Ronaldo (Brazilian)
- Thread starter sambo692009
- Start date
Great vid. One thing i noticed about messi this season is that his chipping of keepers has become incredible. Id like to know how many hes scored by making the keeper look silly. Saw one match this season (May of been champions league can't remember) where almost every shot he took was a chip. And he scored at least 2 of them.
Argentina may have won the last world cup if they had a manager who could actually manage. No offence maradona!
Argentina may have won the last world cup if they had a manager who could actually manage. No offence maradona!
Sabatasso
Banned
It was New York Cosmos, not that it matters to me but I corrected it just in case someone wants to read some football history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Cosmos
Wewillgreetu
Registered User
I can't quite believe people are saying Messi needs to prove himself? WTF! Sabatasso has already stated his figures this season. Over 70 goals in a season and your telling me he needs to prove himself? I think you need to remember scoring is the hardest thing to do in the game of football. He surpassed Gerd Mullers long standing record. What more do you want him to do? I could also say the same thing about Pele. Sure he proved himself internationally but he never ever stepped foot into Europe to ply his trade. Would he have done the same? Its all semantics to me. All the players mentioned are legends in my view - Ronaldo, Zidane, Pele and Messi. Messi for me is the best I have seen and is the best player to have played the game in my view.
One other thing if Ronaldo is in the next PES surely they have to create him when he was at his prime - Barcelona and early Inter Milan days. Sure he had plenty of moments at Real Madrid too but he was at full flow at Barcelona and Inter Milan until injury struck.
Glad someone mentioned the Italian league of the 90's
best league in the world in those days - Weah, Maldini, Nedved, Zidane, Buffon, Thuram, Cannavaro, Rui Costa, Batistuta, Dunga, Baresi, Rijkaard, Baggio etc etc ah good memories. Now tell me the league past or present that could compete with the Italian league of the 90s?
One other thing if Ronaldo is in the next PES surely they have to create him when he was at his prime - Barcelona and early Inter Milan days. Sure he had plenty of moments at Real Madrid too but he was at full flow at Barcelona and Inter Milan until injury struck.
Glad someone mentioned the Italian league of the 90's
best league in the world in those days - Weah, Maldini, Nedved, Zidane, Buffon, Thuram, Cannavaro, Rui Costa, Batistuta, Dunga, Baresi, Rijkaard, Baggio etc etc ah good memories. Now tell me the league past or present that could compete with the Italian league of the 90s?Wewillgreetu
Registered User
:laugh: The Spanish league of present has been firmly put in it's place lol I do watch La Liga alot though highly technical stuff. Of course Real Madrid and Barcelona dominate because they are both awesome powerhouses. If you put them into any league in the World right now they would dominate. Sick of English Premier League fanboys telling me "La Liga only consists of two teams. It's like the SPL". The real reason is because these two teams are awesome, they are special.
I agree with you. Not much in premier league these days. Chelsea did real well landing the big one, They had a bit of luck on the way there. I don't think premier league is anywhere near the standards where it used to be. But take real and barca out of spanish league and there's not a lot left there either. Mind you, At least they can pass a ball in Spain.. And as for the SPL. Oh dear
Sabatasso
Banned
Justification of that claim...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1099349-top-5-things-pele-does-not-want-you-to-know
R9NALD9
Registered User
Great article!
Strangely enough, I've heard it on more than one occasion that the Brazilian public is very much divided to whom is their best player ever in history. They are generally divided between Pele and Garrincha
Wewillgreetu
Registered User
This just backs up the fact Pele talks so much bullshit! I respect he was a great player and a legend. His outbursts tarnish his reputation though, jealous much Pele? :laugh: 3 World cups? Well I could turn the tables and say until Pele wins 3 Champions league's? His goal tally is great as we know but to claim goals scored in friendlies is something else. It seems he is clutching at straws to be the best. Did I ever tell you that I have a career tally of over a 1000 goals scored playing two bounce combi, every man for himself and goalkeeper to goalkeeper :laugh:
Horrible article! How can anyone try to blemish Pele's reputation? Who the hell said that Messi passed Pele...are u guys serious?
Maybe i can quote a few comments from readers of that bullshit of an article that was posted by that hemorrhoid pusher.
"Do you actually know what does "unofficial friendlies and tour games" mean ?Back in the days , not all football matches fell under FIFA control and certainly most friendly matches did not .
One more thing, Botafogo Futebol Clube is based in Ribeirão Preto of Sao Paulo and hence called Botafogo de Ribeirão Preto's .So it is the same Botafogo.
Botafogo you mentioned is the same Club that produced Socrates . As matter of fact during the early sixties - Botafogo line up was similar to Barca today in the sense it contained more than half of the 1962 Brazil line up which won the World cup including Amarildo , Didi , Garrincha, Nílton Santos, Mário Zagallo .Yet it was Santos who won the Copa Libertadores and the Intercontinental Cup back to back including continental treble . I guess when you rely on google to learn football history - this type of article"
"The "tours" that you mentioned, were played in important tournaments in Europe, as "Teresa Herrera" (Spain) "Gialo rosso" (Milano), "Torneo de Valencia" (Spain), "Paris" "Amsterdam", played against: Real Madrid, Barcelona, Arsenal, Benfica, Milan, Juventus, Inter Milano, Roma, Aston Villa, etc.
Get informed before , write such bull....&*$$.
Check the Santos FC, website, with every goal scored by Pelé. And every game played by him.
www.santosfc.com.br "
Sabatasso
Banned
Ockrass... *sigh* Pelé was great, just not as great as he thinks himself... ~700 competitive goals is very impressive, and ~1300 is only true if you bend the truth.
We're simply implying that Pelé has a creative imagination... and Garrincha was better than Pelé or easily his equal. Garrincha, like Maradona, won the World Cup singlehandedly with a mediocre team. Garrincha just lacked the impressive ego that both Pelé and Maradona have their fair share of.
On another subject, both Maradona and Pelé strikes me as fairly unintelligent people, but the irony is that they both were intelligent footballers. They both speaks as if they lack a few braincells, though, and looking at past and present statements from the two it's hard to figure who's the most stupid of the two.
I adore Maradona as a player, though, and I've had the pleasure of seeing him play live and on TV on several occasions. There are many exceptional footballers of the past and present, and statistics is a fine tool. But statistics does not tell the entire truth. Of all the special footballers I've seen live or on TV or both, in full matches, Maradona was magical. When he was in the mood to play, he was everywhere and brilliant as a dribbler, passer, finisher and even as a team leader. He was the complete package, a football genius with the technique of the gods. There are players who match his technique, especially today, and there are players who match his smartness and leadership skills on the pitch. But not all in one player, and that's what makes Maradona exceptional, at least for me.
We're simply implying that Pelé has a creative imagination... and Garrincha was better than Pelé or easily his equal. Garrincha, like Maradona, won the World Cup singlehandedly with a mediocre team. Garrincha just lacked the impressive ego that both Pelé and Maradona have their fair share of.
On another subject, both Maradona and Pelé strikes me as fairly unintelligent people, but the irony is that they both were intelligent footballers. They both speaks as if they lack a few braincells, though, and looking at past and present statements from the two it's hard to figure who's the most stupid of the two.
I adore Maradona as a player, though, and I've had the pleasure of seeing him play live and on TV on several occasions. There are many exceptional footballers of the past and present, and statistics is a fine tool. But statistics does not tell the entire truth. Of all the special footballers I've seen live or on TV or both, in full matches, Maradona was magical. When he was in the mood to play, he was everywhere and brilliant as a dribbler, passer, finisher and even as a team leader. He was the complete package, a football genius with the technique of the gods. There are players who match his technique, especially today, and there are players who match his smartness and leadership skills on the pitch. But not all in one player, and that's what makes Maradona exceptional, at least for me.
Amateur
Registered User
I put a lot of emphasis on education standards, 20 year olds who watched Pele in the 1960s and 1970s, are well over 60 years of age today: if you know or have an idea of how common the "atheistic" view was 40 years ago, then you know that people from 40 years ago are less willing to accept different believes or dispositions....
Case in point, a lot of people who watched Maradona playing at his prime, say the 20 year olds who watched Maradona in the 1980s, have the flexibility to accept the fact that, maybe, just maybe, Messi is just as good and perhaps even better than Maradona ever was.
Now consider the same thing, with the 20 year olds who watched Pele in the 1960s and 1970s, and the vast majority of them, they cannot accept, they cannot even contemplate, the possibility that another football player might be just as good as Pele was: doesn't fall into the realm of possibility for them, Pele is the best "ever", not the best "yet", but the best "ever", which summarizes their limited abilities for objective analysis or observations.
Bottom line, I agree with the general sentiment of that article. Pele is far from the best in my opinion, a glorified douche who boasts because he scored a lot of goals at a time when defensive tactics were absolute shit; to add insult to injury, Pele never was the top scorer of a world cup tournament, so much for a player who scored so many goals, yet was incapable of being the top scorer at any of "his" world cups.
Just another case of old people whom are too single-minded to accept the fact that technology and sports do evolve....
Because whatever the "www.santosfc.com.br" website offers as the truth should be taken at face value no questions asked? Because paper work is not susceptible to fraud? Do you know how easy it is to make up "facts" provided the circumstances create the possibility?
I don't quite get your point, other than unintentionally showcasing how naive you are in this respect.
In any case, this is my point: Pele was a great player, but if you look at the actual video footage, and you cannot accept the fact that football was ten times slower, that defensive tactics were shit, then your opinion will not be taken seriously by any objective observer.
*sigh* ...As much as you guys want to hate Pele for whatever stupid reasons you all have listed here ....the fact still remains ...Pele is the greatest player in football history. His greatness is not determined by the number of goals that you and many other idiots are trying dispell but by his unique playing style and flair he brought to the game.
...and what with this foolish statement about Maradona winning the world cup by himself? What about Batista, Passarella, Burrchaga, Valdano, Pumpido, Ruggeri ...and of course who can forget the "hand of god".
I guess i will remain with the facts....I do not need to argue with opinions of who thinks Pele is the greatest.......who is next Michael Jordan?
:shocking:
:shocking: Are you really serious ....? You must be shitting me.
So I must not take the statistics from a reputable site ..but listen to your bullshit....like
"..football was ten times slower, that defensive tactics were shit." :laugh:
You should take the time to read over what you have written bro.....that is some dumb shit.
So in your reasoning .....Pele was only good because football was slower ?...:no:
You kill me! :lol:
R9NALD9
Registered User
At last we agree on something...Maradona was truly the best player to play the game IMO. I haven't seen him play live and was too young to really appreciate him playing on TV, and missed his prime days anyways...but from what I've seen he is in a class of his own.
Pele wasn't the best...same as the spanish team of today aren't the best team of alltime...though the media is serving us this crap.
Sabatasso
Banned
Can't argue with the amount of silverware this generation of Spain is bringing home though. But it can be hard to determine if one team is good because the opposition is weaker, or if it's good because they're actually as good as they seem.
@Ockrass
Amateur pwned your thoroughly, stop squirming and denial of common sense.
@Ockrass
Amateur pwned your thoroughly, stop squirming and denial of common sense.
Wewillgreetu
Registered User
Man are you guys still at it? The fact is you are never going to agree. Some say Pele, some say Messi, some say maradona and some will say Ronaldo etc It is something which we will never know, we can only go on opinions. I have already stated my opinion, Messi is the best player for me. What I really hate is when people try and shove there opinions down your throat. It is one thing stating the facts and stats but another trying to "force" your're own opinion down there throats.
Heskey was the greatest - *forum closed*
Heskey was the greatest - *forum closed*
Amateur
Registered User
Oh but I do take the time to think about what I write, and I did remember mentioning that "Pele was a great player", but that the shit defensive tactics made him look much better than he actually was; am I saying that Pele was only good because football was slower?
Not at all, merely saying that slow football added to shit defensive tactics, made Pele look much smarter and much better than he actually was, yet still, Pele was a great player by any standards, but in my book, I would never consider him the best player of all times.
By the way, taking statistics from a reputable site, doe not change the fact that back in the 1960s a television set was not all that common (particularly in Brazil at the time), a video recorder was unheard of, and my guess is that people in Brazil -let alone people in Europe- rarely watched Pele play other than on the rare occasions when Pele visited their hometown: so who is to say how many goals Pele did scored? Or do you think that the (and this is important) human beings whom where in charge of statistics, are not susceptible -the very same way the government is- to corruption? Even more so considering the fact that no video evidence exists to validate or refute their claims?
Hell, I could say that in 1967, Pele scored 12 goals in that one game, and how could you refute my claim if my information is backed by a "reputable" site?
Sure, maybe a 60 year old fan who was at at that one game, will know the truth, but "reputable" organizations are very easy to buy provided you have the money to do so.
Why is Pele considered the best of all time when Garrincha was arguably better?
Because Pele had the image and the intelligence to organize his legacy, because Pele's image was so much better than the drunken mess that Garrincha was, because organization and money will buy you the loyalty of "reputable" organizations, because a drunken buffoon who wasted his money on women and booze would never be backed by a "reputable" organization whom would market him as the all time great, because at the end of the day, you know that "reputable" organizations would not want a drunken idiot and a blatant illiterate as their all time best player.
So what if you need to bend the reality a little, what if Pele only scored three goals in that one match, but you pay the officials a good quantity of money so that the statistics say that Pele scored six goals in that one match? How could you or I or anyone else, refute their claim, without proper video evidence?
Impossible, Pele's legacy is tarnished by corruption as far as I'm concerned, it's easy to make up "facts" when the circumstances create the possibility, that's why "reputable" organizations all place Pele above Garrincha, and that's why Brazil is divided between Pele and Garrincha.
Bottom line, if you want to blindly believe that Pele is the best player of all times, even though the only video footage that you can see of him is the equivalent of less than 10% of his career: go right ahead.... Me, I prefer to actually know the player that I consider the best of all times.
fick
Registered User
Sorry, but that's utter bollocks.
During Pele's era, defenders were allowed to tackle, the game was considerably more physical, the ball was heavier, harder to control and required more effort to move around & players didn't have the benefits of modern nutrition and advanced training and game day equipment.
If you were a clever back then, you had to be really good. Either that or the defenders kicked the fuck out of you.
The majority of 'world class' players nowadays (and I use the term world class loosely) are a bunch of overacting, overprotected nancy boys.
Edit: Oh and the best player ever was Eusebio, so you're both wrong.