Constructive Criticism on PES09

[Amateur]

The teamwork stat is the "team chemistry" equivalent from what I can see. The PES Guide says that new players automatically take an invisible team work stat hit for the first 3 or 4 games when joining your club.

I also find that when I buy new talent and infuse them into the lineup that I struggle at first... I always do much better in the 2nd half of a ML season than the 1st half... I just feel like things "click" better the more the team plays with eachother.

IMO team chemistry is pretty visible and works pretty darn well in PES 2009, at least from the impresssions that I've gotten...

No it isn't, it is most definitely not.

Team Chemistry is something much more complicated than that, it cannot be determined by Only One Stat because it depends on a lot of different things and situations.

I respect your opinion, BUT I think that the Team Chemistry Concept is rubbish in PES09.

Instead of dragging the Old Gen System, I think Konami should start developing New Concepts for the Gameplay.

 

[CapnKill]

No it isn't, it is most definitely not.

Team Chemistry is something much more complicated than that, it cannot be determined by Only One Stat because it depends on a lot of different things and situations.

I respect your opinion, BUT I think that the Team Chemistry Concept is rubbish in PES09.

Instead of dragging the Old Gen System, I think Konami should start developing New Concepts for the Gameplay.

I do agree that Konami has run its course with this engine and desperately needs to build a true next gen engine from scratch.

I'm sure with a new engine they can expand the power of the AI and bring teamwork / chemistry to a higher light.

But personally I'm pleased, and I feel like the teamwork stats and how they interact with each player on the field do make an impact... at least its addressed, I haven't seen it used in many other games to much effect. I haven't played FIFA though, how well does it work there?

 

[Luis_Garcia]

Some very good points here about team chemistry and whatnot. I fully agree with introducing more stats. And would like to see a major improvement in the AI. Too many time on top player is it too easy.

Would be nice to be able to set presets on how a team sets out to play. For example: pass&move and using a target man for example. So the patterns of play of say Arsenal and Stoke can be differentiated.

Also something thats always nagged me is how the opponents close you down no-matter where you are on the pitch. For example when a long ball is overshot, and the goal keeper collects, the opponents are always moving towards the ball. Whereas in real life a team will usually stop pressuring as they pass the half way line. This would also mean defensive play such as 'parking the bus' would be more possible. They would all sit back and hoof everything away. Without pressuring the opponent defense.

Just a thought

 

[CapnKill]

Another issue I have with PES is that when you use R2 to kick the ball in front of yourself it will somehow confuse defenders... sometimes I see defenders that are in PERFECT position to intercept it because I kicked it too far, yet they act like the ball is not there, or they back away from it... perhaps the code thinks that the ball is still in my posession so they don't challenege?... not sure, has anyone noticed this as well? This has been in the engine since I can remember...

 

[Amateur]

I do agree that Konami has run its course with this engine and desperately needs to build a true next gen engine from scratch.

I'm sure with a new engine they can expand the power of the AI and bring teamwork / chemistry to a higher light.

But personally I'm pleased, and I feel like the teamwork stats and how they interact with each player on the field do make an impact... at least its addressed, I haven't seen it used in many other games to much effect. I haven't played FIFA though, how well does it work there?

It's not like the "Team Work" Stat works incredibly badly.. I'm just saying that after many years of using that same Stat, it's time to elaborate on that beginning.

The "Mentality" and "Consistency" Stats that I suggested would add a lot of substance in many aspects. For one thing, we would have a better concept for "team chemistry" because the "momentum shifts" in a game would be dictated by many different factors such as:

- Mentality and Consistency Stats.

- Possession, miss-timed passes, missed opportunities, or goals.

Everything from stats to the happenings on the pitch would have a say on the "momentum shifts" in a game.

But also, the Mentality and Consistency Stats would further define some individuals.

As for example:

- The Consistency Stat would determine the form of a player throughout a season. This stat gains more importance in Long Tournaments.

- So that if a player with a good Consistency Stat finishes his last match with a Low Confidence Level, say 40%. Because of his good Consistency, he would start his next match with a decent confidence level, maybe at 75%.

- And by the same logic if a player with Poor Consistency finishes a game with a Confidence Level of 40%, he would start the next match at 40%

It's just adding some needed substance to the "arrows" system that Konami has been using for years.

And:

- The Mentality Stat is to determine a player's mentality throughout One Match. This stat is more important for high-profile games, it is more influential in-game wise.

- A player with average or poor Mentality will tend to "disappear" when things don't go perfectly, when things get tough.

So you can have players that are Consistent, but do not have the best Mentality. Like Cristiano Ronaldo, whom is consistent, but tends to disappear when things get difficult or against world class opposition.

This differences cannot be established by some "Team Work" or "Mentality" Stats alone. I'm just saying that Konami makes good use of their Stats, WHY not develop an even better system for the Stats??

 

[CapnKill]

It's not like the "Team Work" Stat works incredibly badly.. I'm just saying that after many years of using that same Stat, it's time to elaborate on that beginning.

The "Mentality" and "Consistency" Stats that I suggested would add a lot of substance in many aspects. For one thing, we would have a better concept for "team chemistry" because the "momentum shifts" in a game would be dictated by many different factors such as:

- Mentality and Consistency Stats.

- Possession, miss-timed passes, missed opportunities, or goals.

Everything from stats to the happenings on the pitch would have a say on the "momentum shifts" in a game.

But also, the Mentality and Consistency Stats would further define some individuals.

As for example:

- The Consistency Stat would determine the form of a player throughout a season. This stat gains more importance in Long Tournaments.

- So that if a player with a good Consistency Stat finishes his last match with a Low Confidence Level, say 40%. Because of his good Consistency, he would start his next match with a decent confidence level, maybe at 75%.

- And by the same logic if a player with Poor Consistency finishes a game with a Confidence Level of 40%, he would start the next match at 40%

It's just adding some needed substance to the "arrows" system that Konami has been using for years.

And:

- The Mentality Stat is to determine a player's mentality throughout One Match. This stat is more important for high-profile games, it is more influential in-game wise.

- A player with average or poor Mentality will tend to "disappear" when things don't go perfectly, when things get tough.

So you can have players that are Consistent, but do not have the best Mentality. Like Cristiano Ronaldo, whom is consistent, but tends to disappear when things get difficult or against world class opposition.

This differences cannot be established by some "Team Work" or "Mentality" Stats alone. I'm just saying that Konami makes good use of their Stats, WHY not develop an even better system for the Stats??

These are all good points. I would also like to see a difference between a normal league game and a BIG game.. super stars usually step up to the plate in the BIG game while most players do not...

I do agree that momentum is not very apparent in PES and it would be nice if it was. Players should perform better when the stadium is full .. maybe be a bit demoralized if there aren't many fans in the crowd, things like that... There's certainly lots of room for improvement here... but do we even know at this point if PES 10 will be a new engine from scratch? Is Konami even willing to take that risk? I personally think they have to but I'm not sure if their confidence level is high enough to step up to the plate

 

[Amateur]

These are all good points. I would also like to see a difference between a normal league game and a BIG game.. super stars usually step up to the plate in the BIG game while most players do not...

I do agree that momentum is not very apparent in PES and it would be nice if it was. Players should perform better when the stadium is full .. maybe be a bit demoralized if there aren't many fans in the crowd, things like that... There's certainly lots of room for improvement here... but do we even know at this point if PES 10 will be a new engine from scratch? Is Konami even willing to take that risk? I personally think they have to but I'm not sure if their confidence level is high enough to step up to the plate

Agreed.. Hopefully they'll develop a good consistency, eventually.

I think there's always the possibility that Konami has been developing a New Engine for a couple of years now, who knows? Fact remains that sales have taken a significant hit, and Konami knows that PES 2010 cannot continue that decline.

So PES 2010 is interesting for that fact alone, it's the first time that the series takes a serious dip in sales.

As for the "BIG game" thing, this is where the Mentality and Consistency stats could play a big part. Players with good Mentality won't let the pressure get to them, super star or not.

I mean, we do have "super stars" who consistently disappoint in high-profile tournaments or matches. Maybe this is the key difference between "super stars" and "legends".

 

[jenicek68]

It's not like the "Team Work" Stat works incredibly badly.. I'm just saying that after many years of using that same Stat, it's time to elaborate on that beginning.

The "Mentality" and "Consistency" Stats that I suggested would add a lot of substance in many aspects. For one thing, we would have a better concept for "team chemistry" because the "momentum shifts" in a game would be dictated by many different factors such as:

- Mentality and Consistency Stats.

- Possession, miss-timed passes, missed opportunities, or goals.

Everything from stats to the happenings on the pitch would have a say on the "momentum shifts" in a game.

But also, the Mentality and Consistency Stats would further define some individuals.

As for example:

- The Consistency Stat would determine the form of a player throughout a season. This stat gains more importance in Long Tournaments.

- So that if a player with a good Consistency Stat finishes his last match with a Low Confidence Level, say 40%. Because of his good Consistency, he would start his next match with a decent confidence level, maybe at 75%.

- And by the same logic if a player with Poor Consistency finishes a game with a Confidence Level of 40%, he would start the next match at 40%

It's just adding some needed substance to the "arrows" system that Konami has been using for years.

And:

- The Mentality Stat is to determine a player's mentality throughout One Match. This stat is more important for high-profile games, it is more influential in-game wise.

- A player with average or poor Mentality will tend to "disappear" when things don't go perfectly, when things get tough.

So you can have players that are Consistent, but do not have the best Mentality. Like Cristiano Ronaldo, whom is consistent, but tends to disappear when things get difficult or against world class opposition.

This differences cannot be established by some "Team Work" or "Mentality" Stats alone. I'm just saying that Konami makes good use of their Stats, WHY not develop an even better system for the Stats??

I feel that it is in the game, you just call it differently.. We got form which is not coming out just from how many goals you score or so.. And we got team work - I feel that this should be used more, couse I can feel, that higher teamwork stat isn´t making really big different. But momentum in the game works well.. Example: Do you remember EURO 2004? How Czechs been top, and then Greeks, with much worse players won that cup? Point is, that it is random thing, which cannot come from some stats.. It´s depends on how each player slept, his situation home and so.. Of course that if Barcelona plays against Mallorca, then Barca will be still strong no-matter what.. But teams like Atletico Madrid can make some problems, and that is in the game too.. Example was in Champs league, where i was playing for AS Rome.. I get Barca in group and lost two times and it was somehow unlucky, but it´s happening.. When I met them in final i have broke them 3:0 and i was lucky.. Barca won every much till final and than lost with team from group.. It works otherway too.. Without it, based just on stats it will be not realistic, becouse this momentum doesnt affect just stats from match, but from situation arround it (home, in car, after meal, there are few coaches that giving orders to players to not have a sex if you know what i mean )..

Imagine how it works in real... So many footballers want to win EURO, WORLD CUP or CHAMPIONS LEAGUE, and how many of them can achive that. In that moment you have to realize, how many times you have to play euro cup to succseed? four or five of them? I agree with most of your points, but i can´t agree with this one.. This point is one of the formulas, which somehow works and keep PES up... I would like to see improvement in teamplay stat, i would like to feel it more, couse fast passing game works with every team, and teams like Arsenal loosing their advantage..

 

[jenicek68]

This is my list of improvements, which i would like to have in PES 10..

1. Weight and pace stat should be in the game so we can enjoy to play with Drogba, Berbatov, Nistelrooy etc.

2. Teamwork, have to affect more, how players co-operating with each other

3. Animation of run need to improve immidietly

4. Updates in style of Football Manager series which will come every month to improve gameplay.. And than transfers before season and in mid..

5. Bring the heading system from FIFA..

6. Abylity to build new stadiums ( I thing it was in FIFA manager 2000 and i just loved that feature)

 

[dan80]

i think this game does need a new engine because that engine is for last gen and they still use it for next gen and its making the game feel dull i think the crowds in the game should change like if your team isnt playing well and not winning then a quieter atmosphere is in the stadium and not so much fans turn up (bit like middlesbrough) did any one remember on pes 5 for a friendly u could slect how many stars for fans u wanted i went to no stars once and no fans were at the game lol but with the next game there needs to be at least 3D fans they haft to compete with fifa like getting money in for the tickets u sell thats why i think konami need to put proper curreny in i hear the commentator say there are roomers of the manager getting sacked with this team recent form we know thats not true cause there is only 2 ways of getting a game over minus points or less than 15 players or if they wont make a new engine they should say what can we do to ake the game better really work on the game to try and make it look realsitc like pes 5 where when it was cold u could see breath coming from players mouth thats what i would expect form a next gen game and its not even in there bring back the edit mode where u can give the players any hair style form any player and give them and facial hair u want cuase u cant do that now

i could go on but its either seriously put effot in to imporvoing the game or the one iod prefer is a next gen new engine

 

[Amateur]

I feel that it is in the game, you just call it differently.. We got form which is not coming out just from how many goals you score or so.. And we got team work - I feel that this should be used more, couse I can feel, that higher teamwork stat isn´t making really big different. But momentum in the game works well.. Example: Do you remember EURO 2004? How Czechs been top, and then Greeks, with much worse players won that cup? Point is, that it is random thing, which cannot come from some stats.. It´s depends on how each player slept, his situation home and so.. Of course that if Barcelona plays against Mallorca, then Barca will be still strong no-matter what.. But teams like Atletico Madrid can make some problems, and that is in the game too.. Example was in Champs league, where i was playing for AS Rome.. I get Barca in group and lost two times and it was somehow unlucky, but it´s happening.. When I met them in final i have broke them 3:0 and i was lucky.. Barca won every much till final and than lost with team from group.. It works otherway too.. Without it, based just on stats it will be not realistic, becouse this momentum doesnt affect just stats from match, but from situation arround it (home, in car, after meal, there are few coaches that giving orders to players to not have a sex if you know what i mean )..

Imagine how it works in real... So many footballers want to win EURO, WORLD CUP or CHAMPIONS LEAGUE, and how many of them can achive that. In that moment you have to realize, how many times you have to play euro cup to succseed? four or five of them? I agree with most of your points, but i can´t agree with this one.. This point is one of the formulas, which somehow works and keep PES up... I would like to see improvement in teamplay stat, i would like to feel it more, couse fast passing game works with every team, and teams like Arsenal loosing their advantage..

Maybe you are correct about the "form" taking care of consistency. But the "Team Work" Stat simply doesn't works properly, One Stat cannot determine such an important thing.

The "Team Work" Ability of every player depends on a whole lot of factors, it haves a lot to do with "Tactical Ability" and "Passing Ability". Both things, Tactical ability and Passing ability are poorly covered. Konami should start implementing New Stats into the game.

Like for example, there is an "essential" difference between "Short Ground Passes" and "Long Ground Passes". This Difference has not been implemented into any PES. And because of this lack of differences in the Passing ability of each player, most teams can easily manage to play "quick passing football".

Not everyone is Spain, Argentina, or Arsenal.. which is why we need New Stats.

Because the "team work" ability of a player CANNOT be determined by One Stat Alone. Simply because we have many different positions and roles on the pitch -- it requires different/individual attributes.

I think that the "Team Work" Stat should not be in the game anymore, it's old gen, and it's an easy way of getting rid of all the different types of tactical abilities that could and should be implemented.

And as for the "Mentality" Stat.. maybe it could be of better use -if- only we had an in-game Confidence Level gauge.

And dude, NO, the Momentum works really badly in PES09. If you cannot see that, than I'm afraid your one of them fan-boys who cannot see or admit where the game is poor. I feel like I've explained enough about the Random "momentum shifts" in all the PES titles to date.

So I won't keep elaborating just so somebody comes along and says; "the momentum works really well in PES09". It doesn't works well, the only thing that works well is that you can notice a clear difference in the Pace of every match, which is a nice touch.

But WHY the sudden changes in momentum, there never seems to be any particular Reason.. it just happens, which is convenient for Konami.

 

[dan80]

i dont like the passing its poor sometimes they will just pass the ball in to space where there isnt a player in pasing distants

 

[Amateur]

Just another couple of suggestions from my part. Besides the obvious improvements that need to be done in regards with the 8-Directional Movements and the Limited amount of Animations.

Maybe it's time for Konami to elaborate on their Decade-Old "Types of Movements". For as long as I can remember, all the PES games only offer 4 different types of dribbling movements.. Maybe a Next Gen Console should do better??

WHY not simply have "7 Lower Body Movements" and "7 Upper Body Movements" ?? This way we would have 49 variations instead of just 4. Every single player would feel a bit more unique.

How Zinedine Zidane kept his Upper Body composed and relaxed, his back always a bit arched -in- comparison with Ronaldinho, who always shows a lot of movement with his arms and the rest of his upper body, a more flamboyant and less elegant style -- this could be achieved by having different types of upper body movements.

So instead of trying to mimick some particular players, I think it would be better to simply develop 7 different movements for both upper and lower body. This way every player would move slightly differently from the other, not just the world class players.

Also, the Leg Length could have more of an influence on a player's dribbling style.

Just a thought.

 

[trigglebeef]

You touched on some important points there, I have experienced this and I have also experimented with it. Back in PES6 I used to create some teams with all the Players Perfect, and by perfect I mean all the Stats in 99 and all the Special Abilities.

And by playing against those "Perfect Teams" I didn't win most of my first matches, I eventually came up with the right formula -but- the Point is that teams with better players have too much of an advantage. We all know that in reality -- having world class Individuals doesn't translates into a world class Team.

The game lacks "Team Chemistry". I can basically play with whomever in the same team, and still come out winning. I can play Riquelme, Valderrama, and Zidane all in the same team -and- still end up winning with no problem. Which is completely Unrealistic.

Anyways, I completely agree about Categorizing players.. But maybe players should be categorized by Stats. And maybe we can have a good List for Animations and Dribbling Movements, so that each and every player feels unique.

I have a lot of ideas on my mind, but right now I don't have the time. I think you touched on a very important point, something that Konami has never managed to implement into any PES, and something that deserves good Thinking. I hope I can "eventually" come up with something.

And as for the "Team Chemistry" Concept, I have something that I think would take the game from "Old Gen" to "Next Gen". I'll post the whole (long) elaboration below.
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Now to the point I wanted to post this time, it’s about the “momentum shifts” in a Football Sim.

I’ve played PES for years now, and there’s Cheating in all of them. It’s like some games are “Scripted” to a certain extent.

Those “lucky” goals that the COM seems to score countless of times. Goals product of GK spills, free-kicks, corner kicks, and penalties.

And then there’s the Super-Com mode, a Mode in which the COM is always faster and stronger than you regardless of the distance. At times you can even slide with a perfect tackle, and for some reason, the ball takes an unnatural effect and falls right back at the COM’s feet.

This is when I notice a difference in momentum, when the COM suddenly becomes significantly faster and stronger than me, I know the momentum is against me.

I think the “momentum” Concept needs to improve, because it’s Limiting the development of the PES series. It’s one of the key flaws holding PES back.

The momentum changes regardless of Logical things such as possession or player Stats. There doesn’t seems to be any Reason for the sudden changes in momentum.

I think Konami haves to revolutionize their game in this aspect, they need to have an unbiased concept, so that they can have a Reason behind every AI-Controlled shift in momentum.

This will require New Concepts such as an in-game “Confidence Level Gauge”. And also New Stats such as “Mentality” and “Consistency”.

A system consisting of 2 Stats and a “Confidence Level Gauge”. Both Stats Dictating the “momentum shifts” on the pitch -via- the Confidence Level Gauge.

The Confidence Level Gauge, to Represent each player’s Confidence or Form throughout a Match. It could go from 1% to 99%. And it would Vary depending on the Mentality and Consistency stats of each individual.

And how will the "Confidence Level" dictate the "momentum shifts" in a game??

Simple, if a player haves a Low confidence level of 50% -- his Stats will go down significantly, for a given time during the game, or until he can get himself back into the game.

And by the same logic, if a player haves a particularly High confidence level -- his Stats would go Up for a given time.. this is when everything seems to go right for that player.

Everything from Stats to the happenings on the pitch would have an influence on the Confidence Level of each individual and team.

So that the “momentum” can be measured by an unbiased concept. Meaning that if we summed up each Individual’s Confidence Level, that would lead to the Team’s overall Confidence Level.

Meaning that the “shifts in momentum” would be in favor of the Team with the better Confidence Level, and against the team with the lower confidence level.

And considering that Football is a game of stringing a few passes together, building up play, and “eventually” coming up with the End Product.

We need to take into further consideration that variations are endless. Sometimes a Play consists of just 3 Passes, whereas other times a Play consists of 15 Passes.

We should also acknowledge that If a game has an average of 30 Plays per game between Both Teams, a Football Sim should have an average of 30 Shifts in Momentum per Match.

Meaning that each Play had a Distinct momentum. Maybe in one particular play the momentum was 70% against you.

The momentum could keep increasing steadily for one side, or it can twist and turn for the entire 90 minutes. Maybe in one play the momentum is 30% in your favor, and if you keep building up on that for the next 5 or 10 plays, the momentum would be 80% in your favor by the 11th play.

Which would result in your team being faster and more focused than your opponents, you’d have more “luck” than your opponents. The momentum would be on your side.

This would come hand-in-hand with the “Team Chemistry” concept. It would introduce “Team Chemistry” into the game.

Because if your Attacking Midfielder doesn’t gets the ball, his confidence level will go down -and- consequently his Stats will go Down.

A player with a Low Confidence Level will also have Lower quality for some plays, because his Stats will go down momentarily, or until he starts getting himself back into the game.

So if your Defensive Midfielder is having an off-night, his Stats will go down. And probably, if the Defensive Midfielder is having a bad game, your Attacking Midfielder won’t see much of the ball. Meaning that some of your Attacking players will depend on some of your Defensive players — This is “Team Chemistry”.

And Team Chemistry isn’t just about having a star-studded team, it’s about fitting talent appropriately and balanced. In many cases quality isn’t the most important factor, most titles are decided by the Team with the best Chemistry.

Maybe the “team chemistry” concept can have more to it, but this would be a great start in my opinion. As well as it would fix the random “momentum shifts” that have become an annoyance.

That's the biggest load of bollocks waste of time i've ever read. The momentum of a game should be dictated by how you are playing, along with the tactics that are being implemented depending on the score line. If you're playing well you'll have the momentum, if you aren't the computer will have the momentum. It's not rocket science and it's already implemented strongly into Fifa.

 

[byondthought]

That's the biggest load of bollocks waste of time i've ever read. The momentum of a game should be dictated by how you are playing, along with the tactics that are being implemented depending on the score line. If you're playing well you'll have the momentum, if you aren't the computer will have the momentum. It's not rocket science and it's already implemented strongly into Fifa.

yeah, i love that shit, it can get really exciting both attacking and defending..

most of this stuff is in fifa, loads of little details like body weight and water influencing how far you slide in slide tackles and the ball holding up or skidin long in the wet, its great..!!

 

[Amateur]

That's the biggest load of bollocks waste of time i've ever read. The momentum of a game should be dictated by how you are playing, along with the tactics that are being implemented depending on the score line. If you're playing well you'll have the momentum, if you aren't the computer will have the momentum. It's not rocket science and it's already implemented strongly into Fifa.

And this comes from a person who seemingly is mentally retarded. Thanks for nothing. Learn how to read, do not scrap an opinion without actually understanding that opinion.

And yes, there is Mentality and there is Consistency, that's fucking obvious. This is WHY in some games everything can go right for an Individual, but in other games that same Individual disappoints.

In PES we do not get the "Individual Factor". As well as we do Not have any particular Reasons for the sudden "momentum shifts".

If, for some reason you cannot see that PES is poor in this aspect. I honestly don't get it!! How DUMB can you get?

I don't usually go off like this, but you really asked for it.. not that you or I care for that matter.

But we do have enough NEGATIVE and LIMITING opinions around. So please try to contribute something Positive instead of just thrashing somebody elses ideas.

Or if you know nothing about Football -- keep such comments to yourself, there's nothing "constructive" about them.

 

[alonCFC]

Amateur, you provide me lots of fun in your posts. i can spend hours reading through the fun fights and arguments. keep it up! by the way, i find most of your posts true and it does make me angry when i get a goal in the stoppage time which is evidence to its scripting.

 

[byondthought]

And this comes from a person who seemingly is mentally retarded. Thanks for nothing. Learn how to read, do not scrap an opinion without actually understanding that opinion.

And yes, there is Mentality and there is Consistency, that's fucking obvious. This is WHY in some games everything can go right for an Individual, but in other games that same Individual disappoints.

In PES we do not get the "Individual Factor". As well as we do Not have any particular Reasons for the sudden "momentum shifts".

If, for some reason you cannot see that PES is poor in this aspect. I honestly don't get it!! How DUMB can you get?

I don't usually go off like this, but you really asked for it.. not that you or I care for that matter.

But we do have enough NEGATIVE and LIMITING opinions around. So please try to contribute something Positive instead of just thrashing somebody elses ideas.

Or if you know nothing about Football -- keep such comments to yourself, there's nothing "constructive" about them.

mind, you are asking for konami to write computer algorithms to try and predict human mental states..!! not sure they can really get anywhere near somthing like that which wouldnt look completly robotic in 2010...

 

[sandaweches]

but if that happens in real life then do we call that scripted too?

If you play many 10 minute games in the span of a day (which is not reflecting realistic football either) and then receive a corner goal in a couple of them then is this still scripting or is it more random?

I would usually agree, but I have seen many pes games where we were winning 1-0 and the score holds through. I would be worried everytime we concede a corner but then the opponents end up wasting the chance. This is in BAL so I don't even have a control over defenders. Those "annoying" goals do happen, but they don't bother me cause they don't happen everygame and if they do happen, I think it adds some reality that in football sometimes sh*t happens.

how did portsmouth players in the liverpool-portsmouth game felt regarding loosing 3-2?
I've just seen a WC qualifier game where a team won 1-0 and the goal was a freekick in the 94th minute!!! so do we call that scripting?

Since it is a video game (build on software) repetitive scenarios will occur if you play tens of games in a single session.

Don't get me wrong I still think AI needs improvement especially teammates. but the "cheating" factor is not that bad. Compare the repetitvness with earlier PES and you'll see the difference.

Try this: play PES5,6, 08 and in the game fix the controller to one player and try to play like BAL. ( i was able to do that on PS2-pes08). even the R2 request button works, the guy blinks in the map but doesn't raise his hand. I played that alot before pes09 was released and the AI was horrible in terms of connecting with me or even making runs.

 

[Amateur]

mind, you are asking for konami to write computer algorithms to try and predict human mental states..!! not sure they can really get anywhere near somthing like that which wouldnt look completly robotic in 2010...

That's exactly what I do not want -- "predicting" human mental states.

Wouldn't it be better if they just "dictated" human mental states ?? By the use of 2 Stats and an in-game Confidence Level gauge? It would be a truly Unbiased Concept.

And it would cover both Individual and Collective aspects.

Meaning that if you have the momentum against you, there is the possibility that one of your Individuals is on fire with a Confidence Level of 90%. So even if your being played by your opponent, you could still decide a match with an Individual touch of brilliance.

It is very different to the "arrows/form" system that Konami has been using for years. Because it would Continually change during the game, and you would get to see just how much it changes during gameplay.

Which is something that simply cannot be done with the "arrows".

And it would be a truly Unbiased Concept, as the sum of each player's confidence level will equal the Team's Overall confidence level. The team with the best CL will have the momentum on their side, meaning that the momentum would feel different in every Play.

The "momentum shifts" would be dictated by many different factors, from Stats to everything that goes on in the pitch. Everything that happens on the pitch will reflect on each player's "Mentality" and consequently on the in-game confidence level gauge.

The Confidence Level gauge would then have a direct influence on the match, because if a player haves a Low CL, consequently his Stats will do Down. Meaning that Individuals will in fact be players of lesser quality for a given time.

And by the same logic, if the player haves a particularly High CL -- his Stats would Increase positively.

Therefore, if the momentum is on your side, you would get to feel a significant difference in "off-the-ball work rate". Whereas your opponent will get to see how his team suddenly looses motivation.

If a good Passer haves an exceptionally Low Confidence Level, his "Passing Stats" would go significantly down, maybe he'll miss-time his passes for a couple plays. Mind you that there are plenty of "Plays" per match, so a player could easily get himself back into the game.

And considering that Football pretty much is a continual succession of plays -- You could keep building up on your momentum play after play. Or maybe if it's a very contested match it'll go from side to side.

Point in case is that the "momentum shifts" would have solid Reasons behind them. There would be more solid reasons for inexplicable bad-passes. Instead of the Random bad-passes that usually occur in PES09.

My apologies if this came up as a "rant".. just trying to elaborate on a point -- Would it be that complicated to implement??