The sum of all fears, or why PES5 is harder than PES4

[Stardusted]

Reason 1 : Abnormally, really annoying, stupidly wrong passes at times, and completely useless through balls near the oppositions box (specially the L1+Triangle ones). I mean, you CAN'T do a lobbed through ball even in the shortest of distances, cause your players feel like by L1+Triangle you are telling them to shoot the ball straight ahead to the keeper. And to all the "go practise manual pass" dudes, yes manual passes work semi-well, but they are a different gameplay aspect of the game. The fact remains, through balls are broken this time.

Reason 2 : Ref's first words when born should have been "frssssssssssst!". Someone should remove the whistle off of these guys. Seriously, it is a physical sport, right?

Reason 3 : Ref's first degree relationship with the opposition, when CPU controlled. Only thing he doesnt do is celebrating their goals with them...

Reason 4 : The switching between your players when defending oftenly lags. And it is annoying like hell.

Reason 4 (Sum) : One word, one dreadful word that was up till now only in FIFAs. SCRIPTED.

So there you go, yes it is harder than PES4. But for all the wrong reasons.

And just because I know many will go the "go practise/play fifa" way, I should inform them in advance that I still consider PES5 superior to any other soccer/football title around, including PES4 in some ways.

So what's the point of posting so many threads about it ? Well, me and anyone else who does that certainly wont get paid for their posts. What we do is point at the faults, underline the bads highlights the broken parts of our favorite game, so that they eventually get fixed.

It is called feedback.

 

[kingersalad]

I don't think the officials call fouls too often. I just think that the players in the game foul too often.
It's particularily annoying that they're still allowed to push from behind and get no card for it.

 

[Aaronarid]

Reason 1. Agree with you, only L1 and triangle balls that seem to work are the sweeping cross field balls from around 10-15 yards each side of the half way line. Even someone with the skill and talent of ronaldinho can't perform a little chipped ball through when close to the box.

Reason 2. Partially agree. It doesn't bother me too much when playing against the computer ( mainly cos of my agreement of reason 3), or against a pro veteran, I think I've kinda adapted to the tackling and have managed to go a game or two with no fouls at all. When playing against an 'average' player tho, can get pretty frustrating when they are constantly running into the back of your players, and instead of the two players having a bit of a phyiscal tussle, the referee whistles for a foul.

Reason 3. Completely agree, didnt realise this as much until I got into my master league, but I have been through maybe 6 seasons and am yet to see a Red card for the opposition, and very few yellows. Some games I have had the shit kicked out of me but the ref has let it go unpunished. One game i played recently, twice was running through on goal, and the last defender has taken me down just as i was entering the box, one resulted in a yellow, one resulted in nothing. Both were penalties tho.....

Reason 4. Can't say I have any basis to agree with this. However one thing I do find is that sometimes when I'm running with ball, I'll go to press maybe L1 and circle whilst I'm mid-stride so that i can send in a quick cross, and suddenly my cursor is on another player and the player I had possesion of the ball with is jsut kinda running aimlessly.

I wouldn't say there was a scripted feel to the game, the more I'm playing it the greater the variety of goals I'm scoring, although I don't think I'm gonna be able to reach the creativness of play I had in pes4, although time will tell.

 

[jathe]

Imagine if someone would make a soccer game where it wasn't you controlling one player and being able to change vs the computer (who i think is also scripted like it is one player who changes albeit very quickly) i.e. your team mates are not standing around doing nothing if you're not controlling them...

 

[un_peacekeeper]

I don't think the officials call fouls too often. I just think that the players in the game foul too often.
It's particularily annoying that they're still allowed to push from behind and get no card for it.

then you should have a look at this

http://forum.pesinsight.com/showthread.php?t=31311
it's a bloody punch, for crying out loud.

 

[Usul]

Playing against the COM on six star is just completely useless. They didnt increase the difficulty they just made it extremely disadvantageous and very predictable i may add. In a few weeks you will have dozens of guys saying how they always beat the COM in six stars and they score five or seven goals everytime...

The one thing that really pisses me off is the through passes. Some say that you should lob it and it works but why the hell should i lob the damn thing when the high through ball option exists...? It doesnt work well and it should be addressed. Maybe it just needs some type of calibration not a lot of programming. In the other hand, how can they allow such a huge error to go unnoticed? We all saw this when the demo came out and most of us assumed they would fix it for the full game but not a thing was done about it.

 

[pes_kim]

Reason 1 : Abnormally, really annoying, stupidly wrong passes at times, and completely useless through balls near the oppositions box (specially the L1+Triangle ones). I mean, you CAN'T do a lobbed through ball even in the shortest of distances, cause your players feel like by L1+Triangle you are telling them to shoot the ball straight ahead to the keeper. And to all the "go practise manual pass" dudes, yes manual passes work semi-well, but they are a different gameplay aspect of the game. The fact remains, through balls are broken this time.

Reason 2 : Ref's first words when born should have been "frssssssssssst!". Someone should remove the whistle off of these guys. Seriously, it is a physical sport, right?

Reason 3 : Ref's first degree relationship with the opposition, when CPU controlled. Only thing he doesnt do is celebrating their goals with them...

Reason 4 : The switching between your players when defending oftenly lags. And it is annoying like hell.

Reason 4 (Sum) : One word, one dreadful word that was up till now only in FIFAs. SCRIPTED.

So there you go, yes it is harder than PES4. But for all the wrong reasons.

And just because I know many will go the "go practise/play fifa" way, I should inform them in advance that I still consider PES5 superior to any other soccer/football title around, including PES4 in some ways.

So what's the point of posting so many threads about it ? Well, me and anyone else who does that certainly wont get paid for their posts. What we do is point at the faults, underline the bads highlights the broken parts of our favorite game, so that they eventually get fixed.

It is called feedback.

Reply to

Reason 1: The high through balls (L1+Triangle) are more effective when launched in midfield near halfway line. If they are done near the opposition box, the goalkeeper will get to the ball most of the time. I think the success rate depends largely on the passing ability of the player used and the speed and attack awareness of the striker/player getting on to the through ball. Through balls should be used sparringly and in pes 5, normal passes can also have the same (or better) effect.

Reason 2 and 3: IMO, the ref does penalise both the cpu and human palyer on equal terms in terms of fouls. The only complain for me is that fouls are often called too easily and advantage is not given to the attacking team. On many occasions, I succeeded in playing my striker through on goal only for the ref to stop play and call a foul for a brush on my passer. The advantage system should be tweaked. As for fouls called on cpu, my suggestion is to re-adjust the way you tackle. Dun keep pressing on the cpu player with the ball, only engage in an tackle at the right time and right angle (and never from the back), when cpu player is with the ball in the box, try to limit his passing and shooting options rather than getting too close to him and fouling him.

Reason 4: Use manual switching instead of auto and semi-auto. This way, you can quickly switch to the player you want and avoid the cpu interrupting your switching by sometimes switching to another player automatically.

Reason 5: I do not think or feel that the game is scripted. It's just that moves (through passes and shooting) are harder to pull off. In pes 5, they need more accurate reading of the play and a sharper eye and better judgment to pull them off. In a way, pes 5 is more realistic than pes 4 (though not in the ref's call for fouls).

 

[OniKoroshi]

I started playing at 3 stars are found it incredible difficult but I started learning and I'm playing at 5 stars right now and winning most games.

Yeah, i really hate not being able to use the l1+triangle anymore, it took a lot of highlight out of my lond distance passes like beckham, but he can still get the nice ground through passes.

The thing the helped me the most is use r2 a lot and point on the analog exactly the direction you want the ball to go.

I dont have any problems switching players, maybe its your computer. As for the fouls, you'll get used to it and start playing good d w/o the fouls. I thought it was really bad at first too but r2+x works to poke the ball out nicely or just a nice clean slide tackle.

You sound like you're just a little frustrated making the switch but just keep playing and it'll all come together sooner or later. Good luck.

 

[Stardusted]

Reply to

Reason 1: The high through balls (L1+Triangle) are more effective when launched in midfield near halfway line. If they are done near the opposition box, the goalkeeper will get to the ball most of the time. I think the success rate depends largely on the passing ability of the player used and the speed and attack awareness of the striker/player getting on to the through ball. Through balls should be used sparringly and in pes 5, normal passes can also have the same (or better) effect.

Reason 2 and 3: IMO, the ref does penalise both the cpu and human palyer on equal terms in terms of fouls. The only complain for me is that fouls are often called too easily and advantage is not given to the attacking team. On many occasions, I succeeded in playing my striker through on goal only for the ref to stop play and call a foul for a brush on my passer. The advantage system should be tweaked. As for fouls called on cpu, my suggestion is to re-adjust the way you tackle. Dun keep pressing on the cpu player with the ball, only engage in an tackle at the right time and right angle (and never from the back), when cpu player is with the ball in the box, try to limit his passing and shooting options rather than getting too close to him and fouling him.

Reason 4: Use manual switching instead of auto and semi-auto. This way, you can quickly switch to the player you want and avoid the cpu interrupting your switching by sometimes switching to another player automatically.

Reason 5: I do not think or feel that the game is scripted. It's just that moves (through passes and shooting) are harder to pull off. In pes 5, they need more accurate reading of the play and a sharper eye and better judgment to pull them off. In a way, pes 5 is more realistic than pes 4 (though not in the ref's call for fouls).

As a reply, mainly a reply to the last lines of your post, the ones about the sharper eye harder passes etc etc.

It is NOT a matter of PRACTISE or of skill either of the player's or the user's who controls the players.

The l1+Triangle lobs are gone, out, off, cutted. Instead we get a broken pass when after midfield. Broken, cause even ronaldhinio will send it straight to the keeper, even if his teammate is 1.5 meters near and they are all alone.

I agree through passes in this version of the game should not be used oftenly, i would say almost never. But... WHY are they still there and named as "through passes" then? I really can't see any reason at all, except for making the game worse.

 

[Granulated]

I've been getting the occassional wrong offside call.
Usually when a cross is sent over and it travels back away from the opponents goal. (NOTE: In real footie you CANNOT be offside if the ball is played backwards)

I've decided that Konami have made the linesmen a bunch of c*nts, just like in real life !!

 

[Granulated]

Oh...the absolute WORST thing about the weird random things that happen all the time, including;

Bizarre penalty misses when the ball balloons over the bar even though you tapped the square so briefly you wonder if the microswitch has even noticed;

Goalies leaping like salmon to punch a ball straight to the oppenent (who then taps the rebound into an open goal) even thought the ball was inside the box and he was unchallenged;

Defenders unselectable using [L1] at crucial times when it's really vital that you super cancel some bodies in the box.

Plus many other crappy things.

My problem is that they happen when you're playing ONLINE :realmad:

 

[Granulated]

Regarding the disaster area that is the games advantage code....

It's a nightmare. I hope they sort it out.

Almost 100% of the time, I DONT get the advantage when I've got a great chance to break away with space.

I only seems to give me the advantage when I'm in a cluster of CPU opponents and basically shafted.

 

[Kevthedrummer]

sounds like someone else who hasn't got used to the game yet.... The ref blows less when you get used to the new defending system,

all games are scripted to some degree, its how they work

 

[pes_kim]

As a reply, mainly a reply to the last lines of your post, the ones about the sharper eye harder passes etc etc.

It is NOT a matter of PRACTISE or of skill either of the player's or the user's who controls the players.

The l1+Triangle lobs are gone, out, off, cutted. Instead we get a broken pass when after midfield. Broken, cause even ronaldhinio will send it straight to the keeper, even if his teammate is 1.5 meters near and they are all alone.

I agree through passes in this version of the game should not be used oftenly, i would say almost never. But... WHY are they still there and named as "through passes" then? I really can't see any reason at all, except for making the game worse.

The l1+Triangle lobs can still be used rather effectively when targeted down the wings. I agree that it has lost its effectiveness (as compared to pes 4) when targeted down the middle to send strikers through on goal. I've only managed to pull it off only a few times if I launch the pass near halfway line to target a fast striker (Owen). The low through pass is more effective but the angle of the pass has to be considered since it cannot be lofted over defenders. In a sense, this is more realistic as we dun see many of these l1+triangle passes being made successfully in real life except by very skilful players in some situations. Also, good gks often rush out to collect these passes.

While converting from pes 4 to pes 5 (esp. if you are fond of using through passes), it must be kept in mind that the through passes in pes 5 requires the targeted player to run a longer distance in order to reach the ball. For eg, in pes 4, I often use through pass to just stroke the ball a few steps in front of the targeted player (to lay it off for a shot etc). But in pes 5, I can no longer do that as the through pass would be played too far in front of the player. However, I do find that normal pass can achieve the same effect. As with all computer games, you have to be accustomed to the game mechanics and through experience, figure out what moves can and cannot be pulled off and under what circumstances. In pes 5, there are still many ways to break through the defence to score goals while I admit l1+triangle down the middle is not a good option unless I am leading and have plenty of possession to play ard.

 

[Stardusted]

pes_kim, I agree with you 99%, and that 1% is the part where you say that in real life it takes a very skilled player to pull the l1+triangle pass etc etc.

I will try to make it clear once again. I do NOT say that it is broken because the passes are not done EFFECTIVELY. (I use caps to just underline some words, i hope no one is offended by that).

They are broken because they are NOT there. You can't lob through the ball at all using l1+triangle.

EXAMPLE : Vertical L1+Triangle pass in the box to another teammate, while there is NO defense guarding either of your players. The pass will 70% go OUTSIDE of the field, not vertically at all, or straight to the keeper, still not vertical. Now, in this situation the logical end would be either the pass goes to the teammate (depends on how far from the keeper he is) or the keeper will run and catch/interrupt the pass. But to throw it outside of the field ? To pass it straight to the keeper ?! And never ever ever do it right ? No matter wich player you control...

To sum it up, I dont complain because i cant do the succesfully. I understand that in soccer things dont always work.

What I say is that I can't even try to!

Yes other passes might work, manual pass might work, I dont discuss that in this thread.

L1+Triangle pass is BROKEN. So it is a broken aspect of the game, so why not FIX it ? Patch it, whatever. It aint that they wont allow you to score or they are interapted by defense, or even occasionally miss the target, these would be fine by me and anyone who knows and plays soccer in real life (like i do).

And, now that i recalled, why would they work almost all of the time at the wings and from long distances?

So it takes a very very skilled player to make a simple lob (not accurate, just a lob) through pass (and that player aint in the game, cause no one can using l1+trian.) and anyone can make 60 meters long accurate long distance through passes to the oppositions wings using the same key combination ?

That ain't odd ?

 

[Dragonfly]

Do Konami or anyone who works for them actually look at any of the PES forums?

Anyways, PES5 is great!!!!!!!!

 

[qwerty12]

Playing against the COM on six star is just completely useless. They didnt increase the difficulty they just made it extremely disadvantageous and very predictable i may add. In a few weeks you will have dozens of guys saying how they always beat the COM in six stars and they score five or seven goals everytime...

The one thing that really pisses me off is the through passes. Some say that you should lob it and it works but why the hell should i lob the damn thing when the high through ball option exists...? It doesnt work well and it should be addressed. Maybe it just needs some type of calibration not a lot of programming. In the other hand, how can they allow such a huge error to go unnoticed? We all saw this when the demo came out and most of us assumed they would fix it for the full game but not a thing was done about it.

Whats wrong with 6*, is that not harder than 5*? I thought 6* was supposed to be more like playing a human opponent?

 

[pes_kim]

Hi Stardusted,

What I noticed about through pass in pes 5 is that they are now played further in front of the targeted player (as compared to pes 4). For this reason, I tend not to use it in the opposition box as the ball either goes to the keeper or goes out of play. Ok, I agree with you that the through pass is "broken" in this sense. On the other hand, it is not say impossible to lob a through pass in the opp box in pes 5. Circle button and manual passing are 2 options.

It is good that we point out things abt the game which we feel can be improved, in the hope that smt can be done by konami to fix it. On the other hand, do not let these "imperfections" affect your enjoyment too much. Adjust the way we play and more joy (and less frustration) will follow.