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Players don't respond = broken game

LEGOFLAMB22

Registered User
2010 was shit because of this

2014 was shit because of this

2015 IS shit because of this.

Players don't respond quickly enough when changing direction or passing/shooting.

This is the most fundamental thing that needs to be correct for the game to even be considered playable.

It's clunky and has no flow - super slow moving.

It's slightly better when you're not playing the computer as both players are affected in the same way but against the computer it really is unplayable.

Even if I'm winning it's like I couldn't care less - it's boring either way and I'd just as soon not be playing it.

I'm not saying make this game as arcadey as pro evo 4 and the physics and graphics are definitely high points.

I'm going back to pro evo 2013.

This game is shit - fuck you, konami.
 

rebelinho

Moderator
2010 was shit because of this

2014 was shit because of this

2015 IS shit because of this.

Players don't respond quickly enough when changing direction or passing/shooting.

It's clunky and has no flow - super slow moving.

It's slightly better when you're not playing the computer as both players are affected in the same way but against the computer it really is unplayable
.

I'm going back to pro evo 2013.

This game is shit - fuck you, konami.

PES2014 was shit because the game had input lag, this is, the action on the gamepad took a few milliseconds too long to happen in the game. PES2015 is good in that matter, because things happen with a delay, but not a very long one. This delay is the cause for your complaints of "not fast enough reactions when passing". Previous games were better in this aspect because information wasn't as heavy, so it was processed more quickly, I suppose.

Regarding the part I bolded, that isn't a reason to say a game is shit. It is different. PES2103 was immensely exaggerated towards the fast side, the way Robben, for example, turned was just ridiculous. Every player with the Speed Merchant card was the same. Completely unrealistic. In PES2015 it is slightly exaggerated towards the slow side. Much more realistic than before, but slightly too slow to gaming purposes. Still playable and enjoyable, but a bit faster wouldn't hurt. That's why I play in speed 1, helps to accelerate things a bit.

One of the points of this game is to recreate the passing that happens in real life, so the game is slow paced. Compared to the dribbling basis on PES2013 it is a much slower paced game. But yet again, this doesn't make the game slow, only different. So if you don't like it, that's fine, you can always try FIFA (much faster, therefore unrealistic and arcade) or remain with PES2013.

As for the second part of the bolded sentence. It is true. Specially in SS difficulty. The game has to get some advantage to face us. It is frustrating at first, and requires a lot of concentration and training to overcome the AI, but it is rewarding. I understand your concerns, I had those myself, but it you have patience and try to achieve methods to win, you will manage to do so.

As a final note: I played PES2013 until last November, when this game came out. I loved it. I was GREAT at it. When switching to this game I knew nothing, my friends had the advantage of not being used to do certain moves and plays from PES2013 that no longer worked, so I was beaten again, and again, and again. I thought about returning to the faithful, older friend PES2013, but PES2015 is better. I even prefer to play a possession game, so it is well suited to my style. Now, I can win every time. Practicing is the way to perfect.

As I said before, be patient.
 

Walshy9

New Member
[GOAL][/GOAL]
2010 was shit because of this

2014 was shit because of this

2015 IS shit because of this.

Players don't respond quickly enough when changing direction or passing/shooting.

This is the most fundamental thing that needs to be correct for the game to even be considered playable.

It's clunky and has no flow - super slow moving.

It's slightly better when you're not playing the computer as both players are affected in the same way but against the computer it really is unplayable.

Even if I'm winning it's like I couldn't care less - it's boring either way and I'd just as soon not be playing it.

I'm not saying make this game as arcadey as pro evo 4 and the physics and graphics are definitely high points.

I'm going back to pro evo 2013.

This game is shit - fuck you, konami.

Totally agree the game was great in the first months before the uodate and now it its a joke, scripting everywhere feels more like fifa everyday!!!
 

rebelinho

Moderator
[GOAL][/GOAL]

Totally agree the game was great in the first months before the uodate and now it its a joke, scripting everywhere feels more like fifa everyday!!!

lol, I don't know in which platform you play, but at least for PC the 1.02 patch is the only thing that makes SS bearable.
 

EthanLionel

Registered User
It's clunky and has no flow - super slow moving.

In my experience, I thought the game is super slow also. So I set my game speed to +2 and I thought it was a better experience. I just wanted to have the PES6 feel, maybe. The thing with the fast game speed though is it's harder to string touch passes which I love to do.

I then switch back to the default speed and after after a few days. It doesn't feel slow anymore and actually feels fast. Maybe we are just used to fast pace(like PES6, maybe) that why we thought PES 2015 is slow, but actually it's speed is actually nice.

Players don't respond quickly enough when changing direction or passing/shooting.

I have a problem like this before but once you get the technique, you won't feel this way.

It's hard to explain the technique but one of it is not to spam the sprint because if the ball is closer to your body the quicker you'll able to pass and shoot. The way you dribble will also help. When dribbling, feel it, don't quickly point your stick to "left" after pointing it "up". A good way is to point "up", the "up-left" and then "left", but not to quickly. This type of dribble can make you quickly pass, shoot or sprint because your in close control of the ball and there's no long animation that is needed to completed first.

I actually almost quit this game because i thought the game speed sucks and the gameplay is unresponsive, but now I really enjoy the game a lot. I know there are still lots of issues in the game but overall, It feels realistic.

Btw, I'm on PC like Rebelinho.
 

matthewjohn85

Registered User
is it just me who loves 1 bar support because it feels real and makes the passing smoother and with less lag, BUT if your'e going to play on 1 bar then you have to play with advanced shooting which comes with a big delay when you shoot and unless you master it then scoring vs the big teams on SS is realy hard ?
 

EthanLionel

Registered User
is it just me who loves 1 bar support because it feels real and makes the passing smoother and with less lag, BUT if your'e going to play on 1 bar then you have to play with advanced shooting which comes with a big delay when you shoot and unless you master it then scoring vs the big teams on SS is realy hard ?

I'm using 1-bar support and I love it.I'm glad that I didn't switched back to 3-bar support after a few days of frustrations. 1-bar pass support feels natural to me now.:)

Yes, it feels real. It feels like you have total control of the ball. The response is great also. When the defender is coming to you, you just have to tap the pass button quickly so that the pass is release by the passer quickly. It feels good specially when you are able to string touch passes and when you are able perform perfect through balls. The thing is those perfect through ball feels like you did the pass on your own without CPU help. In 3-bar support, making a perfect through pass feels bad because I can feel that the computer is helping me.

What do you mean that I need to play with advance shooting when using 1-bar support? I'm using normal shooting. Is it because it's too easy?

I tried advanced shooting now and yes, the lag sucks! That .5-1 second lag makes advance shooting not fun at all. It's unplayable!
 

LEGOFLAMB22

Registered User
PES2014 was shit because the game had input lag, this is, the action on the gamepad took a few milliseconds too long to happen in the game. PES2015 is good in that matter, because things happen with a delay, but not a very long one. This delay is the cause for your complaints of "not fast enough reactions when passing". Previous games were better in this aspect because information wasn't as heavy, so it was processed more quickly, I suppose.

No the lag is the same.
 

chimaira67

Registered User
if you want faster reactions reduce the bars on the pass assist to 1 or 0. its harder to play to start but players are a lot more responsive cause they are no longer running on tracks
 

EthanLionel

Registered User
I don't think there is a difference in terms of responsiveness when you change the pass support. I play with 1 bar support and responsiveness is fine. Every now and then, I play with 3-bar pass support and it's still fine.

I think the OP just wanted a more arcade game where in the players pass/shoot the ball super quick and unrealistically.
 

LEGOFLAMB22

Registered User
I don't think there is a difference in terms of responsiveness when you change the pass support. I play with 1 bar support and responsiveness is fine. Every now and then, I play with 3-bar pass support and it's still fine.

I think the OP just wanted a more arcade game where in the players pass/shoot the ball super quick and unrealistically.

No - PES has copied the shitty gameplay of fifa but messed it up so it's even worse.

Fifa 15 is miles ahead of PES even though it still feels 'fifa-ry'.

What is wrong with just having the gameplay from 13 and just upgrading the graphics, physics, animations and the like?

I don't want it to be like 2008 which was quite arcadey (but still much better than 14 and 15)

The same thing happens when anyone complains about the broken mechanics of the game - some fanboy will chime in with a disparaging remark about how the game is great but people don't know how to play it. The same as on IMDB when people say someone 'doesn't get x film'. - NO IT'S JUST SHIT.
 

IronCity

Banned
I recently went back to playing FIFA on ps3, and it is painful. If my CAM gets in front of my striker on an attack, the striker will just sit back and not respond to the run as if wanting to play defense for a counter attack.

gosh darn, both these games are annoying.
 

fatehasfans

Registered User
The same thing happens when anyone complains about the broken mechanics of the game - some fanboy will chime in with a disparaging remark about how the game is great but people don't know how to play it. The same as on IMDB when people say someone 'doesn't get x film'. - NO IT'S JUST SHIT.

This is so right because I realized when I commented on the game being bad that people kept trying to tell me that there was a playable method/solution for the problems I brought up with the game but as I attempted their solutions (all of which didn't work which I knew anyways) I realized that you cannot convince a person who loves something that it is broken - love is blind. I had the same thing with Rat Monkey - I pointed out the broken elements of the game and he tried to provide an explanation to show that it wasn't the game but actually my play-style, I wanted to believe him because I really wanted this game to work, sad reality is its a badly scripted mess. PES 15 has a real identity crisis.

It's not shit, but its not great either, a mediocre football game with the PES label


60/100
 

rebelinho

Moderator
Dear God, you guys need to clam down, have a beer, and relax over the sound of DSOTM.

Instead of trying to make everybody angry as fuck over a game you consider shit (I won't battle over this anymore) go play the ones you consider good. That simple.

Why do you keep posting the same raging stuff over and over again? It won't change anything for that matter. Even if it is in the Official Feedback Zone.

I like the game. I know it is broken and is shit and non responsive and broken and broken and broken, but I like it. Consider me a "fanboy" if you want, or even stupid for liking broken stuff, but I know how hard it is to make a football game that depicts reality in a convincing way. So I keep on playing it. As far as I'm concerned this game is a damn good effort, given the basis it was built on (the mistakes started here) and comparing it to the previous titles. I liked PES6 and PES2013 as I never liked any other game, I like this one a bit less, but I can live with the broken shit for the sake of a more realistic/challenging (even if it by means of AI cheating) game.

Changing the game categories, do you prefer a broken, floating NFS Shift, or a game like NFS2? It's the same thing as with PES: one is more realistic, but broken, the other is arcady, but not broken (as opposite as it sounds, you seem to consider arcade games "not broken")
 

Rat Monkey

Registered User
This is so right because I realized when I commented on the game being bad that people kept trying to tell me that there was a playable method/solution for the problems I brought up with the game but as I attempted their solutions (all of which didn't work which I knew anyways) I realized that you cannot convince a person who loves something that it is broken - love is blind. I had the same thing with Rat Monkey - I pointed out the broken elements of the game and he tried to provide an explanation to show that it wasn't the game but actually my play-style, I wanted to believe him because I really wanted this game to work, sad reality is its a badly scripted mess. PES 15 has a real identity crisis.

It's not shit, but its not great either, a mediocre football game with the PES label


60/100

Coming on bitchin and moaning like the rest is one thing, but once you start making out people are completely thick for liking it which you did about me before in your video thread, its another thing. Then make out I'm some blind idiot, aswell as agreeing with the other whinger you quoted that people who disagree with you about alot of the mechanics are fanboys! Pathetic. I haven't liked the game that much since 06, except 14 on the xbox 360(unbroken version unlike ps3 and pc).

The only one who is blind is you! You complained about how you couldn't get even a shot on regular in champions league and asked me to play it. I won my first match 10-1 with an image for proof, which with all you say you don't have control over proves you wrong. I obviously have a huge amount of control over what I'm doing, which not only proves you wrong but suggests your rubbish. Your only comeback was about not being able to bend a pass. You then post a video of how you play, which I forensically went through. The video replaced the suggestion your rubbish with full blown proof as you don't have a clue defending and attacking wise. The only one who is blind is you, givin the staggering evidence to the contrary of your beliefs! Ignore the obvious all you want.
 

fatehasfans

Registered User
Coming on bitchin and moaning like the rest is one thing, but once you start making out people are completely thick for liking it which you did about me before in your video thread, its another thing. Then make out I'm some blind idiot, aswell as agreeing with the other whinger you quoted that people who disagree with you about alot of the mechanics are fanboys! Pathetic. I haven't liked the game that much since 06, except 14 on the xbox 360(unbroken version unlike ps3 and pc).

The only one who is blind is you! You complained about how you couldn't get even a shot on regular in champions league and asked me to play it. I won my first match 10-1 with an image for proof, which with all you say you don't have control over proves you wrong. I obviously have a huge amount of control over what I'm doing, which not only proves you wrong but suggests your rubbish. Your only comeback was about not being able to bend a pass. You then post a video of how you play, which I forensically went through. The video replaced the suggestion your rubbish with full blown proof as you don't have a clue defending and attacking wise. The only one who is blind is you, givin the staggering evidence to the contrary of your beliefs! Ignore the obvious all you want.

I made a post to counter all your post-match nonsense, it deals with everything you brought up and actually only served to reinforce my initial points. Funny how things went all quiet since then I made that post but now that your name pops up in another post you get all flustered. The bottom line is the game is broke and you can't see it, which is fine; I see it you don't simple as that. Initially, your evaluation was so far removed from what I was experiencing that I had to upload that video but that video (namely the two goals) isn't even the worst of it - I reiterated all this in my concluding post which you never responded to, which is fine. Just because your name was raised here (and not in any defamatory way) there is no need for you to jump out from under your bridge with your knickers in a twist.

Look, I could make a lengthy video of all clips showing only the problematic elements of the game (I feel like doing it just to hear what excuses you’d make – players getting sucked behind or running away from the ball or tripping over themselves or bumbling into one another etc etc ), but then I think who am I trying to convince, you? I know the game is a mess and you have no problem with it so there is no point in me doing that, it would be energy wasted. Also, just to end ‘Basic’ shooting isn't good at all it’s the same half dozen shot outcomes over and over and much of it just completely randomized and please don't insult my intelligence by telling me otherwise for I have tested it for hours with different game settings, teams and edited settings. If you were to play online with Basic it becomes even more restricted whereas offline you may have some more options but it’s still very limited and inconsistent, in fact the only thing consistent is the inconsistency.
Rat you like that game but don't come over all coy like some humble master of PES, you may have some weight on this forum but I think it's slightly misguided.
I thought you knew far more than you do because of the basic shooting comment you made where I was using advanced but after testing it (Basic shooting) rigorously I can confirm that it's crap too so essentially you are trying to tell me that one crap system (the one you use) is better than another (the initial 'Advanced' setting) the one I used - this just cemented the fact that the game is messed up on so many levels and those who love it simply won't agree.
This is the point raised in the post I quoted here and I agree wholly, there are people that try to tell you that it is you that doesn’t know how to play and not the game, that’s just pie in the sky, for want of a better word. Go read my concluding post and answer which you didn’t. Your smoke and mirrors don’t cut shit for if a game’s broke, it’s broke and no amount of circumspect will undo that but by all means feel free to try. I’m always willing to try new things but when they don’t work, especially when I know underneath that they won’t it only strengthens my resolve and facilitates my argument.

Good luck!
 

Rat Monkey

Registered User
I made a post to counter all your post-match nonsense, it deals with everything you brought up and actually only served to reinforce my initial points. Funny how things went all quiet since then I made that post but now that your name pops up in another post you get all flustered. The bottom line is the game is broke and you can't see it, which is fine; I see it you don't simple as that. Initially, your evaluation was so far removed from what I was experiencing that I had to upload that video but that video (namely the two goals) isn't even the worst of it - I reiterated all this in my concluding post which you never responded to, which is fine. Just because your name was raised here (and not in any defamatory way) there is no need for you to jump out from under your bridge with your knickers in a twist.

Look, I could make a lengthy video of all clips showing only the problematic elements of the game (I feel like doing it just to hear what excuses you’d make – players getting sucked behind or running away from the ball or tripping over themselves or bumbling into one another etc etc ), but then I think who am I trying to convince, you? I know the game is a mess and you have no problem with it so there is no point in me doing that, it would be energy wasted. Also, just to end ‘Basic’ shooting isn't good at all it’s the same half dozen shot outcomes over and over and much of it just completely randomized and please don't insult my intelligence by telling me otherwise for I have tested it for hours with different game settings, teams and edited settings. If you were to play online with Basic it becomes even more restricted whereas offline you may have some more options but it’s still very limited and inconsistent, in fact the only thing consistent is the inconsistency.
Rat you like that game but don't come over all coy like some humble master of PES, you may have some weight on this forum but I think it's slightly misguided.
I thought you knew far more than you do because of the basic shooting comment you made where I was using advanced but after testing it (Basic shooting) rigorously I can confirm that it's crap too so essentially you are trying to tell me that one crap system (the one you use) is better than another (the initial 'Advanced' setting) the one I used - this just cemented the fact that the game is messed up on so many levels and those who love it simply won't agree.
This is the point raised in the post I quoted here and I agree wholly, there are people that try to tell you that it is you that doesn’t know how to play and not the game, that’s just pie in the sky, for want of a better word. Go read my concluding post and answer which you didn’t. Your smoke and mirrors don’t cut shit for if a game’s broke, it’s broke and no amount of circumspect will undo that but by all means feel free to try. I’m always willing to try new things but when they don’t work, especially when I know underneath that they won’t it only strengthens my resolve and facilitates my argument.

Good luck!

Its makes me laugh when you come out with drivel about me being silent because I didn't answer your post because comments like that just prove to me how you believe what you want to believe. My comments on your video and others points I made about things you previously had brought up were suffice to answer that post of yours. To respond to it would just be repeating what I'd already said, and to be honest I couldn't be arsed. The main reason I didn't respond I'll end with.

Flustered? Coming on making out I'm some blind idiot(and a fanboy) is going to be challenged given the evidence I've produced and also your video which you kindly made to reinforce what I already thought. Don't be so easy to see what you want too.

Some humble master? Man, don't embarrass yourself with ridiculous made up nonsense and I've no more "clout" on here than anyone else. I just know how to make my point and can hold my own.

After constanly using basic shooting I can confirm there is little wrong with it. Your just plain wrong buddy.

See how this goes now and why I didn't respond to your post? We end up going around in circles repeating the same crap. It's a bore. You are convinced of your opinion, I'm mine. You see how we're both wasting each others energy?! And please don't make anymore videos. By the way, I find there is alot wrong with the game that could be improved. Still a hell of alot right with it as well.

EDIT: The proof of you not being able to even get a shot off on regular and I win 10-1, and the video showing your horrendous defense and attacking only reinforces what I think. Very compelling real evidence.
 

fatehasfans

Registered User
Flustered? Coming on making out I'm some blind idiot(and a fanboy)....

Yes, a fanboy in the sense you love this game (not the series). Fanboy doesn't have to mean you love every game.


EDIT: The proof of you not being able to even get a shot off on regular and I win 10-1, and the video showing your horrendous defense and attacking only reinforces what I think. Very compelling real evidence.

I never said I couldn't get a shot off. My problem was, as I mentioned above, that my version of the game seemed a lot harder on easy settings compared to what other people were experiencing.

Also, my last post (after your vid comment) highlighted the linear and bottleneck form of play. But let me just put the problems in quick format and see what we have:

1). Pathing is far too linear - passing options STILL very limited, you are left having to play a certain way. Freedom of expression extremely limited i.e. one play style. Not to mention simple passes not hitting the target or loads of options simply not available. Close/quick intricate passing is non-existent. Long/through lobs inconsistent and unrealistic looking at best (when the target player is close your player will often loft the ball to them in an almost vertical arc - laughably unrealistic)

2). AI problems - from being pulled to the floor and rolled on to your players simply acting of their own accord (momentarily running away from the ball or pausing/stalling/unresponsive), cursor delays, tackling, speed changes (your players slow their players quick). Players backing off, not stepping in etc, etc acting like dummies.

3). Speed/animations/implementation of tricks - all of this is utterly inconsistent. One minute run (double tap) works then next it doesn't. One minute a trick works the next it doesn't. One minute a shot works (with a given setting i.e. power, speed, accuracy) the next you get something entirely different - and don't say "that's football" - this is a game so the controls should be consistent.

Overall it's the inconsistency that kills it for me. It feels like I am playing 3-4 different games and these switches happen all the time during a match. All of this points to scripting and if you don't see it then you have the blinkers on. Hence I agreed with the fanboy statement.

I can play this game to a very high level but in doing so I am forced to play a very limited way, which as I mentioned I don't like - the game is limited enough without wanting to limit myself further. I would be more than happy to play you online sometime to prove just how efficient I can be but like I said I hate this method of play (always having to play one way i.e. the way that works, it's bottlenecking).

On the upside PES15 does have some nice moments (which genuinely make it hard for you to go back to the previous games) which is why I said I wanted to like it, but sadly this is interrupted all too often with moments were I don't feel in total control or the control has shifted. For if all things are equal then a pass should work all of the time, as with the rest (shooting, running, movements etc)- in this game, more than any other, this simply isn't the case and when I know that I am not the one in control of the outcome then it begs the question, why play when the game is scripting the events as it sees fit? I'm tired of saying "that's not what I wanted to do".

Look, as I see it the current system (the increased implementation of scripting) is a way for Konami to increase competitiveness while removing potential abuse-play. By giving the computer/AI more control and changing the control systems/outcomes when necessary in real-time there is no way for a human to master the game fully which also means there is less chance for them to find potentially abusive loop-holes (i.e. through-lob spamming, etc). However, the other side to this means that you end up just becoming nothing more than a glorified puppet (as someone else mentioned in a previous post) and I'm sorry this simply won't stick with me, for I want full balance, I want to be beaten not because the computer hands my opponent or itself an advantage by which my functions, controls and passing etc. all periodically decrease or momentarily stop working to give my opponent an ‘advantage’, but instead through real skill. I don’t want to be beaten because my cursor didn’t work, my player stopped running or ran the other way, or a simple pass decides to go the other way (even though 2 mins previous the same pass worked!) I want to be beaten fairly, then I will be satisfied.

If you like this game and don't see the above issues then yes there is nothing more to say for this stuff cannot be fixed through controls or changing one's play-style for they are ingrained within the game's coding, only patching can help improve these things and although the last patch did bring some wanted improvements in gameplay most of the above is sadly still there.

Good luck Rat!

P.S. I don't mean to be an ass so if I came across that way then I apologize.
 

rebelinho

Moderator
Look, as I see it the current system (the increased implementation of scripting) is a way for Konami to increase competitiveness while removing potential abuse-play. By giving the computer/AI more control and changing the control systems/outcomes when necessary in real-time there is no way for a human to master the game fully which also means there is less chance for them to find potentially abusive loop-holes (i.e. through-lob spamming, etc). However, the other side to this means that you end up just becoming nothing more than a glorified puppet (as someone else mentioned in a previous post) and I'm sorry this simply won't stick with me, for I want full balance, I want to be beaten not because the computer hands my opponent or itself an advantage by which my functions, controls and passing etc. all periodically decrease or momentarily stop working to give my opponent an ‘advantage’, but instead through real skill. I don’t want to be beaten because my cursor didn’t work, my player stopped running or ran the other way, or a simple pass decides to go the other way (even though 2 mins previous the same pass worked!) I want to be beaten fairly, then I will be satisfied.

This is what everybody wants, but as I said in my previous post yesterday, it isn't easy, and perhaps even impossible. And once more, I reckon the attemp KONAMI made this year isn't that bad. There have always been scripting, and there will always be.
 
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