PES11: no on-the-fly strategies, a superficial game.

[muzza798]

Sminkey I agree with you. Konami need to rip up the play book with pes or atleast give full control of it to greyhound. We need radical change. I want to see them change the game in ways I didn't even know were possible. I think we all have that vision of what pes should look like in our minds. I see quality graphics with varied player models, stadia that intimidate me, a whole different motion system that is different and innovative.

If I don't see massive changes next year I will almost give up. I just can't take these running annimations and player models any more. These 2 things if overhauled will open the proverbial door to all our hopes and dreams. I'll play 2011 and enjoy it but I am far from happy. We were promised an overhauled game and we got it in the demo but for. Some reason it turned out to be 2010 with 360 movement and slight freedom in passing.

A new game engine is needed. I don't care whether its a new engine or they go back to pes 6 xbox 360 cos the clunkyness hasn't gone away. I think they should atleast apply 4,000 new annimations.

 

[Sminky]

Sminkey I agree with you. Konami need to rip up the play book with pes or atleast give full control of it to greyhound. We need radical change. I want to see them change the game in ways I didn't even know were possible. I think we all have that vision of what pes should look like in our minds. I see quality graphics with varied player models, stadia that intimidate me, a whole different motion system that is different and innovative.

If I don't see massive changes next year I will almost give up. I just can't take these running annimations and player models any more. These 2 things if overhauled will open the proverbial door to all our hopes and dreams. I'll play 2011 and enjoy it but I am far from happy. We were promised an overhauled game and we got it in the demo but for. Some reason it turned out to be 2010 with 360 movement and slight freedom in passing.

Totally agree with you bud, for PES to rival FIFA it needs to find a new angle and it will take more than overhauling the AI and game engine. Football is a cultural game and this surely would be a good place to start.

I think when the PS4 hits the streets within the next - I've no idea so I won't guess - years it'll be then we really see graphic enhancing play on PES, that said you compare PES2008 to PES2011 and player faces really have come a long way.

 

[Amateur]

My issue with strategies is that it has been expanded to the point of conflicting with itself. Strategies should be refined to one section or that the manual system should augment the main strategy system without radically effecting it. I use the manual system and the selected strategy works against my teams overall strategy to the point of conceding silly and needless goals.

I appreciate this may not be the case for everyone but I find it outdated and superfluous with the new main strategy system. I assume the new system will eventually supercede the old strategy in some form and - if it does - I would like to see the choice of mapping this to the controller as decided by the individual gamer.

Fully agree,

If we have the choice of mapping it back to the L2 button, then I would have nothing to complain about.

At least give the user the choice of deciding; for one thing, I cannot see myself tapping the SELECT button every 5 seconds... too intricate, not intuitive enough.

I do not really use the L2 STRATEGIES to dictate strategies, I use it more to dictate HORIZONTAL OFF-THE-BALL RUNS from ONE individual on the team, basically, dictating my own script on-the-fly, dictating different scenarios and different passing angles: in PES10 it worked to perfection, by using the Custom Settings A and Custom Settings B.

Cannot see it working when it is attached to the SELECT button, which is a shame, and I consider it a downgrade.

Had it been up to me, I would have attached on-the-fly strategies to the right analogue stick + L2 button, four strategies in each of the four directions: north, west, south, east. Which would have created room for a total of 16 on-the-fly tactical adjustments.

Each direction, north, west, south, east; attached to different positions or roles, one for strikers and second strikers, the other for defensive midfielders and center midfielders and side midfielders, the other for attacking midfielders, and the other for center backs and wide backs.

Giving you total control over your team, without ever needing to pause the game.

In addition, I would have introduced a couple of new tactical features, for instance, tapping the L1 button after passing the ball: dictates HORIZONTAL RUNS from the individual who just passed the ball, as opposed to the old R2 VERTICAL RUN.

A lot can be done in terms of on-the-fly tactics or strategies. The buttons are there, it's just a matter of employing them correctly, and making sure you don't break the game.

I just think Konami did not really put a lot of work on the strategies system used in PES11, it is a downgrade as far as I'm concerned.

Though, hopefully, PES11 is the stepping stone towards something new; and PES12 will be where we will see real improvements to other areas of the game.

I'm just saying, the strategies system used in PES11 is boring, a downgrade as far as I'm concerned. The thing that worries me the most, is that Konami apparently did not appreciated the range of things which could be done with the L2 STRATEGIES.

 

[JSRossi]

Totally agree with you bud, for PES to rival FIFA it needs to find a new angle and it will take more than overhauling the AI and game engine. Football is a cultural game and this surely would be a good place to start.

I think when the PS4 hits the streets within the next - I've no idea so I won't guess - years it'll be then we really see graphic enhancing play on PES, that said you compare PES2008 to PES2011 and player faces really have come a long way.

Is it just me that loves everything about this game ? The look, the feel, the play? ... No problem with those who have issues ( it would be a sad day if anyone creates the perfect football game because that would end the debate) but surely time is better spent doing anything other than creating Tolstoyesque length prose on what is bad about it .....

:brickwall:

 

[Amateur]

Is it just me that loves everything about this game ? The look, the feel, the play? ... No problem with those who have issues ( it would be a sad day if anyone creates the perfect football game because that would end the debate) but surely time is better spent doing anything other than creating Tolstoyesque length prose on what is bad about it .....

:brickwall:

Not really, because that would make the debate a fan boys vs skeptic warfare, and fan boys vs skeptics warfare.... never actually achieves anything useful or with an actual purpose.

Because the majority of skeptics criticize a flaw, but they do not want to know nor understand anything about WHY the bloody flaw actually exists in the first place: they just want to moan.

And fan boys, fan boys play the game, they do not really test the game... which makes their criticism subjective as well as redundant, because they have no idea about how the game should improve.

The lack of Tolstoyesque length prose.... is the reason for why the list at the end of the year, our feedback, is full of redundant and subjective and contradictory suggestions.

In my opinion, the worst thing you can do with your time, is criticize a flaw without actually understanding nor trying to understand WHY the flaw actually exists. A waste of time, disinformation, it never contributes to anything good.

:brickwall:

Fan boys: "I love PES11.... just needs to be that bit more fluid"

Skeptics: "I hate PES11.... Konami should just release a next gen PES5 rendition"

Neutrals: "both games are shit"

 

[Sminky]

Is it just me that loves everything about this game ? The look, the feel, the play? ... No problem with those who have issues ( it would be a sad day if anyone creates the perfect football game because that would end the debate) but surely time is better spent doing anything other than creating Tolstoyesque length prose on what is bad about it .....

:brickwall:

Before I begin I must doth my cap to you as it is good to see scholars on PESgaming - "Tolstoyesque length prose" is my statement of the day by a million miles

I have no issue with you enjoying PES but for me, I don't enjoy it ... as much as I know I could ... had Konami not jettisoned what worked in the past.

I probably have unreasonable expectations and its a fruitless pursuit of perfection but PES is my rubicon. I just need it to be always a little better. Don't get me wrong I loved PES5 and thought PES2008 was fun too but PES2009 onwards its been a shower of sh!t ...

Its my commitment to the series and the (endless) hours on ML that has lead to my writing an epitaph for PES ... Likewise if PES2012 is a total triumph I will squander even more hours recording my ML results and experiences on this very site ... I really don't have anything much better to do to be honest anyway!

 

[Gato]

No need for 2 threads about the exact same topic. Threads merged.

 

[Valmighty]

select is not accessible that quick, i can't make my player run backward and press select + R2

L2 + R2 or L2 + O/\[]X is much better

 

[Valmighty]

and it's ridiculous to have: super offensive, offensive, no preference, defensive, super defensive.

why? because it's stuck there. there's no difference with having manual attitude and set it manually once when kick off then never set it again for 90 mins.

 

[klashman]

Its curious that so many people are happy with this game, I find it strange that stealing pace from players,

learn!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKmh8svKq_I

making penalties impossible,

Learn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIqVZyo06Ys

over-loading the game with strategy that over-rules the primary strategy

learn!
http://www.justpes.com/
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=60966

and adding clunky AI to match clunky controls is being so well received.

and again, learn!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rBpmt5pRsk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKmh8svKq_I

 

[klashman]

Dude, I am a pretty skillful gamer.... and by no means do I find the SELECT button an "accessible" option.

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao: Your skillful but you can't get used to the tactics being initiated using the select button. No, infact what you are is an joke and your posts are laughable! Your a joke, I'm sorry!

 

[Amateur]

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao: Your skillful but you can't get used to the tactics being initiated using the select button. No, infact what you are is an joke and your posts are laughable! Your a joke, I'm sorry!

Don't be sorry for me, be sorry for yourself.

You have mentioned the word joke and laughable so many times in such a short sentence, that perhaps you hear both words on a consistent basis?

Do you honestly think, that I give a fuck about what you think; I take it as a complement that a moron such as yourself thinks that I am a joke and that I am laughable, it means that I am not writing moronic things that are appealing to morons.

Strategies on SELECT are not accessible, I easily adapted to them, but then I found out that the ON-THE-FLY STRATEGIES are useless for what I used them; the video game is now completely COM dictated.

Strategies on SELECT was a stupid decision, the fact that the game is now fully dictated by the COM was an even greater mistake; I cannot enjoy it.... I find it too easy, automatic, scripted, dumb, superficial, predictable, and insubstantial.

The fact that I know things that you have no idea about, proves that I am a skillful gamer; but then again, PES and FIFA do not require any real level of skills, casual and dumb video games for the masses.

The fact that you mentioned the word "skill" in a PES forum, shows how little idea you have regarding video games; PES and FIFA are made for consumers like yourself, to deceive you, into thinking that such a lousy game actually requires skills or experience.

I cannot play it in year 2010, I played PES3, PES5, PES6, PES10, but I simply cannot enjoy it anymore; it is not good enough, it is not up to date, it does not delivers to my high expectations and standards: I feel insulted when I play the game, not entertained.

Before calling people names, you should know that the joke is on you, you should be sorry for your behavior, you are making an ass of yourself on a consistent basis: you should learn how to distinguish facts from opinions, and in the case you do not agree with something you consider an opinion, you should agree to disagree, instead of launching childish personal insults which do not actually affect me in the slightest.

Other than that, you should go fuck yourself, might do wonders for you.

 

[historymaker]

come on guys lets just patch and kiss up. Ain't worth all the effort for this argument. In the end, its the imperfections of the game that make the game perfect.

And btw, who seriously gives a shit about a damn select or l2 button. If you cant use it then dont use it.

 

[Amateur]

come on guys lets just patch and kiss up. Ain't worth all the effort for this argument. In the end, its the imperfections of the game that make the game perfect.

And btw, who seriously gives a shit about a damn select or l2 button. If you cant use it then dont use it.

People who don't know shit about Football and do not care about a quality experience, people whom are just looking for a quick and easy fix that does not requires any build-up play nor any thinking; that's you, people who do not give a shit about strategies nor about substance.

And who gives a shit about a damn Select or L2 button? The person who actually bothered writting about it, me; and also, the people who actually bother utilizing their brains when they play PES.

Actually, who in his right mind would give a fuck about someone who has nothing to say about anything?

In the end, its the imperfections of the game that make the game perfect.... Really? PES11 is perfect? A Football Simulation without build up play is perfect? Or is it imperfect because it is utterly outdated?

That is a lie I'd expect to hear from Konami, not from a consumer: do you happen to work for Konami by any chance?

PES 2011 tactic good points.

1. They changed the way tactics are viewed.
2. You can swap players just by moving 1 player to the other.
3. You can add comments to tactic save files
4. You can change the way your team plays based on score and time

PES 2011 tactic bad points.

1. You can no longer edit individual tactics for each player such as being more defensive or pushing forward.
2. The ability to turn on and off cards has been removed.
3. Only 1 tactic in memory, this is not a shock as PES 2009 had 9 tactics, PES 2010 had 6 tactics and know PES 2011 has 1. Konami must live in reverse world as they seem to think PC's are using less and less memory.
4. You cannot copy and paste between tactics A and B like PES 2009 and 2010.
5. You can no longer view your players stats on the opposite side of the screen.

Two step forwards in one area of the game.... two step backwards in another area of the game: cheap tricks and thrills, no substance where it matters the most.

I payed for the game, and I do give a shit about this because strategies are an essential aspect of Football; and clearly, PES is now heading in a superficial and pretty direction where everything is spoon-feed and pre-determined for the USER.

 

[Woodstaman]

Yeah I think the movement of the L2 button as a bad Idea, and I do tend to never change tactics until I either have defensive possesion or the ball is out of play. I have actually conceded a goal while changing the tactics button whilst maintaining defensive possesion. L2, ftw.

 

[klashman]

Don't be sorry for me, be sorry for yourself.

You have mentioned the word joke and laughable so many times in such a short sentence, that perhaps you hear both words on a consistent basis?

Do you honestly think, that I give a fuck about what you think; I take it as a complement that a moron such as yourself thinks that I am a joke and that I am laughable, it means that I am not writing moronic things that are appealing to morons.

:laugh: Living in your own word of frustration still i see.

Strategies on SELECT are not accessible, I easily adapted to them, but then I found out that the ON-THE-FLY STRATEGIES are useless for what I used them; the video game is now completely COM dictated.

Strategies on SELECT was a stupid decision, the fact that the game is now fully dictated by the COM was an even greater mistake; I cannot enjoy it.... I find it too easy, automatic, scripted, dumb, superficial, predictable, and insubstantial.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Now why i continue rightfully to brand you a joke, wwhich is what you very much are is because of your post here:
aswell as your bizarre and highly ridiculous posts in this thread.

If you cut through all the crap you have written, the point yur making is, your basically just spamming through balls with Xavi. Thats it! :laugh: I mean you haven't even considered thta

Your playing with BARCELONA, DUH it's SUPPOSED TO BE EASY WITH BARCA! Hell i've been a Arsenal fan since 1996 and i very rarely use them in games. I always stick to using midrange to average teams, so much more challenging and fun.

I only use Barca when i feel like destroying a team 4,5-0. hell I'm sure this game would be a breeze considering a beat real and Barca in ML using Atletico. Not to mention their tactics being completely set out wrong, (You still don't get the tactics lol)

Even single football game i follow this. Playing with teams like Bordeaux, Fulham, Villarreal, Atletic Bilbao, PSV, Rennes, Dynamo Kiev, Shaktahr, i love teams like that, what akes PES 2011 such a unbelivebrle game is how every player ha their own feel, their own strengths and weaknesses.

Didi you know whenn you urn on the ball the game actively simulates what foot he uses to turn depending on what his his stronger/weaker foot is, his technique, posture, body position, momentum and other factors, (fatigue etc...) and with every single player it's practically unquie.

Messi, Crisitano, Villa, Robben, Ribery, D'Alessandro, Nani, arshavin etc.. even top dribbler i've used or even mid range dribblers all have their own style and their own strengths

The fact that I know things that you have no idea about,

Yes, i have no idea what goes on in your strange deluded world, i don't think anyone understands you becasue we all do have a life,

we don't expect football games to be some sort of hype perfect simulation, but a solid accurate and deep sim like PES 2011 is.

proves that I am a skillful gamer;

Yet you wrote a bizaarre long rant about the difficaultes in using select as a tactics modifier :laugh:

but then again, PES and FIFA do not require any real level of skills, casual and dumb video games for the masses.

Says you who imo had clearly huge trouble adapting to the game so you decide to spit your dummy out and spam through balls with Xavi, talking a whole load of bizarrae nonsense

The fact that you mentioned the word "skill" in a PES forum, shows how little idea you have regarding video games; PES and FIFA are made for consumers like yourself, to deceive you, into thinking that such a lousy game actually requires skills or experience.

Again, just spouting irrelevant nonsense i see again!

I cannot play it in year 2010, I played PES3, PES5, PES6, PES10, but I simply cannot enjoy it anymore; it is not good enough, it is not up to date, it does not delivers to my high expectations and standards: I feel insulted when I play the game, not entertained.

Get out of the house, meet some girls, i mean nice respectful girls since anyone can pay for a hooker, go clubbing, try meet so real good people who can be your friends so you can go out and enjoy yourself. Maybe join a football team, take up a hobby, go to the gym maybe?

PES 2011 has errors, every single game ever released has errors, not many if any video games give a full 100 accurate simulation, do i lose sleep over it, NO i enjoy them for what they are.

Before calling people names, you should know that the joke is on you, you should be sorry for your behavior, you are making an ass of yourself on a consistent basis: you should learn how to distinguish facts from opinions, and in the case you do not agree with something you consider an opinion, you should agree to disagree, instead of launching childish personal insults which do not actually affect me in the slightest.

Other than that, you should go fuck yourself, might do wonders for you.

Why should i have to in your view 'respect you opinion' when i look at where your coming from, the context of what your saying and i find it highly bizarrae and ridiculous, you constanlty rumble on with a huge lack of understanding for the game as a whole!

all i've seen you do is moan about strategy is too automatic, thats it, no talk in depth about shooting, dribbling, tackling system (which needs a big debate

and most importantly i've heard nothing on the individuality. mainly because it seems you only play with Barca, or many madrid or another big team!

 

[Amateur]

:laugh: Living in your own word of frustration still i see.




:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Now why i continue rightfully to brand you a joke, wwhich is what you very much are is because of your post here:
aswell as your bizarre and highly ridiculous posts in this thread.

If you cut through all the crap you have written, the point yur making is, your basically just spamming through balls with Xavi. Thats it! :laugh: I mean you haven't even considered thta

Your playing with BARCELONA, DUH it's SUPPOSED TO BE EASY WITH BARCA! Hell i've been a Arsenal fan since 1996 and i very rarely use them in games. I always stick to using midrange to average teams, so much more challenging and fun.

I only use Barca when i feel like destroying a team 4,5-0. hell I'm sure this game would be a breeze considering a beat real and Barca in ML using Atletico. Not to mention their tactics being completely set out wrong, (You still don't get the tactics lol)

Even single football game i follow this. Playing with teams like Bordeaux, Fulham, Villarreal, Atletic Bilbao, PSV, Rennes, Dynamo Kiev, Shaktahr, i love teams like that, what akes PES 2011 such a unbelivebrle game is how every player ha their own feel, their own strengths and weaknesses.

Didi you know whenn you urn on the ball the game actively simulates what foot he uses to turn depending on what his his stronger/weaker foot is, his technique, posture, body position, momentum and other factors, (fatigue etc...) and with every single player it's practically unquie.

Messi, Crisitano, Villa, Robben, Ribery, D'Alessandro, Nani, arshavin etc.. even top dribbler i've used or even mid range dribblers all have their own style and their own strengths



Yes, i have no idea what goes on in your strange deluded world, i don't think anyone understands you becasue we all do have a life,

we don't expect football games to be some sort of hype perfect simulation, but a solid accurate and deep sim like PES 2011 is.



Yet you wrote a bizaarre long rant about the difficaultes in using select as a tactics modifier :laugh:



Says you who imo had clearly huge trouble adapting to the game so you decide to spit your dummy out and spam through balls with Xavi, talking a whole load of bizarrae nonsense



Again, just spouting irrelevant nonsense i see again!



Get out of the house, meet some girls, i mean nice respectful girls since anyone can pay for a hooker, go clubbing, try meet so real good people who can be your friends so you can go out and enjoy yourself. Maybe join a football team, take up a hobby, go to the gym maybe?

PES 2011 has errors, every single game ever released has errors, not many if any video games give a full 100 accurate simulation, do i lose sleep over it, NO i enjoy them for what they are.



Why should i have to in your view 'respect you opinion' when i look at where your coming from, the context of what your saying and i find it highly bizarrae and ridiculous, you constanlty rumble on with a huge lack of understanding for the game as a whole!

all i've seen you do is moan about strategy is too automatic, thats it, no talk in depth about shooting, dribbling, tackling system (which needs a big debate

and most importantly i've heard nothing on the individuality. mainly because it seems you only play with Barca, or many madrid or another big team!

Dude, why are you posting in this thread?

You do not have half the knowledge that I posses, what the fuck are you talking down on me for?

You do not even understand my argument, and here you are disrespecting me?

Hey -- you dumb fuck -- do you still not understand the fact that my argument has nothing to do with difficulty?

Messi or the most average player that ever lived -- the game is always the same bullshit: automatic and pre-determined.

You clearly do not understand why that is, which is why you are not to be taken seriously by someone who actually knows what he is talking about.

This is where you have a massive disadvantage: I understand your opinion, but you do not understand my argument nor my opinion.

That's a massive disadvantage, and you are embarrassing yourself every time you talk about Amateur, since you don't actually understand what Amateur is talking about.

And apparently, it really gets to you that Amateur understands something that you do not understand; doesn't it?

Otherwise, how do you explain all the time that you have invested talking about Amateur or responding to Amateur?

Do you see Amateur wasting his time on the "I love PES11" thread? Do you know why I do not spend a single second of my time on such a thread?

Because I do not agree with your opinion, and I will not waste my time saying that you are wrong and I am right, just because I do not agree with your opinion.

There is a common fact, and opinions regarding that fact will vary a great deal; you do not understand my opinion and you do not understand my argument.

Why do you waste your time insulting someone who's argument you do not understand?

Last but not least: I do not care about what you have to say, you have no knowledge, your arguments are not really arguments since you never pose any facts.

All your comments are off-topic, and should have been removed from this thread as it has nothing to do with the actual subject.

Use your braincells the next time you do not understand someone, try to communicate before insulting; you will gain something if you try, if not, it is your loss.

 

[allieballie]

Yeah, because SELECT is a very accessible button.... hell, now I have to twist my left thumb and will be forced to release the left analogue stick; bad employment of buttons.

But, at least it is possible. I was under the impression that you needed to pause the game.

Although, to be honest, is releasing the left analogue stick not the same thing as PAUSING the game?

amateur you are a waste of life,please die

 

[Papa]

Calm down and grow up.

 

[profit89]

Pes5/6 still the best imo. Easily better than 2011.