Antonyc1977
Registered User
Demo 2 has won me over. Best PES for years.
I'm looking forward to Sept 21st.
I'm looking forward to Sept 21st.
PES 2013 Demo 2: Feedback, Impressions, Discussions etc.
- Thread starter abu97
- Start date
Will any mod/admin please take care of this..?
Please exchange your opinions and stop abusing the english language guys.
Amateur
Registered User
I get your point, I do admit that "on paper" it (what I want) does sound a great deal more complicated than what it actually is.
I mean, I make it clear, that two (or three?) years ago I fully acknowledged the fact that PES10 was a shit video game, but I still enjoyed that game a lot, even though it was/is arguably inferior to PES13.
So I'm not suggesting that people who enjoy PES13 are dumb for enjoying a video game that I think is dumb, since taste in video games and films, has very little (or nothing) to do with intelligence as a whole. However, what I can say is that I've simply grown bored of the same old D-PAD game.
Yes: you can hold the left analog stick a direction, make a dead stop or not, and pas the ball in a completely different direction that you're facing.
You can also do the following: Cristiano Ronaldo running with the ball down the flank, and you as a defender needing to press countless different buttons just to stay close on CR7, whereas the only thing that CR7 needs to do is; direct left analog stick, press R2 button, press R1 button, release left analog stick, which is much more simple than the defensive end of the game; direct left analog stick, press the COM pressure button, press the cursor change button, press and hold the R2 button + the short passing button at the same time, double-tap the standing tackle button, tap the sliding tackle button, press the R1 sprint, press the cursor change button yet again, etc, etc.
The game is obviously balanced in favor of the ball carrier, that much is obvious without the necessity of even playing the game, because the amount of things that are needed for dribbling vs the amount of things that are needed for defending: dribbling is extremely simplistic, whereas defending is loaded with button presses. I fail to see how this system is balanced.
Added to the obvious lack of balance control-wise between dribbling vs defending, you also have the fundamental deficiencies of the system itself.
Example: Cristiano Ronaldo running with the ball down the flanks, Cristiano Ronaldo eventually doing the old "cut back" that he has done every single time that he touches the ball, a perfectly timed standing tackle by the defender, and at the end of the day, Cristiano Ronaldo dribbling right through you.
This flaw becomes even more apparent, when a blatantly miss-timed standing tackle, actually comes out looking like a perfect standing tackle, just because the computer decided that it was time for me to get the ball: no real consistency to the system.
I just think the footy sim genre needs to evolve past the shackles of D-PAD control.
With the D-PAD you can run towards obvious directions: north, north-east, north-west, south, south-east, south-west, west, east, and just a little extra in between the mentioned directions.
Dribbling past a defender should not be as simplistic as: running towards the east, suddenly stop, suddenly change direction of movement from east to south, and then press the R1 sprint button.... because on the pitch, this is what happens....
"Cristiano Ronaldo running doing the flanks (towards the east), suddenly stopping, suddenly cutting inside towards the penalty area (towards the south), leaving the defender in the dust 7 times out of 10, irrespective of how the defender times his tackle."
Of course, that blatant flaw is amplified when you play against noobs who like to exploit the obvious flaws: pass the ball to Cristiano Ronaldo (which should be as easy as sending a very simple ground pass; the pass easily reaching the destination 99% of the time), hold the left analog stick, suddenly release the left analog stick, make a dead stop, suddenly run again, make a dead stop again, suddenly run again, a sudden change in running direction, another decrease in speed via the R2 button, and then (yet again) another R1 sprint run, and the defender will loose about 70% of the time.
I just simply prefer a system where the one vs one confrontation between the ball carrier vs the defender, is determined by analog control, rather than a "throw of the dice" which is completely out of your control.
If I can move the ball, three feet in front of the inside of my right foot, five feet in front of the outside of my right foot, etc, etc. And at the same time, direct the standing tackle, three feet in front of the inside of my right foot, five feet in front of the outside of my right foot, etc, etc. Then player individuality would work perfectly well, but without the necessity of overriding my input as a player.
Logically, in order to have such precise analog control, other areas of the game (for example the R2 slow dribble as well as many of the defensive buttons) would need to be about 80% or 100% scripted by the computer. But the important point, is that you would rarely feel like the game just cheated you.
If you enjoy PES13, fair enough, like I mentioned before, I did enjoyed PES10 which was/is arguably a lesser game than PES13. My point is though, that personally, in year 2013, I simply do not see myself playing PES13 enough to justify paying over $50 for a video game that I will barely touch, that old linear D-PAD design simply isn't enjoyable anymore (in my opinion), it's increasingly becoming more of stalemate with each passing year (in my opinion), that's all I'm saying.
I'm not saying that PES13 is particularly bad at what it does, just saying that: has it improved enough at what it does? I don't think so. I personally do not find the PES concept as enjoyable as three years ago, and furthermore, I personally disagree with the direction that the PES franchise has taken with PES12 and PES13: is it an arcade pretending to be a sim-like video game? Is Konami actually trying to make a sim-like video game and PES13 is the best they could achieve? Or has Konami simply gone full arcade?
PES13 feels very unfinished to me, almost like Konami doesn't have a definite vision/direction for the long term. I mean, to me, PES11 before all the post-release patches, felt like a video game with more definite or stronger sense of direction: then came PES12, and now PES13, and I'm a little confused about where it is that Konami is going with their franchise. It's ridiculous to think that an eight direction video game, if you play it today, still feels more "organic" and more "unpredictable" than PES13 (of course, my opinion).
again i think youre over exaggerating a bit
defending 1v1 really isnt that unbalanced as you make it sound. im perfectly comfortable jockeying with R2, using A contain to get into position, tapping team mate contain a few times when needed, and double tapping A to tackle. it's really not as un balanced as your making out.
howwever i do i agree about cursor changing, as anyone will know that ingeneral is oftenannoying to work. but its really not as bad as you make it, and like ive said, i think the majority of the problem could be solved with individual player instructions and then more indepth team instructions, like fm, so my players know just how i ant them to behave.
i have an important question here, have you played full manual on demo2? as in, taping your manual button down so it is actually full manual always? because you keep talking about 99% acurate easy passes to forwards, when in manual this is not the case at all. in fact because youre in conrol of aiming fully you are very wary of passing to a midfielder if an opposition player is somwhere inbetween the pass, as it is very easy to mess up and get it intercepted. so, have you played full manual ?
defending 1v1 really isnt that unbalanced as you make it sound. im perfectly comfortable jockeying with R2, using A contain to get into position, tapping team mate contain a few times when needed, and double tapping A to tackle. it's really not as un balanced as your making out.
howwever i do i agree about cursor changing, as anyone will know that ingeneral is oftenannoying to work. but its really not as bad as you make it, and like ive said, i think the majority of the problem could be solved with individual player instructions and then more indepth team instructions, like fm, so my players know just how i ant them to behave.
i have an important question here, have you played full manual on demo2? as in, taping your manual button down so it is actually full manual always? because you keep talking about 99% acurate easy passes to forwards, when in manual this is not the case at all. in fact because youre in conrol of aiming fully you are very wary of passing to a midfielder if an opposition player is somwhere inbetween the pass, as it is very easy to mess up and get it intercepted. so, have you played full manual ?
SteEagles27
Registered User
the funny thing is their are people out their that will play this game solid for 12 months that will not even consider giving PES a go.
SteEagles27
Registered User
can we make a FIFA 13 demo discussion thread on here?
i want to make 1 but am a bit like erm shall i
they have a thread for PES 13 demo on the EA fifa 13 forum
i want to make 1 but am a bit like erm shall i
they have a thread for PES 13 demo on the EA fifa 13 forum
Phatmann
HGW XX/7
Fifa 13 Demo discussion is taking place here: http://www.pesgaming.com/showthread.php?t=89918
Amateur
Registered User
Mate, you really cannot use YOUR OPINION, in order to refute a fact.
When dribbling: direct left analog stick, R2 slow dribble, R1 sprint, that's all.
When defending: direct left analog stick, R2 + 'x' button in order to trigger a specific "squared-up" defensive animation, cursor change button, R1 sprint, the '□' in order to trigger COM defensive pressure, double-tap the 'x' button in order to trigger a simple standing tackle, the 'o' button in order to trigger a sliding tackle.
Dribbling = 3 buttons.
Defending = 7 buttons (more than twice when compared to dribbling).
Tell me: is this fact? Or am I making this up?
Is it not a FACT..... That dribbling controls are far more simplistic than defensive controls? It is a fact.
Whether you think I am exaggerating or not, in no way, devalues or refutes the fact that dribbling controls vs defensive controls, are not balanced at all. You do not agree? It doesn't matter, the fact remains that dribbling consists of just 3 buttons, whereas defending consists of 7 buttons. As far as I'm concerned, it is unbalanced on paper, and it is also unbalanced on the pitch.
That sounds great when you say it like that, but unfortunately, it is not that simple.
The truth is, that the defensive system, is not intelligent enough, to adapt to the type of thing that you want. If it was as simple as you think, do you not think that EA Sports would have implemented that type of thing by now?
Yes I have played full manual: in fact, I have tested every setting that the game offers.
When you play on "full manual" -- passes are still very assisted. It is impossible to have "manual passes" when the direction of dribbling and the direction of passing, are simultaneously determined by simply directing the left analog stick *without* the assistance of any other button. As simple as that.
Yes, "full manual" is logically less assisted than the other settings; but, does it offer any advantage over "assisted passing"? No.
This was one of the main annoyances of both PES11 and PES12, the fact that "manual passing" did not offered any advantages over "assisted passing" -- this flaw has not been fixed with PES13; why? Because directing the left analog stick *without* the assistance of any other button, simultaneously determines both the direction of dribbling and the direction of passing -- FACT.
At the end of the day, I think that "full manual passing" is fairly easy, once you get over the very brief learning curve, it is very easy to pass the ball from one end of the pitch to the other. Wait for PES13 to come out, wait for the honeymoon period to wear out (should take about one or two months), and after that, the same thing that happened with PES12 will also happen with PES13: people will stop playing the game, because fundamentally, it is such a shallow system, that after one or two months people will just loose interest.
- stop acting like its a fact when its not. your intial statement was defender was to complicated, i disagreed. it doesnt matter if defending has more buttons, im perfectly capable of using those defending buttons and feel its not complicated at all.
- thats not good logic. there are a lot of things ea couldve implemented but dont. a basic mechanic like player movement, for one. BASIC individual tactics would certainly not be hard to implement. aka, pes had this 6 years ago with simple arrows and defensive workrate. how is stuff like that hard to implement ? tell how often to run, where to run, where not to run, something simple like drawing out an oval/circle on the tactics board to show what zone a player should work in....
- yes, passes are full manual. i aim somehwere, it goes there. who said manual gives an advanatage over assisted? because it doesnt. and so what ? im not getting into that, i dont really need to, its a simple arguement - assisted is the problem for this arguement, not manual.
- thats not good logic. there are a lot of things ea couldve implemented but dont. a basic mechanic like player movement, for one. BASIC individual tactics would certainly not be hard to implement. aka, pes had this 6 years ago with simple arrows and defensive workrate. how is stuff like that hard to implement ? tell how often to run, where to run, where not to run, something simple like drawing out an oval/circle on the tactics board to show what zone a player should work in....
- yes, passes are full manual. i aim somehwere, it goes there. who said manual gives an advanatage over assisted? because it doesnt. and so what ? im not getting into that, i dont really need to, its a simple arguement - assisted is the problem for this arguement, not manual.
compared to pes, pretty poor. very arcade, no momemtum or player weight - they run hover in circles everywhere - tempo is far to fast
as a stand a lone game with no comparisions? pretty good. ball physics are good, the ball feels like its got some weight to it, manual passing has improved a lot (one touches etc, tho not as goopd as pes manual). player body context with other players i feel is very, very good (impact engine) and just feels very contextual and it works.
to me it just feels like a tightened up fifa 12
ill be getting both, fifa for clubs and pes for everything else.
myzer2005
Registered User
I just feel like I cannot play the beautiful game in Fifa... The players don't feel like they have control over the ball. The pitches feel really small and the Commentary is bad, all they go on about is how a certain player being on the transfer list or being left out and wanting the team to lose lol. But it is the demo I guess so commentary obviously isn't going to be the best.
I do prefer the chipping system in Fifa, the player seems to actually get some lift on the ball rather than in PES where the ball would just go into the keepers arms 80% of the time.
Little things like some Arsenal player receiving a yellow card for moving forward prematurely in the wall for a free kick are good, but I can't help but think it was more random scripted than the cpu actually doing it on purpose to waste time etc.
But it all boils down to the actual gameplay, PES is far superior, and that isn't a bias view either I always get both games each year but Fifa has been going downhill since 10 in my opinion. I can actually play good football in Pro Evo, Fifa is more like the casual gamers football game - Pick up play and then put down again after a few games against mates. Where PES is more for the hardcore fans of footie sims, play for hours, build and edit teams, stadiums etc and enjoy the game alone or against friends.
Disclaimer: These are the opinions of myself and may or may not represent the opinions of other people.
When I first tried FIFA, I thought the same - dribbling was too over sophisticated including holding up play, pitch was too small for good movement. But that is football, in PES it is too easy to spread the ball around because of the lack of strength in PES and that is one area that FIFA beats PES, strength ratio or pitch dimension. Also, commentary is way better than PES but quite annoying at times
SteEagles27
Registered User
PES 13 blows FIFA 12s gameplay away. yes that is true
the more i play the ps3 version of this FIFA 13 demo the more i realise that FIFA 13 is nothing like FIFA 12 at all. its much better.
as much as it pains me to say this FIFA 13 is Fuc**ing Brilliant
i hated the crossing in FIFA 10 11 12 but now all of a sudden i can cross the ball normally in this game
its gonna be close this year i cannot wait to see the reviews
the more i play the ps3 version of this FIFA 13 demo the more i realise that FIFA 13 is nothing like FIFA 12 at all. its much better.
as much as it pains me to say this FIFA 13 is Fuc**ing Brilliant
i hated the crossing in FIFA 10 11 12 but now all of a sudden i can cross the ball normally in this game
its gonna be close this year i cannot wait to see the reviews
Amateur
Registered User
I can act like it's a fact, precisely because it is indeed a fact. Dribbling consists of 3 buttons, defending consists of 7 buttons: my initial statement is irrelevant.
Yes, I do think that defending is very over-complicated, and at the same time I also think, that defending is very easy. However, my opinion, in no way changes the fact that 3 buttons vs 7 buttons, is not balanced, not balanced on paper, and (in my opinion) not balanced on the pitch either.
Yes that's a sensible and interesting point, but 6 years ago PES was eight directional, whereas today PES is 360 degrees of movement.
My point being: if you implement that in-depth tactical system, into either PES13 or FIFA13, the defensive system of the game will not be able to contain the many passing angles that will result out of better (more accurate) tactical movement, because the defensive system still revolves around the very same eight directional mechanics.
Basically, you want to implement concepts that worked when the game was eight directional, fully assuming that these eight directional concepts will also work perfectly well when implemented into a game that is not eight directional. That's the reason why -even though it sounds like an obvious improvement that would be easy to implement- neither Konami nor EA Sports have implemented an advanced tactical system into their respective franchises....
In order to implement an in-depth tactical system without breaking the game, you need to change the whole foundation of the game. You cannot add more directions of passing, more directions of dribbling/running, more directions of shooting, and then expect that old eight directional concepts will be compatible with 360 degree passing: it is not that simple.
Konami and EA Sports cut corners by implementing 360 degree passing, 360 degree dribbling/running, 360 degree shooting, into the game, but without actually changing the eight directional foundation of the game, which is why the FIFA franchise has barely changed since 2010.
They know they need to change the game from the ground up, but knowing that they can still sell the same old shit, well they prefer easy money.
PES13's "manual passing" is not close to being manual, and yes, it should offer an advantage due to the simple fact that you should have more control/freedom over the game.
At the end of the day, the most important thing is whether or not you genuinely enjoy the game. If you enjoy it, you should buy it. However, if you find yourself trying too hard to like the game (my case), then maybe you should look at other options.
Now that I tried both demos (FIFA and PES) I'm really looking forward to the 21th sep. Yes, PES won me over this year. I have so much more fun in the PES demo then in the FIFA counterpart. I played LOADS of FIFA 12 and feeling tired of the game. The FIFA 13 version feels just like the 12, but more polished. The speed in the demo of FIFA 13 is horrific, the game feels even more arcade and no player weight. The pitch is to small and it feels like I'm playing NHL or something, no slow build up, just forth and back in such a high tempo. It's actually feels like the game need no midfielders. Guess some like it that way though. It's just my personal opinion and I'm not biased at all (just my personal opinion). I've played FIFA for the last couple of years and had fun, but this year it will be PES.
Amateur
Registered User
Just played about one hour of FIFA13. Can't say I'm impressed by anything really. I had a bit of fun with a few of the dribbling tricks, but besides that, the defensive system is still over-loaded with button presses, midfield play remains as nonexistent as ever (actually no, because FIFA08 offered pretty decent midfield play), passing the ball is way too repetitive to take the "manual" tag seriously, many faces (Balotelli's for example) are ridiculously bad even by FIFA standards, and worst of all, I'm not impressed by the animations, the main selling point of FIFA, but I feel this is more because PES sucks at it rather than because FIFA actually has good animations.
I think the 2K NBA games shit all over FIFA and PES: better animations, better player individuality, better gameplay, simply a much better sports simulation.
A positive for FIFA13 though (in my opinion), is that shooting actually feels "manual" enough to justify the "manual" tag. You can direct the left analog stick towards the north-east, and the ball will go (more or less) towards the north-east corner of the posts, as opposed to the north-east corner flag.
I can see why many people prefer FIFA over PES, but a lot of people make it sound like FIFA13 is head and shoulders above PES13, when that's not the case at all.
I mean, I can't see why FIFA13 is a better game than PES13, I think both are very similar at the core, and I cannot find an objective reason to choose one over the other, as I cannot see any technological edge to either game. FIFA13 offers better shooting and better animations, as well as more dribbling gimmicks. PES13 offers less repetitive passing and more varied tactics, as well as more individualism in terms of team individuality.
I still need to give a bit more time to both PES13 and FIFA13, but so far, I'm just disappointed by both offerings.