Does Anybody Else Hate How The Computer Cheats?!

[haz32]

sounds like someone's a sore loser to me but i have noticed a bias ie the losing team is a lot more 'lucky'. really annoying in multiplayer

 

[Baddar]

I'll say it again...

If I've found a way to combat this "computer cheating" so that it rarely happens anymore, then surely others can too?

When I first played 2008, I was like many on here, quick to say "it's not me doing anything wrong, the CPU are fucking cheating!!!".

You come to realise that the better you are at the game, the less you notice about it. As long as you take more care when passing around in your own half, you'll be fine.

The beauty of a football game that you control is that...you're exactly that...in full control, no matter how much you think you're being cheated out of it.

Yes, the CPU does get lucky bounces. So do I.

Yes, the CPU does seem to win the header from a corner often. But since I've got better at defending, they rarely, if ever score from corners any more.

And yes, this is Top Player.

 

[tr1n1ty]

Here Here Baddar!!

Things go for and against and you being in control means you have to deal with them be it a chance or a lucky bounce either way, a better player will always deal with the situation wihtout considering it cheating!!

 

[fick]

My dear Baddar & tr1n1ty, while yes, as you get better at the game you do begin to 'ignore' the CPU's indescretions, they are still non the less there.

Certainly it is more noticable than previous versions...

 

[tr1n1ty]

I dont want to go over old issues but same can be said in real life the better teams should overcome a dodgy ref decision, they are still non the less there!!

 

[mp78]

Well, no.

I see thousands of posts from people moaning and complaining about certain things, but you come to expect that from any game.

I didn't doubt that some stats might be inaccurate, I'm just saying that it's never been a problem for me/I've never really noticed it.

Now if you were complaining about a "bug" within the game, I'd see your point of view. That'd be annoying. But it's about stats, something which each and EVERY person who plays PES will have differing opinions on.

I could spend hours looking through players on PES and be like "ZOMFG WHY IS HE ONLY 60 FOR SPEED!!" The beauty of having your own option file is so you can edit it to how you see fit. So again, this isn't really a problem.

If you listed 10 players on here with stats you disagree with, you'll probably find that others will come on here and have different opinions to you.

It's your option file, so do what you like with it. If you're so worried about the player stats being wrong, then take a few hours out of your time to do some editing.

And if you simply "don't have the time to be editing option files," then you shouldn't worry about the game's "faults" so much.

Yes, I realise I'm beginning to sound like a dick, and I'm probably annoying you by seeming to go against everything you're saying. It's not being done purposely, I'm just stating that the problems on strength/speed etc. can be worked around to a certain extent.

Option Files??!! i am sorry, but when i pay 40 - 50 pounds for a game i dont expect to spend several hours getting "basic" stats correct. That is a fucking joke. Dont get me wrong , you need an edit function, but that should be for cosmetic things e.g types of boots , shirt design etc etc.

Soon konami is going to be selling us a blank DVD with instructions on
"how to design your own football game" !!

 

[mp78]

I'll say it again...

If I've found a way to combat this "computer cheating" so that it rarely happens anymore, then surely others can too?

When I first played 2008, I was like many on here, quick to say "it's not me doing anything wrong, the CPU are fucking cheating!!!".

You come to realise that the better you are at the game, the less you notice about it. As long as you take more care when passing around in your own half, you'll be fine.

The beauty of a football game that you control is that...you're exactly that...in full control, no matter how much you think you're being cheated out of it.

Yes, the CPU does get lucky bounces. So do I.

Yes, the CPU does seem to win the header from a corner often. But since I've got better at defending, they rarely, if ever score from corners any more.

And yes, this is Top Player.

You are obviously fucking brilliant at this game! but if you read the posts, people are not always complaining about things that happen when you are " in control". From what i understand the annoying things are the massive bias towards the computer on the little things. e.g when you clear a ball with a header from a corner the ball goes to a waiting opposition player as if you passed to them. that is totally unrealistic and people are rightly annoyed. Yes these things happen, but the ratio is massively wrong. All i have heard you say is that it is the players fault and we should just learn to live with it/get better at the game, which is fair enough if all the things that piss you off happen when you are "in control" because you can make improvements to your game if that is the case but basic things like a slower player catching a faster player, is shit because it is totally unrealistic .
I would like to think i am good atPES as i have played it since the early days and always got good results either in ML mode against my mates or online , and i still get annoyed when these shitty things happen. You must have loads more patience than the majority of people!

 

[Baddar]

Nope, I wouldn't say I'm brilliant at the game by any means.

I'm good enough to win on Top Player most of the time, but wouldn't say I'm all that brilliant.

I don't know. I haven't personally tried any level apart from Top Player, so I was wondering if this "CPU bias" happens when on lower levels of difficultly too?

I mean I've always just took into account that yes, the CPU does seem to get the run of the ball, but it might have something to do with me being on Top Player/one of the higher difficulty levels.

If I'm wrong, then it's without a doubt a problem, but some are likely to see it less of a problem if they're already beating the game the way it is...the last thing I want them to do is make PES easier ...if you understand what I mean.

 

[mp78]

Nope, I wouldn't say I'm brilliant at the game by any means.

I'm good enough to win on Top Player most of the time, but wouldn't say I'm all that brilliant.

I don't know. I haven't personally tried any level apart from Top Player, so I was wondering if this "CPU bias" happens when on lower levels of difficultly too?

I mean I've always just took into account that yes, the CPU does seem to get the run of the ball, but it might have something to do with me being on Top Player/one of the higher difficulty levels.

If I'm wrong, then it's without a doubt a problem, but some are likely to see it less of a problem if they're already beating the game the way it is...the last thing I want them to do is make PES easier ...if you understand what I mean.

I do see what you mean. The last thing i would want is PES to be easy. I also play on top player, however this is very rare as i mainly play against mates or online. These flaws in the game show up in every mode . To cut a long story short, it is not that when playing PES the computer / human player can beat you by superior skill/ game plan, it always seems like when you lose it is because of some bullshit reason which is completely unrealistic. ( and yes i have been beaten by people who have played better football than me, i am not saying i cant lose unless i am cheated! ) this is the reason why myself and many others feel really let down by this game. Dont get me wrong i will still play this game til the next one comes out , but that doesnt mean the problems are not there. I love PES , so i know something is wrong when i find myself playing COD4 online more now.

 

[PacMan]

A funny thing about this kind of threads is that people defending the game always miss the point. When we complain about AI cheating, at least in my case, it's not that we get beaten every time or that we are sour because we suffered a last minute tie by a crap team. Stop thinking like that, please, because it's the typical case (seen a lot more before PES 2008) that if anyone criticized a gameplay aspect of the game, they were either seen as FIFA players or crap PES players.

The real point is that there are numerous ways to make a football game difficult, and cheating is the cheapest. I understand that real football thinking cannot be incorporated in an AI because of computational limits and, of course, the fact that you're playing a 10 minute game, so the typical development of a football match has to be changed. However, I also feel that as AI progresses, programmers should move out of cheating and into reallistic means to achieve difficulty, an evolution seen in all genres.

Let's extrapolate. If you had a really nice modern shooter like COD4 and found that headshots don't kill instantly or that the enemies never miss their shots -would you complain about lack of realism and how the game is below par in this respect? What if players of the game then assumed that you're just crap and your opinion doesn't count? 'Sounds like someone gets fragged all the time <chuckles>.'

The problem with PES is that it has only one real competitor, so it's difficult to see through it and find the weak spots. The sad fact is that PES is not only below par in graphics! If this is not obvious when compared to other football titles, it does becomes clear when you look at its technological level and compare it to other contemporary games in other genres. Cheating is a blatant way to hide AI shortfalls that really shouldn't be there in a 2008 title. I love the gameplay and the feeling on the ball the game has -leaving aside the running around like you're on steroids, of course)- but cheating is getting SO OLD by now, in all respects. It's gotten to the point when you KNOW when the AI really wants to score, as has been pointed out.

Of course, that doesn't mean that you can't get through it with a clean sheet, and I have a lot of times, but it's very hard when your defenders continually miss the tackles when you know you timed them right, the ref blows for harmless tackles right outside the box when you know you didn't foul, the opposition players become demigods of football when they have crap stats and have already played 85 minutes (apparently fatigue is not an issue, and players can play fast and furious with LETHAL precision -they do not get nervous), etc, etc, etc. And I'm not saying this because I lost a few games. It happens even when I'm winning 7-1 and the AI just wants to end the game 7-2 for some reason. Fucking annoying, go to your own half and defend yourselves like in a real match. Where is the realism in such behaviour?

 

[tr1n1ty]

PACMAN i understand your point but to classs it as cheating i dont think so! THe harder the level the more the ball runs for the comp and the more decisions go for the comp yer AI should be better on ps3, i myself play ps2 and find no aspect of cheating yes on harder levels they have more LUCK without it i may as well still play novice or beginner.

One thing though ive never had a defender constantly miss tackles fairi enough i get given decisions against when maybe i shouldnt but those things happen!!

"go to your own half and defend yourselves like in a real match. Where is the realism in such behaviour?"
The realism is what you make of it, if i dont want to concede ill pass around defence play up and down wings keeping the ball. Depends on how you play, like in world tour mode 70% possesion needed on occassions, Like ITALY if they score and are winning 1-0 they will defend the lead!

I just think people want perfection and it wont happen as one person likes one thing and someone else dislikes it!!!

Just enjoy the game if not dont play!!

 

[choong]

to be honest, its soo easy to score against the computer i dont mind when they cheat to get a goal or two at the end of the match, makes it interesting lol

 

[mp78]

PACMAN i understand your point but to classs it as cheating i dont think so! THe harder the level the more the ball runs for the comp and the more decisions go for the comp yer AI should be better on ps3, i myself play ps2 and find no aspect of cheating yes on harder levels they have more LUCK without it i may as well still play novice or beginner.

One thing though ive never had a defender constantly miss tackles fairi enough i get given decisions against when maybe i shouldnt but those things happen!!

"go to your own half and defend yourselves like in a real match. Where is the realism in such behaviour?"
The realism is what you make of it, if i dont want to concede ill pass around defence play up and down wings keeping the ball. Depends on how you play, like in world tour mode 70% possesion needed on occassions, Like ITALY if they score and are winning 1-0 they will defend the lead!

I just think people want perfection and it wont happen as one person likes one thing and someone else dislikes it!!!

Just enjoy the game if not dont play!!

I think the point pacman is trying to make is: when difficulty level is higher the standard of "football" from the cpu is hardly raised, it seems the only thing that increases is the amount of times you get cheated/bias towards cpu is greatly increased

Afterall the top teams in any league in the world are there because they are good at football, not because everything goes their way.

 

[fick]

when difficulty level is higher the standard of "football" from the cpu is hardly raised, it seems the only thing that increases is the amount of times you get cheated/bias towards cpu is greatly increased

Beg to differ. The 'anomilies' seem consistent regardless of difficulty. The response times and poor passing by the CPU are what seem to change...

 

[mp78]

Beg to differ. The 'anomilies' seem consistent regardless of difficulty. The response times and poor passing by the CPU are what seem to change...

Thats fair enough as everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just feel when you read these posts about the problems with PES, the majority are saying something is bad, but there always seems to be 2 or 3 people that dont have a problem with the game.(Fick, tr1n1ty , baddar) So if 20 people reply saying something is wrong and 2 say it is fine, i would tend to think that as in most cases , the majority is correct.

 

[LEGOFLAMB22]

I disagree with most of what you've said there to be honest.

I'd just like to say thanks for replying!

Also I'd like to add that I am absolutely sick at pro evo after mastering pes4 and every subsequent game.

These cheats that the computer does are prevalent in every installment of this series and I'm genuinely surprised you are unaware of any of these.

 

[LEGOFLAMB22]

The thread starter is spot on, one of the best posts ive ever seen on here, this is what i wrote about the 360 version on another forum, this is for the people that play the game on Very Hard/top player, because thats the only level that counts.

I agree about all the cheats you have talked about but I think this is the best Pro evo yet! All the stuff you mentioned is included in the previous games anyway. This is the only thing we disagree on....

I'll add a cheat - when you do a shot even if it's super powerful the computer's goalie will parry it so it comes to a dead stop in front of him so he can pick it straight up, or the ball will fly vertically in a straight line to make it so no one but the goalie can retrieve it.

 

[LEGOFLAMB22]

Nope, I wouldn't say I'm brilliant at the game by any means.

I'm good enough to win on Top Player most of the time, but wouldn't say I'm all that brilliant.

I don't know. I haven't personally tried any level apart from Top Player, so I was wondering if this "CPU bias" happens when on lower levels of difficultly too?

Yes!!! it happens on lower difficulty which is why it's particularly annoying, because it's so blatant. It's easier to deal with though becasue, as it's on easy settings you can ruin the computer even with it cheating but it'll still score a cheat goal etc etc.

Like you can be brazil vs saudi arabia on novice and it'll still do it but you get less angry because the end result is still representative of how good you are in most cases.

If you're playing it on top player it's annoying because it's already a hard enough game and when it's cheating it means that 1-0 game you may have just had turns into 3-1 in the computer's favour.

 

[LEGOFLAMB22]

A funny thing about this kind of threads is that people defending the game always miss the point. When we complain about AI cheating, at least in my case, it's not that we get beaten every time or that we are sour because we suffered a last minute tie by a crap team. Stop thinking like that, please, because it's the typical case (seen a lot more before PES 2008) that if anyone criticized a gameplay aspect of the game, they were either seen as FIFA players or crap PES players.

The real point is that there are numerous ways to make a football game difficult, and cheating is the cheapest. I understand that real football thinking cannot be incorporated in an AI because of computational limits and, of course, the fact that you're playing a 10 minute game, so the typical development of a football match has to be changed. However, I also feel that as AI progresses, programmers should move out of cheating and into reallistic means to achieve difficulty, an evolution seen in all genres.

Let's extrapolate. If you had a really nice modern shooter like COD4 and found that headshots don't kill instantly or that the enemies never miss their shots -would you complain about lack of realism and how the game is below par in this respect? What if players of the game then assumed that you're just crap and your opinion doesn't count? 'Sounds like someone gets fragged all the time <chuckles>.'

The problem with PES is that it has only one real competitor, so it's difficult to see through it and find the weak spots. The sad fact is that PES is not only below par in graphics! If this is not obvious when compared to other football titles, it does becomes clear when you look at its technological level and compare it to other contemporary games in other genres. Cheating is a blatant way to hide AI shortfalls that really shouldn't be there in a 2008 title. I love the gameplay and the feeling on the ball the game has -leaving aside the running around like you're on steroids, of course)- but cheating is getting SO OLD by now, in all respects. It's gotten to the point when you KNOW when the AI really wants to score, as has been pointed out.

Of course, that doesn't mean that you can't get through it with a clean sheet, and I have a lot of times, but it's very hard when your defenders continually miss the tackles when you know you timed them right, the ref blows for harmless tackles right outside the box when you know you didn't foul, the opposition players become demigods of football when they have crap stats and have already played 85 minutes (apparently fatigue is not an issue, and players can play fast and furious with LETHAL precision -they do not get nervous), etc, etc, etc. And I'm not saying this because I lost a few games. It happens even when I'm winning 7-1 and the AI just wants to end the game 7-2 for some reason. Fucking annoying, go to your own half and defend yourselves like in a real match. Where is the realism in such behaviour?

100% correct!

I don't mind losing if I've been outplayed but it'll do it whenever it is convenient. For example, if it's the cup final you will lose almost always.

And to those who who think the game should be realistic - no it shouldn't!!! I don't want the refs making shit decisions - if it's not a foul it's not a foul. And put some more fucking tricks in the game why don't you. Yeah you don't see flashy dribbling all the time but in a 10 min match, of which I'm in control, I want to do amazing stuff constantly. It's a game and it needs to be entertaining.

I'm not complaining about every game I play on it, even when i win i feel pissed off if it's been cheating and made the game too close.
Sometimes it won't cheat at all hardly and I can have a good game.

 

[Baddar]

Well, I concede few goals due to the fact that when I score, I decide to mess with my tactics a bit, and play a little more conservatively.

The reason lots of people concede so many, is because they score one and think...better get another, because the CPU is bound to score at some point.

They can't score if you have the ball. If your players do retarded things, then so be it. It's not as hard as people are making out I don't think.

The better the player is, the less chance he has of messing up.

Without me going on too much, all I can say is that if you ever have a player "mess up for no reason" again, get the video posted somewhere and link me to it - Then I'll judge for myself whether he legitimately messed up, or you played the wrong ball.