New PES 2012 actual full game gameplay wow

[Ali]

Well, Amateur, I'm always gonna disagree with you with regards to whether you can play patient football or not.

In all your posts, it sounds like you want total control over everything that happens. This is just not possible. Think about when you play real football. When you're in posession of the ball, you can't control whether your teammates run forwards, backwards, sideways.... or do a little dance... or whatever. In real football , you don't always create your own choices, your teammates and the opposition make those choices available to you. PES is no different. Yes, it is very simulated at times, but it's the same general principle.

You mention the phrase "spoon feeding" quite a bit. Which is a bit extreme IMO. Put it this way: Say you're having a bowl of soup, you can either pick up the bowl and throw the soup in your face, or you can drink the soup directly from the bowl...... or.... you can use the spoon to direct the soup towards your mouth. So, technically, you are being spoon fed, but you control where the spoon goes..... there you go.... that's PES in a nutshell

What console do you play on? Because if you're on ps3, and you do decide to get PES 2012, then add me and I'll give your arse a kicking :lol:

 

[StringerBell]

Well, Amateur, I'm always gonna disagree with you with regards to whether you can play patient football or not.

In all your posts, it sounds like you want total control over everything that happens. This is just not possible. Think about when you play real football. When you're in posession of the ball, you can't control whether your teammates run forwards, backwards, sideways.... or do a little dance... or whatever. In real football , you don't always create your own choices, your teammates and the opposition make those choices available to you. PES is no different. Yes, it is very simulated at times, but it's the same general principle.

You mention the phrase "spoon feeding" quite a bit. Which is a bit extreme IMO. Put it this way: Say you're having a bowl of soup, you can either pick up the bowl and throw the soup in your face, or you can drink the soup directly from the bowl...... or.... you can use the spoon to direct the soup towards your mouth. So, technically, you are being spoon fed, but you control where the spoon goes..... there you go.... that's PES in a nutshell

What console do you play on? Because if you're on ps3, and you do decide to get PES 2012, then add me and I'll give your arse a kicking :lol:

I'll attest to the ass kicking part :no:

 

[Macheda]

Well, Amateur, I'm always gonna disagree with you with regards to whether you can play patient football or not.

In all your posts, it sounds like you want total control over everything that happens. This is just not possible. Think about when you play real football. When you're in posession of the ball, you can't control whether your teammates run forwards, backwards, sideways.... or do a little dance... or whatever. In real football , you don't always create your own choices, your teammates and the opposition make those choices available to you. PES is no different. Yes, it is very simulated at times, but it's the same general principle.

You mention the phrase "spoon feeding" quite a bit. Which is a bit extreme IMO. Put it this way: Say you're having a bowl of soup, you can either pick up the bowl and throw the soup in your face, or you can drink the soup directly from the bowl...... or.... you can use the spoon to direct the soup towards your mouth. So, technically, you are being spoon fed, but you control where the spoon goes..... there you go.... that's PES in a nutshell

What console do you play on? Because if you're on ps3, and you do decide to get PES 2012, then add me and I'll give your arse a kicking :lol:

So true, people have to realise football simulation games will always only be a simulation! Not the real game, if they want anything more than go grab your boots and head outside

 

[Amateur]

Well, Amateur, I'm always gonna disagree with you with regards to whether you can play patient football or not.

In all your posts, it sounds like you want total control over everything that happens. This is just not possible. Think about when you play real football. When you're in posession of the ball, you can't control whether your teammates run forwards, backwards, sideways.... or do a little dance... or whatever. In real football , you don't always create your own choices, your teammates and the opposition make those choices available to you. PES is no different. Yes, it is very simulated at times, but it's the same general principle.

It is very easy to have total control over the game. All it takes is pressing and releasing one button. And the computer reacting in accordance to your command. The gamer would determine where the spoon goes, when the spoon goes, and how the spoon goes, once per pass. Once per pass means that only ONE option would materialize; as opposed to being spoon feed with three different options that have materialized before you even make a decision.

As you may or may not appreciate. There is a very massive difference, between a video game that is ready to give you up to 20 different choices per pass, with only ONE choice actually materializing after you make your decision; and a video game where you have THREE different choices that have ALREADY materialized without your consent.

The video game where only ONE choice becomes a reality, is a video game where the computer would not need ridiculous balancing acts in order to dictate the momentum of the video game. On the other hand. The video game where THREE different choices simultaneously become a reality, is a video game where the computer needs ridiculous balancing acts in order to dictate the momentum of the video game.

There is no point comparing real football to a video game. If I want real football, I watch it on the TV, or I go play some. And regardless of that, there's a massive difference between real football and the pinball mess that PES11 is.

I'm not talking about unrealistic perfection. I'm talking about the difference between a sim game and an arcade game. PES is not a sim game. PES is an arcade game with nice graphics.

Bottom line. PES and FIFA are dumb and outdated arcade games. I do not agree with your opinion and I find your argument weak.

You mention the phrase "spoon feeding" quite a bit. Which is a bit extreme IMO. Put it this way: Say you're having a bowl of soup, you can either pick up the bowl and throw the soup in your face, or you can drink the soup directly from the bowl...... or.... you can use the spoon to direct the soup towards your mouth. So, technically, you are being spoon fed, but you control where the spoon goes..... there you go.... that's PES in a nutshell

That's why PES and FIFA are stupid and outdated. You cannot have automatic tactical play, because tactical play is essential to midfield battles. With PES, you are being spoon fed, but you control where the spoon goes, but you also happen to play the video game from a wide view perspective..... if you do not know where the spoon should go.... you are pretty fucking stupid..... that's PES in a nutshell.

The tactical game is irrelevant. And the game is mostly decided by the gamer whom is better at scoring the most goals by whatever means necessary. That's cool for an end to end sport such as BASKETBALL. But Football is not exactly end to end stuff, it is a tactical sport, and PES and FIFA fail miserably in that respect, due to the fact that you always know where the spoon should go, because it's fucking obvious.

What console do you play on? Because if you're on ps3, and you do decide to get PES 2012, then add me and I'll give your arse a kicking :lol:

It would not prove anything at all. And furthermore, I do not think you are capable of kicking my arse at PES12. Particularly with the new right analog stick gimmick. But yeah, we should play a few games when the game comes out, and if I bother buying it.

So true, people have to realise football simulation games will always only be a simulation! Not the real game, if they want anything more than go grab your boots and head outside

Well that's where you are wrong. PES is not even a sim game, PES is an arcade game: very massive difference between the two genres. And one you should understand if you want to discuss PES. It's an arcade game. It's not a sim game.

 

[Ali]

To be honest, Amateur, I really don't want to get drawn into another long debate with you, I feel it would reach a point where we start getting angry, and I'd rather not go there again, however.....

It would not prove anything at all. And furthermore, I do not think you are capable of kicking my arse at PES12. Particularly with the new right analog stick gimmick. But yeah, we should play a few games when the game comes out, and if I bother buying it.

I'm not saying it will prove anything, just want to see if you're actually any good. So bring it on bitch!

PS. I just had the most frustrating game ever!! I won 1-0 in the last minute, but my players were playing like fucking Amateurs. I got about 9 yellows and 2 reds out of sheer frustration.

 

[Amateur]

I'm not saying it will prove anything, just want to see if you're actually any good. So bring it on bitch!

PS. I just had the most frustrating game ever!! I won 1-0 in the last minute, but my players were playing like fucking Amateurs. I got about 9 yellows and 2 reds out of sheer frustration.

I have always been very good at PES. And if I wasn't I would say it. I don't give a shit. I honestly am completely unconcerned about how my ability would match against the best of players. And I do not criticize the game the same way that shit gamers criticize the game.

Bottom line. It's a dumb and simplistic video game. Anyone with a decent football experience and a decent gaming experience can be good at PES if they bother with it.

 

[Jonny16]

I mostly agree with Amateur. I also agree with the others too.

I understand that the AI in PES11 is near on ridiculous and I do notice with each match played that it just becomes a quick pass-pass-pass in a zig-zag direction with a one-two thrown in there for good measure, and it works every single time pretty much. I try, for the sake of realism in my own head, to slow down play and draw the AI out, to score a GOOD goal, a REALISTIC goal, to play how the team I am using ACTUALLY plays. (I'm a sucker for realism )

However, I also realise that we shouldn't be the ones to control all 11 players on the team, or even 3 or 4 at once, because that is what gives PES its unpredictability. It's stats driven and it makes each player that little bit unique. Giving us control of what all the players do or don't do just means that we will find all the nooks and cheats, the EASY way to do things, and do it all the time, with every single team, every player.

I don't want to control all the players, I don't want a button to set off a run. I want the AI to realise ITSELF that I want him to make a run, to come back and defend when I am under attack, to try get on the end of crosses, to make overlapping runs. I want Artificial Intelligence, not Artificial Idiocy.

This however does not mean I want my own players to start tackling on their own, or kicking the ball away on their own. Just getting into space, coming back to defend when under attack, and actually attacking productively when I need them to.

 

[Amateur]

I mostly agree with Amateur. I also agree with the others too.

I understand that the AI in PES11 is near on ridiculous and I do notice with each match played that it just becomes a quick pass-pass-pass in a zig-zag direction with a one-two thrown in there for good measure, and it works every single time pretty much. I try, for the sake of realism in my own head, to slow down play and draw the AI out, to score a GOOD goal, a REALISTIC goal, to play how the team I am using ACTUALLY plays. (I'm a sucker for realism )

However, I also realise that we shouldn't be the ones to control all 11 players on the team, or even 3 or 4 at once, because that is what gives PES its unpredictability. It's stats driven and it makes each player that little bit unique. Giving us control of what all the players do or don't do just means that we will find all the nooks and cheats, the EASY way to do things, and do it all the time, with every single team, every player.

I don't want to control all the players, I don't want a button to set off a run. I want the AI to realise ITSELF that I want him to make a run, to come back and defend when I am under attack, to try get on the end of crosses, to make overlapping runs. I want Artificial Intelligence, not Artificial Idiocy.

This however does not mean I want my own players to start tackling on their own, or kicking the ball away on their own. Just getting into space, coming back to defend when under attack, and actually attacking productively when I need them to.

In other words. You do not want to play Football. You want to play Basketball. You want to shot the ball, pass the ball, and cross the ball, without ever thinking about anything tactical, because the AI should REALIZE what you want to do.

So basically. If I am not looking at the TV screen. And I pass the ball towards the north. The AI should REALIZE what I want to do? Even though I am not even looking at the actual TV screen? Correct?

Therefore. The AI must realize what I want to do. Even when I do not know what I want to do. I mean. If I am not looking at the TV screen, I do not know what the fuck is going on in the pitch, and therefore I cannot possibly know what I want to do. This means that if I pass the ball without looking at the TV screen, the AI should automatically REALIZE what I want even though the fact is that I do not even know what I'm doing.

Do you not see how flawed that AI system is?

So how exactly do you play in the midfield? Midfield play consists of countless of players. How the hell does the AI just realizes that you want this player to do this and that other player to do that? The possibilities are endless, for each player in the midfield you could easily have 2 choices, which means that if you have four midfield players you would have a total of 8 different choices to make.

How does the AI just REALIZES that, out of 8 possible choices, you just wanted Player A to run forwards into space, Player B to offer support in that other area, and Player C to do some random thing?

As a result of some epiphany that the AI had. Now you have THREE different choices that have simultaneously materialized. How in the flying fuck did the AI realized that you wanted ONE of those THREE choices?

Picture it like this. I go to Burger King. And I want a cheeseburger with bacon. Yet the AI that is taking care of my order, tells me, that my only possible options are a cheeseburger without bacon, a plain hamburger, or a chicken sandwich. Did the AI just realized what I wanted? Or did the AI just forced THREE different choices that I never even wanted in the first place?

The AI cannot read your mind. The AI cannot realize anything. What the AI can do, is what the AI does when you play CHESS VIDEO GAMES against the computer: the higher the difficulty the better the AI. Yet, the AI never actually FORCES the gamer into choosing one out of three choices. As a gamer you have complete control over everything that you do, yet you can easily notice the difference between easy AI and difficult AI when playing against the computer.

That's Artificial Intelligence. It's something that can function well when it revolves around a structured foundation. CHESS is a structured foundation. MORTAL KOMBAT is a structured foundation. Because the choices that the AI makes, never actually interfere with the choices that you make. Which means that the momentum of the game, is actually determined by the ability of the gamer.

On the other hand. PES has a fucked up foundation. Because the choices that you have are determined by the computer. This means that the computer has the freedom to give you fucked up choices. This means that when the AI makes a mistake for whatever the reason, it obviously affects you. Which is why the Artificial Intelligence cannot actually be Intelligent, due to the fact that the game is helplessly stupid to begin with.

It makes for a decent arcade game, but it can never evolve into an actual sim game. The AI must make a run, the AI must come back and defend, the AI must try to get on the end of crosses, the AI must make overlapping runs; and how the hell do you have tactical mistakes when the AI is supposed to do everything right? Oh I guess the statistics should determine that..... right?

When would the AI decide not to go back and defend? That happens a lot in real football, you know, tactical mistakes, a very regular occurrence in real life football.

If the AI must come back and defend when you are under attack: what would determine when the AI makes a mistake? the AI must determine when the AI makes a mistake? Wait a minute..... Am I watching a movie..... Or playing a video game?

That's stupid. Artificial Intelligence is pretty fucking idiotic if you asked me. It is rather idiotic for the AI to determine when the AI makes a mistake. It's very much Artificial Idiocy, because the concept does not make any sense at all. Football is a tactical sport, where tactical mistakes make all the difference in the world, which is why having a footy "sim" where the AI determines when the AI makes a mistake...... is....... ridiculous.

A lot of people, including yourself, think about "total control" the wrong way. You could essentially control three players at the same time. But it would be very simple to do.

By the way. It was not my intention to personally offend you. So hopefully you won't take this the wrong way. Although I do think your argument is very flawed and lazy.

Just head over evo web for the video looks great managers walking the touchline etc gameplay looks much better

Here's the video:

[youtube]Q51HrHjB1Zk&feature=feedf[/youtube]

I can see a little bit of PES6 in that video. And with the right analog stick gimmick, it should be decent enough.

Though I hope that the genre moves on after PES12 and FIFA12. Things like movement within the space should be possible, when PES13 comes out.

 

[Jonny16]

I don't want to play basketball :/ That was pretty clear, it seems your arguing for the sake of it now.

You can't control other peoples actions in real life so why should you in the game? Yes, the AI is pretty crap, but that's because its not evolved enough in the next gen. The PES games of old are much better than they are now and I don't remember controlling all the players on the field.

The AI needs an overhaul so that it can think for itself and evolve, not giving us the player control of everything.