Screenshots, Videos, & Much More!!! - Part 1

[Ultimate777]

There you go, pick and choose what points you feel comfortable with and then ramble away regurgitating the same redundant opinions that you already said and changing things around as you go along. You very good at side stepping certain issues and responses instead of answering the questions that are at hand I put forward in a directly manner. Then give some lame excuse that you cant be bothered to read it all and because its got insults in. Boo hoo, you've called me far worse. In the whole of my last post I only called you a hypocrite and mainly insulted your ideas rather than directly attacked you as I do not know you except now I managed come to the conclusion that you are a simpleton. Because you wanna behave as if your above insults when you have already directly called me a c**t because you didnt like me challenging your straw man arguments that were littered with contradictions.

Your a waste of time, as you demonstrate that your clearly unable to answer any of my questions that are too challenging for your straw man concept. Until you grow some balls and actually learn to read and comphrend others opinions and respond in a likely manner, I suggest you stfu and refrain from discussion instead of embarressing yourself further in future.

 

[Amateur]

There you go, pick and choose what points you feel comfortbale with and then ramble away regurgitating the same redundant opinions that you already said and changing things around as you go along. You very good at side stepping certain issues and responses instead of answering the questions that are at hand I put forward in a directly manner. Then give some lame excuse that you cant read it because its got insults in. Boo hoo, you've called me far worse. In the whole of my last post I only called you a hypocrite and mainly insulted your ideas rather than directly attacked you as I do not know you except now I managed come to the conclusion that you are a simpleton. Because you wanna behave as if your above insults when you have already directly called me a c**t because you didnt like me challenging your straw man arguments that were littered with contradictions.

Your a waste of time, as you demonstrate that your clearly unable to answer any of my questions that are too challenging for your straw man concept. Until you grow some balls and actually learn to read and comphrend others opinions and respond in a likely manner, I suggest you stfu and refrain from discussion instead of embarressing yourself further in future.

I will be honest when I say that I did not read everything you said in your last post; I simply cannot bother reading through it. You do make some obvious points about obvious things, telling people what they already now, and then you go on and make it even more boring with your pointless narrow-minded insults.

Yes, there are a lot of things wrong with PES 2010 -- everyone can see what the flaws are because the flaws are very obvious, and no, I do not think PES 2010 is in FACT the best version to date; like you said, it is my opinion.

I do think PES 2010 has a lot to learn from PES5 and PES6, they need to inject some life and soul into the game; at the same time, I can do things with PES 2010 that would be impossible with any PS2 version.

It may be hard for you to believe, but I have a very good idea of how good a 10 Minute Sim can be; I did played both PES5 and PES6 for about three years straight, and eventually, I became bored of the "pin-ball" formula and basically my expectations and ideals of how a Football Simulation can and should play -- evolved -- as a result.

I can enjoy playing PES5 and PES6 from time to time, I still have both games and can choose to play them whenever I want; that said, I do not want to be playing PES5 with High Def Graphics in year 2012,

One thing about the 10 minute time-frame is, how can I make this perfectly clear to you; the lack of TIME... 10 minutes are not enough, 10 minutes does not allows the user to THINK,

If THINKING became a driving force in how PES is played, it would be impossible to play 10 minute matches; human beings are too smart and clever,

Which is why, 10 Minute Simulations will never give the user the initiative of thinking, the power of using your "footballing brain" is not possible in a 10 minute simulation,

Konami came up with the Cards and Sliders, so that the "footballing brain" of the user can make more of a difference; you can use the L2 Strategies, and change both the formation of your team and the approach of your team on-the-fly,

The L2 Strategies are a feature in both PES5 and PES6, but without the Cards and Sliders it is not as useful nor as realistic,

Anyways,

The key problem with the Cards and Sliders is that, it doesn't makes the game fun to play; PES 2010 does feels soul-less despite the introduction of the Cards and Sliders.

Because the Cards and Sliders do not really touch on the outdated core gameplay mechanics, it just gives you a bit more control over how the COM will behave without the ball, etc, etc.

You simply hold the L2 button + tap any of the 4 buttons used for passing and shooting the ball -- and this will produce a little reaction from the COM.

This was used in PES5 and PES6, and it works better now because of the Sliders and the Cards; but the key problem is that you can play PES5 and then play PES 2010 and you will see that the games are basically identical, with some slight, and in my opinion, irrelevant differences.

Now you mentioned the word "fan-boy",

I think you are something of a fan-boy, all your arguments revolve around an outdated concept, when people do not agree with your views you insult them, and you have a hard time understanding the points of others; in this case, my points.

For one thing, you are debating with me, but you clearly do not understand my opinion... because you do not want to understand my opinion,

------------------------------------------------------
"Let me reiterate, the concept is unpractical because adding more minutes doesn’t automatically translate into a better video game."
------------------------------------------------------

You should know the difference between the word "fan-boy" and personal insults such as "moronic",

I judged you with the same kindness you initially judged me,

-------------------------------------------------------
"What I want is practical and realistic and will make the game better. What you want is a game that exactly resembles real life football at the cost of removing the pick up and play fun factor which defines the series."
--------------------------------------------------------

Again showing the traits of a fan-boy,

You still think the word "fun" means the same thing for everyone, you are somehow incapable of acknowledging the HUGE difference between 20 minutes and 90 minutes; and you still have no idea of what you're talking about.

As for your opinion,

I do NOT respect your opinion, a lot of people share that same opinion; I think that type of thinking is narrow-minded and regressive.

I don't have a problem with you thinking that PES5 is all that you say it is; I have a problem with you thinking that you are right when you are clearly blinded by your intent,

---------------------------------------------------
"All PES5 controls would need are some slight tweaks and additions married with the ideology of the design of the game(PES5) itself. It isn't simply a case of adding another 20 minutes as you so crudely put it."
---------------------------------------------------

Most of you guys would be happy if Konami simply developed PES5 with High Def Graphics.

As a fan of the series myself,

I can see that a lot of things cannot be properly-implemented into a 10 minute game, and in my opinion, the original ambition of PES will never truly Evolve if the game is based on a 10 Minute Concept.

I guess we have a different definition for the word "evolution",

 

[shaun7]

Even though 20 minutes sounds alot of time but it may become more realistic.
In a 10 minute sim like Amateur said, you can't play a football match because time won't allow it so you rush into things because there's not enough time. Yes this happens in fifa 10 aswell. Rushing and sometimes without thinking because all you think about is time.
In real football that's not the case.
In real football you have to time everything.
However I think that both pes and fifa should stay a 10 minutes sim but ADD a new 20+ minutes sim for those who want to play a better sim of real football.
Still I think that both pes and fifa can evolve more in the 10 min sim part because both of them have close to game breaking issues. Pes has more I know.
But fifa's shooting sucks big time and that's part of football. Fifa's heading is not on par with reality. Fifa's individuality does not exist. But the worst of it is the AI. But it's a different story as to why the AI sucks. Pes' AI also sucks btw but for different reasons.
That said, fifa 10 does play much better than pes 10 but that doesn't make it an awesome sim either because of it's flaws which are still not fixed. Fifa 09 played better for example but had other issues.

 

[OCKRASS]

its not real football

Even though 20 minutes sounds alot of time but it may become more realistic.
In a 10 minute sim like Amateur said, you can't play a football match because time won't allow it so you rush into things because there's not enough time. Yes this happens in fifa 10 aswell. Rushing and sometimes without thinking because all you think about is time.
In real football that's not the case.
In real football you have to time everything.
However I think that both pes and fifa should stay a 10 minutes sim but ADD a new 20+ minutes sim for those who want to play a better sim of real football.
Still I think that both pes and fifa can evolve more in the 10 min sim part because both of them have close to game breaking issues. Pes has more I know.
But fifa's shooting sucks big time and that's part of football. Fifa's heading is not on par with reality. Fifa's individuality does not exist. But the worst of it is the AI. But it's a different story as to why the AI sucks. Pes' AI also sucks btw but for different reasons.
That said, fifa 10 does play much better than pes 10 but that doesn't make it an awesome sim either because of it's flaws which are still not fixed. Fifa 09 played better for example but had other issues.

10min,20min......how about just implementing a 90min simualtion? Then we will be playing the reealll thing. Yeaahhh...:w00t

Amatuer really messed you guys up with this 20min thing, hasn't he? He has been going at this idea for about 2yrs now .just destroying threads with this ridiculous idea of his..seriously.

Why don't we all just start posting what we want (that will never be implemented) in our next VIDEO GAME.

I wants young voluptous women boobies in the crowd when there is a cut scene. That would make the game simulation much better. A game without naked boobies will never ever be realistic. Konami needs to add this to their game or the simulation will not reach its full potential.

Anyone else? :blush:

 

[OCKRASS]

Wash his mouth out with detergent

Its a bit confusing here! I thought we were all on the same side.

We are here discussing a Video Game and all i can see is a lot of cussing no discussing.

Tech_Skill has a lot of solid points and I like the way he puts his points across at times....but someone needs to put him in a headlock and wash his mouth out with detergent. He curses like a pirate ..which is not at all bad.....but he curses at others. Thats no good! :no:

Ladies....Stop the bickering. It does not look good. Make a point...and take a point.

Breaking news!

The blue sky team of 200 is said to have been working on PES 2011 for the past two years. However, the early showing of PES 2011 has raised some concerns for fans who thinks the game looks a bit like 2010 with many of the promised additions and fixes not yet realized. With only 4 months until release, can the 200 man blue sky team fix what they have not been able to do in 2 years?

Your feedback ....belooowww!

 

[shaun7]

10min,20min......how about just implementing a 90min simualtion? Then we will be playing the reealll thing. Yeaahhh...:w00t

Amatuer really messed you guys up with this 20min thing, hasn't he? He has been going at this idea for about 2yrs now .just destroying threads with this ridiculous idea of his..seriously.

Why don't we all just start posting what we want (that will never be implemented) in our next VIDEO GAME.

I wants young voluptous women boobies in the crowd when there is a cut scene. That would make the game simulation much better. A game without naked boobies will never ever be realistic. Konami needs to add this to their game or the simulation will not reach its full potential.

Anyone else? :blush:

You haven't read my post properly have you? Because if you have, you'll clearly understand my point of view which is slightly different to Amateur's.
I said that both pes and fifa can be a 10 min sim but they BOTH need to evolve because they're both not up to date with what the ps3/360 can handle.
Also about the 20 min + concept.
You didn't get my point.
In a 10 min game, EVERYONE tends to rush at things in the game because you do not have enough time. And real football is not like that all the time.
But if you set it more than 10 mins, the game will turn arcade like with goals.
So if we truly want a proper sim, 10 minutes are not enough. If you can't understand this, I do not know what then because it's straight to the point.
However I never said that they can't be a 10 minute sim. THEY CAN.
But it will never be 100% life like because of time.
Still the way I see it is that 10 minutes are enough because I would probable get bored. So I think that evolving the 10 min concept is highly needed because at this point, both pes and fifa have major flaws. In pes they're more evident, but in fifa they're hidden but still felt.

 

[TheStanchion]

Breaking news!

The blue sky team of 200 is said to have been working on PES 2011 for the past two years. However, the early showing of PES 2011 has raised some concerns for fans who thinks the game looks a bit like 2010 with many of the promised additions and fixes not yet realized. With only 4 months until release, can the 200 man blue sky team fix what they have not been able to do in 2 years?

Your feedback ....belooowww!

I think that is the central issue regarding PES2011 - everything else is looking back on a hugely successful past and wondering how and why it all went wrong.

I think I remember reading somewhere that the blue-sky team passed whatever they did with PES2011 to the main PES Productions team a fair while ago - they aren't involved with PES2011 and are working on PES2012 at the moment.

The fundamental worry I have is the same as yours - with 4 months to go, how will such problems that are evident from most of the gameplay videos (as well press impressions) be fixed if they haven't been tackled in the past 18 months?

 

[Ultimate777]

I will be honest when I say that I did not read everything you said in your last post; I simply cannot bother reading through it. You do make some obvious points about obvious things, telling people what they already now, and then you go on and make it even more boring with your pointless narrow-minded insults.

Yep you didn’t bother reading it because it’s basically too much for your simplistic brain and instead pick and choose the points that you want and take out of context and base an opinion on which is not even valid
Likewise your posts are boring and repetitive stressing the same points over and over again while ignoring questions at hand regarding how this concept can be implemented practically with fan boy comments planted everywhere that only make you sound like a spoilt brat.

You even have a separate thread about this grand concept where you just keep copying and pasting from to reiterate the same points in describing your idea, when I already know what you think, what I want to know is how its going to work realistically within the confines of the game while at the same time cater to the many fans of the series which you have failed to explain. Nevertheless I still give the courtesy to respond to each of your points in a direct manner

Yes, there are a lot of things wrong with PES 2010 -- everyone can see what the flaws are because the flaws are very obvious, and no, I do not think PES 2010 is in FACT the best version to date; like you said, it is my opinion.

I do think PES 2010 has a lot to learn from PES5 and PES6, they need to inject some life and soul into the game; at the same time, I can do things with PES 2010 that would be impossible with any PS2 version.

It may be hard for you to believe, but I have a very good idea of how good a 10 Minute Sim can be; I did played both PES5 and PES6 for about three years straight, and eventually, I became bored of the "pin-ball" formula and basically my expectations and ideals of how a Football Simulation can and should play -- evolved -- as a result.

I can enjoy playing PES5 and PES6 from time to time, I still have both games and can choose to play them whenever I want; that said, I do not want to be playing PES5 with High Def Graphics in year 2012,

One thing about the 10 minute time-frame is, how can I make this perfectly clear to you; the lack of TIME... 10 minutes are not enough, 10 minutes does not allows the user to THINK,

If THINKING became a driving force in how PES is played, it would be impossible to play 10 minute matches; human beings are too smart and clever,
Which is why, 10 Minute Simulations will never give the user the initiative of thinking, the power of using your "footballing brain" is not possible in a 10 minute simulation,

Thinking is mainly to do with the tactical side of game and the teams styles on the pitch figuring ways to work around each opponent in certain situational decisions in determining the possible outcome of the game requiring the user to decide when to know to make the appropriate decisions on the field. Skills, anticipation, positioning and ai are cross-referenced to show how they relate to one another and to enable you to plan situations quickly which make or break the result which is where your football brain comes into play. Nothing to do with time, son. If that were the case every football manager game with its 3d game engine would have a set setting of 20+ minute matches and no one would waste their time with its current format because according to you humans are too clever and smart for such time restricted contingency. The tactical effectiveness is something which has been limited in the last three versions as everything has become automated and done for you, leading to less responsibility and requirement of changing and adapting tactics during the game. So there is less thinking in that respect.

This is something konami are clearly working on improving in pes11 in terms of manual output and increasing tactical awareness so I have no idea where you get the idea that it’ll be impossible to make the thinking aspect the main driving force. It can be easily changed from a quick ping pong arcade fast paced game into a more slower measured chest player style game without needing to change the time frame measure and redo the scale from scratch. It simply involves tweaking tactical ai and giving the user great tactical responsibility. You've ignored the fact that Konami plan on taking out assisted AI intervention during matches; while bringing more responsibliy to the users to anticipate opponents threats on goals, giving them the freedom to sense and react to threats where ai dont automatically close space and all run together towards the opponent like rapid dogs. They are working towards taking out the automated function of the ai lending you the hand to chase the ball and cut out spaces and do all the thinking for you. So as I see it that will be the key changing how you think and interpret the game on the pitch if they can do this successfully. Not increasing the game time as its not necessary,

Konami came up with the Cards and Sliders, so that the "footballing brain" of the user can make more of a difference; you can use the L2 Strategies, and change both the formation of your team and the approach of your team on-the-fly,

The L2 Strategies are a feature in both PES5 and PES6, but without the Cards and Sliders it is not as useful nor as realistic,

Anyways,

The key problem with the Cards and Sliders is that, it doesn't makes the game fun to play; PES 2010 does feels soul-less despite the introduction of the Cards and Sliders.

Because the Cards and Sliders do not really touch on the outdated core gameplay mechanics, it just gives you a bit more control over how the COM will behave without the ball, etc, etc

Wrong, the cards and sliders where just new gimmicks, they were never there to enhance anyone’s football brain. The cards have an influence on what certain players can and cannot do similar to stats. The sliders were there to choose to determine how your team set out. You hardly need a football brain to figure out whether you want your team to attack or defend. Using L2 stratagies does have an effect, as it makes the team either go gung-ho or sit back and defend a lead as well as configuring the shape of the team. They were never there to provide the main changes to the gameplay to revolutionise the series. They were there to enhance player individuality and manipulate the movement of a selected player and teams playing styles. The 360 freedom of movement was meant to be the main feature last year which was meant to change the core gameplay but was never incorporated correctly.

You simply hold the L2 button + tap any of the 4 buttons used for passing and shooting the ball -- and this will produce a little reaction from the COM.

This was used in PES5 and PES6, and it works better now because of the Sliders and the Cards; but the key problem is that you can play PES5 and then play PES 2010 and you will see that the games are basically identical, with some slight, and in my opinion, irrelevant differences.

Now you mentioned the word "fan-boy",

I think you are something of a fan-boy, all your arguments revolve around an outdated concept, when people do not agree with your views you insult them, and you have a hard time understanding the points of others; in this case, my points.

You finally managed to realise that the L2 feature was already in PES6 after I had to correct you when you said they were what made difference compared to 2010. I only insult others opinions if they are clearly stupid and not well thought out. If a poster came online and said they thought Konami only needed to heighten emotional expressiveness to the players on the pitch to where they were showing the same degree of dissatisfaction to rl from showing every emotion to their teammates, managers, linesmen, and referees increasing the cut scenes in order for the game to evolve and continuingly arguing that unless these feature wasn’t included then the game would remain dumb, I would simply have to explain to them why its stupid and serve only as a distraction. It’s not me that has a problem with others calling them fan boys because they don’t agree, its you that has the spoilt brat attitude problem because not everyone comes around to your concept

For one thing, you are debating with me, but you clearly do not understand my opinion... because you do not want to understand my opinion,

I understand your opinion clearly, and explained already why it won’t work and why it won’t ever happen. We can even do a poll if you like? You’ve proven my point that anyone you disagrees with you and shows you how flawed your concept is then you see fit to label as a fan boy. Which I take as an insult considering your definition of it is derogative .

You still haven’t managed to addressthe questions where I asked you how will it affect online mode where true gamers want a time convenient experience that is compatable with tournament with friends? how will both the 10min and 20min be implemented to satisfy both sets of fans if only the 20min option has the luxury of having real life simulation aspects while 10min is basically the same model of previous versions? How will this effect master league if 40 mathces per season are 20 mins long?

You should know the difference between the word "fan-boy" and personal insults such as "moronic",

I judged you with the same kindness you initially judged me,

Your definition of a fan boy seems to involve someone who is narrow minded and regressive right? So how is that much different to calling someone moronic?

Again showing the traits of a fan-boy,

You still think the word "fun" means the same thing for everyone, you are somehow incapable of acknowledging the HUGE difference between 20 minutes and 90 minutes; and you still have no idea of what you're talking about.

In terms of gameplay fun in terms of the universal understanding of the word, is the recreational use of the game which brings the casual gamers back for more entertainment and amusement. Gamers in the football genre want a user friendly format that is compatible with onlime gaming and multiplayer use game without putting in long hours spending time focusing on one match alone. Football games you need the correct balance of simulation and arcade pick up and play, Your theory doesn’t have this balance as, your idea is to put two totally different games in one version with the casual gamer missing out on the new systems and prolonging the hours of play. You want to completely shake up that balance and prefer to cater solely to simulation aspects. I was using the 90 minutes as an analogy as an example to the ridiculous nature of your suggestion that 20minutes gives more realism - as is the same to say why not go all out and go like for like and give it real game minutes then every aspect of real life can be imitated surely right, according to your logic?

As for your opinion,

I do NOT respect your opinion, a lot of people share that same opinion; I think that type of thinking is narrow-minded and regressive.

I don't have a problem with you thinking that PES5 is all that you say it is; I have a problem with you thinking that you are right when you are clearly blinded by your intent,

You don’t respect anyone’s opinions,that doesn’t agree with your theory so you are only describing yourself when you point to narrow mindedness and regression. No one wants the game to remain the same simply with new graphics. I’ve gone into great detail regarding the changes that need to take place to bring the game forward, something which you agreed on. You try and take the moral high ground but your still a cretin, the traits of a fan-boy?? What are all these traits? I was under the impression that a fan boy is a supporter of the series? You admitted your a fan, so how come your not fanboy? I don’t think im right, I know I’m right because your idea is unrealistic and wont ever happen in a football game

Most of you guys would be happy if Konami simply developed PES5 with High Def Graphics.

As a fan of the series myself,

I can see that a lot of things cannot be properly-implemented into a 10 minute game, and in my opinion, the original ambition of PES will never truly Evolve if the game is based on a 10 Minute Concept.

I guess we have a different definition for the word "evolution",

konami has the capabilities to implement and evolve the game with new aspects to the the gamplay as they have proven in the past without screwing up the time aspect. ISS and ISS 98, and the subsequent Pro Evo series evolved into ISS Pro Evo 2 on the PS2 and was widely considered to be the pinnacle of the series. So your assumption that it can only evolve ever again if it ever decides to come to your logic and change the 10 min concept is naive and redundant

 

[OCKRASS]

You haven't read my post properly have you? Because if you have, you'll clearly understand my point of view which is slightly different to Amateur's.
I said that both pes and fifa can be a 10 min sim but they BOTH need to evolve because they're both not up to date with what the ps3/360 can handle.
Also about the 20 min + concept.
You didn't get my point.
In a 10 min game, EVERYONE tends to rush at things in the game because you do not have enough time. And real football is not like that all the time.
But if you set it more than 10 mins, the game will turn arcade like with goals.
So if we truly want a proper sim, 10 minutes are not enough. If you can't understand this, I do not know what then because it's straight to the point.
However I never said that they can't be a 10 minute sim. THEY CAN.
But it will never be 100% life like because of time.
Still the way I see it is that 10 minutes are enough because I would probable get bored. So I think that evolving the 10 min concept is highly needed because at this point, both pes and fifa have major flaws. In pes they're more evident, but in fifa they're hidden but still felt.

Sup Shaun,

Forgive me, i wasn't poking critism at you...it was Amatuer. But if i do it directly at him he will come back with pages and pages of descriptions of why we need a 20min sim.

Your explanation is fine.

 

[shaun7]

^Ok then. Cheers.

 

[OCKRASS]

I think that is the central issue regarding PES2011 - everything else is looking back on a hugely successful past and wondering how and why it all went wrong.

I think I remember reading somewhere that the blue-sky team passed whatever they did with PES2011 to the main PES Productions team a fair while ago - they aren't involved with PES2011 and are working on PES2012 at the moment.

The fundamental worry I have is the same as yours - with 4 months to go, how will such problems that are evident from most of the gameplay videos (as well press impressions) be fixed if they haven't been tackled in the past 18 months?

Sup Stanchion,

I read the same comments on WENB i think about the blue sky team moving to 2012. That would not make any sense at all since 2011 is far from finished.

My concerns are genuinely the same as others, the game is clearly unfinished and it is early yet...but how many times have we seen this. In 2010 the button lag on passing was discovered months before its release. Was it addressed?

In one of the articles i read recently, the journalist also report button lag in the current game. We are all just hoping that it will be fixed soon.

I predicted this already. First all the press of great promises then the video then the 10% build ..20 build excuses then the demo then concerns then the release .....and here we go again.

With Konami its always just a full circle.

 

[OCKRASS]

Yep you didn’t bother reading it because it’s basically too much for your simplistic brain and instead pick and choose the points that you want and take out of context and base an opinion on which is not even valid

Hey Football777,

Wassup dude? Just a hint here...you are beating a dead horse.

Amatuer is passionate about this 20min thingy ...but it is not mentioned anywhere at anytime as an addition to any game. He fabricated it. It has nothing to do with PES or FIFa.

Let him bask in his own creativity...its his opinion and he deserves it.

 

[Ultimate777]

I'm aware of that, what irratates me is his insistence and arrogance in believing that the only way the game can be improved is by introducing this idea of a 20min concept. Then labelling everyone else fanboys because they see the holes in it and are able to see that it is no way the only foreseeable option of improving the game to the standards that we all expect. Its fanatical and deluded at best.

 

[fick]

lets all stop arguing and just hope that konami deliver us a great game this year

At last! Some common sense!

I'm aware of that, what irratates me is his insistence and arrogance in believing that the only way the game can be improved is by introducing this idea of a 20min concept.

People are entitled to their own opinions. You were complaining not long ago about people doing the same things you are now. Behave.

One day away & I come back to pointlessly long posts and childish bikering. If I could be arsed to read through everones posts you'd probably all be on a booking.

Pack it in & keep it civil.

 

[Amateur]

Even though 20 minutes sounds alot of time but it may become more realistic.
In a 10 minute sim like Amateur said, you can't play a football match because time won't allow it so you rush into things because there's not enough time. Yes this happens in fifa 10 aswell. Rushing and sometimes without thinking because all you think about is time.
In real football that's not the case.
In real football you have to time everything.
However I think that both pes and fifa should stay a 10 minutes sim but ADD a new 20+ minutes sim for those who want to play a better sim of real football.
Still I think that both pes and fifa can evolve more in the 10 min sim part because both of them have close to game breaking issues. Pes has more I know.
But fifa's shooting sucks big time and that's part of football. Fifa's heading is not on par with reality. Fifa's individuality does not exist. But the worst of it is the AI. But it's a different story as to why the AI sucks. Pes' AI also sucks btw but for different reasons.
That said, fifa 10 does play much better than pes 10 but that doesn't make it an awesome sim either because of it's flaws which are still not fixed. Fifa 09 played better for example but had other issues.

Instead of listening to fan-boys who have no credibility as far as the 10 minute vs 20 minute debate goes,

Just ask yourself -- is 20 minutes really a lot of time? how many 10 minute matches do you play? and what difference would it make if you had the option to choose between a 10 minute mode and a 20 minute mode?

I feel like the people debating against the 20 Minute Concept are in no position to argue against it, simply because they clearly do NOT understand the point of it.

10 Minute Concept -- easy to exploit obvious flaws, boring for purists

20 Minute Concept -- impossible to exploit obvious flaws, great for purists

Anyways, I don't particularly care that much anyways, I don't think that I will have the time to play any video games in the future, and even if I did have some spare time; I know where the money is, and I know that a 20 Minute Sim may not happen anytime soon,

As for player individuality, I think that PES5 and PES6 are hugely overrated in that respect... super-human stamina, super-human perception, lack of dribbling animations, overrated player individuality, outdated games running on an outdated concept.

As for 20 minutes vs 10 minutes,

We have a lot of boring and narrow-minded fan-boys in here,

I have never said that a 10 Minute Simulation cannot continue improving; what I did say was very simple, I do not think the original ambition of PES will ever truly Evolve if the game is based on a 10 Minute Concept.

People take this and they start a pointless debate about 10 minutes vs 20 minutes,

I have no interest in such pointless debates, if the game wants to EVOLVE then a 20 Minute Concept is the way to go, if the game wants QUESTIONABLE IMPROVEMENTS than the 10 Minute Concept will suffice.

I think we can satisfy both parties, by simply giving the user the option of choosing between 3 different gameplay modes, each gameplay mode would revolve around a completely different concept and would therefore play a completely different game of Football:

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* 10 Minute Mode: the same old "pin-ball" formula, with lots of obvious flaws to exploit, such as: super-human stamina, super-human perspective, lack of player individuality, etc, etc.

* 20 Minute Mode: a completely new take on Football Simulation, a concept where the COM would ASK the user what to do, instead of telling the user what to do. A concept where the players on the pitch behave like human beings, with realistic player individuality, and with no obvious flaws to exploit.

* BAL Mode: a concept where you only have control over one individual at all times.
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This would be a proper evolution, an improvement in every respect; and when you get bored with the same old 10 Minute Simulation, you can always give the 20 Minute Sim a try and see how that works out,

 

[TheStanchion]

Sup Stanchion,

I read the same comments on WENB i think about the blue sky team moving to 2012. That would not make any sense at all since 2011 is far from finished.

My concerns are genuinely the same as others, the game is clearly unfinished and it is early yet...but how many times have we seen this. In 2010 the button lag on passing was discovered months before its release. Was it addressed?

In one of the articles i read recently, the journalist also report button lag in the current game. We are all just hoping that it will be fixed soon.

I predicted this already. First all the press of great promises then the video then the 10% build ..20 build excuses then the demo then concerns then the release .....and here we go again.

With Konami its always just a full circle.

If the 'behind-closed-doors' playtests for journo's at E3 complain about response lag, missing animations and transitions, and those other issues identified in the previews of May, then we may as well accept the fact that they won't be fixed in time for release.

To constantly beat the 'its early code' drum is getting stale and annoying pretty fast IMO. I'm not one of those who subscribe to the theory that everything will be magically fixed come Gamescom. It just ain't going to happen, and the next step will be to ask 'why not this year?' What reason are the Konami-apologists going to trot out this year for failings?

If I'm wrong, I'll eat humble pie for sure - but I've been burnt too many times, and I'm getting wise to Konami's schtick.

 

[byrnie05]

The idea behind the 20-minute concept would require the midfield to spend the majority of the game sending inaccurate balls up front whilst a steadfast defence clears their lines constantly and you might spend 20 minutes to see one goal at the end. The investment of a game requires reward and on a time vs reward scale, it wouldn't really add up to a worthwhile game.

 

[shaun7]

@Amateur. Hey, I said it myself that a 10 min game can never be life like. You need more than 10 minutes if you want a proper sim but that doesn't mean that the 10 min sim that are the current pes and fifa can't evolve more either.
I just want both options available. Even though in more than 10 minutes, the game will be more life like. But still the 10 min game can become a better sim than it is now anyway.

 

[Die Hard Pes Fan]

Amateur: I'm a little confused pal. Could you explain the concept to me in detail. Just of everything, what it would include, how it would improve realism etc etc.

As for Football777 I'm sorry but your a idiot. I'm not just talking about this thread but others too. Such as people desribe what they want in the thread (pes 2010 dicussion) 'improvements/ what you want added in pes 2012' a bit of harmless fun, fun ideas, serious ideas, and opinions on other peoples views. But you just basically say 'they are shit' and that we should want gameplay etc. Amateur is right- people who you don't agree with you just give insults. Also same as Amateur I have stopper reading your big long posts, no point reading the same shit over and over again. You will probably say then why are you reading Amateur's, well because I want to understand his 20min concept.


*Now because I don't understand, here comes the idiot remark*


Edit: Sorry mean PES 2011 not 2012! And Stopped not Stopper! Writing on iPod, which has spell checker on and sometimes I hit the wrong button.

 

[thenotsogood]

I'd easily say what Amateur is saying is understandable, and he hasn't been all that offensive, yet he's getting shit. On another note, I fully agree with the 20-minute sim, 20 minutes isn't that long really when you think about it.

That said, I think PES/FIFA need to master the 10 minute sim before even thinking about moving to (or catering for) a 20 minute sim. I think the point where they can even begin to look at that is about 3-5 games down the line. One thing I'd like to add (or reiterate, depending if I've missed it), is that the 20 minute sim should encourage individualism in players. I can't really explain it, but if you spend a good 5 minutes trying to start a build up, it would be more realistic to have one player suddenly have the ability to "do something", I'm talking like the Rooney's and the Gerrard's (hey, I could think of better examples, if you want to argue that fact). And hopefully, the players who have a higher teamwork skill will actually show it.