Solution to Real/Barca/Brazil abusers

[Kubi_KZ]

Abstract:

This is a prelimary poll to gain an understanding of how the PES community feels about online matches mostly ending up being repetitive.

This poll does not offer a solution, as solutions will be posted in another poll, once the requirement of such a solution is established at the end of this poll.

Please see the bottom of this post for a shortlist of solutions to be voted for in the next poll.

Background:

Most online ranking matches are usually destined to be Real vs Barca or Brazil vs Argentina etc., i.e. usually a top team vs top team. This leads to monotony and a restricted online experience.

Reasons for this phenomenon may be various, however it can be safely assumed that players are not selecting the aforementioned teams because they support them. Many people will seem to enter their favorite local team in their profile, but end up not playing with them.

Due to online players attempting to maintain or gain rating points, more than often the most promising teams are chosen.

Hence, the servers become oversaturated with Real Madrid and Barca players.

It is in the interest of Konami to ensure a satisfying and colorful online experience.

If you believe that Konami shall provide a system that will encourage people to play with a wide spectrum of teams, please vote as yes, and perhaps add your own ideas as how this can be achieved.

A follow up poll will be conducted afterwards with the best ideas suggested, and hopefully we can publish the results to Konami.

Cheers

EDIT:

Here is a shortlist of matured solutions. To see the full description of the solution, please click on the solution below or scroll down, and look for the title and text in bold.

1 - Levelling all player stats for ranked matches. (credit to steviegags and willmo)

2 - The stronger your team is, in relation to the opposition team, the less ranking points you receive. (credit to douglas93)

3 - Free market system.

4 - A happy hour system.

5 - Option to limit teams to those only as strong as the host's, or less.

6 - Rating teams as 1 star to 5 stars, and creating rooms to restrict to X-star teams.

7 - The only way to exceed a rating of 600 (or any number Konami sees fit) is by choosing non-top tier teams (credit to Decryptus)

 

[steviegags]

for JUST ranked games could'nt konami level out all players stats at say 80 so every team is equal.then you could see who are the real good players.ea do something similar for fight night in the world champ mode.or start with relagation teams while your in d4 and you only play other like minded teams.then move up to mid table teams in d3.d2 could be europa lge teams d1 champs lge teams..cant be that hard to sort out for konami?

 

[Kubi_KZ]

Solution 1

Thanks for your input.

Levelling all players stats would definitely ensure equal chances.

However, I hope you agree this only addresses part of the problem, that is the part of unfair teams.

There is another side to the story, and that is monotony. The original problem described in the first post is that matches turn out to be repetetive, always with the same teams.

Now, your solution may seem to encourage different team names to appear for ranking matches, but, on the other hand, will also mean that people will be forced to play the same team, whatever name it has.

The problem of repetiveness will even be more persistent this way, as not only the teams all be exactly the same, but also the all the players will exactly be the same as per your solution.

Nevertheless, you are not the first person to offer this solution, so I will include it in the next poll where the all the solutions will be offered and voted for.

I have had a similar discussion with someone who had suggested the same as you before (a guy called willmo). Here is a quote of myself of how I feel about this solution.

Secondly, one could argue that if all the stats of all teams were set to equal, it would not be their team anymore. Eg, the Czech Repuplic team would not be the same if Jan Koller was on the same height with everyone else. I believe every team has a distinct flavour, and the beauty of football is to see these flavours react with each other.

I believe it is possible to have fair ranked matches without having to play with identical teams and players.

As I said, we need a colorful online experience, that can offer variety and never gets boring.

 

[douglas93]

Surely 1 simple answer is that if you win playing as Real / Barca etc you just get less ranking points?

Anyhow 2 points I would make - if you play against Real choose Chelsea - great defence. Also suggest to the player on the way in that he plays as the team he supports - they will sometimes change. Obviously some just ignore you but worth a try.

 

[Kubi_KZ]

Solution 2

Surely 1 simple answer is that if you win playing as Real / Barca etc you just get less ranking points?

I assume you mean that in general, the stronger your team is, the less ranking points you receive.

I definitely agree, however, I believe this rule has to be in relation to the strength of the opposition team.

That would mean that if you choose Barca, and I choose Galatasaray, the following would happen:

You win --> You get 1 ranking points, I lose 1.
Draw --> You lose 3 points, I get 3.
You lose --> You lose 9 points, I get 9.

Lets say we have equal teams, then:

You win --> You get 3 ranking points, I lose 3.
Draw --> Nothing happens.
You lose --> You lose 3 points, I get 3.

In addition to all this, the amount of points gained or loss should be further raised or lowered according to the difference between your individual rating and mine.

I hope I made it clear.

This way when a top team plays against a lower team, they naturally have a better chance of winning due to their strength, however they will be punished very harsh if they lose.

If the top team player does not want to face the risk of losing all those points, he has to take a team more equal to the opponent.

At the same time, the player with the lower team will always have a "safety net" and not lose many points because he was brave enough to remain loyal to his lower team and did not run crying into the hands of Cristiano and Messi.

This will be the second solution to be in the follow-up poll.

Anyhow 2 points I would make - if you play against Real choose Chelsea - great defence. Also suggest to the player on the way in that he plays as the team he supports - they will sometimes change. Obviously some just ignore you but worth a try.

Thanks for the tip, but please let's try to focus here on what Konami has to do for us, and not what we have to do against Real.

There are many other threads relating to how to play against Real.

Regards

 

[Kubi_KZ]

Solution 3

How would you guys feel about a "free market" system?

Let me explain..

The amount of ranking points one would gain when successful with a certain team, is determined by the number of people who have played online with that team the previous day.

Similar to the law of supply and demand in economics, the more people want something, the more expensive it gets.

Basically, if everyone plays Real, then the reward of winning with Real gets less and less.

I believe this will encourage people to rotate their team selection and actively search for undiscovered gems.

Imagine this:

You log in, select ranking match mode.

You get the daily "price list" of all the teams, and see that as expected, most people had played with Real and Barca the day before. So it is not worth "investing" in that team, as you would not receive many points if you win.

However, you see that AC Milan is quite down the list and you are informed that you would potentially earn twice as many points per victory as with Real.

So there you go, you have one team for the day!

However, next day you realize you were not the only smart person, and Milan is way up the list. So you look again..

Keep in mind that there are more than 100 teams and that your local favorite teams will usually remain unpopular and promise lots of points.

And also keep in mind that Real and Barca supporters will still get points, but just not as many as less popular teams.

I look forward to reading your thoughts on this.

This will be the third solution on the next poll.

And please, feel free to add your own creative ideas!

 

[Kubi_KZ]

Solution 4

Another possible solution could be a "happy hour" system.

Every couple of hours, a handful of teams (around 10 or so) would be identified as happy hour teams.

They could be selected randomly, and give the user extra bonus points if victorious.

Cheers

 

[Kubi_KZ]

Solution 5

Here is a solution I had in mind last year.

A practical and easily implementable solution to avoid most online matches from becoming "Barca vs Barca" would be to have an option to limit the teams available, once the host player has chosen a team, to teams only similar in strength (or less in strength), where the strength of a team is simply measured by the area of the pentagon shown when choosing teams (the pentagon based on the attack, defence, speed, teamwork and technique of the team).

This solution would be dynamic and also change in the future with transfers that make teams stronger or weaker.

Do not forget that this limiting mechanism would be optional and is up to the host while creating the match room.

There would also be a sign next to the room name indicating it has this feature enabled, to avoid frustration later on.

This shall be listed as solution 5.

 

[forken]

well to me its doesnt matter cuz I play with shaktar donest and I win or draw and get more point than my opponents who playing barca, real or brazil, anyway if you play good football and keep posession the other team will not win since it will affect their performance

 

[0-0-10]

well to me its doesnt matter cuz I play with shaktar donest and I win or draw and get more point than my opponents who playing barca, real or brazil, anyway if you play good football and keep posession the other team will not win since it will affect their performance

Hm, maybe it was you I met some days ago then? I was AIK and met a guy with shakhtar who beat me with 3-2 after picking up my 2-0 lead. :realmad: If its you I dont get how you get so good results. Im always AIK and Im able to create good chances to win a lot of games against the top teams, but there are always, always where they score from nothing which isnt even a chance. I tried shakhtar and they are pretty good, but still far away from the top teams.

 

[Kubi_KZ]

Solution 6

There could also be a solution as following.

I am not very fond of this idea, however, it came up on several threads last year so I will include it as the 6th possible solution.

The teams could be each given a "star rating", from one star teams to five star teams.

Then one could create a match room restricted to 3 star teams and below etc. to encourage variety.

The main reason I am not too fond of this idea is that this might lead to people now only playing with the best 4 star teams, and only with the best 3 star team etc.

However, the above scenario would still be more pleasant than what we have today.

 

[Decryptus]

I'm sorry but thats not gonna solve the problem!
In my opinion KONAMI should work harder on this game all around. This game is just wrong in so many ways that it dosent reflect real soccer at all (like they proudly anounced it will be).
Things like AI-pressure, double-up defence, should be taken down or at least should have an effect on the teams agility as the game progress.
The Dribbling thru players is just plain stupid, some players are unstopable which makes this game more arcade then ever.

Let the user make the game with a real build-up game using his/her creativity to crack up the defence. THATS WHAT REAL SOCCER IS ALL ABOUT!

 

[micronian]

how about just doing it like it's done with local league soccer:

when you're online, just choose the "league" you want to play in:
-a "recreational/beginner" league, with no rank...possibly limited to people with less than 50-60 online matches played.

-a "middle" league, which is more difficult but also with no rank

-an "elite" league, with ranks/ML teams/trophies/full voice chat-so all the wankers can go there and get their precious 700+ rank and leave the other divisions to people who just want to play at their own pace.

 

[Kubi_KZ]

I'm sorry but thats not gonna solve the problem!
In my opinion KONAMI should work harder on this game all around. This game is just wrong in so many ways that it dosent reflect real soccer at all (like they proudly anounced it will be).
Things like AI-pressure, double-up defence, should be taken down or at least should have an effect on the teams agility as the game progress.
The Dribbling thru players is just plain stupid, some players are unstopable which makes this game more arcade then ever.

Let the user make the game with a real build-up game using his/her creativity to crack up the defence. THATS WHAT REAL SOCCER IS ALL ABOUT!

I understand what you mean, and I agree that if PES was just perfect, this poll would be unnecessary.

However, I invite you to be a bit more realistic. PES most likely will not be perfect soon, however, until then, the above ideas, which will not require an additional 200+ software engineers, might make the game more tolerable online.

 

[Kubi_KZ]

how about just doing it like it's done with local league soccer:

when you're online, just choose the "league" you want to play in:
-a "recreational/beginner" league, with no rank...possibly limited to people with less than 50-60 online matches played.

-a "middle" league, which is more difficult but also with no rank

-an "elite" league, with ranks/ML teams/trophies/full voice chat-so all the wankers can go there and get their precious 700+ rank and leave the other divisions to people who just want to play at their own pace.

Your idea sounds promising, but could you please elaborate further?

At the moment it seems like you suggest seperate server lobbies (not really leagues as there will be no rank) for solely non ranked friendly matches.

If I misinterpreted your idea, please correct me.

Cheers

 

[Decryptus]

I understand what you mean, and I agree that if PES was just perfect, this poll would be unnecessary.

However, I invite you to be a bit more realistic. PES most likely will not be perfect soon, however, until then, the above ideas, which will not require an additional 200+ software engineers, might make the game more tolerable online.

Nobody said the game should be perfect and I know what it takes being a software engineer myself (just aint possible... at least not now). Nevertheless some properties of this game makes it trible for playing against other human players, it seams to me that Konami did a poor job in this aspect of the game. It doesnt take a genius to figure out that things like dribble skills of some players and high pressure all the time and also the ranking system are what we call a failure in the specs, I mean where were the QA guys?

Anyways to directly address the problam of ranking - there are many things that bothers me, but I purpose the following which sounds to me like a fair enough solution:

1. If a player always uses the best teams he cannot pass a certain point of ranking - which is another way of saying 'proove that u can do this things without Ronaldo and Messi'.

2. The game should present a map of points you gonna get according to the chosen team, this should be done in the team selecting stage which will reward the players according to their achivments in the game. For example: basic points of win loose or draw according to the selected team + points for high scoreing, possession of the ball, scoreing opportunities - misses, tackles - I mean they map the statistics of the game in the end why not use them here also. Ofcourse features like the player's current ranking should also taken in consideration but not as much as they do now.

3.The game must offer a player the right to not compete with certain opponents IN THE TEAM SELECTING STAGE. This will have two major effects: first a player will not be bounded to play against barcelona 6 times in a row like now. Second it will drive users to choose some other teams - after being refused several times picking Barca and Real. In order to achive this and to prevent cheating by replacing the team 2 seconds before the time is up, Konami should add another step of 'Approve Team' which means that once you've selected a team you cant replace it, here comes the cancel option in hand again which offers you a way of regreting your selection without deceiving your opponent.

 

[Kubi_KZ]

Solution 7

1. If a player always uses the best teams he cannot pass a certain point of ranking - which is another way of saying 'proove that u can do this things without Ronaldo and Messi'.

This shall be solution 7: You get no ranking points if for example you already have more than 600, and you choose a top team. The only way to exceed a rating of 600 (or any number Konami sees fit) is by choosing second class teams etc.

 

[gerzinio]

This shall be solution 7: You get no ranking points if for example you already have more than 600, and you choose a top team. The only way to exceed a rating of 600 (or any number Konami sees fit) is by choosing second class teams etc.

hi hi can i just add,mark up messi and ronaldo most of these guys have no game,have beaten real/barca with spurs loads of times am on 585 points now keep taking there points they will soon get sick of being found out and get some game imo!!

keep the faith..

 

[Kubi_KZ]

hi hi can i just add,mark up messi and ronaldo most of these guys have no game,have beaten real/barca with spurs loads of times am on 585 points now keep taking there points they will soon get sick of being found out and get some game imo!!

keep the faith..

Thank you for your advice. Yes, man marking those players do help and I do so as well.

However, beating Barcelona is not the topic of this thread/poll. Even if I were to beat them 100% all the time (which I don't claim to do), I would still get bored of having to play against barca all the time.

This is the reason why I have set up this poll.

Just to make it absolutely clear, this poll is not asking for advice on how to beat barcaboys, it is how to avoid having to play against them in the first place.

Regards

Kubi

 

[canarianfrank]

2 - The stronger your team is, in relation to the opposition team, the less ranking points you receive. (credit to douglas93)

This is already in the game mate. If you beat Barca with Tenerife you get far more points for the win then Barca would get for winning. Even drawing a game would mean Barca lose points and Tenerife win points.

Like the other suggestions though :up:

Best way is to allow creation of a room that will limit to quality of teams used to x.