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Some suggestions regarding the gameplay for PES 2012

MysteryMan

Registered User
Here are some suggestions from the top of my head, probably not all but id appreaciate if you guys read it and comment what you think about them.

(1). Difficulty and Gameplay

I want Top Player to mean a challenge in the playing sense, I want the AI to be smart, fast, exploit the errors I make and be better in each difficulty.
I don't want higher difficulty to mean the SAME but with super stats of the AI players and every single team passing the ball as fast and accurate as Barca yet be as dumb as .... u get the point.

(2). Stats of players

Stats mean too little in this game, 3 major stats like this are Speed, Strenght/Size, Passing.

*Speed*
Players that are really fast don't seem like it, for example Walcott and a Slow Defender can both run towards a ball thats like 20 metres away, and yet the slow defender will run as fast as Walcott.... I mean come ON , Walcott would murder him for 10 metres.... Of course when he gets the ball he will be much slower because he can't run fast with the ball, but if they run without it he is SUPPOSED to murder a slow defender like that, its just the way it is.

*Strenght/Size*
Even if you have someone like Drogba , someone like Iniesta can push u off the ball, thats just unrealistic but it probably has more to do with point 1, where AI players have super stats.

*Passing*
Ferdninand can almost make passes like Xavi, I really see almost no difference, there is some but not nearly big enough, I mean someone with 80 passing stats thats really fast and good dribbling stats is more effective in the middle as Xavi, because u can make the same passes with him, passing just means far too little and it needs to mean alot more.

Overall KONAMI really needs to make stats MATTER, because whats the point of having someone with 95 top speed ,or someone with 95 strenght if it almost doesn't matter against top player, since their players are all maxed or something because KONAMI is unable to make a smart AI.

(3). Shooting

Shooting seems to be wrong in the sense that you seem to almost miss more or shoot bad more when theres nobody around you compared to when your in a crowd under pressure, how many times were u solo 1vs1 with a clinical finisher like Messi and missed the goal horribly? It happens alot, and way too much, and when ur surrounded by players you usually make really good shoots, even when thats the part when you should be mostly making bad ones.

(4). Defending/Dribbling

We need a button to TACKLE, not pressure, if I want to TACKLE the opponent I want the option to be able WHENEVER I want, and if I can't get the ball then its a foul if he goes towards the goal obviously for yellow card and it depends if someone is dribbling u need to have good reaction time or else its a foul, but this not beeing able to tackle when u want is stupid, the computer chooses for you which makes me feel like im not in control.

Dribbling is also flawed, the "tricks" we can perform are not reliant on dribble speed and accuracy or at least not much, so almost everyone can dribble with them and do so very succesfully, it needs to have a much bigger effect, for example someone with a low dribble speed performs them slowly and the defender can tackle him easyer, someone with bad accuracy of dribble may push the ball far too much and someone else can pick it.
On the other hand for AI defenders aswell the "response" should mean how fast they react to foul, it probably does but the defenders don't really tackle much at all, they just run and chase your players around so you always know when they come your way so you can change directions or use dribbles to always get past them, real life doesn't work this way.
In real life defenders usually stand a bit off you and then they either attack or wait for you to make a move , so its much harder to get past them, this is how pes should be, and stats like dribble speed and accuracy for attackers and response for defenders should mean how likely it is for you to get past him, depending on your timing aswell.

I also have a suggestion for "tricks", they should make it invidual for every player not the whole team. So you are able to save 4 tricks to your player instead, hence Ronaldo having his tricks, Di Maria having his, Ozil having his...etc

(5). Stamina

Stamina is flawed, your players and the AI players can RUN all night long at top speed, how realistic is that?
My idea for this is to make 2 types of stamina, one is current stamine and the other is total energy.

Current stamina means how long you can sprint top speed before you start slowing down and eventually need to run normally, this stamina drains very fast but also fills fast ( depending if you run or walk or stand ), so someone like Messi can sprint for idk example 30 metres then his top speed starts slowly going down, and eventually he can't sprint anymore, only run at a somewhat faster speed than no sprint ( if u still hold sprint ), and it will fill fast if you stand, if u walk a bit slower, and if you keep running it will fill slower.

Total energy is the energy someone has, when it reaches red area the player can't run as fast anymore( for example last 20-30 minutes of the match) and AI also won't be so aggressive because the players are really tired so fitness and how players are prepared will play a crucial role just like in real life.

(6). Refs/Fouls

-Refs never play advantage, even if u get a GREAT ball and the opponent makes a useless little foul on you thats almost not even a foul
-Almost never do your players make quick free kicks, u always need to wait...
-Offside if the player ur passing too is offside, even if the ball deflects away to some other player ,even if the opponent would get the ball, it just slows down play and is annoying
-Red and Yellow and No cards at all the wrong moments, you can foul the last man going towards goal and get a yellow or no card, on the other hand a normal foul can get you a red.

(7). Goalkeepers

KONAMI needs to improve them ,they are just shite, enough said.
 

S-D-P

Registered User
Can't be arsed going into depth but off the top of my head...

- Tone down the obvious balancing acts and scripting
- A proper manual switch that actually works, bit silly that the switching is worse than pes 3
- Tone down the pressure, KONAMI don't turn this game into fifa
- faster response when performing a manual pass
- No automatic cpu interventions, I find it fucking insulting when the game sometimes takes over my commands, especially when the game decides to challenge for a header when I have another player selected, I don't wan't you to fucking play the game for me, I don't need help or cpu assistance.
- Manual pass option without LT modifier
- Fix the refs, KONAMI have tried to make the refs give decisions based on momentum, this may be realistic and more like real life(in some cases) but there needs to be consistency. The refs are also biased cunts and sometimes protect the AI. For eg the AI has never been sent off for two bookings, coincidence? as if. No point having a new defensive system if the refs have no consistency. They are better than last year but could they have possibly have gotten any worse?
 

PR3CiSiON

Registered User
I hope they fix the finishing, and turning/movement with the ball. When turning it feels like the guy is a double decker bus! Shooting hasn't been good since we changed from ps2 to ps3 in my opinion, we all loved the days of scoring 30 yard screamers, why change that? Although it's not realistic, it's very rare in the modern game to find a match with great long shot goals. But hey, PES back then is the one that made us fall in love with the game. Bring back big dirty toe bashers!! Lol
 

S-D-P

Registered User
I am in love with the shooting and player movement in this game, think its great. Maybe a tad more fluidity might be a good thing but overall but I like it, especially like the shooting as it captures the techniques that are used in real life, to get power or curve you have to time it right.

EDIT: A bit more variation with dipping shots wouldn't go a miss either.
 

Halfrax2

Registered User
Agree with most of this, but a couple of bits where I disagree:

*Passing*
Ferdninand can almost make passes like Xavi, I really see almost no difference, there is some but not nearly big enough, I mean someone with 80 passing stats thats really fast and good dribbling stats is more effective in the middle as Xavi, because u can make the same passes with him, passing just means far too little and it needs to mean alot more.

I'm not sure this is true, you know. Most professional players (certainly a relatively good ball-playing centre back like Ferdinand) can make decent passes over 10, 15 yards. The really skilled passers only come into their own when you really use them, which means seeing an ambitious or difficult pass, and timing/aiming it properly. If you try that with John Terry you won't have much luck, if you try it with Xavi you'll see a real difference. I did the Copa Libertadores with Estudiantes De La Plata, and it was amazing using Veron because he could play curling, eye-of-the-needle passes in a way the other players just couldn't (like he did in the Copa Libertadores final the year Estudiantes won it, for the last goal... look that up online if you want to see a really brilliant defence-splitting ball).

You have to attempt the crazy passes to get the benefit of those players' skills. If you're just passing in straight lines or whatever, then yeah, anyone can do it.


(3). Shooting

Shooting seems to be wrong in the sense that you seem to almost miss more or shoot bad more when theres nobody around you compared to when your in a crowd under pressure, how many times were u solo 1vs1 with a clinical finisher like Messi and missed the goal horribly? It happens alot, and way too much, and when ur surrounded by players you usually make really good shoots, even when thats the part when you should be mostly making bad ones.

I find the opposite. If you've got a defender up your arse, even a simple shot tends to balloon.

(4). Defending/Dribbling

We need a button to TACKLE, not pressure, if I want to TACKLE the opponent I want the option to be able WHENEVER I want, and if I can't get the ball then its a foul if he goes towards the goal obviously for yellow card and it depends if someone is dribbling u need to have good reaction time or else its a foul, but this not beeing able to tackle when u want is stupid, the computer chooses for you which makes me feel like im not in control.

There is a way to tackle, not press. Hold down X (on PS3) with the stick held away from the player you're tracking, then when you want to make the tackle, jab the stick towards him.

This is the "new defensive system" Konami trumpeted before release, but no one uses it because it's too easy just to mass-press people off the ball. If you do use it though, you'll find it's more precise and more realistic.

Dribbling is also flawed (...) for example someone with a low dribble speed performs them slowly and the defender can tackle him easyer, someone with bad accuracy of dribble may push the ball far too much and someone else can pick it.

That's not what Dribble Speed means though. It's a measure of how fast someone runs with the ball at their feet, not how fast they can do tricks. Stupid I know, but it's Konami's bad translation (most of the strategy options are badly translated too).

In real life defenders usually stand a bit off you and then they either attack or wait for you to make a move , so its much harder to get past them, this is how pes should be, and stats like dribble speed and accuracy for attackers and response for defenders should mean how likely it is for you to get past him, depending on your timing aswell.

Agree with this, just wanted to flag it up because it's very important.

(5). Stamina

Stamina is flawed, your players and the AI players can RUN all night long at top speed, how realistic is that?

Also agree with this very strongly indeed. It ruins online as well (combined with the over-effectiveness of mindless pressure).
 

S-D-P

Registered User
I think defending is an art on pes 2011, however it could be more precise and maybe some work could be done on the standing tackle, a standing tackle that offers more variety and precision but is still hard to master and depends on positioning of the players,momentum,stats etc(we sort of have it now but could be built upon further). The animations could be improved from the defensive side, but animations aren't everything as fifa has clearly shown.

Pressure has to have more of an effect on stamina and fatigue especially offline, at times it can be unrealistic and no team can pressure constantly for 90 minutes at the same rate without more space opening up, this occurs on pes especially against AI , for some reason I don't notice it as much when playing humans. Another problem is when the AI chase you and use gang rape pressure, at times Iv'e had 5 AI players withing 3-5 yards of me and on more than one occasion in the same match. Not that bad all the time but needs to be looked at, I honestly can't be fucked editing pressure values for every team when I just wanna chill out and start a long ass Master league, which I plan to do now as I have a few days off:w00t
 
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