- I wanna apologise to WE7 fans - !!!
- Thread starter Winning 11
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Winning 11
Registered User
You`re asking a wrong person mate. Go and ask Japanese TV makers. All I know is that NTSC is better.
Giggsy11
Registered User
I don't know if this has already been mentioned but i played pes3 last night on our downstairs 28in tele and the game went faster than the tele i usually play it on, prob because its a better televison, i only just noticed this as i have not played on a diffrent tele before.
I just understand why there would be a difference in the gameplay, I mean why would Konami support two different staffs and programmers for the same game. If they are so different then why not release them both? It just seems a little strange and fucked up cause the only game in the US is Winning Eleven and having played PES3 both seem fine..........I dunno Konami has to be one of the oddest companies in the world.
Milosh
Registered User
Ha ha ha, Sorry eksol, but you just made me laugh...
It doesn't mean that because Japan use NTSC that it is better, I won't judge it lake that.
The fact is, there's one thing called GLOBALISATION, and trying to standardise things.
It's really tough to say which one is better, try on both and then judge. To ME, PAL plays better than NTSC. Again, it's matter of perception and probably what you get used to.
This something that maybe you missed before, so if you think I was srong read this:
Originally Posted by Logan09 of evo-web
About the debate between NTSC and PAL:
NTSC
National Television Systems Committee. The colour TV broadcast system used in the US, Canada and Japan. An NTSC picture is made up of 525 horizontal lines and has inferior picture quality in comparison to the PAL system. DVD's and games that are played on a television that is not compatible will appear in black and white.
PAL
Phase Alternating Line. The colour TV broadcast system used in Australia, UK & Europe. A PAL picture delivers a better quality picture than NTSC due to its 625 horizontal lines (sharper picture and better colours).
PAL gives better picture quality than NTSC (higher resolution & better colour definition. The only other point worth arguing about is the difference in refresh rates. NTSC has a faster frame rate (30 frames per second at 60Hz versus PAL's 25 frames per second at 50Hz) which reduces flicker.
The other issue is that games from Japan & USA (i.e. PES3) that are not optimised for PAL 50Hz mode will run slower than in 60Hz mode.
To clarify, a game run in 50Hz mode cannot run faster than the same game in 60Hz mode!
The best option is to have a TV & cables capable of receiving RGB input at both 50Hz and 60HZ, then testing them both and playing with the option you prefer.
50Hz = better graphics (higher resolution & crisper colours)
60Hz = faster gameplay (around 10%)
You're not being a dick eskol, just cool down mate, we are discussing in here, you might learn something new. That's why come here.
Alright Mate???
It doesn't mean that because Japan use NTSC that it is better, I won't judge it lake that.
The fact is, there's one thing called GLOBALISATION, and trying to standardise things.
It's really tough to say which one is better, try on both and then judge. To ME, PAL plays better than NTSC. Again, it's matter of perception and probably what you get used to.
This something that maybe you missed before, so if you think I was srong read this:
Originally Posted by Logan09 of evo-web
About the debate between NTSC and PAL:
NTSC
National Television Systems Committee. The colour TV broadcast system used in the US, Canada and Japan. An NTSC picture is made up of 525 horizontal lines and has inferior picture quality in comparison to the PAL system. DVD's and games that are played on a television that is not compatible will appear in black and white.
PAL
Phase Alternating Line. The colour TV broadcast system used in Australia, UK & Europe. A PAL picture delivers a better quality picture than NTSC due to its 625 horizontal lines (sharper picture and better colours).
PAL gives better picture quality than NTSC (higher resolution & better colour definition. The only other point worth arguing about is the difference in refresh rates. NTSC has a faster frame rate (30 frames per second at 60Hz versus PAL's 25 frames per second at 50Hz) which reduces flicker.
The other issue is that games from Japan & USA (i.e. PES3) that are not optimised for PAL 50Hz mode will run slower than in 60Hz mode.
To clarify, a game run in 50Hz mode cannot run faster than the same game in 60Hz mode!
The best option is to have a TV & cables capable of receiving RGB input at both 50Hz and 60HZ, then testing them both and playing with the option you prefer.
50Hz = better graphics (higher resolution & crisper colours)
60Hz = faster gameplay (around 10%)
You're not being a dick eskol, just cool down mate, we are discussing in here, you might learn something new. That's why come here.
Alright Mate???
Yeah Milosh, but there´s still one thing, the game itself. If the in-game graphics are crap then it doesn´t make a difference whether the game is on NTSC or PAL. The same thing with gameplay, I already knew that NTSC is faster, but the gameplay is slower in WE7 than in PES3, that´s why WE7 plays very smoothly compared to PES although it´s on NTSC. If the gameplay in both games would have technically the same speed, then PES3 would be slower because of its 50 hz mode. But the fact is that WE7 has a much slower gameplay.
Milosh
Registered User
You're completely right larsson on that point.
My point was to distinguish between 50/60Hz modes in PES3 and between systems.
Even though, I think that PES3 looks slightly better than WE7, a bit sharper.
Both games are SMOOOOOOOOOTH as.
Have to go back to work now.
Write something later!
Cheers.
My point was to distinguish between 50/60Hz modes in PES3 and between systems.
Even though, I think that PES3 looks slightly better than WE7, a bit sharper.
Both games are SMOOOOOOOOOTH as.
Have to go back to work now.
Write something later!
Cheers.
Winning 11
Registered User
Milosh - how can you call yourself some sorf of an expert..and talk like that ?? I just don`t get you man...I`ll tell you what..go watch a football match on TV and then start playing PES3. It`s 300 faster than a real life gameplay speed..and then play WE7....what do you get..better, slower realistic gameplay..PES3 is shit compared to WE7, players look like insects, and move like they take speed stack. I`m sure 100% that you didn`t even play WE7 not to mention you owning WE7..sorry
Milosh
Registered User
Whatever mate, don't know what's your problem?!
I'm just trying to be helpful and to be as friendly as a person can be, and I really don't like when somebody insult and gives me crap with no reason. I seriously consider not coming back to these posts just because of people like you. I'm sick and tyred of shit like this.
If you doubt my qualifications, that's fine, not my problem. I didn't make up what I wrote in the previous post, IT IS A FACT.
As a matter a fact, I used to work for a computer gaming magazine, writing reviews of hardware and games as well. I still have huge collection of the best football games ever made (if anyone is interested).
No offence mate but if you don't have anything smart to say except insult then don't talk at all... The easiest is to talk about something you REALLY LIKE and don't want to accept opposite, no matter what. And to correct myself you were one of those who was talking THE BEST about PES3 and now you want to apologise. I bet that next month you'll say that PES3 PC is better than WE7 on PS2 etc... Skrew that.
Sorry if you are dissapointed with your "PERFECT" NTSC system so much, buy PAL then, should show you the qualities! Read my previous post again, and then you should get why is NTSC like it is and PAL like it is. And like I said, TRY IT FIRST BEFORE YOU SAY ANYTHING!!!
I wish that blokes like you stop giving advices about something you don't even understand!
It is very simple eskol,
If you don't like PES3 so much then DON'T PLAY IT, and stop complaining about it because there are people who enjoy this game and you just make it look ugly!!! Makes me sick too! Both ways make me sick, people who talk shit about WE7 and about PES3. Choose one of these since they are THE BEST FOOTBALL SIMULATIONS EVER MADE and enjoy it, don't play and complain about what you don't like.
There are people who think that even PES3 on 60Hz is TOO SLOW. It's PERSONAL preference, you prefer slower gameplay, somebody else prefers faster. Just a simple preference.
Just one thing you should understand, and that is that PES3 (and other PAL games) will ALWAYS BE FASTER ON YOUR NTSC SYSTEM THAN ON PAL... PERIOD...
If you disagree, and know better, prove it, I would really like to see how are you going to get for example sharper picture on your NTSC TV than on PAL.
Now lets cool this topic down and start one REALLY FRIENDLY ATMOSPHERE.
Now,are we going to talk like mates or what?
Somebody asked how to fix slowdowns etc. in PC version:
Konami posted new patch that is supposed to fix it, haven't tried it yet, but here it is:
http://www.konamityo.com/we/en/pes3pc/index.html
NOTE:
- Fixed so that the game speed will not be slowed down on certain graphic cards. Please change the Display option's Quality to "Low" to activate.
- Reduced the stuttering of the game.
- Fixed the problem of the stadiums textures, and names of the players on the back of the uniform, which were displayed incorrectly.
- Fixed the problem of the game crashing by changing certain edit player's hairstyle.
- Reduced the problem of the game crashing after the display of the Konami logo sequence in some cases.
I'm just trying to be helpful and to be as friendly as a person can be, and I really don't like when somebody insult and gives me crap with no reason. I seriously consider not coming back to these posts just because of people like you. I'm sick and tyred of shit like this.
If you doubt my qualifications, that's fine, not my problem. I didn't make up what I wrote in the previous post, IT IS A FACT.
As a matter a fact, I used to work for a computer gaming magazine, writing reviews of hardware and games as well. I still have huge collection of the best football games ever made (if anyone is interested).
No offence mate but if you don't have anything smart to say except insult then don't talk at all... The easiest is to talk about something you REALLY LIKE and don't want to accept opposite, no matter what. And to correct myself you were one of those who was talking THE BEST about PES3 and now you want to apologise. I bet that next month you'll say that PES3 PC is better than WE7 on PS2 etc... Skrew that.
Sorry if you are dissapointed with your "PERFECT" NTSC system so much, buy PAL then, should show you the qualities! Read my previous post again, and then you should get why is NTSC like it is and PAL like it is. And like I said, TRY IT FIRST BEFORE YOU SAY ANYTHING!!!
I wish that blokes like you stop giving advices about something you don't even understand!
It is very simple eskol,
If you don't like PES3 so much then DON'T PLAY IT, and stop complaining about it because there are people who enjoy this game and you just make it look ugly!!! Makes me sick too! Both ways make me sick, people who talk shit about WE7 and about PES3. Choose one of these since they are THE BEST FOOTBALL SIMULATIONS EVER MADE and enjoy it, don't play and complain about what you don't like.
There are people who think that even PES3 on 60Hz is TOO SLOW. It's PERSONAL preference, you prefer slower gameplay, somebody else prefers faster. Just a simple preference.
Just one thing you should understand, and that is that PES3 (and other PAL games) will ALWAYS BE FASTER ON YOUR NTSC SYSTEM THAN ON PAL... PERIOD...
If you disagree, and know better, prove it, I would really like to see how are you going to get for example sharper picture on your NTSC TV than on PAL.
Now lets cool this topic down and start one REALLY FRIENDLY ATMOSPHERE.
Now,are we going to talk like mates or what?
Somebody asked how to fix slowdowns etc. in PC version:
Konami posted new patch that is supposed to fix it, haven't tried it yet, but here it is:
http://www.konamityo.com/we/en/pes3pc/index.html
NOTE:
- Fixed so that the game speed will not be slowed down on certain graphic cards. Please change the Display option's Quality to "Low" to activate.
- Reduced the stuttering of the game.
- Fixed the problem of the stadiums textures, and names of the players on the back of the uniform, which were displayed incorrectly.
- Fixed the problem of the game crashing by changing certain edit player's hairstyle.
- Reduced the problem of the game crashing after the display of the Konami logo sequence in some cases.
Winning 11
Registered User
Milosh - next time when you want to write a reply (in my thread) can you PLEASE make it shorter ?? this is almost long as if I was reading a holly bible. You think my opinions are wrong, and I think yours are too, so we`re drawn. In every reply of yours you tell us what you do for work and what you did for example " I used to work for a computer gaming magazine, writing reviews of hardware and games as well "...well you must be a smart fella.. is there something you didn`t do..are you a surgent..or maybe a personal trainer, or maybe you used to be a pilot or be a ship captain..just quit telling us what you do for work and what you did noone really cares. I have about 100 people from Europe that use PAL telling me the game is faster than WE7 is no matter if its 50Hz or 60Hz or 10.000Hz. You want to be the right one , well you`re not, at least in my point of view. I guess it would make you alot happier if me and larsson and every single WE7 fan told you that WE7 is a complete SHIT and PES3 rules the football gaming today. Yes, when I first got PES3 I thought it was better than WE7 and then I actually listened on what many board members have to say about PES3 vs WE7 , then I realised how foolish I was for saying PES3 is better than WE7. At least I have balls to apologise for something that I did or said in a wrong way. I really want to put this in a nicest possible way: I think you`re a nerd, or a geek who reads magazines 24/7 and plays games 24/7 nonstop. Fuck KONAMI, screw WE7 along with PES3 I ain`t gonna argue over this BS. But the fact of the matter is you`re still a "newbie" here at PESInsight and you have to learn alot.. of things when it comes to KONAMI football games. I would suggest you to go out a little bit more often and hook up with some girls, I can notice that you`re a little virgin who seeks attenton from everyone.. anyways I never called you to reply in my thread..and I would advise you not to write your replies in my threads ..show me how mature and inteligent you are..will ya..and for the record I dont like you, I don`t know you and as far as me and you being mates, pals friends or whatever those chances are slim to none..
Please guys, calm down a little, no need for that, some people like WE, some like PES, and some people like both but think that one game is a little bit better than the other one, I belong to the 3rd group, Milosh also I think. You Eksol belong to the 1st group, that´s ok for me, but please stop arguing and talking "PES is shit" or "WE is shit" etc.
Eksol, this one goes especially to you: Please let this personal things out, ok mate ?
Eksol, this one goes especially to you: Please let this personal things out, ok mate ?
Winning 11
Registered User
Bro, it`s alright with me..but don`t let people make a fool outta of you...I didn`t flame Milosh in any way but I guess he would take an axe and cut my head of just because PES3 is better to him..I`m 24yrs. old and there`s no need for someone to laugh at me like Milosh stated.
First of all I am not on anyone's side, I am a super fan of Winning11 as I enjoy it everytime I play it - since year 1996.
I love it as I love challenging with friends, so far no one can beat me by more than 50% of the matches.
I don't care what PES3 is, don't care what Konami wants to do, I will only stick with Winning11, that's why I bought my 29" TV and PS2, I don't bother trying any other games, no exception for PES3.
Let's just share our pasion here guys, OK?
I love it as I love challenging with friends, so far no one can beat me by more than 50% of the matches.
I don't care what PES3 is, don't care what Konami wants to do, I will only stick with Winning11, that's why I bought my 29" TV and PS2, I don't bother trying any other games, no exception for PES3.
Let's just share our pasion here guys, OK?
sometimes its good to listen to ppl's ideas without being insulted or being angry.
in any case , i have both games.
i use a pal ps2.
i noticed that pes3 was slightly faster but it doesnt feel "fast" , it depends how u play..u can still change the pace of the game in pes3.
seabass (main creator of these games, as most of u know) says pes3 has gameplay "improvements" over we7 plus the extra animations etc. he also said pes3 has improved A.I. for these reasons i migrated to pes3 and have since imported jap. commentry
being able to use the "flick-up" just ADDS to what u can do on the futbol pitch too this move is difficult to successfully implement during a game but when ya do it's satisfying. just noticed u can do zidane spins in we7, previously thought u couldnt.
i do like having a full screen picture with pes3, with we7 my pic is slightly squashed. in pes3 i use the camera b4 "tower view" so player size is fine for me.
eksol's point about how ur team-mates co-operate more is very interesting. with we7 being slightly slower, in theory would allow ur team-mates more time to move into postion..hmm
eksol,
can u elaborate more on ur point about the differences of how ur team-mates move?
cheers!
in any case , i have both games.
i use a pal ps2.
i noticed that pes3 was slightly faster but it doesnt feel "fast" , it depends how u play..u can still change the pace of the game in pes3.
seabass (main creator of these games, as most of u know) says pes3 has gameplay "improvements" over we7 plus the extra animations etc. he also said pes3 has improved A.I. for these reasons i migrated to pes3 and have since imported jap. commentry
being able to use the "flick-up" just ADDS to what u can do on the futbol pitch too
this move is difficult to successfully implement during a game but when ya do it's satisfying. just noticed u can do zidane spins in we7, previously thought u couldnt.i do like having a full screen picture with pes3, with we7 my pic is slightly squashed. in pes3 i use the camera b4 "tower view" so player size is fine for me.
eksol's point about how ur team-mates co-operate more is very interesting. with we7 being slightly slower, in theory would allow ur team-mates more time to move into postion..hmm
eksol,
can u elaborate more on ur point about the differences of how ur team-mates move?
cheers!
Last edited:
Winning 11
Registered User
Edmundo22 said:sometimes its good to listen to ppl's ideas without being insulted or being angry.
in any case , i have both games.
i use a pal ps2.
i noticed that pes3 was slightly faster but it doesnt feel "fast" , it depends how u play..u can still change the pace of the game in pes3.
seabass (main creator of these games, as most of u know) says pes3 has gameplay "improvements" over we7 plus the extra animations etc. he also said pes3 has improved A.I. for these reasons i migrated to pes3 and have since imported jap. commentry
being able to use the "flick-up" just ADDS to what u can do on the futbol pitch too
i do like having a full screen picture with pes3, with we7 my pic is slightly squashed. in pes3 i use the camera b4 "tower view" so player size is fine for me.
eksol's point about how ur team-mates co-operate more is very interesting. with we7 being slightly slower, in theory would allow ur team-mates more time to move into postion..hmm
eksol,
can u elaborate more on ur point about the differences of how ur team-mates move?
cheers!
I don`t really notice any differences between WE7's AI or PES3`s. IMO, they both suck. Every time your oponent gets the ball they run for the corner line trying to score with a header..this happens 95% of time. And I haven`t played WE7 or PES3 in about 3 weeks I don`t know why probably because I`m bored with playing it (shame on me)..now when it comes on how my team-mates move ...I`ll say it again WE7 owns PES3 on this one.. it`s really hard to notice this when you use regular camera..the only way you can notice a major difference is if you use Broadcast 3 camera (IN PES3) and then run towards a corner line or a throw in line. Let the camera zoom in at ya and then try to dribble or move slowly..you`ll see how terribly players move it`s like they levitate in the air.. (this could be because the gameplay is faster or because of the gameplay issues)
Milosh
Registered User
Hey eksol I think this might be the reason why the players seem to "ice skate" in PES3, even though I haven't noticed that in beta or demo version, only in final retail.
f) PlayStation2's CPU could NOT handle double the calculations of 22 player movements.
g) Sliding Occurs when there are not enough Keyframes implemented and the foot's offset XYZ value is not kept constant.
h) Videogames using Motion Capture that is not "cleaned up" by a Traditional Animator has sliding.
Taken from this tread, good stuff if you haven't read it before.
http://forum.pesinsight.com/showthread.php?t=5485
Cheers.
f) PlayStation2's CPU could NOT handle double the calculations of 22 player movements.
g) Sliding Occurs when there are not enough Keyframes implemented and the foot's offset XYZ value is not kept constant.
h) Videogames using Motion Capture that is not "cleaned up" by a Traditional Animator has sliding.
Taken from this tread, good stuff if you haven't read it before.
http://forum.pesinsight.com/showthread.php?t=5485
Cheers.