Advanced Formations (Images)
- Thread starter jMz
- Start date
jMz
I beg your pardon?
It's pretty simple to set up a flowing Brazil formation. Just move the forward players around in formation A and B, then put them on and off during the game. You can also quickly pause and change player if you just want a quick swap. I'll knock an image up for it when I get chance.
Jaroszewski
New Member
I think it'd be nice to give you guys an idea of what a Brazilian thought of the England vs Brazil game. Perhaps I'll reflect the opinion of other Brazilians in the process.
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On Brazil:
Basically, we think Helton is one of the worse GKs of the top national teams worldwide, but our defensive system has vastly improved when you compare it to, say, pre-2002 defense. It matured on 2006 and it seems to be steady, but at the cost of WB mobility, which were key to the 1994, 1998 and 2002 campaigns.On the midfield we have two DMs with good mobility, but they are not attack supporters by nature; Gilberto Silva, as you probably know, stared out as a CB, while Mineiro is closer to a 2006 Zé Roberto style of play, but he doesn't have as much ability.
The problems start with our attacking midfielders, Kaká and Ronaldinho, who can't seem to find a decent style of play. It seems to us that one takes the space of the other to act freely, and Ronaldinho actually is the worse of them: he holds the ball for too long on his feet, preventing Kaká of sprinting and Robinho of carrying the ball inside the area. Plus, Gilberto was often forgotten in a wide open space because of Ronaldinho's self-centric approach on the left (to his defense, he's not used to get any help, as Gio never goes for support on Barcelona).
If that wasn't enough, Robinho and Ronaldinho play swinged to the left, Kaká sticks in the middle, and the consequence of that is that the right wing is always vacant, reason why Dunga began choosing Elano over Ronaldinho, but I guess he forgets that he was a Right Midfielder when he began at Grêmio and during his stint at PSG.
To top that off, Vagner Love probably fits the Brazilian concept of "target man," but we need to understand that he's not Romário or Ronaldo. At this point, Heerenveen's Afonso seems like a better option, but he's relatively unknown to us because he came out of an obscure Brazilian team and plays in a league that not even our cable TV broadcasts. I'm sure Dunga must have better information on him, but at this moment he seems a much better option than Vagner.
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On England:
My personal opinion is that, when you have Lampard and Gerrard, it's absurd to think they wouldn't kick from 25 yards or closer to the goal at least 5 times in a match, each. Also, if you are playing with Beckham, not playing with Crouch seems illogical to us. The Brazilian defense was not bad enough to allow a right-wing through ball to reach Owen or Smith on a normal day, and that day we were particularly decent. Beckham cannot hope to pass by Gilberto, neither keep up with him. If you're playing with that attacking duo you had, you'd be better starting right away with Dyer on the right wing, or at least put a real SB up there, not Carragher! (Nothing against the man, he's better than Wes Brown, it's just that the Carragher + Beckham formula is like asking to have a dead right-wing.)
While you had a bad speed element on the right wing, the left wing seemed to us like your only hope. It is considered by most Brazilians that Joe Cole is the best English player of all, underused by Mourinho, badly used by Eriksson and McLaren. If you get Lampard close to him so they can make 1-2s, and support him with a decent LB, I'm sure England will have the best left-wing system of Europe, from a Brazilian perspective. Too bad for you that Cole didn't seem to be on a good day.
In a nutshell, we feel you guys had that game fair and square, even with the tactical inconsistencies. What changed things around was that Afonso came in to be the man to look for up forward, that Diego is far better at the slow-pace game Brazil was playing, and that both teams were just not taking the game seriously (Terry's substitution is just not the kind of thing you'd do in a game you want to win).
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Tips then:
Get Crouch to start all games if you're playing with Beckham. Otherwise, get a fast guy on the right to compensate for your lack of a fast (and good) RWB; either Dyer or Lennon will do. Get Lampard and Gerrard to be more ambicious on their style of play, because your defensive system can handle it. Get Joe Cole more involved in the game. Finally, get the ball moving quicker to hit the opponents on the counter.
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To jMz: I've been reading your tips, and they're really good. I've been thinking about asking you something. Whichdo you think is the best way to get your best header guys up for a corner? I've managed to find some good ways of getting goals with Omnis' main and "B" tactics ("B" is my main when playing with Real Madrid, for example), but still it's kinda sucky not getting your CBs to go forward. Did you find any way to do that, except for player swapping before taking the corner? Do you think that this "fluidity-emulation" would work with dead-ball situations?
jMz
I beg your pardon?
To get your CBs up for corners, set your attack/defence to full (red) then give them chance to get up. Best way is to quickly knock it up before the ball goes out of play, I understand you won't always have time to do this.
ham_aka_stam
Registered User
if you don't have time to set your A-D line to red before the screen goes black, change it at the corner screen, then change player, you'll see tons of men in the box
you can also set L2 and one of the four buttons to be CB overlap, this brings a CB up but make sure you only use it for corners. it allows you to choose who comes up too, ie someone big and with a good jump and header, positioning and 1-touch pass stars also help.
you can also set L2 and one of the four buttons to be CB overlap, this brings a CB up but make sure you only use it for corners. it allows you to choose who comes up too, ie someone big and with a good jump and header, positioning and 1-touch pass stars also help.
ham_aka_stam
Registered User
oh and jMz, this is the best thread on the site,
i've used a similar formation to one of yours for a while, something like:
------Cf-------
--Ss------Wf--
-----Am-------
--------Cm----
----DM--------
Lb-------------
---Cb--Cb--Cb-
i've used a similar formation to one of yours for a while, something like:
------Cf-------
--Ss------Wf--
-----Am-------
--------Cm----
----DM--------
Lb-------------
---Cb--Cb--Cb-
ham_aka_stam
Registered User
using the A-D method doesn't neccessarily bring a CB up, it just means about 5 players will be in the box, if your CB is a far better headerer than many of your other players he will come up, you will see him move on the radar, if he isn't moving when you are at the corner kick screen, and you have either set it to red before the screen went black or changed kicker since, then he isn't coming
see my comment about CB-overlap though
see my comment about CB-overlap though
Jake Small
Registered User
err
ham_aka_stam
Registered User
nice comment there!
PeteR0CK
Registered User
not sure if this has been explained somewhere, but i don't quite understand the individual attack/defense arrows. do they actually make a difference and how? i assume this directs where the individual player will tend to go (off the ball)...?
i have trouble finding other players getting in the open when i'm pushing the ball up, so i'm often taking the defenders one-on-one when i'm around the box.
any help would be greatly appreciated from someone that's still being challenged on the master league's regular level.
i have trouble finding other players getting in the open when i'm pushing the ball up, so i'm often taking the defenders one-on-one when i'm around the box.
any help would be greatly appreciated from someone that's still being challenged on the master league's regular level.
Omnis
Registered User
I like putting my front players on diagonal attack routes. I find that if I have a quick forward with good response and etc., my front guys will stick the defenders tight. Once I make the pass, said forward will break the back line and the other forwards will diagonally slot into the gaps in the defense. I also notice that, with long through-passes, my front men will pursue the ball in the direction of the attack arrow.
Anyway, I finally found a 4-3-3 with wingers that works well for me.
Anyway, I finally found a 4-3-3 with wingers that works well for me.
Omnis
Registered User
I just told you: The AI will make the arrow's direction a priority as the AI team-mates look for paths to play.
Let's say you have a central midfielder whose position is right on the center dot. If you assign him to attack right (right arrow), you will usually find him playing the right side. If you give him a forward arrow with a right arrow, he will play towards the right but will also run up to assist the attack and/or make breaks through defensive gaps. If you hadn't assigned him any arrows, he would stay in his general area and only move into more playable positions if prompted by you.
Let's say you have a central midfielder whose position is right on the center dot. If you assign him to attack right (right arrow), you will usually find him playing the right side. If you give him a forward arrow with a right arrow, he will play towards the right but will also run up to assist the attack and/or make breaks through defensive gaps. If you hadn't assigned him any arrows, he would stay in his general area and only move into more playable positions if prompted by you.
Pro P.I.M.P
Registered User
I cant wait to see what formations JMZ and Observer come up with for PES2008! I am really struggling with the game and need a good formation soon!
My current formation now is simply 433 with (2 CBs, RSB, LSB), (2 CMs, 1 RMF), (1 LWF, 1 ST, 1 CF).
The back line is pushed more towards the mid field.
It is very similar to default Arsenal formation, but pushing the LMF to a LWF position.
Back line and the the two center midfeilds are set on High Defense, and the remaining players are set to meduim. No low defense. Spaces between my team in general are reduced to minimum to make sure the team acts as a one unit in defense and attack and to create a war zone in the midfeild to the opponent.
I will keep the attacking arrows for later hopefully when I have more time.
Team strategy is set to back line A, and Offside B.
My strategies are offside trap, Counter Attack, Formation A, and CB Overlab.
Formation A is slightly tweaked to free my front line, when I noticed they are man marked ( I will keep that formation to myself for a while). But I seldomly switch to it, except at emergency.
The magic key here is the off side trap. The second the opposition is having the ball, my players perfrom huge pressure coupled with an offside trap (activiated with circle + R2). If you master this strategy alone, You would make wonders with this formation. You just need to perfect the timing. Don't hesitate to activate it, even more than one time during the same attack. When mastered perfectly, this strategy acts more as a bug in this game
. My opponents usually complain about it, especially when they end up the game with more than 10 offsides!
Setting an offside strategy with the back players applying pressure on the midfield make the opponent have very limited space for creativity. Even in those rare situation when he manages to pull on a through pass, your back players will have very long distance (my entire half of the pitch) to easily catch with the opponent attacker.
I tried this formation against possibly all formations played by skilled human opponents and AI. I also tried it in double players, where me and a friend were playing against 2 other friends. I score an average of 5 goals per match, and I concede 1 or 2. Of course, I lost some matches, but I won more and in general I am very pleased with the performance of my team. I even tried it against skilled human players with 4*2*4 formation and yet I had total control in defense and attack. And when the team is set to all-attack, then it is really awesome!
My center back is the third scorer in the master league thanks to the CB overlap strategy and every player in the team, except the goal keeper, scored at least once in by the end of my first season.
Try it at your own risk
The back line is pushed more towards the mid field.
It is very similar to default Arsenal formation, but pushing the LMF to a LWF position.
Back line and the the two center midfeilds are set on High Defense, and the remaining players are set to meduim. No low defense. Spaces between my team in general are reduced to minimum to make sure the team acts as a one unit in defense and attack and to create a war zone in the midfeild to the opponent.
I will keep the attacking arrows for later hopefully when I have more time.
Team strategy is set to back line A, and Offside B.
My strategies are offside trap, Counter Attack, Formation A, and CB Overlab.
Formation A is slightly tweaked to free my front line, when I noticed they are man marked ( I will keep that formation to myself for a while). But I seldomly switch to it, except at emergency.
The magic key here is the off side trap. The second the opposition is having the ball, my players perfrom huge pressure coupled with an offside trap (activiated with circle + R2). If you master this strategy alone, You would make wonders with this formation. You just need to perfect the timing. Don't hesitate to activate it, even more than one time during the same attack. When mastered perfectly, this strategy acts more as a bug in this game
. My opponents usually complain about it, especially when they end up the game with more than 10 offsides!Setting an offside strategy with the back players applying pressure on the midfield make the opponent have very limited space for creativity. Even in those rare situation when he manages to pull on a through pass, your back players will have very long distance (my entire half of the pitch) to easily catch with the opponent attacker.
I tried this formation against possibly all formations played by skilled human opponents and AI. I also tried it in double players, where me and a friend were playing against 2 other friends. I score an average of 5 goals per match, and I concede 1 or 2. Of course, I lost some matches, but I won more and in general I am very pleased with the performance of my team. I even tried it against skilled human players with 4*2*4 formation and yet I had total control in defense and attack. And when the team is set to all-attack, then it is really awesome!
My center back is the third scorer in the master league thanks to the CB overlap strategy and every player in the team, except the goal keeper, scored at least once in by the end of my first season.
Try it at your own risk