Yeap ML is a mess. I'm losing 60M on my 1st season, 80M on 2nd season, and it keep increasing. I didn't buy players at all. Finally I used maximum fund option and start over in ML..
Patch 1.0.2 first impressions thread!
- Thread starter trueblade
- Start date
Yeap ML is a mess. I'm losing 60M on my 1st season, 80M on 2nd season, and it keep increasing. I didn't buy players at all. Finally I used maximum fund option and start over in ML..
iamcanadianeh
Registered User
Have you actually completed any seasons, or is this just a virtual concern?
I had the same concerns, but they turned out to only be an illusion due to misinformation in the finances screen. The problem seems to be that it doesn't really include your earnings for matches and for any winnings you will get for your league or cup position. Or, at least that info isn't regularly updated, i.e. not "live."
Anyway, my point is don't rely too heavily on the finances screen, you will probably earn more than that, especially if you place high in the league/cups.
Also, the argument that you have to sell players to afford to bring others in doesn't sound right to me. Shouldn't you have to do that if you aren't making big bucks from winning competitions?
Tech_Skill
Registered User
Aint got time for this crap right now....
Read this.
And this is probably BEFORE the patch, apparently now players cost even more money, If he had signed 1 decent player, he would have been even further in debt.
StringerBell
Registered User
Any changes to rosters? Is Kezman still on PSG? Narazaki (GK) on Japan?
I guess the only way around this is to simulate a big buyer coming in and beefing upo your club's stocks, i.e. with a ML trainer cheat/hack or increasing the starting money.
Although I hope there is someone out there who can make a custom patch to fix this. A guy who goes by the alias "Komu" has been making excellent gameplay patches by actually modifying the exe!! He fixed the form issue with the BAL (I've never played it, but apparently if you play BAL, your player is stuck in purple down arrow for ages. Komu fixed this). Surely he can fix this?
Although I hope there is someone out there who can make a custom patch to fix this. A guy who goes by the alias "Komu" has been making excellent gameplay patches by actually modifying the exe!! He fixed the form issue with the BAL (I've never played it, but apparently if you play BAL, your player is stuck in purple down arrow for ages. Komu fixed this). Surely he can fix this?
how then cause im trying in the extra content section and it doesn't show it keeps saying no new updates available
StringerBell
Registered User
anything on rosters?
DivineSaint
Registered User
new patch is very very very very bad. shoting is worsened and so does goalkeepers reactions, lots of silly goals by both sides. player change is still a problem I got semi assited i am running the closer guy to the ball but it automatically changes to other guy. pes 2011 was a bad game and now its turning into ridiculous
iamcanadianeh
Registered User
Too busy writing long letters to Konami?
Listen, I'm not trying to be an ass, but somebody needs to share another opinion on this. And it's not just mine... There have been other threads where people complain about the finances in ML being too easy, starting with too much money, etc, so I can hardly say this is an emergency issue that needs patching ASAP.
Anyway, I can only speak for my own experiences, which like others has been that financially ML is too easy. In my first season, on top player, I started with the defaults and used Wolves. Right away I sold a lot of players I didn't like (got squat for them) and brought in ten new players. About half of these players were youth players, but others were free agents and a few were legitimate signings from other clubs, including Uche, who I bought for about 700,000 -- a 77 overall rated stirker. He didn't do much for me all season actually, but I ended up with I think 15-20 Million in the bank after the first season. This was after paying player salaries and investing heavily in new scouts, coaches, etc.
I might be missing something, but to me it just seemed too easy, mostly because the game itself was too easy and I was able to finish second in the prem-league (should have been first but that's a long story).
Sorry to waste your time, but what am I missing? Are you saying after three seasons I'm guaranteed to be bankrupt? If so, maybe you're right, but be careful what you say... I'll put you to the test
StringerBell
Registered User
AHHHH someone please answer my question any changes to the rosters ie the examples I gave are those players still there?
I can't say I have seen any issues with the finances and have heard quite the opposite! I can't think for the life of me why anyone wants to start with world class players somewhere like real Madrid!
Maybe I am just getting old but bring back the days where you had no option but default players and 5000 pes points to scrap your way out of division two!
The master league was never about starting with a world class team!that's exactly why people loved pes over FIFA!
Maybe I am just getting old but bring back the days where you had no option but default players and 5000 pes points to scrap your way out of division two!
The master league was never about starting with a world class team!that's exactly why people loved pes over FIFA!
Totally agree with that. Love starting with the default players and building up a team, but as an extra "Treat" I never edited the look of the team I choose so I start with 5000 fans and a very small budget.
It's funny hearing these people bringing 4 or 5 players in at the start of their 1st season where I could only bring in Youth Team players as I didn't have the funds for better, never mind a good Scout to bring in players.
3 seasons and have a fan base of 19000 now and a few quid in the bank. 1 day I'll be european champions but not this year nor probably the next.
ericthered10
Registered User
I'm not bothered a bit. when i am starting out with werder bremen for my master league today i am pretty sure i will have the nous necessary to find a way to sustain the club for a few seasons. there is absolutely no reason to start as real madrid in master league. completely defeats the purpose and challenge of playing, and who in the world could actually stand to be a team like real? its the real's and man city's that are ruining the sport. count me out.
Complete respect to you mate - exactly how it's meant to be played!
Regarding the issue with people claiming clubs won't be sustainable now: you're just panicking, people. First of all I agree with iamcanadianeh when he says that the expected earnings section doesn't tell you everything. The expected earnings section tells you what money you would bring in to the club if you were to play all your scheduled games at that moment reading the report (league games, group stage games etc.) and your sponsorships and merchandise sales. But it doesn't take into account any home win bonuses, sponsorship target bonuses, advancing through tournaments and special bonuses for reaching late stages of certain competitions because those things aren't 100% certain. So your expected earnings report is based on you losing every single game until the end of the season, i.e. the absolute minimum you are expected to make by the end of the season.
Now this game doesn't emulate the TV rights packages of real life so Real Madrid and Barca won't be making shitloads of money compared to the rest of their league for the simple fact that they're Madrid or Barca. In real life, Madrid and Barca aside, in general if a team wants to be sustainable while buying expensive top quality players then they will have to challenge for/win silverware and keep overall player sales in the plus figures; otherwise how are you going to get back all the money you threw away on your players? And as a team gains more success so too does their finances because more and better sponsors will want to throw their money at them, and vice-versa if you're unsuccessful. I think this game emulates this pretty well for the most part. It doesn't have Spanish bank/government bailouts as options nor should it have; there has to be a line drawn between simulation and realism.
Having said that, let's look at Tech Skills' example on Real Madrid. By the example he gave Madrid would stand to be in negative figures by their third season if they were to lose all their games for 2 seasons straight. Now come on, if you're Real Madrid you've got the squad to sweep the trophies during your season and as I covered earlier if you want to be sustainable as a business in PES 2011 then you have to win trophies to pay all those players capable of winning them for you, otherwise what are they there for? And let's say somehow you end the season with Madrid without winning a single trophy, then you're in big shit my friend as you should be in real life because you've got to either pull some millions out of your ass somehow to save your club financially or you're going to have to sell some players or release some to bring down the cost of salaries. If you don't want to sell your players then sacrifices will have to be made somewhere so you might have to make do with shite doctors and physios for a while.
What this patch does is pretty simple: before you could go through a season and win the league and cup double and expect to have a good 50 million sitting there doing nothing after you've paid everyone off, however what it does now is it forces you to spend that money wisely and really get bang for your buck rather than being able to buy Ronaldo, Ribery, Kaka and Pato all for less than £60 million combined. The day that happens in real life I will eat my hat (after buying one).
Now this game doesn't emulate the TV rights packages of real life so Real Madrid and Barca won't be making shitloads of money compared to the rest of their league for the simple fact that they're Madrid or Barca. In real life, Madrid and Barca aside, in general if a team wants to be sustainable while buying expensive top quality players then they will have to challenge for/win silverware and keep overall player sales in the plus figures; otherwise how are you going to get back all the money you threw away on your players? And as a team gains more success so too does their finances because more and better sponsors will want to throw their money at them, and vice-versa if you're unsuccessful. I think this game emulates this pretty well for the most part. It doesn't have Spanish bank/government bailouts as options nor should it have; there has to be a line drawn between simulation and realism.
Having said that, let's look at Tech Skills' example on Real Madrid. By the example he gave Madrid would stand to be in negative figures by their third season if they were to lose all their games for 2 seasons straight. Now come on, if you're Real Madrid you've got the squad to sweep the trophies during your season and as I covered earlier if you want to be sustainable as a business in PES 2011 then you have to win trophies to pay all those players capable of winning them for you, otherwise what are they there for? And let's say somehow you end the season with Madrid without winning a single trophy, then you're in big shit my friend as you should be in real life because you've got to either pull some millions out of your ass somehow to save your club financially or you're going to have to sell some players or release some to bring down the cost of salaries. If you don't want to sell your players then sacrifices will have to be made somewhere so you might have to make do with shite doctors and physios for a while.
What this patch does is pretty simple: before you could go through a season and win the league and cup double and expect to have a good 50 million sitting there doing nothing after you've paid everyone off, however what it does now is it forces you to spend that money wisely and really get bang for your buck rather than being able to buy Ronaldo, Ribery, Kaka and Pato all for less than £60 million combined. The day that happens in real life I will eat my hat (after buying one).
Unfortunately, bonuses for winning games aren't a lot (even if you count the bonuses you get for winning at home, getting into the last 16 in the Champions League, or winning the League cup, or merchandise sales). They probably amount to less than £25-30 million in total.
Sponsorship deals, I've found, is somehow capped to £30-33 million, even when you are on an annual winning streak. This doesn't make sense at all: Wouldn't more and more companies want to sponsor your team for an increasing amount of money if your team has won a treble every year for the last 3 years?
So match bonuses, plus sponsorship deals amount to something around £60 million, and that's already a rather generous calculation. Now, let's look at expenditures: Fan clubs, coaches, doctors, scouts, plus team salary. When you are playing as a top team, you'll probably go in the red already, because you probably end up shelling out £100 million annually without buying additional players. Compare your maximum annual earnings of around £60 million, assuming you've won everything. You'd lose £40 million annually.
This, I think, is down the issue of managing style. You happen to be the sort of manager who looks for opportunistic signings, investing on young players, watch them mature, and when their valuation is perfect, sell them off to make a huge profit and use that sum to invest more. No problem, that's how most real-life managers play it at small-medium sized clubs. I'd play like that too if I started with a small team.
The problem is, not everyone plays like that. Some people like to build their fantasy team with their favourite club, which happens to be a big team. And building a fantasy club does not involve selling your highest paid player to ease off the deficit in your budget. It involves patiently signing the players you want, selling the surplus players you don't need, and train them up. My current ML team, Real Madrid, is in it's 5th year. The team only has 19 players: the starting 11, 7 subs, and 1 reserve. The wages earned by my 7 subs and 1 reserves amount to around £10 million. No problem, as they are all youngsters or "resurrected" players. However, my starting 11, filled with stars like C. Ronaldo, Kaka, Casillas (May I stress that these players started off in Real Madrid, so no, I didn't buy them) earns a wage of £100 million. That is, on average, £9.1 million per player. Not too bad for a team filled with stars right? Here's the problem though, because Konami doesn't give me enough budget even if I won everything, I'd lose money every year. This year, my 5th year, is the first time where the comp has forced down my fan club to downgrade a level to prevent me from going in the red.
I am sorry, but last time I checked, the player decides how this game is supposed to be played. And when there are people, like me, who would like to build a fantasy team (and you used to be able to do that with older versions), and Konami doesn't give you enough budget to sustain this management style, it's a problem (currently, the default budget level given to you at the 1st year is not even enough if you start off with a good team).
tl;dr:
So, long rant aside, here's my solution: The budget level should reflect on the team you are using. The problem does not reside on match bonuses, because they honestly amount to very little (£20,000 to £25,000 per sponsor per home match, and maybe another £35,000 per home win streak). The problem resides in how much money sponsors give you at the beginning of every year.
EDIT:
I think someone already mentioned this, but adding an "owner budget" will be useful here. So, for your income, you get:
1. Match bonuses (same level as right now)
2. Prizes for winning cups/domestic leagues/championship league (same level as right now)
3. Company sponsorship (this should most definitely reflect on how good the team is)
4. Owner's budget (this is probably radically variable, as owners don't usually do massive annual fundings. I think this budget is more like a "bale-out", and is extremely dependent on which club team you chose).
Also, adding a TV sponsorship is good idea too.
I think some people need to realise that teams such as Barca and Real Madrid are operating in real life outside their means. Both teams have huge debts. Maybe Konami are trying to reflect that this type of spending is unmanageable in the long run. Heh.
Now that the EPL is going to enforce a limit to how much debt teams are allowed to carry, we are going to see huge changes in the way teams are run. If this were enforced in Spain, it would mean the end of both Barca and Real. That is not even counting how unbalanced the TV revenue sharing is towards them. Quite simply put, this is actually a pretty accurate picture as far as I can tell. Valencia certainly didn't want to sell Villa and Silva, they had too. It barely made a dent in their debt, too.
Now that the EPL is going to enforce a limit to how much debt teams are allowed to carry, we are going to see huge changes in the way teams are run. If this were enforced in Spain, it would mean the end of both Barca and Real. That is not even counting how unbalanced the TV revenue sharing is towards them. Quite simply put, this is actually a pretty accurate picture as far as I can tell. Valencia certainly didn't want to sell Villa and Silva, they had too. It barely made a dent in their debt, too.
Gato
Cat O' War!!
You're the only person who got it here in the US, can I ask how you got it? Or are you just playing with us?