Hey guys Pro evo 2012 cheating AI.

[MrClub]

I know pro evo 2013 is on its way but I have to say this about pro evo 2012.

Dam this game is obvious.
I press players with X and square and its deemed to be a foul, yet the AI can smash my legs off and cripple me and nothing is given, I just saw 2 slide tackles off the ball on my players. Unbelievable.

When a high ball is played I can just sense that Im not going to win it and dont even attempt to battle for it.

When the AI goes on the rampage its insane, it makes passes that are not normal, zips and bounces the ball off everything and blam, you're nailed.

Corners: 3 or 4 corners in a row to the AI.
Im lucky if I get two a game.

When the AI runs its nearly impossible to get the ball back, I just look at my players and think "why bother" when I manage to go on a run the AI can just stick to me like glue even when I do fiddle with the dribble.

Man what the hell happened to pro evo.
Not since pro evo 3 have I enjoyed it, not it just decides when the Computer and even me is going to score.

it can string 4 passes together and your players can be in the way but it still worms a way through.

Do any reviews note the cheating AI?
I cant believe this gets sold like this.

i am in master league first season on professional difficulty setting, I got all the sucky players like macco and gutterez..

Just wow man, what happened?

 

[Craney91]

I read the first few sentences and didn't need to read any more, I know exactly where your coming from. It's one of the most asked questions of computer games today, yet the answer is so easy to find. Its the way the games are today, and the way developers are making them on purpose, to sell you an illusion, so that the next installment "fixes" all previous problems.

Instead of developers extensively balancing the game and making it as complete and fair as possible, todays games are either all or nothing, maximum extreme or nothing at all. There is no balancing point and line, and its because of this, games play like earthquakes today, and very very very fragmented. Scripting, rubberbanding, handicapping, stat reduction, unresponsive controls, inconsistency, odd happenings, random frame rate drops, CPU AI boosts, the list goes on and on.

Unfortunately, these problems will never be fixed, until people who buy games, stop buying them full stop. Complain about relevant problems on forums all you want, nothing will be fixed, until actions speak louder than words, and it starts hurting the pockets of developers. It really is that simple.

It's the biggest reason why I've gone back to my PS2 over recent weeks. I'm sick of getting f*cked over by poor programming, I just want games again that are fair, solid, well made and honest that I can enjoy, most of all. Shove your 2012 gimmicks and graphics up your batty!.....the gameplay today is terrible!

I really cant think of ONE game, football or anything else, over the last 3 or 4 years that has not suffered from these "elephant in your room" problems, now THAT is pathetic.

The last football game I enjoyed was FIFA 08 on the Xbox 360. FIFA 08! 08! 0f*cking8! (and even that had a few problems!)

I've been playing PES6 over the last few days, and it has brought the smiles and joy I used to have 6 years ago back, when it was released. Smiles and enjoyment I haven't had since FIFA 08 on the 360!

The GREAT games stand the test of time, and a lot of old games STILL on PS2 do, and most of them sh*t all over todays installments. GTA, the smackdown games, pro evo, metal gear, hitman....its unbelievable how backwards the game play and attention to detail has gone.

It really is.

I don't think one game I've played on the xbox 360 will stand the test of time, this generation really has been piss poor compared to the previous, but you have to take the tinted glasses of first to see it.....something a lot of people refuse to do because of brainwashing.

 

[MrClub]

Yeah you got that shit nailed Craney.
I just read the forum and some of the guys on here (no offence) are more intersted in the Player models. Thats just appealing to the sparkly gamers who cant dig deep enough to see what's going on.

All i saw in pro evo 2013 was 2 simple things in AI improvement.

1. Full backs make runs.
2. Players move into space.

Yeah shouldnt they be doing that anyway - so as far as I saw there is no improvement in gameplay at all. Plenty of bells and whistles but not much substance.

I remember playign pro evo 3 - man I had free kicks down my own special team (roberto baggio for the AMCspot) I give pro evo 2012 a try as i had been out of the game since 2010.

Seriosuly considering FIFA 12 (or 13) but my leeds united team cant be built up like master league can it? haha.

But yeah for a hour or two today i felt the magic of pro evo only for it to slap me in the face like a little bitch and remind me why I stopped playing.
Sad times with the footy games... but like you say unles we hit them in the wallet it aint never gonna change, and they no for a fact it will always have its following.
I used to think it was just me who thought the game cheated and i was in some way wrong... turns out i was right.

 

[Craney91]

It had been a while since I'd played PES6, but the beauty of the game was always its accessibility and randomness. The millions of hours spent playing that game in its hay day, i have no regrets, the game was an ultimate entertainment go to. Everybody played it who I knew, we'd get around to somebodys house and just sit and play one another all afternoon, winner stays on, tournaments etc etc etc. The tears of laughter, the gobsmacked faces, the goalmouth scrambles. NOTHING beat it back then, and even after 6 years, with the current tech, nothing has beat it, and for me that is the real travesty!

Games haven't moved forward, as much as the mainstream will bang on about. The amount of things removed from games cores over the years, leave todays games emotionless.

I've tried my very best to like todays games and get into them, buts its impossible. Whenever I play them I am ratty and frustrated, sulking, there is no enjoyment, no fun, no ecstasy, no release. I'm just pointing out the errors and problems, till I turn it of.

Another thing after sticking PES6 back on, the very first game, the controls just came back to me almost instantly, its so simple, yet effective and user friendly. It does the fundamentals right, the game just feels right. I don't feel robbed or f*cked over at any time, and when I play it, I'm smiling loving every minute of it. It might not have 360 degree movement, or all the skills under the sun, it may be basic, it may be clunky to some people, it may be arcadey to some people, but a football game MADE 6 YEARS AGO, shits all over this current crop of steamy poo and does a better job of replicating the emotions of football, STILL.

I tested PES 2012 after playing PES6, and it was hard to play, it was cringeworthy. It was like I was playing the game in treacle, slow motion. It seems overcomplicated and VERY unresponsive.

Mark my words, it will be the blind people who play and buy computer games, that will eventually kill them. At the moment, they are flatlining, and only till the average joe bucks his ideas up and refuses getting raped by these developers, will they start to genuinely make good solid games again like they used to.

So until that happens, these games will remain the same, and as long as there are idiots clamoring for new football boots and short white socks (and there are plenty of those blind kids on the FIFA forums) over actual gameplay improvements, games will remain the same.

So until this attitude changes, I'll stick to my PS2, thanks.

 

[techboy11]

Hmm, I'm not going to go into the PES 2012 bashing, because I've played many hours on it this year. BUT - I do think you have an extremely valid point with regards to games/gaming in general. For all the graphics these days, and even an appreciation of some games, there seems to be a general void when I play. Now I often ponder whether it's me getting older and starting to just not be able to put the hours into gaming like I used to, but then I could counter that argument that if the game was THAT good, then I wouldn't be so indifferent to it.

Take Uncharted for example. I bought number 2 last year, and played it, and for the most part liked it. I've had Uncharted 3 since Christmas and still haven't played it lol! My PS3 is basically a media server for watching films, and although I feel that I'm missing out slightly on the Dead Space/Mass Effect/Elder Scrolls etc I don't feel compelled to go and buy them like I used to.

So is it just me becoming an old grumpy b******, or is it something at the core which no longer satisfies with gaming. I think it may be a bit of both, but certainly the latter is becoming more apparent. I mean go back years ago, I'd play Dizzy for example for like a 100 hours, or the Master System/Megadrive/Amiga games. Graphically pants, but just so rewarding and satisfying. And now we have the graphical capability, but it feels like games have lost their soul. When I was younger, PES 5/6 took over my life. I remember thinking about these games constantly, looking forward to a big final in anticipation for the entire day. Thinking about players stats, positions, the blend of team player and styles. PES 5/6 did SOMETHING right obviously. Something that transcended simply producing a football game. Games like SWOS; just killer games. Here you had a game that incorporated becoming an International manager after being a club coach, something that people are harping on about on some other forums. I mean WTF, that was like 50 years ago.

I do shake my head sometimes and wonder just why, especially football games, the biggest game on the planet, hasn't been nailed by now in just so many areas (dynamic weather, playability, models, physics, shooting/passing, modes). Like you say, perhaps developers will never want to nail them and purposefully 'break' some aspects to keep producing.

 

[Sminky]

I decided to reinvest in PES2012 and give it another go, for devils advocacy at the very least. I wanted to like PES2012 and amongst the shite there are some nice touches ... but the AI, It remains deplorable.

I prefer entirely manual settings but was frankly quizzical as to why the AI of my CPU controlled players were so, well lazy. It seemed as if the two sets of AI were operating on completely separate levels.

What really nailed the coffin lid shut was the cursor switching, I was 'refused' the option of selecting a player on more than one occasion despite the new system. Once I conceded a dire goal through it.

In terms of the steam roll-er-ing of CPU through human players, alas this has long been a feature on PES, it's unlikely to ever change. The AI at harder levels is permitted to perform functions like running with the ball and holding it up that a human cannot. Put simply, it forces you to move the ball about. I've personally no issue with this concept, but it is somewhat of a button mash on occasions even with the best players. That and you need to be mercilessly wired on caffeine to compete with the AI with regular success.

I was more sceptical about the AI seemingly processing how I was playing, it began reading the direction of passes even when shimmying to attempt to fool the AI. It's poor coding that gives the impression of prescience. It's generally poor coding full stop.

Suffice to say I've since got rid of PES2012 again, it was a mistake buying it. It's a dreadfully prosaic game that saps enjoyment ... thankfully reports on PES2013 seem to imply Konami have realised how inhibitive PES2012 is and have made considerable improvements. My fingers are crossed.

 

[techboy11]

After Craney's wistful posts, I re-installed PES6 (PC) earlier, grabbed any old option file and loading it up.

It's.....really...really....good lol!

Just everything about it just seems to fit like a glove. The colours, the pitch textures, the graphics are crisp, shooting and passing wonderful, CPU AI varied and fair. Just everything. If the game was just slowed down a fraction, it would be absolute heaven.

Things that struck me straight away.

CPU variety in build up. Game balance. Pitches and stadia just feel and look a thousand times better. Individuality (this was a peach that made me just smile, hit a long ball from LB to RB which I always do in 2012, but the ball wasn't completely on target and Johnson mis-controlled under pressure, just brilliant stuff). Keepers. Defensive lines and unit pressure. Lots of other things that I'm forgetting. My first goal I scored I recorded it just because it wreaked of class. A long ball into the box, an aerial challenge, a ricochet, which landed to Suarez who just angled his body away from the tackler, low hard drive in off the post. Ah the memories.

 

[Craney91]

Love the posts in this thread, they may be long, but well worth a read.

I know exactly where you are coming from tech, regarding the PES 5/6 hay day. The games for me were entertainment bundles that offered joy galore and endless hours of gameplay. Its hard to sum it up into words, but having re-installed my PES6 on PC after a couple of years, it sort of goes likes this, the game is effortless and smooth, there is an ease and accessibility to the controls, you don't get penalized in order for the cheaty CPU to go on its unstoppable rampages, yet the game remains a fair challenge. You dont get prevented from being able to do certain things in a game, like you do in todays games. Like the inability to change to the correct player (Like sminky said)

So it's a contradictive statement to make, that the game is so easy, yet full of challenge. But it's this stupidity that makes the game great, it was great back then, and OH how much have I missed it, after playing the 2 crops of utter w*nk this year.

I tried my very best the other night to play FIFA 12. The first game was a dream, I won it 0-3 on World Class, Germany vs Holland. Second game I won 0-1 Italy vs England, was the game playing right for a change?

AND THEN the third game played out as if I had never come across the game in this lifetime!!!!!

Players not in my direct control, with minds of there own. Committing to the ball, when not directed to do so. Pushing up to the half way line on there own accord, when not directed to do so! Here I am trying to change to the correct player 4 or 5 times pressing LB....AND STILL not getting the f*cking player. So I try the Right Stick, and STILL unable to get the player thats running away from play in a world of his own. Players off the ball defending, not in my control, getting sucked into magnetic force fields, simply for the CPU to waltz past. My shooting is random and anywhere but where I directed.

I turned it of. Is it any surprise? Asking myself the question, like you tech, "Is it me?"

Soooooo of I was back on PES6 against the CPU on Top Player, going backward and forwards, producing a game simply not capable in this generation. I had a player sent of, I was 2-1 up, then they took advantage of the space and equalized. Then out of nowhere, the other team got a red for a nothing challenge on the half way line. I could not believe it, it was hilarious. Both sets of players were fighting, the ref was going nuts, there were players being taken of on stretchers. I scored 2 more on the break late on. Steve Bull grabbed a hattrick for a Classic Wolves side, against a Classic West Ham. The game was simply thrilling, from the first whistle to the last. It was random, it was crazy, there were goalmouth scrambles, there were unexpected moments, it was fun.

IT WAS PES6

 

[Sminky]

There's no doubting the pinnacle was PES6, if PES2013 can capture the essence of that game, well FIFA will be out the reckoning for this year at least. I doubt it though. Since the next gen migration the game has suffered from dreadful coding and inadequate game engines/builds. Worse, the refusal of Konami to invest in a new engine and playing it safe with he current one, which is truly awful.

 

[Sabatasso]

PES 2012 1.06 is better than any previous PES version in every aspect. Yes, there are some cheating going on, but newsflash, there was in PES 6 as well.

Same with FIFA, they got more or less the same "AI cheats" there.

 

[Craney91]

PES 2012 1.06 is better than any previous PES version in every aspect. Yes, there are some cheating going on, but newsflash, there was in PES 6 as well.

Same with FIFA, they got more or less the same "AI cheats" there.

Get outta here! Tell me your joking? PLEASE tell me your just joking? :shocking:

"v1.06 is better than any previous PES version" :innocent:

Mate, Konami removed the ability to even f*cking shoot in the last two Pro Evo's :realmad: and after 6 UPDATES to this one :realmad: , they still aint fixed it!

YET, shooting and the feeling/connection you had with the ball when you caught it, was always one of the things that set Pro Evo apart from other football games. It was one thing that I know a lot of people played the game because of!

It was always "just right", you felt that satisfaction and connection with the football.

Yet systematically, over the years Konami have all but destroyed it. To the point where it is totally random, where it "does it when it feels like it" AND your pointing UP and f*cking DOWN to shoot in the desired direction for LEFT AND RIGHT! :brickwall:

I mean can you honestly make a statement like "this is better than any Pro Evo to date?!? :loopy:

Lets not even touch on R2 shooting shall we? "Oh because its so much better now than it ever was! Oh and the responsive controls, and ability to switch pronto to the correct player, yes PES 2012 is the most ultimate user friendly football game ever made!" :brickwall:

NEWSFLASH, NEVER EVER did or does PES6 suffer so badly with these problems nor with such regularity either!

PES 2012 - The best football game ever made! :laugh:

Someone pass me the barf bag and a bucket! I've got it coming out both ends here! :kenny:

 

[Sminky]

PES 2012 1.06 is better than any previous PES version in every aspect. Yes, there are some cheating going on, but newsflash, there was in PES 6 as well.

Same with FIFA, they got more or less the same "AI cheats" there.

Whilst I recognize the speakers right to an opinion, I for one certainly do not see fact in the statement. I've just played a 2 player Master League on Professional level tonight, my friend and I are PES vets and we got to the end and felt mentally drained. The AI is inexorable in its absurdity and inhibition. PES6 was far from the utopian football gaming dream but it was certainly better than PES12. Simply because it was user friendly.

PES6 was challenging, PES12 is a chore. Having played it solidly for 8 hours tonight, I can honestly say its contemptible FIFAesque dross.

 

[Sabatasso]

blablabla

I have no trouble with shooting as of 1.06. Goal diversity is great, AI buildup diversity is fine, all in all PES 2012 version 1.06 is a solid game.

The reason it beats all previous games is that it's roughly the same in quality and newer, more up to date visually and technically.

PES12 (1.06) = a mix between the two
PES6 = more arcade
PES5 = more sim

 

[abu97]

I have no trouble with shooting as of 1.06. Goal diversity is great, AI buildup diversity is fine, all in all PES 2012 version 1.06 is a solid game.

The reason it beats all previous games is that it's roughly the same in quality and newer, more up to date visually and technically.

PES12 (1.06) = a mix between the two
PES6 = more arcade
PES5 = more sim

PES 2012 is still a crap game nonetheless. Its basics are flawed - passing, shooting, broken animations. Sure 1.06 removes scripting, but that wasn't the only thing holding PES 2012 down.

 

[Sminky]

I have no trouble with shooting as of 1.06. Goal diversity is great, AI buildup diversity is fine, all in all PES 2012 version 1.06 is a solid game.

The reason it beats all previous games is that it's roughly the same in quality and newer, more up to date visually and technically.

PES12 (1.06) = a mix between the two
PES6 = more arcade
PES5 = more sim

As I posted earlier, I played this solidly for 8 hours last night with a friend so I cannot see what you re basing this on.

The basic errors we saw with the game were the AI response and ability to execute actions a human player cannot. The AI is utterly ruthless, players can hold off multiple players attempting to push the player off the ball ... but not vice versa. It's epically irritating.

We found the biggest bug bear on Semi assisted was the response of our players, often they would either run away from the ball, remain static or simply switched to another player. Fully manual was a absurd as the AI of our players wasn't representative of the CPU's.

We won a handful of games with a decent enough team, played some excellent football but found simple things like, pacey players being able to knock the ball on to race into space, awkward.

It's a disappointing game. If you want to succeed you need absurdly good players and wired as fuck on caffeine. At least on PES6 we had basic perks, like manipulation of player runs with the arrows, players attacking space.

Frankly if PES2013 is another trawl of shite, I'll be done investing in this series.

 

[Sabatasso]

The arrows argument falls for its own reasoning, because you have something better in PES2012. Push the right stick once in a while...

 

[Sminky]

The arrows argument falls for its own reasoning, because you have something better in PES2012. Push the right stick once in a while...

Do me a favour, the right stick control is fucking pony. Rarely do you get the chance in open play at top levels to utilise it. It's handy against human players and set pieces against the AI ... little more.

Instead of a button mashing and combo stick wielding footie sim, how about something a little more subtle.

 

[Craney91]

I've seen fanboys, but this one takes the biscuit for me. Because it appears he is a fanboy of a shower of sh*t, this game is impossible to defend and justify. It's plain for everybody to see, at least those with a head screwed on.

v1.06 meaning = 6 updates since release, 6! So it appears to me Konami knew this game had problems, so in all honesty, it should not have been released when it was. 6 updates is an absurd amount, and if the game isn't playing flawlessly after that many updates, then I really don't know what to say.

It's getting to the point where Konami are coming out and saying "this is virtually broken this year" I mean "SHOOTING" will be back next year. How f*cking stupid does that actually sound!?!

I swear, I could face palm all day.

.....and then you meet the blind fan boys!.....anybody got a gun!

(But yes, blablablabla)

 

[Sabatasso]

Long unintelligent post

Did you blow a fuse?

Do me a favour, the right stick control is fucking pony. Rarely do you get the chance in open play at top levels to utilise it. It's handy against human players and set pieces against the AI ... little more.

Instead of a button mashing and combo stick wielding footie sim, how about something a little more subtle.

If you resort to button mashing, then it's no wonder you struggle to be honest. I use player runs all the time, so it's not impossible.

 

[Sminky]

If you resort to button mashing, then it's no wonder you struggle to be honest. I use player runs all the time, so it's not impossible.

It's a turn of phrase. Whilst the idea makes perfect sense, its not practical on the top levels against top teams, you don't get the time on the ball to be attempting to run another player into space. I like the idea but I think it needs refining.