The bottom line is that with the current game, you can only use a fraction of the capacity of movement of the left analog stick in order to determine the direction of the pass, and as a result, the player individuality in terms of passing the ball, is only determined by a fraction of the capacity of movement of the left analog stick; how much skill and player individuality can you implement into such a limited space?

As a result, the player individuality is not really manual and it's not really substantial, it works automatically; passes are laser guided by something that has little or nothing to do with your ability as a gamer.

 

[Ali]

Just checked the main blog for the first time in ages. The most recent post with the quotes from magazines etc sounds very promising. Of course, we've heard it all before.... but still.

 

[shaun7]

I only heard many positive reviews before pes 11. Right before pes 10 and 09, the previews were mixed rather than 100% positive like they are this year SO FAR. But yeah, it's better if we wait and see because I DO NOT TRUST PREVIEWS AND REVIEWS.

 

[abu97]

Jon Murphy did say pro 12 will be reliving ps2 days so, who knows, for once it'll be pes 4,5 or 6. Also, Adamneaves will be interviewing him this week so lets hope and wait

 

[Sabatasso]

If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.

But as long as it's fun, I won't complain. I had fun with PES 2011 too, but mostly when friends and a lot of beer was involved.

 

[Timbone]

People are saying that the shooting is pretty good
then explain this, why is it that instead of volleying when the ball gets
to the end of the box after a corner kick, every single player even with a technique of 1, does a scissors kick?

 

[brado380]

Well, obviously, I am certain that PES2012 is going to suck. They have probably reinvented some of the game, but have ignored the usual and game breaking flaws. You'll see.

But I will happily eat my own words if the game turns out great, nothing will make me happier to be honest. But at least I won't be disappointed this time around, when the game annoys the living shit out of me after a week and I desperately try to tweak it into a play-worthy condition.

i bet the names are going to be gay again aswell :realmad:

 

[abu97]

People are saying that the shooting is pretty good
then explain this, why is it that instead of volleying when the ball gets
to the end of the box after a corner kick, every single player even with a technique of 1, does a scissors kick?

Don't you mean a shot technique of 1

 

[Timbone]

Don't you mean a shot technique of 1

Yeah thats right
I personally think the attacking is ok
Its just the defending that needs a complete overhaul

 

[louboutins60]

thank for you !

 

[firestorm79]

the absolute worst thing of all, which will kick our dicks right in, is that not only will there be crappy bugs and gameplay ruining glitches, but what little they got right from the previous year won't be kept in it let alone imrpoved upon...

that's the problem with the pes series - they don't understand the notion of 'building on a good foundation'. If each year they worked on what went wrong the previous year instead of trying to come up with a whole new set of fucking cheap gimmicks - which they'll get wrong anyway - we'd all be having a very different conversation right now...

 

[holland]

Do not expect too much. we'll just be disappointed if it does not match expectations. I'm sure PES 2012 must be very exciting