Gameplay changes in the update?

Kazuki_Ito said:

Could you try and be a bit more condescending please?

What I saw was that you were saying ML was too easy and you wanted it to be improved. From reading your posts it seemed like you started on a difficulty lower than Superstar i.e. not the hardest difficulty. You then said that you'd made a 4.5 star team out of the Fulham team before the first transfer window closed and that you were winning games far too easily by big scorelines and that you'd won the FA Cup and it was unrealistic.

My point was, and still is, that it seems odd to criticize the game for being too easy when you weren't playing it on the highest difficulty. By starting the season on professional I'm pretty sure that you'd get a much more generous transfer and salary budget than if you had started on superstar and then this must have contributed towards you being able to overhaul your team to 4.5 star so quickly.

I come on here to try and learn more about the game and share experiences. The reason I picked up on what you said was that in my experience, on superstar difficulty (which, at first, you said this had happened on), you did something that I thought would be barely possible. Also, I found that the grind through some tough early seasons on superstar made the game feel much more rewarding when you end up with a competitive side and can start to properly compete.

Personally I can't say I have seen any difference in the gameplay in Master League since the update. Sometimes I find that the way that the game plays feels different depending on the competition and the stage of the the season you're at.

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I'll try to be a little bit more...

Kidding of course..

This response is fine, your other response was way too short sighted and presuming though. You don't tell someone to "get their story straight" without having some sort of real basis to support your claim.

I illustrated for you to see how it unfolded.

Again you have to take real life and time into account.

The game is a month old, I didn't know all the nuances, or balance, or mechanics. So obviously since I had some previous PES experience, I though professional would be a good place to start. I was smoking teams....so I bumped it up...played a few more, adjusted.

2 things, I thought it might be easier, because of "time" and "real life" to just bump the difficulty, rather than restart ML over every time I thought it was getting too easy.

However since the update has made it more competitive for me, I did restart a ML, and I'm something like 15wins, 3 draws, 0 losses right now. CPU has a difficult time scoring against me for some reason...

Though to address your 2nd paragraph. There's a difference between criticizing without reason, and coming on a forum, to discuss your experiences...so you could compare with other people playing the same game, and get their thoughts.

Then you run into small minded people like you sometimes, who say the most idiotic things. Because your point makes no sense.

I am not criticizing a game, because I think I'm so good, or that I'm misguided in trying to win, and fooling myself into thinking I'm winning at superstar because I really should of opened the game and put it on superstar out of the box, without even trying it.

You might not get this, but don't you think, the natural progression of things is, play for a bit, if it's too easy bump it up, try it out, see how it goes, bump it up or down depending on difficulty?

Furthermore, to be completely honest, I don't even recall the monetary difference at starting points...I do know, I ended up buying 2 of the same top players on both level just as cheap, plus an even better one on superstar...and I just signed two more, my team is actually probably better now then it was starting at a lower level....so your point is absolutely moot.

Both times, I bought Aymeric Laporte, and Alex Sandro....which was by chance, since the 2nd time, I got amazing deals on the them, under 20 mil. Also this time around I ended up geting Joao Mario, and with the leftover money I got Mohamed Salah for 16 mil, and CB Rudiger for 6.7 mil rated 79 I believe from Roma....

Here is the condescending part, though this time I'm not trying to be a prick. The shit that you say, makes you seem unintelligent, or lacking in character....I would say uninformed but that doesn't make sense, though it was nicer.

Usually when a person tries to make an arguement, you might want to have a sufficient factual data or evidence to support your theories...

You just assume a lot of dumb shit, without taking into account many other pertinent factors, like time, considering maybe a probably series of events based on real lilfe situations, though not factual in a non observers eyes, can make an educated thought process as how it could of been, maybe even would of been.

Even worse, you pass off your unfounded, opinions on others as though they had merit, when they were in fact, like I said unfounded, without rational thought behind them even.

See what I did, I gave my opinion, with facts, examples, supporting details....

Best wishes.

Kazuki_Ito said:

Could you try and be a bit more condescending please?

What I saw was that you were saying ML was too easy and you wanted it to be improved. From reading your posts it seemed like you started on a difficulty lower than Superstar i.e. not the hardest difficulty. You then said that you'd made a 4.5 star team out of the Fulham team before the first transfer window closed and that you were winning games far too easily by big scorelines and that you'd won the FA Cup and it was unrealistic.

My point was, and still is, that it seems odd to criticize the game for being too easy when you weren't playing it on the highest difficulty. By starting the season on professional I'm pretty sure that you'd get a much more generous transfer and salary budget than if you had started on superstar and then this must have contributed towards you being able to overhaul your team to 4.5 star so quickly.

I come on here to try and learn more about the game and share experiences. The reason I picked up on what you said was that in my experience, on superstar difficulty (which, at first, you said this had happened on), you did something that I thought would be barely possible. Also, I found that the grind through some tough early seasons on superstar made the game feel much more rewarding when you end up with a competitive side and can start to properly compete.

Personally I can't say I have seen any difference in the gameplay in Master League since the update. Sometimes I find that the way that the game plays feels different depending on the competition and the stage of the the season you're at.

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Also just double checked, I started a whole new ML on Regular, and on Superstar, and the budget is EXACTLY the same...along with my post above this, just goes on to further illustrate my point, on your complete nonsensical, unfounded BS logic.

In any case, I do like the game, I actually love football/soccer, and want it to get better, and enjoy it as much as possible. Which is the point of discussing it on these forums for insight and to share knowledge and experiences.

I'm sure there's a bunch I don't know, I'm sure there's a bunch I know that other's might not...it's why we're here. I hope Konami see's some of what we express, and maybe makes some fixes based on what the community is saying. Which is why, we're all here posting.

We don't win prizes, or money, or respect here for being "skilled" or "elite" at the game. I would like to believe I"m better than average, but not so amazing that the game ends up a cakewalk....nothing to gain by bullshitting or arguing really.

I don't mean to offend you, I really don't. But I do take serious offense when someone, who seems to lack knowledge at best, and is outright mentally handicapped at worst. Tells me that what I'm saying can't be true, then tellls me to get my story straight, with a nonsensical basis of as to why, and then spouts some more nonsense, then proceeds to try and make a point, again which has no real logic to it, as I've shown.

I don't know you, don't want to think less of you, but I hope we can both understand this at least.

valencia5 said:

Also just double checked, I started a whole new ML on Regular, and on Superstar, and the budget is EXACTLY the same

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How much were the budgets for Fulham (roughly if you didn't note it done)?
Starting with the default Fulham squad might have made it easier or harder than starting with the default PES squad (Castledine, Arqas etc).

valencia5 said:

We don't win prizes, or money, or respect here for being "skilled" or "elite" at the game.

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But that was the whole point of it! hmy: what do I do now with all these Respect Points™?

DunkLFC said:

How much were the budgets for Fulham (roughly if you didn't note it done)?
Starting with the default Fulham squad might have made it easier or harder than starting with the default PES squad (Castledine, Arqas etc).

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It was roughly 23 mil on regular/superstar with like around 3.5 mil salary....

rebelinho said:

But that was the whole point of it! hmy: what do I do now with all these Respect Points™?

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If it's about gaming eliteness I should be in the negative by now....

I'd hope we win respect for being cool, real, helpful, and kind...:wub:

BTW, can we spend these respect points on cool prizes like VR Goggles and PS4 Pros or what!?

rebelinho said:

But that was the whole point of it! hmy: what do I do now with all these Respect Points™?

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Apparently, you can trade them in at local petrol stations for cut glasses or charcoal briquettes.

DunkLFC said:

Apparently, you can trade them in at local petrol stations for cut glasses or charcoal briquettes.

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If you get the same budgets on different difficulty levels then I hold my hands up and admit it's different to what I'd guessed.

Valencia.. you really don't need to waste your time typing so much vitriol. If you want to talk about me being mentally handicapped then I could ask why you typed 'could of' instead of 'could have'. You don't have to go on the offensive and make me out to be some kind of retard.

I 100% accept that I was blunt and rude in saying to get your story straight. It was accusatory and based on assumptions that turned out to be wrong.

Sorry if I created a stink over my own misunderstanding - I don't want to waste any more of my time time on this argument.

Kazuki_Ito said:

If you get the same budgets on different difficulty levels then I hold my hands up and admit it's different to what I'd guessed.

Valencia.. you really don't need to waste your time typing so much vitriol. If you want to talk about me being mentally handicapped then I could ask why you typed 'could of' instead of 'could have'. You don't have to go on the offensive and make me out to be some kind of retard.

I 100% accept that I was blunt and rude in saying to get your story straight. It was accusatory and based on assumptions that turned out to be wrong.

Sorry if I created a stink over my own misunderstanding - I don't want to waste any more of my time time on this argument.

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Thanks bro. I have a habit of typing a lot, you can check my posts, super fast typist, complete with errors and bad grammar here and there.

I respect what you wrote, and you. Sincerely, for your honest self reflection, and candor in your post.

I apologize also for any offense, though I was actually acting out of defense, but I know where I crossed.

Consider it squashed from my side. As with everyone else, if you need anything let me know. Peace brother....

p.s. You'll never see me type irregardless though...regardless, and irrespective of how fast I'm typing, what I'm doing, or how distracted I am...

Anyway, back to topic.

I've had some new realizations since the update.

I'm actually having a lot more fun. In all honesty I still have not lost since I've owned the game. Which is crazy if you ask me, not for my skills, but in actuality for my lack of them. I'm not a PES god, and it shouldn't be this way but...

Shit is starting to be more well balanced.

I tried downshifting to Top Player for a while, but I was winning by two wide of margins. But less so than before, and on Superstar, the scoreline's are more well balanced now.

Here are some observations:

1. You can make more runs obviously with and without the ball on Top Player (obviously), and the goals end up being way prettier, but more frequent(again obviously). But the pace of the overall match is more realistic with ebbs and flows, there's time for a thought out build up.

2. On top player, there's more balance and way less, of what some people would call "cheating by the cpu" Where there's a loose ball 7 yards away from Hector Bellerin in the corner...and Zlatan Ibrahimovic who is 12 yards away, comes from behind and beats him to the ball, while both are in full sprint with full stamina...this does not happen on Top Player nearly as frequently as Superstar...which is such an annoying game mechanic, as it's like one of those "WTF moments" That you would say, "that would never fucking happen!"

3. On the other hand probably due to a similar equation....the shape of the Superstar defense is tighter, more rigid, and played more realistically than Top Player. Which leads to the Top Player defenders getting beat more on the ball, which in turn causes much more desperation in Top Player by the CPU. The slide tackling, injury crap I was talking about is 100x worse in Top Player. Because they get beat so much more than Superstar. They will slide tackle in desperation when beat, almost every time. With relatively few calls/cards.

3. Though the overall game flow is better in Top Player, the actual play on the pitch in Superstar, is more accurate to real life, almost a perfect simulation of the most active and intense exchanges in a real life match. I was honestly floored by how accurate a representation it was...just in awe. But the drawback here is that while it's perfect like this on Superstar difficulty, the entire game flow that I talked about earlier, becomes unrealistic because it's like this for the entire 90 minutes. The gas is always to the floor, and stamina seems to not be impacted. In real life players would be done before the half if played like this. But perhaps it was intended to be this way, taking all the reviews into consideration, and how fifa is the exact opposite.

4. Because of the exchanges, tactics, and advanced tactics really do shine in Superstar. And you won't score easily. A big problem is defenses in general are too strong. Even if I'm not scoring much, I'm still winning, or drawing but never losing. Because as the difficulty increases, so do your teammates abilites. When I was at like 20 games or so I had conceded like 5 or 6 goals total. I'm confident they'll find a way to balance this by making the defenses as a whole better, not by making individuals defenders superhuman.

Scorelines in Superstar were like 1-0, 2-2, 4-1, 1-1, 2-1....as of my last few games....when I switched to evaluate Top Player, it was back to like 5-1, 6-0, 3-0

Just some observations, but definitely having much more fun now...to sum it up, though I haven't lost, the threat of losing is more present than it was ever before for me. And I've literally had to get lucky with late goals for draws in two occasions. On Superstar you'll have to work for your points, which is good, but the problem is that work rate is at like 110% for the full 90 minutes on both sides...which is not so good.

Cheers.

Wow, very long posts in this thread... I'll just say what I've noticed in the 3 or so matches I've done since the update, in Top Player:

- Ball physics especially when passing seems more realistic and the flow and pace of the game also seems almost perfect now (playing in -1 speed)

- I've been able to do a better passing game upfront scoring from combinations I wasn't able to do before, goals I'm really proud of for the teamwork and for how I was able to fool the opposing defence by getting them out of position, etc

- Shooting seems better... Before if I just shot from the middle of the penalty area most of the times the ball seemed to hit the keeper even when I thought I'd aimed to the sides... Now it seems it goes where I point it.

- Players seem more responsive to controls, I can dribble past defenders better with quick changes of direction and speed, shortly letting go of the sprint button, stopping, spinning, etc

valencia5 said:

It was roughly 23 mil on regular/superstar with like around 3.5 mil salary....

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I hadn't noticed this reply until just now. This is exactly 10 times the amount you get (for both budgets) when starting with the default PES team. Food for thought in case you want to try a new challenge.

DunkLFC said:

I hadn't noticed this reply until just now. This is exactly 10 times the amount you get (for both budgets) when starting with the default PES team. Food for thought in case you want to try a new challenge.

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That's cool actually. I wish there was a setting to control this, without having to use fake players. I don't like that. I can get rid of them, from what you guys are saying, likely for not much more.

But in the grand scheme 23 mil is like not much in any case, but the overall value of the players seems much less. Which would be an added challenge.

Cool but really it may only affect the first season and drag it out more, overall once you overcome that, the game will be roughly the same, delayed a half a season or a season...

Wish I didn't mind the fake players as much, because for example, if you use whatever team, let's say Barca, kind of lose the essence of being Barca without any of their guys....same for every other team.

Thanks for the info brother..

I think having an extra 23mil at the start would make a fair difference. The difference is sort of exponential also as the sooner you have some money the easier it is to make more money through wheeling and dealing.

For me, playing as the fake team is what ML is all about. I realize this is just me and not everyone will play it like this. Each to their own absolutely.

All the dumb fake players have their own funny characteristics (and haircuts). I remember from previous years the names of Castolo, Edworthy, Baroto, Cellini, Ximelez and many others. I loved it when one of them popped up with a wondergoal out of nowhere to clinch promotion or win a cup final. Very few of them would make the grade after a season or two of squad building.

Wish I didn't mind the fake players as much, because for example, if you use whatever team, let's say Barca, kind of lose the essence of being Barca without any of their guys....same for every other team.

I totally get what you mean here, it's kind of hard to explain how I'm totally used to doing this by now. But I can see how it maybe doesn't sit right that you're playing in their kit, stadium and everything else but with a bunch of imbeciles.

Kazuki_Ito said:

I think having an extra 23mil at the start would make a fair difference. The difference is sort of exponential also as the sooner you have some money the easier it is to make more money through wheeling and dealing.

For me, playing as the fake team is what ML is all about. I realize this is just me and not everyone will play it like this. Each to their own absolutely.

All the dumb fake players have their own funny characteristics (and haircuts). I remember from previous years the names of Castolo, Edworthy, Baroto, Cellini, Ximelez and many others. I loved it when one of them popped up with a wondergoal out of nowhere to clinch promotion or win a cup final. Very few of them would make the grade after a season or two of squad building.

Wish I didn't mind the fake players as much, because for example, if you use whatever team, let's say Barca, kind of lose the essence of being Barca without any of their guys....same for every other team.

I totally get what you mean here, it's kind of hard to explain how I'm totally used to doing this by now. But I can see how it maybe doesn't sit right that you're playing in their kit, stadium and everything else but with a bunch of imbeciles.

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Not sure what nationality you are or where you live. From your name sounds as if you're Japanese but...in any case there are a few American movies with this type of theme, kind of funny comparison.

One was in the 80's about baseball, and the Cleveland Indians making it to the world series(which ironically they were in this year and lost in game 7). It was called Major League...

The other was in the 2000's an American football movie with Keanu Reeves called the replacements.

Yea I'm Japanese. I live in Fukushima Prefecture. About 20mins from the nuclear plant actually.

Kazuki_Ito said:

Yea I'm Japanese. I live in Fukushima Prefecture. About 20mins from the nuclear plant actually.

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Nice, the one in the latest Godzilla movie?

yea, the very same

Kazuki_Ito said:

yea, the very same

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Off topic, being born in Boston...my job includes much travel...when I was younger I was always in love with Rome, Dubai, London...and of course Los Angeles...but as I matured, I finally saw the incomparable beauty of the Japanese culture and people....so much of the history, and tradition, but even some of the modern stuff...

Anyway, since you live there, you should go to Konami and have them fix the D...just knock on their door.

valencia5 said:

Anyway, since you live there, you should go to Konami and have them fix the D...just knock on their door.

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The dev team responsible for the award winning, on-pitch revival from PES 2015 onwards is based in the UK.