You make no sense AGAIN.
1) I have already explained this, last fucking time now. NO ONE said MO-CAP = poor player response times.
You understand that. NO ONE SAID THAT.
What was said was, It had been LINKED to poor response times. Now.....I dont give a FLYING FUCK about Nba 2K9, because who the fuck knows how they implement mo cap, maybe the do it different to Konami, I dont know, but no ever said mo cap guarantees poor player response times.
2) Stop fucking yapping about the damn sticks, because no one really gives a fuck about it, you will have a hard time making anyone sane believe poor response times are caused by the fucking analogue stick having d-pad restrictions, If you ever prove me wrong on that, fine by me, I just used simple fucking logic, you could use the damn sticks the same way on PES on PS2....guess what? Response times were way better than PES 2011 and previous fifa's too, even the ones with 8 directional movement.
3) What the fuck has the D-pad analogue restriction bullshit got to do with making a credible AI capable of basic fucking defending, in PES 1,2,3,4,5 6, did the defenders stop still and let through passes go by???? No. And that was on old style 8-way movement. Goalkeeping AI was also FAR superior in those games, again, old shitty 8 way d pad games. So excuse me for not buying into the idea that the cause of all this shit, is restrictions on some fucking analogue stick, when a system which gave you even more restrictions had a better defensive system and AI.
I want the basic shit done first before I start seeing the revolutionary shit come in. Precision means FUCK ALL without a proper AI to support it, EA introduced more degrees of movement to allow attackers to make more precise turns..........
IT DID NOT WORK BECAUSE THE AI READ EVERY DAMN COMMAND YOU INPUTTED, THEY WERE TELEPATHIC, YOU COULD HARDLY GET PAST...... CONCEPT WASTED.
Let just fucking agree to disagree and have fucking done, 10-8 scorelines because the AI is improved??? Get the fuck out of here with that shit, the AI was better in the older PES's did you ever get a 10-8 on 6 star difficulty back in the day............
Fuck me...... 10-8 scorelines because the AI is improved to the point where it can actually intercept a throughball?? This guy is winding me up right???
I need a drink.
I will divide my last say on the matter into two parts which will briefly explain my argument, and after briefy explaining my argument for the last time, I will then give my final verdict on the whole debate; and before I start, the motion capture is not the only thing I have questioned, I have questioned that whole list, which is trivial.
Part I: the reason why power bars exist.
If PES5 had the passing system of PES11, it would be unplayable, it would be a frenetic ping pong game.... where each game would end with 5-7 score lines.
It's easy to say that something does not feels right about PES11 and PES10, but the problem is not as simple as regressing back into the 8-axis era and fitting PES5 animations into the game; nor is it as easy as going back to ISS (which is not even a PES game by the way).
I think that PES10 was the best PES to date, when it came out; and I also think PES11 is the best PES to date.
Fixing the goal keeper, fixing the floaty ball feel, fixing the bugs, smarter AI; are minor tweaks which will only make PES11 slightly more enjoyable than it currently is... but the game would remain dumb at its very core, because the mentioned tweaks would not actually change how the game is played.
So in that sense, I have to say that PES11 is a good video game, and that I do not think it can improve much more if it continues working the same way; so in this respect, PES11 is a good game...
But on the other hand, I have to say that it is a very outdated video game where it matters the most; and that it needs wholesale changes where it matters the most... it's not about adding UPDATES to the same old D-PAD CONCEPT... it's not about making it look pretty and making it feel pretty and minimizing the bugs, it's about actually REPLACING the old concept.
For me, it's all down to the physics of dribbling and man-marking. The left analogue stick currently determines HOW you dribble, WHEN you dribble, and also, the DISTANCE COVERED with the ball; three completely different areas attached to ONE button, this is the great restriction that is limiting all the areas of the game.
In PES10, the left analogue stick determined the DIRECTION of passing and also the POWER behind the pass, we had no power bar for passing the ball, and we all experienced how restrictive it was, because it limited the potential of the left analogue stick; with PES11, we can see how a simple "power bar" has revolutionized the passing game, because it relieved the left analogue stick from the burden of determining both the DIRECTION and the POWER, and by relieving the left analogue stick from such a burden, you now have more control over your passing.... because the left analogue stick determines the direction, and a completely different button determines the power.
The same thing can and should happen with dribbling and man-marking. Currently, the left analogue stick determines HOW, WHEN, and the DISTANCE COVERED.
HOW -- should be determined by the left analogue stick, which has the range of movement, and has all that space to implement different type of dribbling and man-marking animations.
WHEN -- should be determined by a button that is NOT the left analogue stick... In other words, it would be impossible to cover spaces of over 30 feet of distance WITHOUT the assistance of a SPRINT button.
DISTANCE COVERED -- Again, if you direct the left analogue stick WITHOUT the assistance of a SPRINT button, the left analogue stick should not have the power of making your player run through space: it should be impossible to cover spaces of over 30 feet of distance, WITHOUT the assistance of a SPRINT button. Therefore, the DISTANCE COVERED should not and cannot be determined by the left analogue stick.
By relieving the left analogue stick from the burden of determining WHEN the dribble is used, as well as the DISTANCE COVERED; you create new space to implement new animations into the game, animations that would otherwise be left out... due to lack of space on the left analogue stick.
PES11 has improved in some areas, but it remains very outdated where it matters the most: you are always dribbling or man-marking, dribbling and man-marking is the heartbeat of the game, it is the link to all the areas of the game, and it is the weakest area of PES11 and FIFA11.
This is the area of the game that needs the most improvement. You can go to PES5 and then go to PES11, and you will notice that the left analogue stick, essentially, functions in the same identical way... it determines HOW you run with the ball, WHEN you run with the ball, and the DISTANCE COVERED with the ball...
PES5 was imprecise, PES6 was imprecise, PES10 was imprecise, FIFA10 was imprecise, PES11 is imprecise, FIFA11 is imprecise; ignoring the difference in feel and responsiveness, all the mentioned games share one thing in common, they are all imprecise: the lack of precision is a D-PAD RESTRICTION... not an analogue restriction.
Adding directions to an outdated and flawed concept will never fix the problem, it can only hide the flaw, but updating the same old flaw will never actually fix or replace the flaw.
Again, we have seen how a simple power bar has massively changed how the game is played because it changed how passing works; can you imagine the difference that a new left analogue stick system would produce for dribbling and man-marking? and how this would affect the rest of the game?
Part II: maximizing your strengths, minimizing your weaknesses.
A lot of people overlook the fact that the AI felt smarter in PES5, because the passing was 8-axis... therefore, you make the AI smarter to minimize the 8-axis passing restrictions... and Konami successfully did that with PES5 and PES6.
The thing that has gone wrong since making the jump to current consoles, is that Konami and EA Sports have replaced the 8-axis passing with 360-axis passing and yet, they have not changed or replaced the gameplay concept... Adding more directions to the same concept will never actually change or replace the concept, it will update the concept, but it will never actually fix the core flaws................ because it is impossible to fix the core flaws without actually replacing the gameplay concept.
Because these are YEARLY UPDATES.... that's exactly what it is, an update, not a replacement; and, as already mentioned, it is impossible to fix the core flaws without actually replacing the gameplay concept.
The passing system has more directions, yet the gameplay concept remains as dumb as ever: it is a dumb concept, has always been a dumb concept, and it remains unchanged....
Passing the ball from a wide view perspective: an obvious concept, really, do you need skills to pass the ball from a wide view perspective? With the new 360-axis passing, if the players were any smarter... the game would become a goal scoring ping pong fest.
And the wide view perspective concept is dumb and obvious, not because of the wide view perspective, but because the defensive system is dumb and in fact broken.
Defence: you can manually, literally, manually control the direction in which all the players run when defending... and yes, all the ten players on the pitch are attached to the left analogue stick and the pressure button; ten individuals attached to two buttons, and the left analogue wasted on the redundancy of it all. Holding the R1 sprint button when the opponent passes the ball, does not creates any negative nor any positive repercussions, it simply does not affects how the R1 sprint button works in any way... It is a stupid system, a dumb system, with absolutely no substance at its core. Yet it minimizes the lack of proper physics when dribbling and man-marking, it minimizes the weakest area of the game, and this is why defending is the same old stupid procedure.
It was stupid in ISS, it still is equally stupid: today...
Balance: balancing the game will expose the d-pad roots which are currently holding the genre down, we don't have proper dribbling and man-marking physics, a balanced game would expose the weakest area of the game.
You don't expose the weakest area of your game, you maximize your strength, and the strength of PES11 is the new passing system: dumb AI will maximize their strength, and will minimize their weakest link.
The potential is amazing, the potential is there for all to see, but sadly, the fact that business revolves around money; makes PES a yearly update, and yearly updates are likely to never replace what should have been replaced.
I understand why some people prefer the old PS2 games to the new PS3 games, because the old games were full arcade... and a full arcade will be more balanced; on the other hand, PES on the next gen consoles is a mix of arcade with simulation... which makes the game better in terms of passing, but worst in many other areas of the game.
So between PES5 and PES11, I prefer PES11 and PES10 because I get more variety with the things I can do; at the same time, I respect the people who prefer playing PES5, because PES5 was a full arcade, a full arcade will always be more competent (despite the many restrictions) than a mix between arcade and simulation.
I want the basic shit done first before I start seeing the revolutionary shit come in. Precision means FUCK ALL without a proper AI to support it, EA introduced more degrees of movement to allow attackers to make more precise turns..........
That confirms how fucking clueless you really are... oh and, by the way, saying fuck every five seconds does not make your argument more credible.
Before uttering the word "precision" you should make sure you understand the actual meaning of the word, or at least understand why I used the word: precision means FUCK ALL without a proper AI to support it.....
I guess Konami and EA Sports are just lazy bastards for not fixing issues such as "stupid AI" and for not balancing the game, and the "floaty ball" that EA Sports has not entirely fixed after three years; oh, and how could I forget, the goalkeepers who do not react like the super-humans we had back in PES5 and PES6.
Yet for some reason, in PES5 and PES6, I could score a lot of unrealistic long range goals; yet for some reason, despite how balanced and "smart" the AI is, the game is still utter shit.
You talk about response issues, yet for some reason you do not think ISS had response issues; human beings moving like fucking super-humans was not a response issue.... as far as you are concerned.
I guess you are just so full of sense and logic, that you cannot see how utterly redundant your whole argument is, starting with the list of things to "improve" upon.
Your argument is weak, the fact that you cannot see why... pretty much tells me all I need to know. In your last response, you said I made no sense AGAIN; and that's the difference, you are under the delusion that I am not making any sense.... yet I understand your argument perfectly well. You see, unlike you, I am questioning your argument because I actually do understand your argument.
You want a dumb game with "smart" AI, and you think the lack of proper dribbling and man-marking physics, and the bad employment of buttons, has nothing to do with the game being dumb at its very core; and I suppose you think ISS was a "smart" game because the AI did what you expected, and because it was balanced and responsive.
Yet what you don't seem to understand is, that I think ISS is dumb and outdated regardless of how dumb or smart the AI might be, and that I do not want to play that rubbish for the next 3 years of football gaming...
You want them to get the basics right, you want them to start walking before they start running... fair enough, yet, you are talking about ISS in year 2010: something outdated, with response issues, with precision issues, and something that doesn't seem to work with modern graphics and modern animations.
With todays standards of graphics and animations, have we ever seen a Football Sim with good graphics, motion capture, and yet the responsiveness of ISS or PES5?
In year 2010, you are talking about walking, as if walking today was the same thing as walking 10 years ago; if Konami and EA Sports did what you want them to do, it would make the game more boring.
Verdict,
Certainly, I have no interest in telling you or anyone else "I told you so", I just want a better game, and unfortunately, good feedback is important if we want a better game; and unfortunately, 99.9% of our feedback is trivial rubbish.
In time it will be done, and you will see what I meant when I was making "no sense" back in year 2010.
Again, my interest is not telling you or anyone else "I told you so" when it finally happens, when TIME proves that I was right and you were wrong; my interest is that I think good feedback could accelerate the process, and that I think we are capable of better feedback... although I'm clearly under the wrong impression.
With nothing left to say, LET'S AGREE TO DISAGREE....
