Stop The Scripted Cheating
- Thread starter LEGOFLAMB22
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Trevi
Registered User
I don’t mean to sound rude, but how can it be luck if the league is clearly dominated by him? Playoffs almost always have the same teams too.
I do believe skill plays a major part. Hooligans won his first championship with a clearly inferior team also.
No disrespect intended but I do believe we have different opinions on where luck stands.
I do believe skill plays a major part. Hooligans won his first championship with a clearly inferior team also.
No disrespect intended but I do believe we have different opinions on where luck stands.
MatTheCat
Registered User
If you know how to exploit the games AI better than anyone else and/or strive to play the game in this way faster and harder than anyone else, then you are always going to win against players who dont do this as well/much.
Please note, 'exploiting the AI' is a very different thing from 'playing the game'. The former style will always exhibit a very particular style of play, next to none variation, very very repetitive to watch, disgustingly cynical to play against although I do hesitate to say the word 'play' as it feels more like someone is sitting trying to dip your pockets than play a game of video soccer against you. Furthermore, all players win tourneys do the very exact same things time and time again. Hence why you are very lucky to ever actually see a nice goal scored at these tourneys in the latter stages or when consisting of individuals who have already won tourneys to get to the UK Championships.
I know wot I am talking about, I used to help run the Edinburgh league b4 I had enough of R McLean (little gypo who gets his mugshot in games manual) and his pocket dipping grasping slimey ways......and I still go to the Glasgow events from time to time. Best 3 players there also happen to be best 3 palyers in the UK...Including 50K winner Mark Gardiner.
Amateur
Registered User
Thanks Amateur, that explanation makes it clearer for me.
Not that I agree with your degree of exaggeration, but at least I understand now exactly what's being said. Sure, I agree, it could/should be better, but in my experience the momentum shifts are there, but they're far from making the game unplayable... In fact, I've found that the more you actually play the game the less you notice it, because you get better at beating the com and eventually their momentum doesn't mean a sniff. In fact, you welcome it. Whenever the momentum shifts in the com's favor - the timing of which I wouldn't expect to have control over anyway - all I say to myself is "bring it on b#@ches!!!"
Yeah but think of how much better the game would be if we had the power of Manipulating the "momentum shifts" throughout the game.
It would fucking awesome, in my opinion. But it would require a few New Stats and Concepts.
I used to be like you, I ignored the flaws of the game -and- actually enjoyed playing it. But after 4 years of playing it, it's simply impossible to ignore. Will it ever improve??
In my opinion, the more I play it the easier and easier the game becomes... logically. But it's just boring and repetitive because I have no say in How the Momentum Flows throughout the game. There's just no depth to the game in this respect.
Momentum Shifts are an essential aspect of Football. Therefore I think it would be a massive improvement if Konami ever updates their whole approach on momentum.
shaun7
Registered User
I don’t mean to sound rude, but how can it be luck if the league is clearly dominated by him? Playoffs almost always have the same teams too.
I do believe skill plays a major part. Hooligans won his first championship with a clearly inferior team also.
No disrespect intended but I do believe we have different opinions on where luck stands.[/QUOTE]
Maybe so.
But I am talking from personal experience. Also when I went to my cousin (he has the european version), we played online against a friend and he was really lucky. Guess what. He won.:no: He doesn't even know how to play the game. He always expoits the MAN utd glitch or what ever it is (he keeps crossing from the wings and it's really hard to catch them) and crosses the ball. That's only what he can do.
Now, ofcourse, you must have skill to play the game, but LUCK will always decides the win. At least that's how I see it.
Amateur
Registered User
It's like MatTheCat explained; 'exploiting the AI' is a very different thing from 'playing the game'.
You can choose to exploit all the flaws in the game, in which case you'll win almost every match. Or you can chose to actually "play" the game like it was intended to be played.
In terms of exploiting flaws within the game, that requires skills... But the issue that I have with it is that I find it extremely boring. I'm very good at exploiting all the flaws, but it's just boring and unrealistic.
And this is why IMO the game is more about Luck, and less about Skills. Because when you play the game properly, Luck haves more weight than actual Skills.
I think that if we could manipulate How the Momentum Flows throughout a game... I think that would add a whole new level of depth into the gameplay. Because "off-the-ball" movement is directly linked with the "momentum shifts".
Problem is that (currently) we have no control over the "momentum shifts" -and- then all of a sudden, our Team's off-the-ball movement turns to shit for no particular reason.
And off-the-ball movement is Key in Football, without it we cannot do anything. Sure we always get to 'manually' control One player... but what determines How the other 9 players move off-the-ball??
I think we need Off-the-Ball Stats or in other words Tactical Stats... to fix some long-standing flaws. It isn't fair nor realistic that Messi haves the same "Defensive Awareness" as Claude Makelele.
And alongside the New Tactical Stats, Konami should also develop a New Concept for the "momentum shifts".
If we could manipulate the "momentum shifts" throughout the game, I think that would prevent players from exploiting the flaws within the game. Which would make for a much better/realistic challenge.
I think "momentum shifts" should be The Top Priority for Konami, they must/should give us more control over it. And also over the Tactical game, which is something that Konami already mentioned in their press release.
Plus the obvious improvements; Animations and Movements, Passing, Graphics, etc, etc...
iamcanadianeh
Registered User
Do you set the attack/defense levels to auto or manual? You'll notice that when a team starts to push you more and make more aggressive runs that their level goes to red or just below... At that point you have the option to drop yours, and become more defensive (and also it's a good idea to activate the counter attack tactic at the same time), or try to gain posession and attack them yourself, because you also know that is when they are at their weakest on the counter. I always use manual - always have - but if you're not then I guess it could seem more "out of your hands."
Also - I think this is the first year where certain teams are generally always more aggressive at all times (PES United and WE United in particular). It might just be the first year I've noticed though.
SammyGunner11
Registered User
I barely mention anything about Fifa, but based on the title of this thread, I thought this was worth mentioning. I was trying out this ultimate team feature that my brother had started, and I was winning 2-0. As I scored my third goal, you would not believe what happened. They counted it as an own goal. I've never experienced a glitch as bad as that before. I'm just thankful that PES does not cheat enough to the point where the computer starts depicting the outcome of a game.
i dont mind all that what you posted expect for the appauling ref decisions (a perfect timed tackle) and your sent off and youve given away a penalty or freekick
and
the computer jumping into tackles for you (its supposed to be me verus another player or the comp) not me and the comp verus whoever
and
the computer jumping into tackles for you (its supposed to be me verus another player or the comp) not me and the comp verus whoever
PwnOfTheDead
Registered User
I would take that any day over the infuriating auto tackles/passes/clearances and players stopping dead allowing the COM to run ahead and score...
I have only glanced over the points on this thread so forgive me if I go over points already raised. I understand about the AI cheating but am wondering whether it would be possible to have a game of football in a video game without some element of the so called "scripting?"
I am playing PES 6 at the moment and well when comparing the scripting in it with pes 09, it feels so much more natural. Seabass admitted that there is an element of scripting in PES 6 but I do not notice much and I think it helps to keep the game challenging and fresh!
Obviously given the poor AI in PES 09 scripting is even more noticeable and thus well lets hope that Seabass and his team can sort it out in PES 2010.
I am playing PES 6 at the moment and well when comparing the scripting in it with pes 09, it feels so much more natural. Seabass admitted that there is an element of scripting in PES 6 but I do not notice much and I think it helps to keep the game challenging and fresh!
Obviously given the poor AI in PES 09 scripting is even more noticeable and thus well lets hope that Seabass and his team can sort it out in PES 2010.
PwnOfTheDead
Registered User
There should be no scripting whatsoever in PES2010. Period.
thenotsogood
Registered User
I agree. As Amateur stated in the early pages, that system would work much better and actually define next-gen football. Fifa has a decent system, you score, you can get a quick second if you play your cards right due to morale, but they flaw in the play good get momentum aspect, you could have a near goal line scrap for a goal, and it doesn't seem to motivate them one bit.
In real football, that bit motivation can easily help secure a goal or doom you to conceding another, trying to find that balance would be interesting in both online and offline play.
Also, I'm peeved about what just happened, last-minute equaliser, concede a last-second winner soon after. Just urked me because it seemed the defenders just decided to stop marking (especially the side-backs, my god they suck on this game when it counts). It was my ML team that I've been playing as for what was the hird game, so they sucked basically, and I played a beautiful posession game, and if it was real life, I would have had all the momentum, but I simply didn't due to the system in place.
shaun7
Registered User
Pes had some scripting like when someone plays as Man utd, they always score no matter what, but it isn't even half the amount of Pes 09. Pes 09 is too scripted.
Pes 5 had the least scriptness.
iamcanadianeh
Registered User
It doesn't entirely solve the problem, but... Have you tried changing your SBs to CBs? This has always been a problem in PES, pretty much as long as I can remember, and to combat it I have been using CBs as SBs since about PES 6. However, I have noticed on PES 09 that I almost need them to be more defensive than they were in previous versions. Also, I generally use CBs in those positions (I mean position/stat wise). I know that you shouldn't have to do this, but I find I have always needed to do so to some degree in PES... Especially online, where certain player will always exploit space on the wings by adjusting the positions of their wingers unrealistically high and wide.
Also, like I said before, using manual attack/defense levels helps; that way you have a choice to try to keep them back. Not holding square to defend is important too, because it will drag a second man out of position. Sometimes that can be a SB, but the SB-out-of-position problem is usually there before you're involved with the play in that area of the pitch.
l0git3c
Registered User
scripted AI? cmon man, it doesnt happens every time....
sometimes i tackled cpu striker hard, its not count as foul, and
sometimes cpu striker is nearly to make a score against me, and its just hits the bar.., and
sometimes, in 90+ minutes, i lose 1-0 against CPU, and got freekick from 30+yard, and i scored and the game ends draw...
sometimes i tackled cpu striker hard, its not count as foul, and
sometimes cpu striker is nearly to make a score against me, and its just hits the bar.., and
sometimes, in 90+ minutes, i lose 1-0 against CPU, and got freekick from 30+yard, and i scored and the game ends draw...
shaun7
Registered User
^Skill is there, but LUCK DECIDES THE WIN.
I consider myself good in pes (not the best for sure) and I played some matches with freinds. The ones who play as Man utd or Barcelona will win. Your players will start to loose position for no reason, your GK will make silly mistakes, your players will become slow. While his will become really fast, responsive, his GK will become superman and he will score no matter what you try to do.
THIS IS FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I still like pes 09 though, but I had to admit that.
I consider myself good in pes (not the best for sure) and I played some matches with freinds. The ones who play as Man utd or Barcelona will win. Your players will start to loose position for no reason, your GK will make silly mistakes, your players will become slow. While his will become really fast, responsive, his GK will become superman and he will score no matter what you try to do.
THIS IS FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I still like pes 09 though, but I had to admit that.
PwnOfTheDead
Registered User
It's kind of like a love/hate relationship. No matter how frustrating the AI can be it's the one game that I play all year round.