Pro Evo 5: What do you want in the next game?

[ScousEvolution]

Madrileno,

Cheers mate. I understand exactly what you're saying, I think you are the same as me in that you couldn't really care less about whether we have fancy kits with the right sponsors and new hairstyles to choose from. Or what colour boots your players can wear. I don't think that's what pro evo is about.

What we seem to be forgetting here, is that if the developers at Konami had been on the path of many of the people on these boards, then we'd have had a game just like fifa. All the boots in the game, fancy haircuts, real player names, but completely shit gameplay.

the reason pro evo is pro evo is that it is such an incredible game. Not that every player has an incredible likeness to their real life counterpart. But that the game itself does. That's all that matters.

That's not to say that I wouldn't like to see the option to change the team commentary names like you could in pro evo 3 (why the hell did they stop that in pro evo 4???) because obviously that adds to the realism. But I think there are still many gameplay issues which would improve the series greatly. Some of which I've already covered.

I don't think konami, or any of the pro evo fans, can sit back and think "oh well, we've created the perfect footy game, now we can just concentrate on player names, licenses and sponsorships".

Because if they do, they will have given FIFA and co a chance to catch up, and stop pro evo from progressing.

 

[Madrileno]

GAMEPLAY GAMEPLAY GAMEPLAY

Im sure that we all agree about that , altough we all wish to see real kits and sponsors and etc ..... the REAL MOST IMPORTANT THING we want to see improved all the time is G A M E P L AY and nothing will be more important more than that .

Konami should continur using all its resources on improving the already fantastic gameplay till the day that we would come here on these forums and say ohhh what could be improved more now ? and we would be short of answers.

I want my father to go in my room and say OHH real madrid are playing today ? and i would say No dad thats a videogame.

 

[Slash]

My father does that already.. but then sharply realises his mistake

 

[Madrileno]

Ohhh man such a great game, I can see only see a good future for it.

 

[tommyc1]

SEvolution you obviously know what you want and i also agree with most of the things you say, game play, tackling, etc. but what i don't agree on is the kits and so forth.

This does not mean i am a pure freak about perfection down to the pattern a kit has which you can only tell about 10x magnifyed, no, but with a few more graphics that would make the game even better, not the fact that man u have vodafone or blah blah blah. But when you make a team in ML, how good would it be when if you could put logos on Nike Reebok etc. etc....

It wouldn't be the greatest thing ever, but it is only a small thing that could, i suspect, be easily done without a great deal of time spent on it, but what a difference that would make. Not the precise realism like fifa, but maybe just the right badges? logos? I was playing fifa the other day, taking a throw in when all of a sudden my player is see through? i mean wtf!??! if that ever happened to PES that's when you would know its gone to far

 

[ScousEvolution]

I'm not saying I wouldn't want to see these things in pro evo 5. All I'm trying to say is that there are other things which need to be sorted out before the programmers start looking into franchises and liscenes etc.

You say it would be an easy thing to put the official logo and sponsors on the kits, but it isn't that simple. Konami would have to spend a great deal of time chasing up the various players like carsberg, vodafone, sony, etc. The time could be better spent improving the gameplay.

 

[manjackal]

What the new game needs is a harder diificulty setting...i can only take so many unbeatable seasons......i mean on 6 star its possible to beat ac milan 5-0 in a 5 minute match. What happened to the hard defences that were present in pro evo 1!!

 

[Saan]

Hear, hear, manjackal! Those defences in Pro Evo 1 were top draw! I agree with the new difficulty setting though as I beat Liverpool 10-0 in a 10 minute match on 6 star! Beating, turning and running past defenders is just too easy! Come on, Konami! The artificial intelligence just needs to be increased for more of a challenge. Please?

 

[Madrileno]

I agree altough I love playing the game against my friends and even if in the future i will be playing it only online I agree thet the A.I must be improved yes.

 

[kingt]

The restriction to just 6 on the subs bench per game. Selectable before the game of course.

 

[discoalla]

Fairer fouls!!!!

 

[Madrileno]

The reserves on the bench must be 6 as someone sad I agree too. That would make you think twice on who to take on the bench depending on the tactics and the next opponent, it would give more depth.

 

[girish]

here we go then...

well i may as well post in this forum as suggested in the thread i made on the same topicso here goes. some points may have been made before.

most importantly why is it that when you are playing home you ALWAYS kick off 1st and you ALWAYS shoot to right everytime. AND all of your home fans are at right side of stadium ie. add a coin toss b4 match and penalties (liverpool don't shoot to kop in 1st half normally)

added stat for coolness under pressure ie. affects you when taking penalties or match situation to be more erratic etc. and let the crowd increase your adrenaline and react to real life how they give you a life and intimidate opponants.

conditions: have to have snow, ice and WINDY!

ball: add a yellow ball which they play at night in difficult conditions in real life

if i update players stats, i can play with updates in exhibition or cup etc but in season mode they just default back. what's more annoying is you can change appearance and that doesn't default back in season mode. it's so frustrating. you should have an option to play with default stats etc or amended ones.

one of the things they changed in recent wrestling games is an injury meter so you could inflict injury on a specific part of the body, chest, head, arms or legs etc. i think this could be implimented. at least that way you can have it more realistic. or if not then maybe if you are injured at least let a box tell you where the injury is so your stats will automatically be lowered for e.g. heading if it's the head etc.

add in scenario mode so e.g. from 3-1 down defeat ac milan and win the c leage for liverpool etc

replay: a cut scene to manager dug out to get immediate reaction to a goal or save etc. also have a more detailed player cam so the camera is placed in the active players eyes so you can see the goal from their perspective (ie. not having to pan around them to get a good angle)

licensing: ok if you can't get all teams then fine- but it would be good. but on another point why was collina on the box but not a ref in the game? surely you can have licensed refs! maybe a post-match analysis very quick section where alan hansen or someone quickly looks at tactics used in game etc this can literally be a quick summary of key points

maybe after match you get asked question by press and can choose from 5 answers like champ man and that affects how you are perceived and your reputation etc?

players: i won't be able to buy phillips from southampton so is there a way to put in key players and assign them to a fictorial team that you can't play as or play against or have them on a free or as unlockable players?

chants: like you'll never walk alone etc and make them at realistic times of a match

have mascots accompany the players out for the kick-off

make contracts detailed- add in player bonus etc

fan commentary? crazy option like sky have

camera angle:really hard to do but like how highbury has a tilted/angled camera whereas barca's is high and straight

player faces: they got solskjaer pretty accurate but why is joe coles face squashed up! try and get more known players better modelled

season- ability to extend stadium/build new one (option could be an unlockable) and possibly get money from fictorial sponsors?

Y was Collina on the box but not a ref in the game? if you can't get official club sponsors surely you could snipe fifa 2006 by getting official referees?

i don't think it's against sponsor legal etc. to have sort of official crowd chants or at least make it sound like e.g. liverpool fans sing you'll never walk alone- and if it is possible, time it right so like in fifa e.g. when i played it (i have since been converted for life 2 pro,) they only sang it timed perfectly around 85th minute and at no other part. let the crowd do a 'ruud' when he scores etc.

I HATE THE FACT YOU HAVE TO DO THE TRAINING THING FOR 30 SECONDS EVERY WEEK TO GET PLAYER CONDITION BACK TO A NORMAL LEVEL!!!
let it be done automatically because it's just annoying for such a little time you have to every time.

what's going to be annoying is say teams stay as current, i won't ba able to sign e.g. kevin phillips from southampton etc. is there a way to puy key players whose teams aren't in the game, in the game anyway?

i like the scenario thing so you can unlock more stuff by e.g. 'do a liverpool and beat milan in the cl final from 3-1 down...' etc

real life footy footage should be some unlockables

perhaps make it slightly more tactical by having a sort of championship manager thing so the 'press' can ask you feedback on a bad result etc and that way talk to players etc

I CANNOT BELIEVE REAL MADRID'S HOME ATADIUM WASN'T IN THE GAME! BARCA'S WAS!!

clear up SERIOUS glitches like i find if a bobble shot happens or you mistime a shot and tap it the keeper stands still and watched the ball travel past him at like 3mph! also how players just stand still sometimes when the ball passes them.

customize pitch turf and hey what about the best unlockable being create a stadium?

use money and not points and make the figures realistic!

it would be great to see the players breathing in conditions ie. cold in winter etc. i notice fifa 2006 have improved their grass so it sticks out etc.- mind you judging by some of their player models they haven't improved much there.should be interesting to see what PES5 delivers. one thing is for sure, it has to maintain it's realism when playing.

 

[ScousEvolution]

Girish,

To be honest mate, I wouldn't want konami to go down the route of having post match comments to choose from, and mascots escorting the players out. That's all superficial novelty stuff which would be fine if the game had got as good as it could do. But there are some real improvements that can still be made to the game itself. Once they've sorted that out, then they can add all the fancy little extras they want.

There are a few good things that you mention though, like the ability to buy a bigger stadium. But if konami were to introduce such a system, they'd have to implement it well.

The reason I say this is because it would be pointless having the option of buying yourself a 60'000 seater stadium, if it made absolutely no difference to the game being played in it. That's why, when you come up with ideas like that, you have to really find workable ways to put them into a game without them being pointless additions.

 

[Saan]

Good points, Girish but you've gotta admit that the most annoying points in PES4 are the glitches in gameplay such as the keepers being generally shite and your centre backs helping your full backs close someone down on the wing.

Konami should take note of where these glitches are and concentrate them before moving on to other aspects of the game such as licensing etc. I feel that the overall gameplay is absolutely stunning but with more work it's gonna push the game into a whole new level. Obviously i agree with you and would want most of what you said but it would only be capable on next generation consoles too so there's a while to go before we can all be completely satisfied.

 

[ScousEvolution]

On the subject of stadiums, that was part of the next list of things I was going to talk about improving. So I'll start there. Or, more relevantly - atmosphere.

In a nutshell, there is little difference between playing in a packed anfield for a major European game, or at villa park for a meaningless mid table match. Also, there is little or no difference whatsoever between being 3-0 up at home, or 3-0 down away. Either way the crowd still rect the same to everything that happens. For example, you could be 5-0 down, and your fans would greet a consolation goal as if you'd just scored the winner.

It is all very unrealistic, and takes away from the overall polish of the series.

Another rather tinny and very unrealistic aspect of the game's atmopsphere, is the way the crowd automatically respond in a certain way to which part of the pitch you are in. When you are at home, and you are on the defensive, the crowd automatically go quiet or boo. When you enter the attacking third of the pitch they scream and shout. And, once again, it matters not whether you are being smashed 25-0 or winning 30-0, you will still hear the same rection. Stupid.

Konami have a great opportunity, and have had for ages now, to spice things up a lot by devoting a bit of time to thinking about real life situations and how they affect the game. To be brutally honest, I think they got very lazy with pro evo 4, because in comparison to the rest of the series, it was not much of a step forward at all, and allowed the likes of fifa to gain ground.

Games between Man utd and Liverpool should be a cauldron of noise in comparison to a match with bolton and blackburn. The sense of occasion should be heightened by flags, flares, and chants. A European cup final should start to a crescendo of noise, whereas a meaningless friendly should not.

When you are enjoying a good spell in the match, your crowd should rally round you and roar you on more.

For example, when you watch a game between the likes of Liverpool and Man utd, or any other fierce rivals, every tackle is greeted by a roar. Take this example: man utd are 1-0 up, but Liverpool are starting to really put some pressure on. they have a great shot which is well saved, and immedeately after have another chance parried away. the team get their tails lifted, and so do the crowd. Man utd try to break away, but liverpool win the ball back again. Man utd would be on the ropes, and the liverpool fans would be baying for blood. Now we all know that under such circumstances, a ball-winning tackle from Liverpool to start yet another attack would be greeted by an absolutely massive roar, and the man utd fans would start screaming and shouting (not booing) at their team to get their shit together.

But what definately wouldn't happen, is that Liverpool would have a shot cleared down field, and just because the ball was not in the man utd box anymore, the whole place would go quiet. And someone needs to tell those people at Konami that a great tackle is sometimes greeted with as much noise as a great goal.

I was watching the European cup final between us and Milan, and when Jerzy Dudek pulled off that remarkable save from shevchenko right at the end, the whole place erupted as if we had just scored the winner.

This is what makes football so special, atmosphere is a huge part of it. For konami not to take advantage of the chance to realy improve this angle of their game would be a crying shame. No doubt about it.

It wouldn't be that difficult to implement either.

When there have been consecutive shots on one goal, and the ball is won back to start anbother attack, the atmosphere should be electric. Also, when there is a clean tackle which breaks down an attack in a fiercely heated match between two big rivals, there should be a huge cheer, with a big load of shouting and screaming mixed in.

Also, you should never see a player celebrating, or a crowd cheering a goal which has come when the team has already let in 6 without reply. Especially in games where there is a lot at stake. It is stupid and unrealistic.

There is so much more to add, but it's late again, so I'll be back tomorrow.

 

[MatTheCat]

 

[Madrileno]

ScousEvolution once again I have to congratulate for what you posted on the match atmosphere.

I agree 100 % % % % with you.

I couldnt add anything you were perfect.

Adding these things to the match engine would make the game even more addictive!

 

[Madrileno]

Individual chants and anthmes for every club and nation and being able to
regognize a spanish crowd from an english crowd or a german
from a russian crowd sound and cheers cause in real life they
do sound different.

 

[Saan]

Pro Evolution 4 - Gameplay improvements

· Poor first touch – I find that when players receive the ball, it sometimes takes a bounce off their shin or they try to run with it and leave it behind. I found that it happened to even the best players in the game and its very frustrating. Whats even more frustrating is when you play a perfect through pass and your attacker SLOWS DOWN to match the speed of the ball. You just wish he could drop back a yard or two and hook his foot around it to bring it up to speed.

· Goalkeepers - Just need to be about 10 times better than what they are… in every respect. I’m sure everyone’s noticed the bug in the game where the keepers watch shots rocket past them or annoyingly trickle past them. Konami need not only to work on that but also their catching, claiming and kicking. All three require work with the best in the game such as Buffon coming out to claim a cross only to punch it straight up in the air. If he does punch it, it doesn’t go very far out at all. Kicking is also weak with not many keepers kicking the ball a few yards beyond the half way line. Their saving needs to be improved too. Saving consists of a half-hearted attempt at sticking a hand out and a lot of the time they appear to be pulling their arm/hand away at the last moment. When claiming a ball, they don’t need to go to ground half the time either which wastes time if you want to launch a quick counter.

· Improved tactics - Choosing 16 players with 11 in the starting line up and 5 substitutes. This would improve the tactical side of the game ten fold.

· Long balls – Referring as I usually do to ISS on the N64, when playing the long ball (C left if I remember correctly) you had the option of putting spin on the ball with L or Z. Crosses were then able to be whipped in so much more realistically and if someone got a head on it then the pace of the ball was converted into the header. The more spin you tried to give the ball, the faster and lower the cross was. In PES, at the moment, the pace of the header can be bullet speed from the loopiest of balls! And to take the p*ss even more, the computer players can stoop to head the ball at bullet speed when it is physically impossible to achieve!

· Player recovery from tackles – In real life, a tackle is 50/50. In a match when players get tackled, assuming they stay on their feet, they will make an attempt to get the ball back. PES4 usually favours the tackling player by having the tackled player stumble a good few yards and have the ball fall kindly to the tackler. Most occasions it stays within the pitch lines thus granting the other team possession.

· Ball physics – I’ve seen players taking shots aiming for the left side of goal have the ball bend left and stay in pitch. The pitch speed seems so slow and the ball doesn’t seem to travel fast enough. Passes are slow because of it; it’s as if they’re playing on mud.

· Fouls for no reason – Sometimes play is stopped because of the most invisible of fouls. For example, you win the ball fairly and then the whistle is blown for a foul when you cannot see what the hell was wrong!

· Play on and advantage – The play on rule from PES3 has improved but it still obviously needs working on. For example, you’ve got a two on one situation and you play a one-two with your striker, the return pass played is a perfectly weighted ball leaving your striker one on one with the keeper but the passer is fouled. Play is brought back for the foul when your striker would be clear favourite to score. I wish there was a quick free kick option too.

· When a goal was scored in cup games on PES3, the commentary took into account the overall score of the game from both legs, away goals etc. PES4 treats each leg as if it is a one-off encounter… Why?!

· Computer intelligence/player movement – When you have possession of the ball, players need to make better runs and make more space. I find that when you have the ball in your own half, no player comes square to make life easy for you and retain the ball. They’re all running up the other end of the pitch! When you’re on the defence, your centre backs back off from the attacker or they run in the opposite direction leaving him with a clear scoring opportunity one on one with your keeper.

· Shooting accuracy is appalling sometimes, you can run it around a keeper and the player will hit the post! Open goal tap-ins are sometimes hit right into the corner of the goal increasing the chances of not hitting the target at all

· The fastest players in the game such as Henry, Ronaldinho, Cisse and Owen should be quick and by saying that I mean over a stretch of the pitch they cannot be caught with the ball. I’ve been caught with Henry by the slowest of defenders and it just makes you wonder if every player seem to have the same speed parameters?

OTHER THINGS

· In-game menus could show the aggregate score of a cup game so you don’t have to cycle through the calendar remembering which week the game was played to find out what the score was! On-screen the aggregate score could be below the current score.

· In-game music – Bring back Queen’s ‘We Will Rock You’ for the title scene, that was one of the best intro cut scenes I’ve ever seen. Failing that, have U2’s ‘Beautiful Day’ as used for The Premiership.

· Players pointing where they want the ball played.

There’s more things to say but I’ll add them later…