Totally true.
Fifa just feels more complete and the animations are better so at first if you're used to fifa the last 2 years, you're gonna see PES as the inferior product because fifa is what they call "eye catching".
But it does lack the word DEPTH like tech said.
So even though both are football games, both try to simulate it differently.
Fifa has a thing that catches you right in the beginning, but pes definitely lasts more (but not pes 08, 09 and 10) because of the difference and feel of teams, the way each team plays and the tactics.
Actually, in my experience with PES10 and FIFA10, I found that PES10 had more DEPTH as well...
I barely ever played FIFA10, and whenever I played against my "hardcore" FIFA friends, I scored one-on-one goals at will... FIFA10 had no depth, after five games I already had a feel of how to play the game and how to conjure a one-on-one situation.
With PES10, that never happened; yes, some people did exploited the fact that Lio Messi could dribble past 5 defenders, at will, but if you know how to defend so that Messi does not dribble past you 10 times out of 10, and if you know how to use the L2 STRATEGIES... you can outplay the noobs.
With FIFA10, I just feel it was easier to play and easier to like when compared with PES10, it was easier to play, despite the superior animations and off-the-ball movement; because the gameplay concept is stupid, and it is clearly aimed at the masses.
Though in FIFA10s defense, I never really tried to like the game, I never played the game enough; I'm just judging on the couple of times I played with the "hardcore" FIFA players.
I think FIFA10 and PES10 were both very poor, FIFA10 for how stupid it is where it matters the most; and PES10 for all the robotic animations and the unresponsive feel of everything, and the overall stupidity where it matters the most, despite the depth.
At least, PES11 is prettier and less robotic than PES10, which is a massive positive for me; and I guess, for the many gamers who have played FIFA for the past 3 years.
I think it depends on your opinion, do you want a pick up and play game or do you want a game with more depth; the people who want a pick and play game will say that PES11 is shit, and the people who don't want to play a pick up and play game will think FIFA11 is shit.
Awful game. I just don't buy the improvements that a lot of you are talking about.
Dribbling still feels bad, animations seem bad, physics seem bad. The ref....don't get me started on him, maybe him being so awful is realistic though? Shooting is a joke. The actual players models look bad (other then a few world class players i.e Messi). The AI is up there with the worst i have seen. Both on my side and on the other teams. The game is void of any skill at all. It is more a pick up and play game then a real representation of football. It is like how Fifa was last gen. I could go on and on but i won't. Because saying anything bad about the game means your a fifa fanboy who knows nothing about football. That is how far the PES community has fallen. You say anything negative and out come the knives!
I cannot judge on specific things, but I fully agree with you, when you say that dribbling still feels bad...
This is where PES5 and PES6 easily beat FIFA11 and PES11: back then it was arcade 8-axis passing + arcade 8-axis dribbling and man-marking... and it felt right, it felt responsive and exciting, because Konami used the d-pad like a d-pad, Konami did not used the d-pad like an analogue stick, and that made the game a fun and addictive video game.
With FIFA11 and PES11: now is all about simulation 360-axis passing + arcade 360-axis dribbling and man-marking... and it simply does not feels right, you know, it doesn't feel right; the left analogue is used like the d-pad, the left analogue stick is restricted by the limitations of the d-pad, it is the same old concept of PES5 attached to a different button, and as a result, it simply feels wrong and unresponsive...
When I want to like it, yes I can like it, and I can like it a lot.... but when you are not in the mood of liking the game, this is when the stupid dribbling and man-marking system will start annoying you.
In PES11 and FIFA11 the players can RUN without the assistance of a SPRINT button, RUNNING without the assistance of a SPRINT button is a stupid system aimed at the masses who don't know nor understand the difference between RUNNING and DRIBBLING; dribbling and man-marking is the most important area of the game, and PES11 has not fixed this area.
So for all the positives, the biggest negative of them all remains untouched. And yet, nobody bothers mentioning the fact in any magazine nor in any website.
The PES of old, how many times do you read the phrase "the PES of old" when you go to a PES forum? PES fans have a hard time understanding that the PES of old was d-pad oriented and d-pad restricted, and the PES of today is left analogue stick oriented and yet d-pad restricted.
That's the bottom line, but magazines never have anything relevant to say, because they get paid; and websites never have anything constructive to say, it's always positives and negatives, I agree or I disagree...
Magazines and websites never have a good idea of how the game should improve, because they don't understand why certain flaws exist, and they don't want to understand, they just want to agree or disagree; which makes their constructive criticism redundant as well as subjective... and makes their whole article, a waste of time in my opinion.
When I read a 3 page magazine article or website article, I do not feel like I'm being INFORMED, I feel like I'm being feed with DISINFORMATION.
It's fairly simple, the fact that no magazine and no website has openly said: "a massive improvement, but at the end of the day, the dribbling and man-marking system is still outdated, it doesn't feels quite right; this is because the PES of old was d-pad oriented and d-pad restricted, whereas the PES of today is left analogue stick oriented and yet d-pad restricted... This is where the game needs to improve the most, the left analogue stick should only be restricted by its own limitations, not by the limitations of a different button."
The fact that no 3 page magazine article has openly talked about what I consider the bottom line, makes me feel like the 3 page article was not worth the read; because at the end of the article I do not feel like I was INFORMED with objective information, instead, I feel like I was spoon feed with DISINFORMATION.
A 3 page magazine article, will talk about 3 or 5 different by-products of the root of the problem, yet they always successfully avoid talking about the root of the problem; this is why, at the end of the 3 page article, I feel like I was informed with subjective and trivial information.
The conversation has turned into a never-ending PES vs FIFA argument, where the vast majority of participants never say anything constructive.