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If Konami Can Implement What Is In The Press Release......

Tech_Skill

Registered User
Then I'm actually quite excited to see this game, I think Konami for once in a fucking blue moon have actually made one or two very smart moves.

Basically, without getting into specifics, the FIFA series (clearly the better game at this point in time) suffers from a clear lack of individuality.

In PES6 I had an awesome fiorentina team, Pazzini was a monster for me and scored many a goal as the top scorer, awesome player, now he was a tall target man and a lethal finisher. Now on the bench i had samaras, who was another tall target man who was also outstanding.

But here's the point.

I really felt a difference between the two players, a difference that justified why pazzini was the no9 and why samras was on the bench, samaras was phyiscally stronger and bit lanky, but had a bit of skill, he was like a low rent dimitar berbatov, whereas pazzini was a bit more explosive, better finisher, goal poacher.

The moral of the story here is that in PES when it was good (not the garbage of today) you bought into the idea of building a team, because you felt a sort of bond with the players, because you saw them as indvidual and would use them for different individual tasks in different games.

In fifa the players feel too samey, and so the bond with the team and players isnt there as much and therefore you dont search the tranfers markets and much for young players and bargins and hustle your way through the mode because there you dont notice the difference between players as much, so there is no point.

Difficult to explain.

But Konami are onto something with the passing power and bar and shooting bar which is affected by stamina, stats being affected by stamina which affects passing and shot power etc..... i think this is good as players might actually have to be more tactical. Im sick of seeing games where drogba runs all over the pitch closing down players and still has perfect stamina to run full speed and defenders with no issues.

Also It's exciting because the stamina along with the passing is becoming an issue in games, particulary in fifa where its difficult to misplace a pass unless you are playing on full manual. I also heard about 360 passing also which is an obvious candidate to go with 360 movement.

I also like this bit also " The players take their natural positions. No longer pursue any ball that comes into its sphere of action, preferring to focus on the attacker"

Again, this could make game more tactical rather than 11 players chasing after the ball non stop.

So yeah, Konami might be onto something here, bottom line is, if fifa can sort out the individuality in their games, I think pes will be finished (but from playing the world cup game, i doubt this is going to happen any time soon) , so the smart thing for Konami to do, is take indviduality to the next level and give the player even more control over the game. This seems like a start....

Who knows, maybe they might get it right this year eh?
 

James_dean

Registered User
Agree with Tech. Taking the indviduality of our players to the next level should make this game a possible top game. And about the bonding with the players :) that is true as well, I dont consider them as my friends but I do have feelings for some of them lol.
I´m hoping for a great Pes game this year built on Pes2010 which was a good game and had alot of good things in it and at the same time many bad things in it.
 

Kevthedrummer

Alive in the superunknown
good lord is that a semi-positive/optimistic post from Tech_Skill? I never thought I'd see the day... Konami may well be onto something this year ;)

PS - you have always ended up being right about the next gen releases.
 

GuNNerZae

Registered User
PS - you have always ended up being right about the next gen releases.

When you come to think of it, you're exactly right. People don't take Tech seriously enough because of the aggressive nature of his posts, albeit having said that he knows what he's talking about (most of the time anyway ;)).
 

shaun7

Registered User
Very good post tech. I also hope the same.
The animations are terrible and so is the positioning.
But if what they're saying is true (whole new animations, TOTAL FREEDOM, power bars, etc..) then they may be onto something this year. Here's hoping.
 

Die Hard Pes Fan

Registered User
good lord is that a semi-positive/optimistic post from Tech_Skill? I never thought I'd see the day... Konami may well be onto something this year ;)
.

couldn't of said it better myself.

I seen it and was like- is that Tech_Skill? But your definately right, he does usually know what he is talkin about.

Good post :)
 

Tech_Skill

Registered User
Next the news on FIFA 11 starts coming out so we shall see what they have got, but if you think about it.

How far has fifa come since fifa 09.

Not very far in my book.

Fifa 10= unfinished game
World cup= Better than fifa 10, but no major innovations.

The areas in which fifa lacks are the areas in which konami needs to exploit and perpahs this is what might happen.

Fifa is very concerned with looking the part, it looks much more like a live broadcast then any other game I can remember, and in terms of options it gives to the user, its very good...definatley the definitive game on next generation.

However.....

Fifa isnt improving the things that need to be inmproved. The game doesnt actually need any big modes and massive in game extras, what it needs is the same things is has needed for years now.

Refined shooting and heading. (The heading is pathetic, seriously)
More Options in the final 3rd.
Less predictable and superhuman AI
EA to test the fucking game PROPERLY before release!

And the two main gripes I have with EA is,

They dont understand that indvidual difference between players are not just phyiscal, but logical. For instance, the difference between players isnt just that one is faster than another or stonger than another or can hit the ball harder than another, but some players can see a pass a lesser player wouldn't think of making.....

In its most basic terms, titus bramble shouldnt be able to make defense splitting passes, because

a) he is shit
b) he doesnt have the mental capacity to see the opportunity to pass
c) he is really fucking shit
d) he doesnt have the technique to pull it off, unless its a 1 in a 100 occurance.

Fifa doesnt take this into account and hasnt done for ages.

Also, in these games, they havent clocked onto the fact that Most teams cannot keep possession like barcelona, thus why barca are one of the all time great football teams. Infact most teams lose significant amounts of possession via unforced errors.

So in these games, you get teams ping ponging it about.

Possession should be a skill, its should be very difficult to keep possession in such a manner

Another thing is, if you try to adopt the tactics of closing players down non stop, your players should lose stamina and be tired in the later stages of the game, which should impact performance.

PES seems to want to take these ideas on board but im not sure fifa does.

Which is why im slightly more undecided as to which game is likely to come out on top this year.

If i had to bet, i'd stick with fifa, but PES might be onto something here, by that, i mean this might be their first acceptable next generation game a platform for more to follow.
 

jameslv

Registered User
Good points Tech. The problem is I just cant stick with Fifa or WC game, in the early days they are very playable, but then the lack of individuality and repetition kicks in. So Im back playing pes5, I could never do multiple seasons of MM, as I do ML. Like you said if they implement everything, I would go with PES. I think EA will tell us how individuality has been improved, but I think it will just be a gimmick. The game is selling well and to the mainstream, I cant see it changing to much, its how EA operate, look at the Madden and NBA series, barely any change from each version. Just my opinion.
 

MahmoudDX

Registered User
all my wishes in the next PRO is the magical trick stick , tricks of fifa + gameplay of PES = The Perfect Football Game Ever But If They Didn't Include More Skills In The Next 1 ................ i'll go for the pes as always. good luck to both of KONAMI and EA SPORTS ........................ pes forever
 

Jess C

Registered User
I think this is the year for Konami.

all my wishes in the next PRO is the magical trick stick , tricks of fifa + gameplay of PES = The Perfect Football Game Ever But If They Didn't Include More Skills In The Next 1 ................ i'll go for the pes as always. good luck to both of KONAMI and EA SPORTS ........................ pes forever

For me the FIFA tricks are incredibly arcady.
 

Tech_Skill

Registered User
Good points Tech. The problem is I just cant stick with Fifa or WC game, in the early days they are very playable, but then the lack of individuality and repetition kicks in. So Im back playing pes5, I could never do multiple seasons of MM, as I do ML.

I mean, for me, fifa is the game right now on next generation, and its does things for me that even the older versions of pes couldnt do. However the above is very true, there is no way you can hammer a game of fifa the same way we all hammered pes in its prime, i mean, was doing 15 seasons with a team fuck sake, and im just not doing that in fifa and cant see it either.

Not to long to see what fifa are bringing in for this year but if its some shit like 360 passing, that isnt going to solve the core issues fifa has and this is why konami's intial promises hold some weight with me at the moment.

Having said that, the bottom line is, when is come to crunch time, konami have a big reputation for borderline lying and not being able to deliver what they promise in the actual game.

Right now im giving them the benefit of the doubt as right now, it seems to have some innovations im interested in, but if see them slipping, ill be on here, and ill be coming down on them gays like a ton of bricks. If they fuck it up this year, they are fucked in the eyes of the hardcore fans imo, but i got this feeling they might release something a little more acceptable this time.

Next week OPM play fifa 11, thats crtitical, anyhow fifa start talking about individulaity in players, pes fans need to get worried, i think there is a way to get this in fifa but it wether ea can be assed to go down that road and if they choose not to, will pes exploit them for not doing so.
 

The Liverpool Way

Registered User
PES5 - 'Awesome'
PES6 - 'Improved Awesome'
PES2008 - 'Bad'
PES2009 - 'Improved, but still pretty Bad'
PES2010 - 'Not Bad, but not good either'
PES2011 - *Prays to god* Please be awesome again... Pretty please :')
 

Tech_Skill

Registered User
PES5 - 'Awesome'
PES6 - 'Improved Awesome'
PES2008 - 'Bad'
PES2009 - 'Improved, but still pretty Bad'
PES2010 - 'Not Bad, but not good either'
PES2011 - *Prays to god* Please be awesome again... Pretty please :')

yeah, thats one way to look at it, here another way

PES3- This is when konami made a step up imo, real kits for the 1st time, i think this was the 1st time the master league had european qualification for the club european cup and equivalent uefa cup (i think im right), improved graphics and animations.

PES6- Placement shot, intergral to the game.

PES 2008- One of the worst games ever made, fucks sake the game made you play against teams with the same colour kit as you, thats how bad it was.

PES2009- shit.

PES 2010- Not a full blown turd, more like diahorrea, its bit more interesting than an everyday shit, but its still shit.
 

muzza798

Registered User
The bonding with the team on ps2 pes was great. I remember when I'd score a goal I'd look at who was celebrating and wonder if they were mates off the pitch or whether they had lunch together at training. I remember well neeskins and zico were good mates on pes 6. Forgive me for my sadness, I was young.

If they can nail down fluid movement and good CPU AI, I will get my jollies off. If they really have these player specific annimations it will blow my mind.
 

Tech_Skill

Registered User
Just had a quick look on fifa forum and i really think EA are on the back foot at the moment, from the posts I saw the fans were asking for one major improvement

Player invididuality.

They were very impressed in principle by what Konami were saying they were going to do.

I really think EA are gonna need to come up with something in this light this year or its going to be a rough road for them this year, Konami at the moment have got serveral people excited with this total control perspective.

EA have got till June, If we dont start hearing about player individality, it aint lookin great for them.

I got a feeling they might say they have implemented it, but it might not work in practice.
 

RAMAXWY

Registered User
The bonding with the team on ps2 pes was great. I remember when I'd score a goal I'd look at who was celebrating and wonder if they were mates off the pitch or whether they had lunch together at training. I remember well neeskins and zico were good mates on pes 6. Forgive me for my sadness, I was young.

If they can nail down fluid movement and good CPU AI, I will get my jollies off. If they really have these player specific annimations it will blow my mind.

well then i think you will be happy because from the looks of it im guessing that PES2011 will be PES6 in HD with a few improvements.

when you look at the teaser the one thing you notice is that the shorts stick to the legs again and that was not present in the next gen games.
the way the player looks around while expecting a pass or looking for space also makes me think of the PES6 era but now with much more detail.
the animations also make me think of the best football game on any console ever, but with added smoothness. so i'm guessing that KONAMI are just gonna import PES6 from the ps2 to the ps3 with the graphics boost we are used to by now just to get there fans back on board and take it from there.
if you ask me not a bad decision.
that's just my take especially after watching the teaser but we will have to wait and see.
 

RAMAXWY

Registered User
Just had a quick look on fifa forum and i really think EA are on the back foot at the moment, from the posts I saw the fans were asking for one major improvement

Player invididuality.

They were very impressed in principle by what Konami were saying they were going to do.

I really think EA are gonna need to come up with something in this light this year or its going to be a rough road for them this year, Konami at the moment have got serveral people excited with this total control perspective.

EA have got till June, If we dont start hearing about player individality, it aint lookin great for them.

I got a feeling they might say they have implemented it, but it might not work in practice.

if FIFA can nail player individuality this year and make the player animations seem less floaty then we can start talking about a problem for PES.
the tactics in the game would also have to work ofcourse.
 

gitarburuk

Registered User
hope pes/we could make dribble skills like fifa.....in real life it is need to fools the defender...not just speedy run n shot fake. dribble skills in pes/we its just a normal and rookie skills...i/m very frustrated!!!! but i love we/pes...hope 2011 its a glory. but i enjoy anywhere with 2010..
 
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