Spamming of Speed Merchants/throughballs?

[Sabatasso]

It isn't that hard to stop those through balls unless you have very slow defenders. I notice that people tend to favor big, slow and strong center backs as well. Well, pick one or two fast ones instead, and you are close to solving the damn issue.

You don't need huge defenders, you need fast ones that have high Defense and Responsiveness as well, as you don't need to win the air duels but rather pressure the striker to miss the goal.

 

[Ronaldoughnut]

basically one quick defender and one big strong defender and a defensive midfielder to pressurize the playmaker.

 

[Griciu]

Just two defenders that are both strong and fast (eg. B speed B phys), such as Ramos, Perea, etc. I still go for Chiellini, guys a beast! Ever since I got my MLO defense upgraded, I'm winning most of my games!

To the canadian dude, how about you get better at defending, eh?

 

[Sabatasso]

Ideally you have all round defenders in every position, Griciu... But when starting out I prefer Speed, Response, Defense, Balance, Jumping and Height in that order. 83+ Speed is required to be bought as CD for me, I can use slower central midfielders but I rather not. I don't care about "Speed Merchants" though, or any cards to be honest.

 

[WALK_ON_GR33N]

Whether you play a deep line or a high line, it will influence your defending a lot. Some people prefer to play a deep line and just manually defend the through balls and therefore absorb everything. A high line would just negate through balls completely, but you would need to know how to precisely time the pass and move your player forward and therefore playing the offside trap. I don't understand how you people can't figure this out and cry about the speed and physicality. However, i'm in the top 1000 in the world and you aren't, which might explain why.

 

[Griciu]

Ideally you have all round defenders in every position, Griciu... But when starting out I prefer Speed, Response, Defense, Balance, Jumping and Height in that order. 83+ Speed is required to be bought as CD for me, I can use slower central midfielders but I rather not. I don't care about "Speed Merchants" though, or any cards to be honest.

Oh man how i'm starting to miss the early days of MLO, when you're just a beginner, planning accordingly, being a penny pincher. Choosing your players wisely by correctly understanding their stats, and just as important, their skill cards!

 

[Sabatasso]

However, i'm in the top 1000 in the world and you aren't, which might explain why.

You're a loser then, only number 1 is winner... your own words.

 

[WALK_ON_GR33N]

You're a loser then, only number 1 is winner... your own words.

Don't hate me because i beat you, respect me because i teach you.

 

[iamcanadianeh]

what position?

Mostly LMF, but also RMF, SS, SB, CMF, AMF and DMF. I was always too short to be a CB, but played it a bit indoors and it was actually an awesome position for me.

As for my defending abilities, again, a lot of you are missing my point. I don't give up that many goals due to the speed merchant up the middle, but when I do all I'm saying is that the goals seemed undefendable and unrealistic, especially when the break away comes on the quick counter and the striker is miles away from any defender.

Also, it has been pointed out quite astutely by others that if you watch the way the AI defend when it is not you controlling the defender manually, that the CB who should be covering is often either way out of position, or moves out of position as the pass is coming over the top. This is quite simply a problem with the game, and it needs to be fixed. It's a no lose situation if it were fixed and made more realistic, because the only people who would suffer are those who constantly spam the through ball, and honestly even they would benefit in the long run because they would actually have to learn to play the game properly, with a bit of build up play, knocking it back and maintaining possession. And that's my final point (which I have already made) -- that I'm not complaining about losing, I'm complaining about the shite football people are playing online. It's just not fun to play against someone who plays like they know nothing about the real game and for whom winning is the only important thing even if it means playing like a noob.

 

[Gtks]

In the real world there is no defender faster than any attacker they use systems to stop them. All the posts have some strong points but the most important in defending is the cooperation between the lines.

To a 4-3-3 system I use I add the covering card even to my players at the center and all the defenders! It will help you build a better solid defense even with slow defenders. By pressing the pass button and speed button you control only one player the rest of them will try to close any opening better by covering space.

In the end of course there are ways to break any defense at the right timing always.

 

[iamcanadianeh]

In the real world there is no defender faster than any attacker they use systems to stop them. All the posts have some strong points but the most important in defending is the cooperation between the lines.

To a 4-3-3 system I use I add the covering card even to my players at the center and all the defenders! It will help you build a better solid defense even with slow defenders. By pressing the pass button and speed button you control only one player the rest of them will try to close any opening better by covering space.

In the end of course there are ways to break any defense at the right timing always.

Isn't the covering card a thing of the past?

 

[Gtks]

Isn't the covering card a thing of the past?

I don't have any experience on pess 2013, they removed the passer card and i don't have fun building something beyond pess 2011 if they removed and the covering card you can tell me.

In the real world if you don't have the strength to cover you take the highway...

Ps there is an alternative way anyway, you can press the shoot button and the speed button while you controlling 1 player and this will call your teammates to run and double block, i guess you may call it a cover.

I guess if you learn how can change from pass and run to shoot and run while you defending it builds the cover you always need. You can draw at the back the player you controlling and try to manually cover some space, to intercept the possible pass, while the rest of the team is running all over the players that has the bal.

In the end the COVERING of space is always more important than anything. I'm doing all these even when i have the covering card all over, no shit! 4-3-3 isn't easy to play it anyway.

 

[Soccerdude]

what do you mean in real world no defender is faster than an attacker? are you kidding me? there are back-tracking defenders/DM who are really quick and depending upon their intelligence they can cut off the attacker from the ball....

if anything intelligent defenders are quicker at backtracking the attacker since attacker isn't always as quick on the ball(due to ball control) as he is off the ball...it all depends really.

 

[Gtks]

if you fast enough they move you at the top but can all please stop trash talking I'm thinking ways to build a defense the op of this thread needs.

I reedit the message a couple of times, I mean they remove and the covering card? How on earth you can build cooperation between the lines in this game?

try to do what i asked and tell me if it works.

PS you can see this:

http://www.pesgaming.com/showthread.php?t=84922&page=2

The marking settings, i have no clue if they removed also and this, but you can put someone running around the lamer that always scoring. Without the covering card you can't build something really complex, I mean p2011 is the best and it always be the best no shit...

Add and marking from your defense mild fielder to his playmaker at the top if you have to strangle the pint point pass at the begin!

 

[Sabatasso]

Don't hate me because i beat you, respect me because i teach you.

You didn't, you just repeated what I've been saying from the start of "through ball whines". I've never had an issue with it tbh.


PS. Nice bro rhymes there, doesn't tickle my whistle though.

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Ps there is an alternative way anyway, you can press the shoot button and the speed button while you controlling 1 player and this will call your teammates to run and double block, i guess you may call it a cover.

Are you REALLY that dense?

You create cover by covering with the player you actively control and send the AI teammate to pressure the ball carrier by pressing those button you mentioned.

You were so close, and still didn't see it...

 

[iamcanadianeh]

You didn't, you just repeated what I've been saying from the start of "through ball whines". I've never had an issue with it tbh.


PS. Nice bro rhymes there, doesn't tickle my whistle though.

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Are you REALLY that dense?

You create cover by covering with the player you actively control and send the AI teammate to pressure the ball carrier by pressing those button you mentioned.

You were so close, and still didn't see it...

The covering card is gone. Sure, there are manual options, but that's not what we're talking about. The covering card used to mean that a defender was good at covering up holes in the backline left by other players. It was a nice non-manual option that would really help with PES 2013 (if we had it still).

Also, I should point out that PES 2013 is a lot different from PES 2011. This discussion is really not at all about how to defend well in other versions of PES. I've never had any problem in the past, and again, I'm not saying it's a huge problem for me, I'm just saying it is ruining the game to a degree because it encourages people to play like crap, and that it is extremely unrealistic when it does work for them.

Anyway, I have the thought now that perhaps increasing the position switch slider might have an effect (similar to the covering card of old). Will giver a shot and see... I'm still looking for the "ultimate settings" for sliders and gameplan that will make the throughball so ineffective that players will have to stop using it against me (without sacrificing my team's offensive tactics too much that is).

 

[Gtks]

You didn't, you just repeated what I've been saying from the start of "through ball whines". I've never had an issue with it tbh.


PS. Nice bro rhymes there, doesn't tickle my whistle though.

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Are you REALLY that dense?

You create cover by covering with the player you actively control and send the AI teammate to pressure the ball carrier by pressing those button you mentioned.

You were so close, and still didn't see it...

Are you taking something? I called it manual covering space as with your player you trying to intercept the pass. They broke my nerves a bit but in the end who cares the marking settings are working in this game?

And what about the changing in position some teams play i mean the defender will follow the cf at the back and he may find an opening in there the covering card was also helping if with your defense mild fielder do some dribbling someone else was coming to cover the marked player! I mean this card is a must think about it.

Is never a good practice to put more than 1-2 markings in this game the changing positions may screw your lines, trust me.

PS iamcanadianeh now we are talking =;-) you can increase it you may the have the result you talking about for defense but it also creates openings if the other party is using markings without the covering card is an attacking plan you move the cf out of position at the back or the cf moves at the back automatically, someone else is coming to cover the cf position automatic! It may happen when you changing some pass at the back, the thing we call defensive holding the ball for some time? A big open hole with a free roaming player in there is waiting the pint point pass.

My question is how we can cover this hole any ideas?

PS2 i forgot:

For what is worth sosa came looking like xavi alonso, i have 3 playmakers 2 of them pint point pass at the middle! An over lapping run from the right and 1 play maker waiting at the substitutes, Cesc Fàbregas, that was not in perfect condition for that game. The issue is the setting in teams style that iamcanadianeh was talking about.

 

[Sabatasso]

I don't like the autocover system too much, it's "too perfect" and while what we have now is too imperfect I prefer it that way.

 

[Soccerdude]

I don't like the autocover system too much, it's "too perfect" and while what we have now is too imperfect I prefer it that way.

the same way that we prefer unless we are pitched against some idiot whose idea about football is restricted to spamming through ball to van der mirch/Eto'o/Doumbia.

The fact that Van der mirch is the most owned striker and that Perea is the most own defender in the game is a proof enough how Konami needs to balance out the game in the next patch.

 

[Sabatasso]

I am saying that I don't struggle with those through balls, play a deeper defense, use fast and responsive defenders and those long punts aren't an issue. I don't have any of the players you've named, and I still manage perfectly fine.