This must have been mentioned before but I can't find it. In PES, if Dean Windass and Thierry Henry were chasing a ball, there might be a slight difference in speed but not as much as there would be realistically. I felt the latest PES especially took away some of the speed differences - I'm not sure if this was intentional, but the super fast players SHOULD be noticeably faster in my opinion.
More difference in player speed
- Thread starter deadfrog
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CryingGallas
Registered User
Yeh that's what Iv'e seen as well! People like John O'Shea catching up with Walcott in a chase for the ball! It has to be sorted!
iamcanadianeh
Registered User
Keep in mind that there is a good reason for this and that the reasoning behind this has nothing to do with cheating. In past versions it has ruined the game that some players with high speed are able to outrun everyone else, because human players will exploit this to no end, especially online. The reason Konami did this is not to cheat (why in the heck would they care if the AI win or lose?), but because they want to force players to use more of a passing game, and have less unstoppable runs being the gamebreakers. Is that so bad? So, just keep that in mind, because their intentions, I believe, were for the good of the game, not mindless or with cheating in mind (again, that allegation is just an embarassing misunderstanding of what the developers had in mind IMO).
The real solution however, IMO, isn't to make certain players faster, but to introduce short term stamina as an attribute, so that Walcott might be faster but you can't continue to dribble with him to no end without him losing some speed or technique the longer he continues to try to run.
KONAMI - In my opinion, this is the kind of suggestion that you need to take with a grain of salt. There is clearly a problem, but be careful with what solution is implemented - it could cause more harm than good, especially for online play!
PEACE
The real solution however, IMO, isn't to make certain players faster, but to introduce short term stamina as an attribute, so that Walcott might be faster but you can't continue to dribble with him to no end without him losing some speed or technique the longer he continues to try to run.
KONAMI - In my opinion, this is the kind of suggestion that you need to take with a grain of salt. There is clearly a problem, but be careful with what solution is implemented - it could cause more harm than good, especially for online play!
PEACE
shaun7
Registered User
^What are you saying? I cannot agree sorry.
Also I totally agree with the short stamina thing you mentioned.
BTW I am listing the bad things only about pes 09. But it's because I want it improved. So sorry if it's annoying
Excactly the opposite of what you said. In pes 09 the defending is worse that in pes 6 or 5. Speed has nothing to do with it and speed can be defended with well timed tackles and compact defending. In pes 09 these defending tactics were not present. While in pes 5 especially, even though the speed difference was greater, the defending was like 80* better than pes 09 and the most important thing of all. YOU FELT IN CONTROL (IN PES 5), WHILE IN PES 09 YOU DIDN'T FEEL THE CONTROL OVER YOUR TEAM BECAUSE THERE'S TOO MUCH AI INVOLVMENT.
Also I totally agree with the short stamina thing you mentioned.
BTW I am listing the bad things only about pes 09. But it's because I want it improved. So sorry if it's annoying
So maybe lessen the effect for online play or something in the same way as some racing games allow cars in second place to move slightly faster to catch up. Either that or pick teams with quick full backs!
Personally, I play PES more offline then on, and I want it to be as realistic as possible - part of that realism is having fast players employed in roles where their speed is used to effect. If I have Ronaldo or Messi on the wing, they're there so they can skin the defenders exactly as they do in real life.
The stamina suggestion is a good one.
Personally, I play PES more offline then on, and I want it to be as realistic as possible - part of that realism is having fast players employed in roles where their speed is used to effect. If I have Ronaldo or Messi on the wing, they're there so they can skin the defenders exactly as they do in real life.
The stamina suggestion is a good one.
zangerbone
Registered User
I'd like it, if say a player had 99 stat in top speed, they would be like Usain Bolt
Or there abouts
Or there abouts
iamcanadianeh
Registered User
As long as everyone understands why they made it the way they did...
I played previous versions where all I ever did was pass to Henry and run by everyone. Too easy! This year's version is better in this way, though I agree that defending is also less effective, so it's a toss up.
My point is that Konami have to be careful when reading these comments, not to take things too literally and listen to what everyone is saying without considering the big picture. It could result in some big problems in my opinion, and moreover, ultimately Konami are the ones who are able to test these things if they implement changes, so... What I'm saying to Konami is simply that:
A.) I understand why it is the way it is.
B.) Be careful if you do make the suggested changes that it doesn't result in players who are too unstoppable. I think players with high dribble speed and accuracy are already way too effective in PES 09 on top player, so... That's really where I'm coming from on this.
Personally I see how certain players not being able to outrun others is unrealistic, but I also want a game that isn't all about storming up the wing with Walcott. There's so much more to football than that, and again, one solution is to have running with the ball more draining on stamina and also to add short term stamina. In any sport there is a clear distinction between short term (fast twitch) and long term stamina (slow twitch muscles), so it would make sense for it to be in the game too.
I played previous versions where all I ever did was pass to Henry and run by everyone. Too easy! This year's version is better in this way, though I agree that defending is also less effective, so it's a toss up.
My point is that Konami have to be careful when reading these comments, not to take things too literally and listen to what everyone is saying without considering the big picture. It could result in some big problems in my opinion, and moreover, ultimately Konami are the ones who are able to test these things if they implement changes, so... What I'm saying to Konami is simply that:
A.) I understand why it is the way it is.
B.) Be careful if you do make the suggested changes that it doesn't result in players who are too unstoppable. I think players with high dribble speed and accuracy are already way too effective in PES 09 on top player, so... That's really where I'm coming from on this.
Personally I see how certain players not being able to outrun others is unrealistic, but I also want a game that isn't all about storming up the wing with Walcott. There's so much more to football than that, and again, one solution is to have running with the ball more draining on stamina and also to add short term stamina. In any sport there is a clear distinction between short term (fast twitch) and long term stamina (slow twitch muscles), so it would make sense for it to be in the game too.
byrnie05
Registered User
You can't balance real-life football to help out the slow guys against the sprinters, so why should PES do the same?
If you're a good player, outright pace against you won't necessarily mean getting beaten every game. It's just more cheating on behalf of the computer.
As for Henry running by everyone. Well, he used to do that a lot in real life, so PES should reflect speed differences again. If your defender is too slow, play someone else there or play differently.
If you're a good player, outright pace against you won't necessarily mean getting beaten every game. It's just more cheating on behalf of the computer.
As for Henry running by everyone. Well, he used to do that a lot in real life, so PES should reflect speed differences again. If your defender is too slow, play someone else there or play differently.
RAMAXWY
Registered User
totally agree and this is why the biggest problem i have with some or most of the suggestions people make to in their opinion improve the game is dependant on what they think is wrong which doesn't have to be the case.
speed is a gift that some players have and they use it when the opportunity is there but if you implement it the way some people want it then you are right you will have them passing it too the fast winger and make him run all day and that's not football.
when the opportunity presents itself then his speed should count and no slow poke should be able to catch up.
but their must be a difference between just running to catch the ball and dribbling with the ball at top speed.
HENRY for example pushes the ball a few meters in front off him and passed the defender because he knows that the burst off speed he has will result in him reaching the ball again before most defenders.
most speedy players use this tactic but intelligent defenders keep their distance and will and can reach the ball before him if he still tried it.
the freedom they have to give you as a defender must also be their for you to decide how you deal with such players too just close his options down but not getting too close for him too beat you with his burst of speed.
faking like you are about to attack then taking a step back and see how he reacts.
if KONAMIi can implement all of this then one on one battles will be incredible
the rare players like MESSI who can dribble at high speed with the ball and who are agile enough to cut,burst,stop,fake and burst again are just that RARE.
THE BEST DEFENSE against such a player is too not make him receive the ball at all or to close him down with two players fast when he does and still the first one is the best option and its the one CHELSEA used very well.
but again i think that if KONAMI can't find the right balance it will favor the speedy players too much and i think that will hurt the game not all speedy players are like MESSY but you do get that feeling at the moment THAT THEY ARE.
most of them are like HENRY ( PUSHING IT IN FRONT A FEW METERS AND GETTING IT FAST) for example LENNON and WALLCOT.
others complain that passing and the trapping is too difficult well if you ask me if they make it easier we might as well stop playing the game.
why are playmakers like RIQUELME and KAKA worth so much in a team because passing the ball effortlessly in top football is difficult you have to react fast, have great vision or you get closed down.( ask SPAIN they just experienced it first hand against the U.S.A ).
the animations are bad it takes a lot away from the experience you are watching or playing a real match.
the automatic sliding just has to go it f*** up the game.
the good goalkeepers usually hold on to the ball or hit it to the side of their goal rarely do they hit it to an upcoming attacker. it can happen but then it has to be an exceptionally shot like from a GERRARD when he's smacked it good.
players cross the ball too easy with their weaker foot, it's their weaker foot so if shooting at short range is a problem then crossing must be nearly impossible.
attackers have a huge advantage compared to defenders especially what taking up good positions.
in BAL i want to see a few less greaner fields because smaller teams don't all have great stadiums i most work myself up to that experience.
just to sum up a few of the things that bother me.
RAMAXWY
Registered User
that's just the problem at the moment the freedom to play (defend )differently is not there and not every fast player is MESSY some of them just use their pace well so if your opponent can master that skill than that's a little more exceptable when he beats u with a nice move and blows by you but when he just presses the speed button and still holds on to the ball effortlessly that's not football and just wrong.
still their must be a way to counter it even when it really becomes a skill , is implemented correctly and difficult to pull off every time you must have the total freedom to read what he's about to do and act on you anticipation and ofcourse it will go wrong a few times but you will also get it right a few times and i'd rather have it like that .
my failure or succes to intercept the ball should also rely on me and not only the stats ( or a button ).
shaun7
Registered User
I agree but however you were talking about pes where you could run with Henry because in pes 5 that was impossible. Personally pes 5 for me had the best balance between attack and defence.
Also the abilities need to effect the game's player more because certain abilities aren't as important as speed for example.
I’ve noticed that if I had a speedy attacking player it's hard to out run the AI's DEF I’m ok with that sometimes < but why is it when I try to catch up an AI's fast player with my DEF almost all of the time I get out-runned even if the speed deffrence is not too hight.
ezio
Registered User
I agree. I have been playing it agian recently and the balance between attack and defense seems very good.
byrnie05
Registered User
Another speed-related issue; you're running onto a long-ball with your striker and pretty much neck and neck with the defender, but all of a sudden your player stops running to turn around and watch the ball. Not exactly fair when the computer defender can run onto it, control it and be gone without stopping to track the ball.
that happened to me too... but with my defenders, and they get easy goals that way. :realmad:
liverpoolsco
Registered User
This is odd since that used to be a complaint that was in old PES games. I remember that maybe PES5 or PES6 made the readjustment of the speed of players reletive to each other. So if you actually broke through the defence you wouldn't be caught with someone who is quick such as Henry. Getting this balance back is needed. Its too often that people like Messi, Henry, Ronaldo, Rooney all amazingly break away and score solo goals without anyone being able to touch them. You need it so that defenders can make a surge to get back if you get them into the right positions and you can have breakaways sometimes as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WywowkFwtSA
These situations are possible but you should be able to at least be competitive and have a chance!