Pes6 > pes2012

[ArvD*]

PES6 > PES2012

I was a HEAVY PES gamer until PES2008 graced our presence!

After PES12, i found myself back on my PC playing PES6 to see the progress....

Bare in Mind...
I have Kit-Server, Stadium-Server and the starting line ups for season 2007/2008...
In Game Menu's / Music / Commentary all upgraded from the game default...thankfully!

Graphics...
Thanks to the above...graphics are sharp and clear...crips...
You can tell players appearances from any camera angel... - HD versions look blurred and nasty in comparison
Camera Angles - how i forgot one was able to change the angle of rotation! - something removed for ALL HD versions!?!
Replays - Nice! no slow downs, screen tearing or frame skipping...- HD versions! SOOOO bad...the replay quality is un watch-able at times!
Then there are the replay views...the HD versions of the game introduce 2 new and useless angles that show the ball or grass 70% of the time...
and if you get a good angle on it, the frame rate is shocking...

Player Animations/Control -
basic...but doesn't feel awkward...
the player does as he is told...PES12 feels very lagy and heavy now in comparison...
passing - how i forgot the range of passing and the change in tempo you can create...passes zip along to roughly intended results...
when you make a bad pass, its because YOU made a bad pass...not the hideous PES12 scripting saying..."nope, not this time"
and, through balls work...1-2's work...crossing works...

i could go on all day...thats just some brief points...

but after playing PES12...then PES6...
I find my self asking...what the hell has been going on since 2006?!

Why does a 6 year old game on OLD GEN...still feel more solid, more finished than a game that's had 5 years to improve?!

Shove pretty much 99% of the game content from PES12...
shove them into PES6 engine...with a few animation/graphics tweeks...
BANG...There is a game i would be happy with...
Or a game which should of been PES2008...

If this was the year 2008 or 2009....
i would not be that overly critical of what we are playing at the moment...

But its 2011!
and 5 years later...i
I feel the game has not gone forward the way it should...

Yes, PES12 is the "best" next gen version...but that's not saying a lot when compared to what came before it!
I feel we have been robbed by KONAMI for every penny since PES5/6!

Yes, PES5/6 had its issues...but they were not as mental or as head banging annoying as the issues in PES12...

Would be interested to see what other think on it?

 

[baangus]

Would be interested to see what other think on it?

Let us close our eyes,
Outside their lives
Go on much faster.
Oh no, we won't give in,
We'll keep living
In the pa-st...

 

[baangus]

Seriously though, I loaded up the PES 6 demo a few months back after all the complaints about PES 2011. I couldn't see the attraction myself. That degree of low-level technology is unwatchable and unplayable. I prefer to spend my time fixing the recent versions of these games with edits and mods. After a couple weeks of tweaking and adding gameplay mods, PES 11 was the best footie game I've ever played, period. Absolutely no need to live in the past IMO.

 

[abu97]

you think pes 6 has better graphics? Hell no!, you can't say that- the graphics were 2d cardboard cut outs in a 480p screen. if you watch football you'd understand- would you watch football in a 50 inch 1080p tv or a bulky tv with 360p?
If pes 6 is anything, it is overrated because it had no bugs. was there any power bar on the passes, wasn't player animation a bit robotic, wasn't it too compact. i mean have you even seen puyols face in pes 6. pes 6 is also fast and the opposite of real football and not a real simulation, more like an arcade with 2 pixels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYQ6Q5-fTsk
i mean looh how the players turn

 

[ftgpete]

Yeah and the way the players run now is incredibly realistic on PES................


And the graphics on PES 2012 arn't that impressive either but for me, that is not the major issue. Isn't it a good things PES 6 had no bugs? PES 2012 has no many I've lost count, it's a disgrace so many games have bugs now and people just accept it. I'd rather play PES 6 because the gameplay is much better than PES 2012, only thing I want with PES 2012 is the game modes.

 

[abu97]

the way player runs now are better than pes 6 because now it's smoother because of the responsiveness whilst in pes 6 every player ran at their top speed in 2 paces

 

[ftgpete]

Well I think every player runs now like the Road Runner on speed so I suppose we have two very different opinions.

 

[wallpaper_01]

I agree a little with this post, 6 years has not been much improvement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-DG_L8gq0A&feature=related

That video doesnt look all that much different to be honest. Im sure they have gone back and stole the player movement and collision detection and added it to pes 2012... Any wernt they supposed to be 2 new good features this year?!

 

[ArvD*]

That 1st footage looks like PS2 footage...
2nd Footage...360 footage...

PES on PC was a completely different animal to both!
Though PES6 on 360 was THE BEST on-line gaming experience for PES!
Again, something else that's not improved or got worse!

PES6 on PC - Stock...looks muck!
PES6 on PC - MODDED...i mean modded out its nut!
Real Player Faces...
Kit server increased to strips by at least 400% over stock quality...
Proper HD stadiums people made...on par IF NOT better than PES12 stadiums
etc

anyway...
Going from Stock PES6 to Stock PES12 is very a good jump...
A step in correct direction!...
They have gone into "Full HD"...
(I use the " " as their is a rumours PES12 IS NOT full HD, its up-scaled!)
They have a new engine, so its going to be ruff round the edges etc...
New game modes etc...

How ever, in reality...PES is a major let down with regards to its progression!
PES6 > PES2008 > PES2009 > PES2010 > PES2011 > PES2012

KONAMI are taking the VERY LONG WAY ROUND to producing a game better than PES6...
Thats all i was trying to emphasize...
And is some aspects..
still have a bit to go before they produce a game that's better than PES6...

I'd rather play PES6 (Again, my PC Version) Over PES08/09/10
If you played my Copy of PES6, on my PC, through a 50" plasma...
You'd see what i am getting at...

 

[ArvD*]

How can a guy(s), mod a game better than what KONAMI released?!
How can that modded version of PES6 still be on par with a game thats 5 years newer?!

That just shows how robust and solid PES6 engine was...
with HUGE amounts of editing and modding though....

In 5 years time, will we be playing PES12 saying how good it was back in the day?...lol

NO!!!

 

[baangus]

How can a guy(s), mod a game better than what KONAMI released?!

How can they? Easy, they did it last year and have already released better mods for PES 2012.

Is that a good thing, that a game needs to be modded like that to make it playable? Probably not. But that's the reality. Now, if there are mods available that make PES 2012 the best PES ever, then why are you still pining over PES 6? Go grab PES 2012 and enjoy!

 

[techboy11]

I can see where you're coming from with what you say. I think the latest iteration is a very good game after the stuff we were served at the start of next gen. But, as I've highlighted here and elsewhere if the keepers are so poor it spoils the game totally even though 98 per cent of the match may be stunning. Until a patch comes out that solves this and gets gameplay back to pre patch gameplay with solid keepers I'm taking a break from PES for a little while. I'm in fact going to load up my PC PES 6 tonight.

If you analyse it all you're right in what you're saying. Many see PES 6 as the start of the fall, I do out. The ball physics, The passing, The shooting, The individuality, The keepers, all top top notch. Some of the keeping and the animations is superb. Where have KONAMI been all this time. What people are getting it Is that it Is mind boggling in this day and age to have something completely broken like a goaly, who is one of the most important parts of the game. I get the odd occasion on the new PES where I'm like, get in there when I score, but the shooting in old PES games was just superb and you felt the goal.

This game needs urgent patching in my opinion.

 

[ArvD*]

I can see where you're coming from with what you say. I think the latest iteration is a very good game after the stuff we were served at the start of next gen. But, as I've highlighted here and elsewhere if the keepers are so poor it spoils the game totally even though 98 per cent of the match may be stunning. Until a patch comes out that solves this and gets gameplay back to pre patch gameplay with solid keepers I'm taking a break from PES for a little while. I'm in fact going to load up my PC PES 6 tonight.

If you analyse it all you're right in what you're saying. Many see PES 6 as the start of the fall, I do out. The ball physics, The passing, The shooting, The individuality, The keepers, all top top notch. Some of the keeping and the animations is superb. Where have KONAMI been all this time. What people are getting it Is that it Is mind boggling in this day and age to have something completely broken like a goaly, who is one of the most important parts of the game. I get the odd occasion on the new PES where I'm like, get in there when I score, but the shooting in old PES games was just superb and you felt the goal.

This game needs urgent patching in my opinion.

Post before you...i am not pinning...
Only pointing out that PES12 is far from reaching its full potential!
ANd the fact that there is a lot more wrong with it with regards to faults compared to previous versions...

And i AM one of those modders out there that release Option Files and Mods to make the game better...but when the game codding is so flawed at points, it ruins any work i do on OF's and the core game is broken!

as fore the quoted comments...
Spot on mate! agree'd with everything you said...

Can KONAMI not look back as we do and go...
This PES had the best passing...
This PES had the best Refs...
This PES had the best Goalkeepers...

Then use the codding from that and put it into the current version...

But no
KONAMI seem to want to do things the stupid hard way...
..This Year..PES AI been REDONE...FROM SCRATCH!!!!
This Year...PES has gone back to BASICS with ANIMATIONS!!Q!!

Why do they do this...
IMO, the only things from "scratch"...
should be the actual games engine & graphics...

AI - Refs - Goalkeeping etc...
Its a formula!...The essence of the Formula does not change no matter what engine its applied to!

If you go from Excel 1865...to Excel 2011
=sum(A1+A2) still gives you the same result!
But with KONAMI, that what not appear to be the case!

 

[baangus]

This Year...PES has gone back to BASICS with ANIMATIONS!

Now you're just talking rubbish to make your point apparently. Animation-wise, the game looks 300% better than last year, and every game review has said the same thing.

 

[baangus]

KONAMI seem to want to do things the stupid hard way...
..This Year..PES AI been REDONE...FROM SCRATCH!!!!

This I agree with. They removed player ratings this year for christ's sake. Now there's no shot technique rating to help fix the shooting issue. Stupid beyond belief. I even think it's why there are AI issues in this year's game that weren't in PES 2011 (GKs, shooting, run glitch). They screwed around with the game coding and didn't test it.

 

[ArvD*]

Now you're just talking rubbish to make your point apparently. Animation-wise, the game looks 300% better than last year, and every game review has said the same thing.

My point exactly...

Why do KONAMI feel every year they need to redo things, from scratch, every year!
Then boast about it in the next version as a Main selling point...
Only for it to be, re done again the next year...

They are going round and round in circles, but not getting anywhere very quickly!
And the stuff they sort out one year, doesn't seem to carry on to the next year..
OR it gets removed all together!

The progression of the game on a year by year basis is shocking!
And those years add up to 5 now...

 

[baangus]

The progression of the game on a year by year basis is shocking!

The state of the world is shocking. The state of the PES series, five years later, is merely puzzling, maybe even annoying if you let that sort of thing get to you.

Perspective is everything.

 

[abu97]

it is hard to judge a player on his shot technique stat- i don't blame konami for removing it but i blame them for not adding a skill card acrobat where a player can so acrobatic cleearances and shots for people with high shot technique or they dind't ad any new individual stats. Anyway, imo pes 2012 has better individuality because atlast you cannot shoot from anywhere. BUt for freedon pes 6 is better as it has more freedom to pass and shoot. to me in gameplay terms pes 2012 is a rebulid of pes 6 but with more responsiveness and graphics and other small features like the power bar in passing. Anyway i don't mind pes 2012 not being better than pes 4,5 etc but i'm just happy about the step forward from pes 2011 which is the exact opposite where players are monkeys that runaway from the ball, every single player is offside, there are no facial emotions etc. so if pes 2012 continues the increasing rate we might have a game on our hands next year or atleast put a patch to correct some bugs

Anyway on the konami website, seabass talked about pes 2013 and he said it'll be very different to what we are playing today and that is the most promising thing i've heard konami say a year before they release game.

 

[Sabatasso]

Arvd*, you're simply a retro gamer. The kind of gamer that thinks games was best before graphics was involved at all.

Some people also think that there have not been released a single piece of well written music since the 70's. These are the same kind of people.

I am exaggerating to make a point.

And PES5 was better than PES6, mind you... or at least they're basically the same, but PES5 got fewer gripes. Similar to PES2009 and PES2010, where PES2009 is a bit "stiffer", but better in every other aspect.

 

[ArvD*]

PES5/6 were not perfect...not by any means...
But I would gladly take the problems we had with PES5/6 over the problems we are now faced with in the last 2 titles...

In comparison...
PES12 has more wrong with it than PES5/6 ever did...
And why is this?!

We are 5 years forward from those days...
But the game seems to develop new and wonderful, more irritating flaws with each iteration!

For example...the refs...
How in one version they get the refs spot on...
12 months later...the refs are broken?!
Do we not know what copy and paste is!?
Are KONAMI SOOOOOO bad at identifying stuff that ACTUALLY needs fixed..and stuff that should be left alone?!

And that's Seabass saying already...
"PES2013 will be a completely different animal to what you are playing already"
Which is what he said this time last year...
and the year before that...

And then we come to "how" actually konami "fixes" things...
If something doesn't work, or causes an issues...then just remove it from the game!

Goalkeepers are poor...ok...how do we fix this!
OK - GREAT IDEA!
lets remove shot technique...
put 5 defenders infront of the goalkeeper at all times for protection...
then why don't we make the goal posts smaller as well!...
BANG - Keepers Fixed...

Rather than addressing the issue at hand...
they just go for the blue tack and sticky back tape approach!

Goalkeepers since PES2008 have not really evolved along with other parts of the game...
The animations of the goalkeeper when making saves still looks awful...
The keeper just doesn;t seem to move as fluid as the outfiled players...
The keeper seems to turn round and face his back to a stricker sometimes when coming in at angles on goal...
AND
the STUPID script where the keeper catches the ball, but some how NEVER goes over the touchline as he is stopped by an invisible wall!...
i mean...WTF!...lol...

I'm sorry...how KONAMI can sit back for the last 5 years and say...
"yeah, those keepers are good!" "Thats worthy of a £40 price tag, again!"

We go on about the bad things on this...
there is good things in the game, don't get we wrong...

its just i WISH KONAMI would actually WORK on ISSUES that NEED sorted!

Next year keepers might be sorted...
but the refs will be back to stevie wonder again!

Just a joke the KONAMI work ethic!

By the laws of average...
WE SHOULD of had a PES on the next generation by now...
...where all the best bits from 2008-2011 are in PES2012!
...and all the mince bits removed...

But some how KONAMI can't even pull this off!
lol