My HUGE PES2012 v FIFA12 analysis
- Thread starter techboy11
- Start date
I'm interested to know what you mean by liked them better?
Do you mean you liked FIFA videos better because they looked better aesthetically? I'd be surprised if you preferred the way the games played out better in FIFA; there was little or no variation in the FIFA games.
I'll give you just one point to think on; how would anyone prefer a game that doesn't have a single corner in two 20 minute games?
Get back dude!
Well, I liked PES videos better. But that doesn't mean nothing in terms of playability and enjoyment in the user perspective, does it?
shaun7
Registered User
Right. This needs to be said as people will not really read all the post that Techboy has written. BTW, THAT WAS AN AWESOME POST techboy. It highlights everything and you hit the nail in the head.
But back to what I was saying. From the videos alone, Fifa looks better.
Why?
Animations and fluidity and also the transitions between the animation. It looks so believable. Even though the game speed is as fast as pes 12, it looks slower because there is no frame skipping like there is in pes 12 (which is a fail in pes 12's book).
BUT. Look deeper. Fifa does not offer the same level of depth that pes does. After a while of playing both games I can say and prove that tech stated the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth
BTW, look at the fifa bolton video. Look at the way bolton scored around the 13 min. THAT PROVES MY POINT ABOUT TACKLES NEVER WORKING IN CERTAIN POSITIONS.
The CPU cuts in from the SIDE, GOES 1VS1 WITH YOUR DEFENDERS (NO MIDFIELDERS PRESENT), passes the ball to the middle. Then, STILL 1VS1 WITH YOUR DEFENDERS, THE CPU PLAYER JUST TURNS INSTANTLY, and no MATTER HOW WELL YOU TIME YOUR TACKLE, YOU WILL NEVER TACKLE WELL, and then the obvious happens. A CHEAP finesse goal.
Thank tech for proving this with a video. I applaud you. If someone disagrees or continues to say that it's not real or techboy can't play are just blind followers or plain idiots. I am not saying go play pes. NO. I am saying that fifa is FAR, VERY FAR from being the awesome game that everyone thinks it is.
EA blinded people or tried to in my case by making cheap AI programming, trying to trick us into thinking that it's a difficult to master game. WHEN IN REALITY, IT'S JUST A CHEAP COWARDS WAY OUT.
But back to what I was saying. From the videos alone, Fifa looks better.
Why?
Animations and fluidity and also the transitions between the animation. It looks so believable. Even though the game speed is as fast as pes 12, it looks slower because there is no frame skipping like there is in pes 12 (which is a fail in pes 12's book).
BUT. Look deeper. Fifa does not offer the same level of depth that pes does. After a while of playing both games I can say and prove that tech stated the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth
BTW, look at the fifa bolton video. Look at the way bolton scored around the 13 min. THAT PROVES MY POINT ABOUT TACKLES NEVER WORKING IN CERTAIN POSITIONS.
The CPU cuts in from the SIDE, GOES 1VS1 WITH YOUR DEFENDERS (NO MIDFIELDERS PRESENT), passes the ball to the middle. Then, STILL 1VS1 WITH YOUR DEFENDERS, THE CPU PLAYER JUST TURNS INSTANTLY, and no MATTER HOW WELL YOU TIME YOUR TACKLE, YOU WILL NEVER TACKLE WELL, and then the obvious happens. A CHEAP finesse goal.
Thank tech for proving this with a video. I applaud you. If someone disagrees or continues to say that it's not real or techboy can't play are just blind followers or plain idiots. I am not saying go play pes. NO. I am saying that fifa is FAR, VERY FAR from being the awesome game that everyone thinks it is.
EA blinded people or tried to in my case by making cheap AI programming, trying to trick us into thinking that it's a difficult to master game. WHEN IN REALITY, IT'S JUST A CHEAP COWARDS WAY OUT.
Right. This needs to be said as people will not really read all the post that Techboy has written. BTW, THAT WAS AN AWESOME POST techboy. It highlights everything and you hit the nail in the head.
But back to what I was saying. From the videos alone, Fifa looks better.
Why?
Animations and fluidity and also the transitions between the animation. It looks so believable. Even though the game speed is as fast as pes 12, it looks slower because there is no frame skipping like there is in pes 12 (which is a fail in pes 12's book).
BUT. Look deeper. Fifa does not offer the same level of depth that pes does. After a while of playing both games I can say and prove that tech stated the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth
BTW, look at the fifa bolton video. Look at the way bolton scored around the 13 min. THAT PROVES MY POINT ABOUT TACKLES NEVER WORKING IN CERTAIN POSITIONS.
The CPU cuts in from the SIDE, GOES 1VS1 WITH YOUR DEFENDERS (NO MIDFIELDERS PRESENT), passes the ball to the middle. Then, STILL 1VS1 WITH YOUR DEFENDERS, THE CPU PLAYER JUST TURNS INSTANTLY, and no MATTER HOW WELL YOU TIME YOUR TACKLE, YOU WILL NEVER TACKLE WELL, and then the obvious happens. A CHEAP finesse goal.
Thank tech for proving this with a video. I applaud you. If someone disagrees or continues to say that it's not real or techboy can't play are just blind followers or plain idiots. I am not saying go play pes. NO. I am saying that fifa is FAR, VERY FAR from being the awesome game that everyone thinks it is.
EA blinded people or tried to in my case by making cheap AI programming, trying to trick us into thinking that it's a difficult to master game. WHEN IN REALITY, IT'S JUST A CHEAP COWARDS WAY OUT.
Thanks Shaun. But we're up against it here mate, this is what I'm up against on another forum -
"PES superior in almost every way than Fifa? Are you comparing PES 12 to Fifa 06? You cant be comparing it to Fifa 12 as Fifa 12 does tons of things better like...
Graphics
Sound
Animations
Defence system
Commentary
Shooting
Career Mode
Online
Licenses (over 550 teams)
The only thing PES does better is the core gameplay but even that is as almost as tiresome as Fifa."
The guy honestly think that FIFA's defensive system is better than PES'.....even after I highlight, with video evidence, the contrary....oh man, the human race never ceases to amaze. The other stuff eg graphics and commentary I've not going to argue with, but I cannot believe people buy a FOOTBALL game, for the sound and commentary, for me GAMEPLAY is like 95% of the purchase.
Sup Tech,
Here is my two cents.
From the videos you posted, it is obvious that Fifa is the better game ...i will explain why.
Lets start with PES
PES is played at an unrealistic high pace. If you notice in all the games you posted, your players were always darting at each others goals endlessly. Its either attack or counter attack, nobody plays the ball around their area. Do they ever tire? (They do in Fifa)
The basic premise of PES is pass, run fast, pass and shoot. Everyone should know this by now.
Now outside of that comes the collision.
Because of the high pace in the PES games, counter attacks and interception is lethal. (This is how you conceded and scored most of the goals ). Once the sprinting starts the ball is passed quite quickly up-field (hardly any back passes are made).
Once you lose the ball because of this quick pace, rebounds are evident everywhere and goals can be scored easily or you then head in the other direction at the same quick pace on a counter. This evident in all the PES games you posted.
Sprinters trapped on the wing, seems to just run endlessly out of play since the 180 degree turns are usually met by another speedy defender in close chase.
This makes the game look horrid, unrealistic and tiresome.
Lastly, I see where you spew a lot of balls in the air forward for darting players which most times ends up nowhere....however you do not use air balls in Fifa.....do you know why?
Players run and turn in some really fast ways....too fast.
These are just a few problems I have spotted so far.
peace
So, in the end it depends on perspective on what makes the game for anyone.
Anyway OCKRASS, basically for you PES is worst because of the unrealistically quick movements and passing speeds causing the game to bring out a pacey end to end football, and of course animations.
I don't agree with the long ball comment. I mean long balls are actually quite lethal in the game especially when your target man is tall. I sometimes think it is way too lethal.
For me what makes it obvious from the videos that makes PES better than FIFA is simply the variety that the game puts out. in FIFA, once you get how to actually 'exploit' in the game, you can do it over and over again without fail. In my opinion, variety is everything in any game, i would not play any game twice, if i was going to do exactly the same thing. For every game i bought, i never actually played the campaign, story, or whatever you call it twice or more; but that's just me.
i think tech did indirectly highlight the speed problems, and him and I brought out solutions like introducing a better stamina system and programming the AI. Bad animations are just animations, though still one of the most primary aspects of any game; better animations give out more variety on how the game is played, making the game to actually look slower. I mean add more animations to the existing animations, and the players would perform realistic moves at realistic speeds. I mean imagine if one were to slow the the dribbling animations and other animations in pes, it would look incredibly robotic; one reason why people say that animations in pes 2012 look smoother than pes 2011.
Anyway OCKRASS, basically for you PES is worst because of the unrealistically quick movements and passing speeds causing the game to bring out a pacey end to end football, and of course animations.
I don't agree with the long ball comment. I mean long balls are actually quite lethal in the game especially when your target man is tall. I sometimes think it is way too lethal.
For me what makes it obvious from the videos that makes PES better than FIFA is simply the variety that the game puts out. in FIFA, once you get how to actually 'exploit' in the game, you can do it over and over again without fail. In my opinion, variety is everything in any game, i would not play any game twice, if i was going to do exactly the same thing. For every game i bought, i never actually played the campaign, story, or whatever you call it twice or more; but that's just me.
i think tech did indirectly highlight the speed problems, and him and I brought out solutions like introducing a better stamina system and programming the AI. Bad animations are just animations, though still one of the most primary aspects of any game; better animations give out more variety on how the game is played, making the game to actually look slower. I mean add more animations to the existing animations, and the players would perform realistic moves at realistic speeds. I mean imagine if one were to slow the the dribbling animations and other animations in pes, it would look incredibly robotic; one reason why people say that animations in pes 2012 look smoother than pes 2011.
Sup,
Your first statement says it all. Its all about preference.
I did not say long balls are not lethal, just in the sense of how it is used in the fast paced game. Unless you are quite open in PES there is always an opponent to challenge the ball.
From all the videos posted by tech, all the games play the same way, including the Fifa games.
It is evident (and he admits it) that Tech isn't that good with Fifa.
I do not play Fifa like Tech does. Here are a few things i see wrong with his game.
He gambles with his defenders, which leaves him vulnerable for thru balls.
He constantly presses forward (like he does with PES) no backward passes. He had some open spaces but didn't recognize them since they were back passes to take him to the other side of the field.
He lacks player skill movements to beat defenders (you cant' just run past them in Fifa)
He didn't use air balls to switch to wing attacks.
In summation, I will say this. PES lacks variety in gameplay. It is always pass, run fast, pass and shoot. All the videos posted clearly showed that. I did not see any "build up play" at all.
PES players are always ready to go at 60 miles hour from get go ...Fifa players start with a jog into a run...does anyone know this?
Fifa has a lot more variety because there are several ways to play the game. Maybe just like how Tech played and there is also the way the game was designed to be played....with tactics, patience and skills.
Again, I will state that no PES player will like the style of Fifa since it requires a little more practice to learn the "exploits" as you describe them..............which by the way can be countered.
peace
Techboy11
Nice post. Both EA and Konami should read it to help them improve their games.
Shows why I don't enjoy FIFA. Its dull and tiresome with poor AI.
I wouldn't say the tackling system is perfect. Nothing is perfect. Its a good system that could do with a couple of small tweaks. Make players slightly better at getting their foot on the ball. Plus it needs a bit more physicality added. Vidic is unlikely to let Walcott skip past him if he is in touching distance (IRL). He would put his arm across, sneakily tug his shirt or just blatantly haul him over as a last resort. They have adjusted the speeds since the demo to reduce the effect of fast players, as players were complaining the game was too weighted in favour of fast dribbling. But it was nearly spot on before. They should have addressed the issue by tweaking the tackling and adding extra physicality.
baangus
EA do aim towards the online multiplayer. And playing it that way does mask a lot of the AI flaws as its more down to human control. But, unless you are playing 11vs11, you still have to rely on cpu teammates, which are woefully unrealistic. I don't like FIFA games against the cpu at all, but its ok against humans.
ilyasmad
Agreed about cpu players trying to take on and dribble past/through players too often. Really noticeable on BAL.
Pes is in no way perfect, but they have done the hard bit better than FIFA. The AI. It plays a better game. There are lots of areas PES could improve on, that seem like they would be relatively easy to implement. Where as FIFA does a lot of the easy stuff right but the AI is bettered by games dating back to the PS2.
Some comments on here highlight that people either don't see, don't want to see, or just don't care about the failings with FIFA. The animations are nice though
Nice post. Both EA and Konami should read it to help them improve their games.
Shows why I don't enjoy FIFA. Its dull and tiresome with poor AI.
I wouldn't say the tackling system is perfect. Nothing is perfect. Its a good system that could do with a couple of small tweaks. Make players slightly better at getting their foot on the ball. Plus it needs a bit more physicality added. Vidic is unlikely to let Walcott skip past him if he is in touching distance (IRL). He would put his arm across, sneakily tug his shirt or just blatantly haul him over as a last resort. They have adjusted the speeds since the demo to reduce the effect of fast players, as players were complaining the game was too weighted in favour of fast dribbling. But it was nearly spot on before. They should have addressed the issue by tweaking the tackling and adding extra physicality.
baangus
EA do aim towards the online multiplayer. And playing it that way does mask a lot of the AI flaws as its more down to human control. But, unless you are playing 11vs11, you still have to rely on cpu teammates, which are woefully unrealistic. I don't like FIFA games against the cpu at all, but its ok against humans.
ilyasmad
Agreed about cpu players trying to take on and dribble past/through players too often. Really noticeable on BAL.
Pes is in no way perfect, but they have done the hard bit better than FIFA. The AI. It plays a better game. There are lots of areas PES could improve on, that seem like they would be relatively easy to implement. Where as FIFA does a lot of the easy stuff right but the AI is bettered by games dating back to the PS2.
Some comments on here highlight that people either don't see, don't want to see, or just don't care about the failings with FIFA. The animations are nice though
"baangus -- EA do aim towards the online multiplayer. And playing it that way does mask a lot of the AI flaws as its more down to human control. But, unless you are playing 11vs11, you still have to rely on cpu teammates, which are woefully unrealistic. I don't like FIFA games against the cpu at all, but its ok against humans."
I've been very impressed with the CPU-controlled teammate play in FIFA 12. My players constantly engage defenders and block shots while I'm controlling another player. A far cry from PES 2011 where my CPU-controlled teammates continually turned and ran away from the CPU ball carrier, allowing the CPU easy shots on goal. Regardless, I've read complaints about both FIFA and PES this year about the lack of CPU-controlled teammate assistance, so I honestly don't feel you can use that as a valid argument to criticize only FIFA.
I've been very impressed with the CPU-controlled teammate play in FIFA 12. My players constantly engage defenders and block shots while I'm controlling another player. A far cry from PES 2011 where my CPU-controlled teammates continually turned and ran away from the CPU ball carrier, allowing the CPU easy shots on goal. Regardless, I've read complaints about both FIFA and PES this year about the lack of CPU-controlled teammate assistance, so I honestly don't feel you can use that as a valid argument to criticize only FIFA.
OCKRASS
I'll counter you -
I do agree on reflection that the PES games were too fast, I have been tweaking this recently, and have settled on a slower figure. The games i played this morning were very good. I spent some time watching some CPU games to gauge how quickly some players would cover the ground in real life, so I've slowed things down.
I mentioned in the analysis, long balls in FIFA are quite pointless, since the aerial ball coming into a melee isn't a lottery, like a should be. As you go up the skill levels in FIFA all that happens isthat the CPU cheat more, not become better. There is a huge difference between the two.
As for the 'player skill movement' point, in PES you can beat a man if you are technically able enough, I'll show clips of Suarez doing it. It's called momentum and inertia. I try not to go down the button combination skill moves, for me this is Street Fighter killing combo territory, you should be able to beat a man using basic dribbling should all the variables be in place.
I will admit that I was a little rusty with FIFA, I'd expect to be, it was over a month since I played it last, but from what I even played, I reckon with two days with it, I'd have found all the glitches in the game and got up to a decent standard in no time.
I must admit the game I have with PES at the moment is near enough perfect for me, but I am intrigued, and I might make it my little project over the next week or so, to try and get FIFA playing like a game of football with settings and slider tweaks.
Why does everyone raise the poor argument that pes is better because itt has better AI?
When Pes 2011 was out, everyone recognised FIFA's AI is good and better than pes 2011 AI and noone said anything about that.
But when theres that 1 year when PES has better AI everyone makes it the centre of arguments. FIFA 09 put this core concept of teammates moving and having their own minds and this has slowly developed the series. But know everyone PESFAN regards FIFA AI to be poor and PES to be miles better. PES deosn't have great AI - just because players move like retards in weird positions and just stop doesn't mean they have better AI. In BAL, my teammates are retarded and always pass the ball in stupid areas or try scoring from weird angles.
pes has the crappy AI as players just let the ball go past them because the pass wasn't perfect - I mean whoever does that?
When Pes 2011 was out, everyone recognised FIFA's AI is good and better than pes 2011 AI and noone said anything about that.
But when theres that 1 year when PES has better AI everyone makes it the centre of arguments. FIFA 09 put this core concept of teammates moving and having their own minds and this has slowly developed the series. But know everyone PESFAN regards FIFA AI to be poor and PES to be miles better. PES deosn't have great AI - just because players move like retards in weird positions and just stop doesn't mean they have better AI. In BAL, my teammates are retarded and always pass the ball in stupid areas or try scoring from weird angles.
pes has the crappy AI as players just let the ball go past them because the pass wasn't perfect - I mean whoever does that?
Which AI did you say was good, FIFA11?
FIFA's AI has never been good, that's the issue. FIFA11's AI was terrible, the top teams would just go three passes from their box to yours every time. But I must admit to liking it as a game (AS A GAME NOT AS A FOOTBALL SIM, BIG DIFFERENCE). I had some great online games with FIFA11.
FIFA 11's AI isn't good, but it was compared to PES 2011. Pes 2012's AI isn't good two as in BAL I get quite frankly annoyed when they start playing possession when we are 1-0 down in the last minute. Or in crosses they aim for the smallest man.Or when they stop in a counter attack, do a speed burst and shoot from weird angles.
Or one of the biggest issues, when they blast the ball out for the opposition's sidet throw eventhough it was clearly going out for a goal kick. There are a lot of examples which hardly ever happen to me in Virtual Pro
Or one of the biggest issues, when they blast the ball out for the opposition's sidet throw eventhough it was clearly going out for a goal kick. There are a lot of examples which hardly ever happen to me in Virtual Pro
NOOOOOOOOOOOO
You are being a fan boy and defender of PES now - in that match there was no defenders running away from thorugh balls or the whole box werent filled with defenders and if you look at the display stats, chelsea had 4 shots on target. It wasn't fast paced, normal paced. Probably a bit fast at the middle but it evened out in the end with a slower pace.
Oh Jesus, how much more evidence do you need Abu?!? Do you want more evidence of my claims that games are faster than you think (apart from the slow play in the back), counter attacks happen all the time, and that defensive lines and units are exactly like PES and don't leave their defenders one on one??!??!
Do you really want MORE evidence!?!
Do you really want MORE evidence!?!
I can only judge it if I had a pc but know i have a ps3 on -1 speed but from what i am seeing it can't be a sim and the same for FIFA eventhough their defending isn't scripted and doesn't lack freedom.
I wonder if there are any links where you can download PES 2012 for free so I can test it for myself
I wonder if there are any links where you can download PES 2012 for free so I can test it for myself