wheresmark
Registered User
I don't think it's proven exactly, I just think games should be based on fact and actual events instead of future possibilities. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions though 
Ronaldo way overrated
- Thread starter Reckless83
- Start date
menaceuk
Registered User
They could be adjusted, yes, But does a player being better at dribbling make Messi any less great at it ?
wheresmark
Registered User
Not at all, but his dribble ability would then be based on the best; so even if the numerical value was lesser, they could make 98 what 99 was, and make 99 further improved from the previous 99.
alessiocerci
Registered User
I think stats should be done as follows...
I will use speed as an example too make it easy, lets say Usain Bolt joins Manu
his pb for 100m is 9.58
that is really very close to whats possible from a human being
but lets just say 9.40 is the clean (natural genes and no roids)human limit
for 100m
9.40/9.58 is 0.981
So Usain Bolt would be given a speed rating of 98
Now lets see the fasted footballer on the planet is Adam Gemili
100m pb of 10.05
so 9.40/10.05 is 0.9353
so he would be given a speed rating 94 (rounded up)
but hes not in pes
Ryo Miyaichi is and his 100m time is 10.84 (from google so god knows if true)
9.40/10.84 is 0.87
so he would be given a speed rating 87
lets take a slower player , say mertesacker
have to use some guess work here but lets say hes around 13 sec 100m?
9.40/13 is 0.72 , so he would have speed rating 72
that system seems perfect for me
also football pitches are usually just over 100m so with that system it would take Miyaichi 11 secs to run the length of the pitch with sprint button held ingame(off the ball)
That would be perfect realism
at the moment the speed stats are not realistic at all
Walcott has 96? so he would almost keep up with Bolt with the current system(they would give him 99)
which is nonsense
With dribbling 99 would be the absolute perfect dribbler of the limits of the human body is capable which no one has yet
Messi and Maradona are probably the closet ever so give them 97
has anyone ever timed how long it takes a player to run the length of the pitch off the ball
need to try that later to see how realistic pes is lol.
man what a long post lol
I will use speed as an example too make it easy, lets say Usain Bolt joins Manu
his pb for 100m is 9.58
that is really very close to whats possible from a human being
but lets just say 9.40 is the clean (natural genes and no roids)human limit
for 100m
9.40/9.58 is 0.981
So Usain Bolt would be given a speed rating of 98
Now lets see the fasted footballer on the planet is Adam Gemili
100m pb of 10.05
so 9.40/10.05 is 0.9353
so he would be given a speed rating 94 (rounded up)
but hes not in pes
Ryo Miyaichi is and his 100m time is 10.84 (from google so god knows if true)
9.40/10.84 is 0.87
so he would be given a speed rating 87
lets take a slower player , say mertesacker
have to use some guess work here but lets say hes around 13 sec 100m?
9.40/13 is 0.72 , so he would have speed rating 72
that system seems perfect for me
also football pitches are usually just over 100m so with that system it would take Miyaichi 11 secs to run the length of the pitch with sprint button held ingame(off the ball)
That would be perfect realism
at the moment the speed stats are not realistic at all
Walcott has 96? so he would almost keep up with Bolt with the current system(they would give him 99)
which is nonsense
With dribbling 99 would be the absolute perfect dribbler of the limits of the human body is capable which no one has yet
Messi and Maradona are probably the closet ever so give them 97
has anyone ever timed how long it takes a player to run the length of the pitch off the ball
need to try that later to see how realistic pes is lol.
man what a long post lol
menaceuk
Registered User
Is all guess work and opinion though on most stats. all though speed wise I do like your way.
Sabatasso
Banned
By saying that, you're actually saying that surpassing Messi in dribbling is impossible. I say 95 should be max, to leave room for coming generations to surpass the "best" of today
alessiocerci
Registered User
Lol i just timed walcott on the training pitch with standard game speed
in pes 2012 he clocked 14.4(roughly hand timed) secs for the full length
thats off the ball (which was pain as i had to set fixed player lol)
lets say the football pitch is 104m
and lets say its a soft pitch and allow a gererous half second for that
even with that they are way off being realistic
walcott (speed 97) he should be running the full length in at least 11.2-12.0 secs
so the game players are around 83 percent of the speed they should
so in the pro evo world the fastest players can only clock a 14.0 for the 100m
thats way off realisim
in pes 2012 he clocked 14.4(roughly hand timed) secs for the full length
thats off the ball (which was pain as i had to set fixed player lol)
lets say the football pitch is 104m
and lets say its a soft pitch and allow a gererous half second for that
even with that they are way off being realistic
walcott (speed 97) he should be running the full length in at least 11.2-12.0 secs
so the game players are around 83 percent of the speed they should
so in the pro evo world the fastest players can only clock a 14.0 for the 100m
thats way off realisim
Sabatasso
Banned
Gamespeed varies independently from the speed option, so the same player at same form will most likely run at different times depending on the chosen opponent, where good teams usually "provokes" a faster, more arcade-ish gamespeed. That's actually a huge flaw with the game from the core if you ask me.
MysteryMan
Registered User
KONAMI really is dumb, why overrate someone because he is a cover star??? where the hell is realism??
LOL, how can ronaldo's dribbling accuracy ( a stat which rarely improves by much in middle nad late stages of a soccer player career ) rise by 10 in 1 year? fking ridicilous serously...
LOL, how can ronaldo's dribbling accuracy ( a stat which rarely improves by much in middle nad late stages of a soccer player career ) rise by 10 in 1 year? fking ridicilous serously...
Borini will be slightly better I imagine, although he has a way to go before being much better.
As for the Copa Libretadores player's, this is so annoying, the same applies for teams in the "other european" spot or youngsters at other team, not just are their technical stats poor but they can barely move, they have no pace or strength and their responses are that of a dead cat most of the time, they are so frustrating to play with.
On the Ronaldo issue, as pointed out, there is little difference between 97 and 98 and 99, as there is with 94, 95 or 96. Giving Ronaldo a few more points here won't really effect the way he moves. I would argue however that Ronaldo is a bit different than your normal dribbler, people talk about his tricks and dives but if you actually watch him frequently, particularly in his time at Madrid, he is a more direct player, puts the ball by a player and just runs most of the time, when called upon though, he can change direction in a second and move away from a player, if this is the only way to replicate it in the game then so be it.
I think the people who care about the accuracy and stats should focus on players where they are actually overrated/uderrated, Heskey was faster than most defenders in the last game, Seedorf was one of the best all round midfielders, Lampard is far too quick, D Cisse is too fast as well in his all round movements, Bramble is rated around 83, better than some of the worlds best centre backs.
Amateur
Registered User
This is the problem with a D-PAD SYSTEM working on a 3D WORLD, the fact that something that is completely unrelated to the actual skill of the gamer, determines the effectiveness of the dribble.
If a player has 99 Dribbling Accuracy, then how are you supposed to CONSISTENTLY stop him?
---------------------------------------------------------------
PES and FIFA both revolve around the same PS1 era mechanics:
1st -- zigzag with the left analog stick + press and hold the R2 button.....
2nd -- zigzag (yet again) with the left analog stick + suddenly release the R2 button + (yet again) zigzag with the left analog stick....
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Doing zigzags with the left analog stick, is not nearly good enough, to determine all the intricacies involved in dribbling.....
(1st) direction of dribbling / direction of movement within space.
(2nd) direction of running / direction of movement through space.
(3rd) direction that the ball carrier is looking towards / visual perspective.
(4th) direction of the pass.
(5th) direction of the shot.
(6th) speed at which you move with the ball.
All these numerous and individual factors, are all simultaneously determined, by merely directing the left analog stick *without* the assistance of any other button.... You can begin to contemplate, just how many completely different factors undermine each other, due to being simultaneously determined/affected by simply directing the left analog stick *without* the assistance of any other button.
To start with, you cannot determine if you want to place the ball between both legs, or to the right side of the body, or to the left side of the body..... because by simply directing the left analog stick *without* the assistance of any other button: the ball carrier will not only move through space, but he will also touch the ball towards the given direction.
That is a very massive deficiency, because it means that, as a gamer, you have little or no control over dribbling, because the system itself cannot distinguish between the DIRECTION OF RUNNING and the DIRECTION OF DRIBBLING, because merely directing the left analog stick *without* the assistance of any other button, is enough to simultaneously determine both the DIRECTION OF RUNNING (ball carrier moves through space) and the DIRECTION OF DRIBBLING (ball carrier touches the ball towards the given direction)..... which means that the direction in which the player runs through space, and the direction in which the player touches the ball, is effectively one identical factor.
When playing football, have you ever done the following procedure: run towards the north, and suddenly stop running, yet still looking towards the north, and then tap the ball backwards so that the ball ends up positioned behind your feet, all this whilst still looking towards the same direction that you were running through a few seconds ago?
Try doing that in either PES13 or FIFA13, and the outcome will be simple: ball carrier runs towards the north, suddenly stops running, turns around with the ball glued to his feet, now looking towards the newly determined direction, and also, automatically touching the ball towards the newly given direction....
The direction in which you run with the ball, the direction in which you touch the ball, and the direction that you are looking towards, are all one factor, as opposed to individual factors. This is why the replay value of FIFA and PES is as poor as it is, because there is no real depth nor any real consistency to the system.
And since you cannot actually have any real control over dribbling because the system itself is not accurate enough to give you that type of control, the standing tackle system (and sliding tackle system) is also based purely on timing, because no button determines neither (a) the direction of the standing tackle nor (b) the distance of the standing tackle within the given direction.
How can I feint that I am going right without the necessity of touching the ball?
By using the link-feints system, and using the "upper body feint" copy-paste animation, time and time again: that is, on paper, repetitively holding the R2 button + then directing the right analog stick towards the right + simultaneously directing the left analog stick.... just to do something as simple as a body feint....
Yet something that involves more factors, such as running with the ball and simultaneously dribbling with the ball, is much simpler to do: simply zigzag the left analog stick + press, hold, and release, the R2 button every now and then.... and that's how easy it is to do something that in real life is quite intricate due to all the essential factors that play a part in the outcome of the procedure.
Does it make sense that, in PES, easy things are more difficult to do, whilst much more complicated things are significantly easier to pull off? That's clear evidence of a fundamentally broken system.
So how exactly do you stop a player with 99 Dribbling Accuracy? I mean, if as a defender you pull off the perfect standing tackle; then, who is it that determines that the 99 Dribbling Genius is not going to dribble straight past you even though you just pulled off a perfect standing tackle?
There's no real consistency to the system, no button actually determines the actual effectiveness or success-rate of dribbling, which means that the statistics end up overriding the game (which is why the higher the difficulty, the more the computer will cheat the game by boosting statistics), therefore effectively undermining your ability as a gamer.
It is a very flawed system, and it is the reason why no matter how good PES13 might be, I will still be disappointed with the game, because we shouldn't be using the same old d-pad based stats-system in year 2013.
That's why I don't like it when a player has a 99 Dribbling Accuracy, because you know that a lot of people will abuse such players when playing online, and you know that it doesn't matter how hard you practice, because you know that Lio Messi will dribble straight past you, maybe not all the time, but it will happen at least twice per game, which is enough to CONSISTENTLY affect the outcome of the game.
Just like real life? You say? Well Lio Messi dribbling straight past you on a CONSISTENT basis, is not the problem, the problem is how Messi will CONSISTENTLY dribble through you *regardless* of the actual ability of the gamer who is controlling Messi, that's the problem.
It would not be a problem if we had a proper dribbling system as well as a proper tackling system, that allowed you to CONSISTENTLY stop players with 99 Dribbling Accuracy, but unfortunately that's not the case with PES.
I can look past the massive deficiencies in order to enjoy the game to the best of my ability, but I'm not going to pretend that 99 Dribbling Accuracy is not bullshit if you consider how the system works.
pes89
Registered User
Remember though Footballers run on grass in football boots. They dont run on perfect flooring in training shoes like sprinters.
Also remember sprinters relax and only do that one time. If they restarted and went again 5 minutes later they wouldnt get near their original time.
A footballer runs about for 90 minutes, if they ran 100m in 14 seconds during a game theyd need 3 minutes atleast to recover.
alessiocerci
Registered User
Football boots are ok for sprinting in , Nike Mercurial Glides are designed with speed in mind
and modern football pitches are perfect surfaces and wouldnt cost you much time i doubt even half a second
even if you give a full second for the conditions the fastest players should still be clocking around 12-12.5 secs
I just tried with walcott again but with pes 2013 and he clocked 14.8 secs
it makes the game seem slow and off the pace
and its not really that hard for top athletes to sprint and need very little time to recover
i remember reading about david haye training for Maccarinelli
and he has body weight around 15 stones yet he does 100 100m sprints with only 30 secs rest after each sprint and each 100m clocking under 14 secs
and for the last 20 sprints he only gets 15 secs rest and runs them at 13.5 second pace
boxers are very fit but thats a big muscle guy doing that and he is not known for having good stamina either, he gassed bad against chisora in 5 rounds and i thought lucky to knock him out, i am sure elite footballers should be the same fitness as haye or even more
VERMINATOR
Registered User
PES ratings are notoriously ridiculous. I just can't believe Van Perise is only an 86 or 88 if you play him as a SS. He should be at least a 92 in my opinion. Arguably the finest forward in Europe outside of Messi and Ronaldo.