Is it just me? Physical Contact....

[valencia5]

I know there's a physical contact rating...which is a nice thing...

Is it just me, because I'm bothered by the fact that it seems like no matter what...the Defensive Player always gets the better of the Collisions during challenges and tackles...

This should not be how it is...it should be a matter of physics...but during a collision I notice the offensive player gets knocked off balance far more than the defensive player regardless of leverage and momentum.

To test it, I created a Linebacker American Football style with 99 of everything 270 lbs, 6'5" , 99 speed, explosive power, balance, injury resistance, physical contact, body control...

And will still get toppled over going shoulder to shoulder with Neymar or Lio Messi....

Am I seeing things clearly???

 

[springunited]

seems you are right, that's why this year it is easier to defend, but difficult to attack.

and even worse, computer have a much better physical, if the level is higher. that's why with the same action, computer will not get foul, but players will.

sorry that English is not my first language, hope you understand what i mean

 

[valencia5]

seems you are right, that's why this year it is easier to defend, but difficult to attack.

and even worse, computer have a much better physical, if the level is higher. that's why with the same action, computer will not get foul, but players will.

sorry that English is not my first language, hope you understand what i mean

a little too easy to defend...I just hold down teammate pressure and I win the ball every time, even on superstar.

Collisions should be even, though the control of the ball doesn't need to stay with the offensive player, I like that part...but even the weakest 5 foot 1 inch , 125lbs player on defense is stronger than 6'5" 220lbs player with the ball.....

Ruins it....

 

[valencia5]

seems you are right, that's why this year it is easier to defend, but difficult to attack.

and even worse, computer have a much better physical, if the level is higher. that's why with the same action, computer will not get foul, but players will.

sorry that English is not my first language, hope you understand what i mean

Circumference range of defenders leg, for challenge is extreme....seems like over 3 meters distance away from the body can be defended by sticking out the leg

 

[springunited]

a little too easy to defend...I just hold down teammate pressure and I win the ball every time, even on superstar.

Collisions should be even, though the control of the ball doesn't need to stay with the offensive player, I like that part...but even the weakest 5 foot 1 inch , 125lbs player on defense is stronger than 6'5" 220lbs player with the ball.....

Ruins it....

yes, defender is like a wall
would you often see replay? I do, and sometimes I would see that defender is in fact "taller" than appears. They can still the ball or stop the attacker even in screen, you see they are not contact!!

In contrast, computer can touch the ball when defend through the attacker...what i mean is the attacker's leg or some part of body would become invisible, so defender can touch the ball even the attacker should have block the defender. As the defender "touch" the ball, no foul would be given....

 

[valencia5]

yes, defender is like a wall
would you often see replay? I do, and sometimes I would see that defender is in fact "taller" than appears. They can still the ball or stop the attacker even in screen, you see they are not contact!!

In contrast, computer can touch the ball when defend through the attacker...what i mean is the attacker's leg or some part of body would become invisible, so defender can touch the ball even the attacker should have block the defender. As the defender "touch" the ball, no foul would be given....

FIFA has added an option to "protect" ball, is there a way to do this in PES?

 

[maciejb]

FIFA has added an option to "protect" ball, is there a way to do this in PES?

Stand still and hold R1. Only works if you're one-on-one, otherwise a 2nd defender will steal the ball.

You can do some cool 1st touches if you press R3 down and push a direction.

 

[apass93]

I know there's a physical contact rating...which is a nice thing...

Is it just me, because I'm bothered by the fact that it seems like no matter what...the Defensive Player always gets the better of the Collisions during challenges and tackles...

This should not be how it is...it should be a matter of physics...but during a collision I notice the offensive player gets knocked off balance far more than the defensive player regardless of leverage and momentum.

To test it, I created a Linebacker American Football style with 99 of everything 270 lbs, 6'5" , 99 speed, explosive power, balance, injury resistance, physical contact, body control...

And will still get toppled over going shoulder to shoulder with Neymar or Lio Messi....

Am I seeing things clearly???

I actually played 3 games last night with Shanghai SIPG and thought the exact same thing when I had the bell with Hulk, was getting outmuscled and off balance by a single defender and a small full back at that.

Another thing I notice this year is what some people have already mentioned on the forums and that's the pace of players. For example Theo Walcott with the ball at his feet would be matched for pace by a defender with average pace maybe 20 stat points less.

I'm sure both of these things can be fixed in a patch but Konami do need to address these gameplay issues ASAP because it is frustrating when the majority of the game play plays so well.

 

[valencia5]

I actually played 3 games last night with Shanghai SIPG and thought the exact same thing when I had the bell with Hulk, was getting outmuscled and off balance by a single defender and a small full back at that.

Another thing I notice this year is what some people have already mentioned on the forums and that's the pace of players. For example Theo Walcott with the ball at his feet would be matched for pace by a defender with average pace maybe 20 stat points less.

I'm sure both of these things can be fixed in a patch but Konami do need to address these gameplay issues ASAP because it is frustrating when the majority of the game play plays so well.

Man these football games keep going back and forth with this...

in FIFA 15 Pace was overpowered.....

So they tried to fix it in FIFA 16, which actually broke the game for me and made me quit to PES full time...

in FIFA 16 Aubemayang would be 10 yards ahead on a breakaway 1 on 1 with the goalkeeper and someone like Mertesacker or some defender with 40 points less peed, would not only catch him, but beat him to the 18 yard box and take the ball...
But only running towards the defense this would happen...players were still slow in midfield...but they magically turned into Usain Bolt when defending....totally killed the game for me, as it was so unrealistic...

This year I heard in FIFA 17 pace was again overpowered...as they realized how screwed up FIFA 16 was...

Seems PES is trying to FIX the defensive issues from last year by doing the same shit...I can see the pacey players are faster....but on defense, the a player with "40" speed, explosion, balance...will be able to turn into Superman and run down an attacker near the 18 yard box from midfield....and then, smash him with no ill effects while the attacker is either knocked off balance completely and can't recover, or blasted to the ground...

 

[springunited]

Man these football games keep going back and forth with this...

in FIFA 15 Pace was overpowered.....

So they tried to fix it in FIFA 16, which actually broke the game for me and made me quit to PES full time...

in FIFA 16 Aubemayang would be 10 yards ahead on a breakaway 1 on 1 with the goalkeeper and someone like Mertesacker or some defender with 40 points less peed, would not only catch him, but beat him to the 18 yard box and take the ball...
But only running towards the defense this would happen...players were still slow in midfield...but they magically turned into Usain Bolt when defending....totally killed the game for me, as it was so unrealistic...

This year I heard in FIFA 17 pace was again overpowered...as they realized how screwed up FIFA 16 was...

Seems PES is trying to FIX the defensive issues from last year by doing the same shit...I can see the pacey players are faster....but on defense, the a player with "40" speed, explosion, balance...will be able to turn into Superman and run down an attacker near the 18 yard box from midfield....and then, smash him with no ill effects while the attacker is either knocked off balance completely and can't recover, or blasted to the ground...

I never play FIFA, so can only comment on PES
in fact even worse, attacker would even be slow down BEFORE he get the through ball....I tried one time Neymar gave a through ball to Messi, Messi "slow motion" to chase the ball, even I already press R1. Then Kompany steal it easily

 

[valencia5]

I never play FIFA, so can only comment on PES
in fact even worse, attacker would even be slow down BEFORE he get the through ball....I tried one time Neymar gave a through ball to Messi, Messi "slow motion" to chase the ball, even I already press R1. Then Kompany steal it easily

Yes I realized that...when sprinting for the through ball, attacker slows down the moment he makes contact with the ball to control it, instead of running through it and pushing the ball forward with his momentum to synchronize his pace with the ball...

I was going to test to see if speed burst worked to correct it (hitting dash x2)

In fifa you can push the ball out in front of you forward with R stick forward...like players in real life do with dead sprint...this is one function I wish you could do in PES...you can push the ball but only from a stationary position...not while in motion...

I hope they fix some of this stuff...

I haven't even opened my FIFA game yet it's been sitting there...

Though PES has flaws, FIFA has more flaws I'm sure...

 

[valencia5]

The other thing I realized is, although the temp of the overall match is good...the tempo on the pitch sometimes seems forced...it's impossible to play with conservative pace like they do in real life, especially possession teams....

This is because whenever defender is on the attacker with the ball, they are sprinting 100% of the time, so you have to pass immediately, or sprint also, you can't run normal speed, or even move slowly and methodically, to wait for plays to develop and pass the ball around looking for openings to explode into....

Looks way more forced and this type of pace seems not possible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff03MKr1sWU

Maybe it's because I usually play counter attacking, and when I'm in the lead I switch to possession, and the defense is trying to win the ball back...I don't know.

 

[rebelinho]

Looks way more forced and this type of pace seems not possible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff03MKr1sWU

Maybe it's because I usually play counter attacking, and when I'm in the lead I switch to possession, and the defense is trying to win the ball back...I don't know.

Don't know about PES2017, but in PES2016 this is very possible, and I do it quite often. If this isn't possible then playing any game is impossible, you have to rush everything. And stamina will surely be a problem.

 

[DunkLFC]

Yes I realized that...when sprinting for the through ball, attacker slows down the moment he makes contact with the ball to control it, instead of running through it and pushing the ball forward with his momentum to synchronize his pace with the ball...

I was going to test to see if speed burst worked to correct it (hitting dash x2)

In fifa you can push the ball out in front of you forward with R stick forward...like players in real life do with dead sprint...this is one function I wish you could do in PES...you can push the ball but only from a stationary position...not while in motion...

I hope they fix some of this stuff...

I haven't even opened my FIFA game yet it's been sitting there...

Though PES has flaws, FIFA has more flaws I'm sure...

I have some good news for you. There are two things you haven't yet learned that you can do in PES that will help with the first issue and completely solve the second one.

1) Learn the "Super Cancel" (R1+R2) option that can be put to use in many ways. If you are stuck running slowly on rails, perform super cancel and you will break free from the rails and can move freely and at full pace again. This is very useful in defence as well as attack and also to stop your player touching the ball if you actually want to let it run on (eg out of play for a throw-in / corner).

2) To make your player sprint faster with the ball by pushing it further ahead of him, double tap the sprint button (R1) in between each touch of the ball. See PES has it too.

 

[DunkLFC]

The other thing I realized is, although the temp of the overall match is good...the tempo on the pitch sometimes seems forced...it's impossible to play with conservative pace like they do in real life, especially possession teams....

This is because whenever defender is on the attacker with the ball, they are sprinting 100% of the time, so you have to pass immediately, or sprint also, you can't run normal speed, or even move slowly and methodically, to wait for plays to develop and pass the ball around looking for openings to explode into....

I've actually found that this is better now in PES 2017 than in PES 2016. If you sprint at the defence, you cannot cancel out of your movement and the defender times their tackle nicely every time. This has forced me to play more conservatively when not on a full speed break with wingers in support.

So if I'm ever trying to work a passing or dribbling route through the middle, I avoid sprinting unless I want a quick burst to get a half yard advantage.

One tip is to avoid dribbling in a straight line, either fast or slow.

 

[springunited]

I have some good news for you. There are two things you haven't yet learned that you can do in PES that will help with the first issue and completely solve the second one.

1) Learn the "Super Cancel" (R1+R2) option that can be put to use in many ways. If you are stuck running slowly on rails, perform super cancel and you will break free from the rails and can move freely and at full pace again. This is very useful in defence as well as attack and also to stop your player touching the ball if you actually want to let it run on (eg out of play for a throw-in / corner).


2) To make your player sprint faster with the ball by pushing it further ahead of him, double tap the sprint button (R1) in between each touch of the ball. See PES has it too.

First of all, thanks man!!!

for 1, I knew that but not sure if it is work. But no matter it is work, it is just not logical in my mind. I am doing nothing before the passing through ball, so there should be nothing to cancel (for the players who is running) I don't know why konami make this setting

(forgive my bad English, I try to explain what I mean further)
I can understand if i am chasing the ball, and then change my mind to not to chase it, then I use Super Cancel
But I just can't see the point that I am not chasing the ball, but need to "Cancel" and then release him free and then chase again


for 2, again, really thanks!!!

 

[valencia5]

I've actually found that this is better now in PES 2017 than in PES 2016. If you sprint at the defence, you cannot cancel out of your movement and the defender times their tackle nicely every time. This has forced me to play more conservatively when not on a full speed break with wingers in support.

So if I'm ever trying to work a passing or dribbling route through the middle, I avoid sprinting unless I want a quick burst to get a half yard advantage.

One tip is to avoid dribbling in a straight line, either fast or slow.

I definitely know that but, I think we're talking about two different things...

When I play slow, which I would want to try being more conservative...I end up not being able to...because the defender is always sprinting...he will catch me with a nice timed tackle...

Sprinting and going berserk HELPS this for me, because now I can just break free with nice dribbling...and cuts...

 

[valencia5]

So if I'm ever trying to work a passing or dribbling route through the middle, I avoid sprinting unless I want a quick burst to get a half yard advantage.

It's opposite for us...I might do this, but when I get that advantage, if I don't continue sprinting or pass the ball immediately, he will catch up and take the ball since HE is still sprinting.

It's not game breaking, but even with a conservative, all out defense, the defenders are still sprinting all the time.

To illustrate further...play on the hardest mode their is...don't even control your player, but hold down X for teammate pressure everytime...even on superstar you will win the ball 95% of the time..

I had a feeling about the double tap...seems a little redundant you can't to one big one...

Thank you for bringing the cancel out to my attention, that should help on bursting with the through ball and not slowing...

 

[DunkLFC]

It's opposite for us...I might do this, but when I get that advantage, if I don't continue sprinting or pass the ball immediately, he will catch up and take the ball since HE is still sprinting.

It's not game breaking, but even with a conservative, all out defense, the defenders are still sprinting all the time.

The only time I find it unrealistic in PES is when you are clean through with a fast player and Huth or Mertesacker catches you up. :huh:
However, in the dribbling around the edge of the box with a defender covering you, I think it's about right. If the attacker accelerates into a space, the defender will obviously sprint after you. The not getting a clean break away from them is frustrating though and yes, you do usually need to do something with the ball very quickly. A player with high stats in a selection of the following : "Dribbling", "Body Control", "Physical Contact", "Explosive Power" & "Pace" will have greater success than others though and that's a lot of stats. I don't have one of those yet. I'm betting that Maradona would be a good option.

To illustrate further...play on the hardest mode their is...don't even control your player, but hold down X for teammate pressure everytime...even on superstar you will win the ball 95% of the time..

Yes, they've made that a bit easier than last year and a touch too easy over all. The art is definitely about making sure you are covering all the runners now. Though there are a lot more small random fouls now which come from holding X and/or []. And sliding tackles are good. You know when you are using a quality defender and when you are using a dodgy tackler. :laugh:

 

[pEst410]

I also experience the issues described here with physical contact and running for through balls / sprinting with the ball... I'm wondering what difficulty levels you experience these things on? I notice that at least the physical contact issue seems to get pretty well balanced in Professional, but the game gets too easy for me so I play in Top Player... It does seem like they tried to make the game harder by taking these easy ways out. And I wish Top Player was slightly easier than it is, it seems like quite a big jump in difficulty from Professional to it, then not so big a jump to Superstar, maybe it's just my impression...