any still play pes2009?

[Amateur]

what the hell is arcade and simulation? it's all a simulation (a program emulating reality). both do it differently. I think fifa's graphics and 360 motion is giving it that "simulation" feel that you mention and pes 8-directional style the "arcade" type. THAT IS IT. the rest is AI and ball/body physics.

They are both trying to simulate real football but doing it differently and as a result some gamers like it, some don't. Heck I even read somewhere on the forums that some people prefer the D-pad gaming! so it's a choice.

And this whole shit about manual shooting and footballers instinct that requires depth and skill with a fuckin controller is just ridicules. you want depth try kicking a ball on a field. No matter how much fifa or pes improve or try to get to reality, it is still a game and we are still sitting on a coach with our "strikers' instinct".

it's just a game not a mission to explore Mars....arguments are retarded regrading the arcade/simulation crap.

AI, graphics, gameply etc are all valid points for improvement. and whoever is better in your opinion go ahead and buy it. it's always like that and it always will be like that.

If you're so worried about Konami's future in football games: they have acknowledged that they received feedback from this site + their sales figure should do the trick. if they still produce games you don't like. simply don't buy it and move on.

You could be right, but for me PES is an arcade-like simulation.

In reality:

- Players do not move in that robotic-like way.

- Players move in more than just 8-directions.

- Passes go in more than just 8-directions.

- Players do not dribble past everyone by just zig-zigzagging from side to side.

- And off-the-ball runs do not look that "linear" if you know what I mean.


The Dribbling Controls are so limited that it spells "arcade".

- In order to give the ball a little touch forwards I need to use the "Step Overs" first?? WHY?

- I can only do "body feints" in stationary positions?? WHY?

- I cannot "flick the ball up" anymore.. WHY?

- The "drag back" isn't cool anymore.. WHY?

- After so many years, we only have 4 types of dribbling movements.. WHY?


It is arcade-like for the excessive Limitations, it is badly achieved minimalism.

Too plain and elemental, it feels and plays like a game for 10 year olds -- It needs to grow up, it needs to "evolve" as the title so ironically suggests.

 

[S-D-P]

what the hell is arcade and simulation? it's all a simulation (a program emulating reality). both do it differently. I think fifa's graphics and 360 motion is giving it that "simulation" feel that you mention and pes 8-directional style the "arcade" type. THAT IS IT. the rest is AI and ball/body physics.

They are both trying to simulate real football but doing it differently and as a result some gamers like it, some don't. Heck I even read somewhere on the forums that some people prefer the D-pad gaming! so it's a choice.

And this whole shit about manual shooting and footballers instinct that requires depth and skill with a fuckin controller is just ridicules. you want depth try kicking a ball on a field. No matter how much fifa or pes improve or try to get to reality, it is still a game and we are still sitting on a coach with our "strikers' instinct".

it's just a game not a mission to explore Mars....arguments are retarded regrading the arcade/simulation crap.

AI, graphics, gameply etc are all valid points for improvement. and whoever is better in your opinion go ahead and buy it. it's always like that and it always will be like that.

If you're so worried about Konami's future in football games: they have acknowledged that they received feedback from this site + their sales figure should do the trick. if they still produce games you don't like. simply don't buy it and move on.

its a forum things are meant to be discussed, dont use the pathetic go and play real football argument.The more a game can accurately simulate football the better and that's my preference. "move on" fuck off mate. I'll talk about what i want who are you

 

[byondthought]

you get to do both therefore you are controlling the player rather than solely relying on his stats(which isn't always the case in pes to be fair). Scoring is a skill and that should be replicated, this isnt done in pes and is one of the reasons you can crack the game's difficulty after a couple of days. In fifa obviously the stats effect the shooting but i don't understand why you wouldn't want full control over a shot. In my opinion everything you do on the football field should be you're control, it takes more skill and this is what defines a simulation.

its all about an understanding of how the physics of the game should be played. for me fifa works on a whole other level and some poeple dont want that...

the concentration needed to play fifa at its best is far more than pes for sure.. some gamers just arnt looking for that level..!!!

 

[Amateur]

you get to do both therefore you are controlling the player rather than solely relying on his stats(which isn't always the case in pes to be fair). Scoring is a skill and that should be replicated, this isnt done in pes and is one of the reasons you can crack the game's difficulty after a couple of days. In fifa obviously the stats effect the shooting but i don't understand why you wouldn't want full control over a shot. In my opinion everything you do on the football field should be you're control, it takes more skill and this is what defines a simulation.

I disagree, "simulation" is something that will always depend on a COM.

I agree with the guy (MachineHead) who said that they should improve "how you create your goals", that should definitely improve. How we create space for ourselves or for others -- that should improve.

If the goals go in?? It can still improve, but it isn't that bad either, and it is something that should depend on Stats. If it depended on our "skills" as players, what would be the use of Shooting Stats and Finishing Stats??

Football Simulation should always depend on Stats, that's why there are players like Van Nistelrooy and players like Djibril Cissé.

Our skills as players depend on how well we use the Dribbling Controls and Strategies. But we cannot have the same influence on Passes or Shoots because that would render Shooting Stats and Passing Stats as irrelevant.

We can decide How we want to Pass or Shot, we can decide When -but- the COM and the Stats should always have a huge say on a player's actual ability.

It wouldn't be accurate to have Leo Messi giving the kind of passes that Riquelme can. And so on.

PS - I still think the passes do not feel independent enough, the COM haves too much power.

 

[byondthought]

what the hell is arcade and simulation? it's all a simulation (a program emulating reality). both do it differently. I think fifa's graphics and 360 motion is giving it that "simulation" feel that you mention and pes 8-directional style the "arcade" type. THAT IS IT. the rest is AI and ball/body physics.

They are both trying to simulate real football but doing it differently and as a result some gamers like it, some don't. Heck I even read somewhere on the forums that some people prefer the D-pad gaming! so it's a choice.

And this whole shit about manual shooting and footballers instinct that requires depth and skill with a fuckin controller is just ridicules. you want depth try kicking a ball on a field. No matter how much fifa or pes improve or try to get to reality, it is still a game and we are still sitting on a coach with our "strikers' instinct".

it's just a game not a mission to explore Mars....arguments are retarded regrading the arcade/simulation crap.

AI, graphics, gameply etc are all valid points for improvement. and whoever is better in your opinion go ahead and buy it. it's always like that and it always will be like that.

If you're so worried about Konami's future in football games: they have acknowledged that they received feedback from this site + their sales figure should do the trick. if they still produce games you don't like. simply don't buy it and move on.

LOl, it looks like it upsets you to know that pes is regarded more acarde like..!!!

maybe people should say "fantasy style" football and "life imitation style" football...

 

[Dale C.]

Why dont you lot take this to the 'I hate pes' thread?

You've totally ruined this thread man

 

[sandaweches]

I'm also entitled to say that arcade/simulation is a retarded argument. it's flawed because the games differ in the 8-direction and 360 and that's it. but instead we have endless and useless arguments for weeks regarding the bullshit theories behind nonexistent concepts of arcade and simulation!!!

wasting time is something. but getting annoyed by posters' inconsistent "discussion" is just another thing.

that's what makes online discussion on some of these forums ridiculous, because any nutjob can spew his half ass shit for everyone to see. but what's really stunning is that others join in and have a debate about the stench, the shape, or even the rather stand-still behavior of it. I say it's a turd. not I say it's a piece of crap, no I disagree I think it's arcadey-simulation!!!!!!

I'm not restricting you from practicing "mental masturbation". I'm simply stating my "as valuable as yours" opinion.

 

[S-D-P]

Why dont you lot take this to the 'I hate pes' thread?

You've totally ruined this thread man

how has this thread been ruined, should we all give yes or no answers to weather we play pes and that's the end of the discussion.

 

[MachineHead]

Why dont you lot take this to the 'I hate pes' thread?

You've totally ruined this thread man

Why do you say that? I'm discussing why I like how PES was a couple of years ago, and other people are telling why they prefer FIFA. The thread IS about why we don't play PES 09, duh.

that's what makes online discussion on some of these forums ridiculous, because any nutjob can spew his half ass shit for everyone to see. but what's really stunning is that others join in and have a debate about the stench, the shape, or even the rather stand-still behavior of it. I say it's a turd. not I say it's a piece of crap, no I disagree I think it's arcadey-simulation!!!!!!

You're just an ignorant piece of crap yourself. Back up your opinions properly before you cry about us discussing things your brain can't seem to handle.

 

[S-D-P]

Why do you say that? I'm discussing why I like how PES was a couple of years ago, and other people are telling why they prefer FIFA. The thread IS about why we don't play PES 09, duh.

exactly, both games are relevant to each other. Just because i don't play pes 09 anymore doesn't mean i don't care about the series and fifa has big part also regarding weather i play pes so if people want to compare the game they will. Its the same as comparing anything else that are in the same genre.

 

[Amateur]

I'm also entitled to say that arcade/simulation is a retarded argument. it's flawed because the games differ in the 8-direction and 360 and that's it. but instead we have endless and useless arguments for weeks regarding the bullshit theories behind nonexistent concepts of arcade and simulation!!!

wasting time is something. but getting annoyed by posters' inconsistent "discussion" is just another thing.

that's what makes online discussion on some of these forums ridiculous, because any nutjob can spew his half ass shit for everyone to see. but what's really stunning is that others join in and have a debate about the stench, the shape, or even the rather stand-still behavior of it. I say it's a turd. not I say it's a piece of crap, no I disagree I think it's arcadey-simulation!!!!!!

I'm not restricting you from practicing "mental masturbation". I'm simply stating my "as valuable as yours" opinion.

PES6 and PES5 have 8-directional movement -- you tell me if it feels as arcade-like as PES09 or PES08.

PS - Take it easy, no one has really disrespected you in a way that can justify your offensive rants.

 

[sandaweches]

yes it does

 

[byondthought]

I'm also entitled to say that arcade/simulation is a retarded argument. it's flawed because the games differ in the 8-direction and 360 and that's it. but instead we have endless and useless arguments for weeks regarding the bullshit theories behind nonexistent concepts of arcade and simulation!!!

wasting time is something. but getting annoyed by posters' inconsistent "discussion" is just another thing.

that's what makes online discussion on some of these forums ridiculous, because any nutjob can spew his half ass shit for everyone to see. but what's really stunning is that others join in and have a debate about the stench, the shape, or even the rather stand-still behavior of it. I say it's a turd. not I say it's a piece of crap, no I disagree I think it's arcadey-simulation!!!!!!

I'm not restricting you from practicing "mental masturbation". I'm simply stating my "as valuable as yours" opinion.

said the square to the cube...!

 

[S-D-P]

I disagree, "simulation" is something that will always depend on a COM.

I agree with the guy (MachineHead) who said that they should improve "how you create your goals", that should definitely improve. How we create space for ourselves or for others -- that should improve.

If the goals go in?? It can still improve, but it isn't that bad either, and it is something that should depend on Stats. If it depended on our "skills" as players, what would be the use of Shooting Stats and Finishing Stats??

Football Simulation should always depend on Stats, that's why there are players like Van Nistelrooy and players like Djibril Cissé.

Our skills as players depend on how well we use the Dribbling Controls and Strategies. But we cannot have the same influence on Passes or Shoots because that would render Shooting Stats and Passing Stats as irrelevant.

We can decide How we want to Pass or Shot, we can decide When -but- the COM and the Stats should always have a huge say on a player's actual ability.

It wouldn't be accurate to have Leo Messi giving the kind of passes that Riquelme can. And so on.

PS - I still think the passes do not feel independent enough, the COM haves too much power.

you have more control over the stats as it is manual. Just because its manual and harder to pass on fifa doesn't mean players don't pass the ball like there real life counterparts. You're more likely to try a defense cutting manual pass with fabregas or scholes than dean windass, you really do sound like you haven't actually played fifa on manual. Just because you have more control over the passes doesn't mean the stats are canceled out. One of the reasons i dont play pro is because it is far to simplistic to rifle shots into the top corner with star players.

 

[alonCFC]

you have more control over the stats as it is manual. Just because its manual and harder to pass on fifa doesn't mean players don't pass the ball like there real life counterparts. You're more likely to try a defense cutting manual pass with fabregas or scholes than dean windass, you really do sound like you haven't actually played fifa on manual. Just because you have more control over the passes doesn't mean the stats are canceled out. One of the reasons i dont play pro is because it is far to simplistic to rifle shots into the top corner with star players.

you didnt explain how player passing stats effects manual passing.

 

[byondthought]

you didnt explain how player passing stats effects manual passing.

if a player is weak at passing you need to be more accurate with your control..same concept but with MANUAL control..

 

[MachineHead]

One of the reasons i dont play pro is because it is far to simplistic to rifle shots into the top corner with star players.

Star players don't usually need many efforts before they score in real life either, so I don't really see it simplistic as long as you have to struggle to get a scoring opprtunity.

Manual passing sounds really good, though.

 

[S-D-P]

you didnt explain how player passing stats effects manual passing.

its the same premise as pro really, a manual pass is more effective with a better passer of the ball but still takes effort to execute, but it is more instinctive with the better players, this is the same as shooting. Why dont you play the game and find out how it works like i did instead of trying to trip me up with smart arse little questions. I really cant understand why some people cant get there head round this.

 

[Amateur]

you have more control over the stats as it is manual. Just because its manual and harder to pass on fifa doesn't mean players don't pass the ball like there real life counterparts. You're more likely to try a defense cutting manual pass with fabregas or scholes than dean windass, you really do sound like you haven't actually played fifa on manual. Just because you have more control over the passes doesn't mean the stats are canceled out. One of the reasons i dont play pro is because it is far to simplistic to rifle shots into the top corner with star players.

I haven't "played FIFA on Manual".. I don't recall ever saying that I played FIFA on manual.

But regardless, that's the whole point I was trying to make.. I still think the passes do not feel independent enough, I still think the COM haves to much of an influence on the passes, the passes feel too assisted by the COM in PES09.

But I think the whole "Manual Concept" needs some clear boundaries. No matter how good or accurate I can be with my passing -- I do not want to see Shawn Wright Phillips making the kind of passes that are typical of players like Riquelme.

So closer to manual passing -- definitely. But it would be a huge mistake to overlook each Individual's Stats, because that's what makes Football a Collective effort.

This is something that I feel PES still has over FIFA.. although admitedly I've barely played FIFA09.

 

[S-D-P]

I haven't "played FIFA on Manual".. I don't recall ever saying that I played FIFA on manual.

But regardless, that's the whole point I was trying to make.. I still think the passes do not feel independent enough, I still think the COM haves to much of an influence on the passes, the passes feel too assisted by the COM in PES09.

So closer to manual passing -- definitely. But it would be a huge mistake to overlook each Individual's Stats, because that's what makes Football a Collective effort.

i totally agree with you on pes but you cant make big assumptions about a crucial aspect of fifa you have not even played. Play the game if you get chance on manual and you will get what i mean. The stats are more effective when on manual in my opinion.