personally having read the posts i am struggling to work out what your both saying or how either what you have said would work on pes
i know what has been wrote has some good stuff in there ,i am just failing to create the same picture in my mind i do appologise
so forgive me if anything i do say here seems like a repeat ,or covers anything you have said
for me pes09 in terms of gameplay is a step backwards ,and also the game is heading in the direction of single mindedness which is completley wrong ,football always has been a team game ,the game has been made too easy by dribbling with instant control ,the running system needs more depth ,a greater time to increase and decrease acceleration ,also when running at top pace the player should have less control of the ball ,ie the distance between the ball and player should be greater almost like it is when you tap R1 but not quite as far ,this would cut down the player who just dribbles making it a real skill to learn just like in real life and force them to learn the passing side of the game so that players would become better all round players
further more the adding of players mental attributes would be an awsome feature giving greater depth and uniquness to the title ,if you think about it ,in the same way i beleive i think ameteour means about player runs
if you take creativity for example in my previous post taking manchester united i`ll try to explain in depth
for eg if you played 4-4-2 and played ,giggs on the left ,berbatov and rooney out and out strikers and ronaldo on the right ,all 4 you would say are intelligent and creative players so would score highly in this department
this going foreward would naturally create more width ,as the wide players would stay wide as it would give preference to their stronger foot ,but if you swapped giggs and ronaldo around because their stronger foot has now come inside the players runs would also come inside the full backs rather than the traditional outside ,this would give lesser width but immidiately concentrate the attack on the centre
if you understand that concept ,then greater complexity could be added to the game with AI and players stronger foot ,for eg ronaldo for man utd can play LM WF SS , but cannot play CM but if you played him there ,he wouldnt operate centrally he would naturally drift to the right hand side similarly if you did this for giggs and played them together there ,the oppisistion would have a big space in between them to exploit
but if you did play like both ronaldo and giggs they would support side attacks better but there runs would be inside to out so if you still following me ,if you played rooney as CF on the left handside his stronger foot being right he would favour coming inside ,so if you take into account these 3 players runs and how there implemented ,ronaldos run would take a defender right ,rooneys run would take any defender inside leaving a space in behind for the attacking run of giggs
assuming you understood that lets take even greater complexity for eg manchester united and you played with 4 forewards wf cf cf wf and three CM
your central midfeild is giggs on the left ,scholes ,ronaldo ,scholes would play centrally because he is a CM now the attacking line up park left WF rooney berbatov ,evra right WF ,this would give tactically an attack going central but also a secondary attack of CM that will look to go wide as well as scholes making a late run into the box
now take the other end of the spectrum and stoke now there isnt many players here that are creative ,so players here would make less creative runs where they take players away ,but more on the obvious runs into the box,this would make stokes play more direct but no less effective
this would take the game to a new level of understanding ,tactics and teamplay
you would have to put the right players in the right holes to get a system which suits your style of play
this system would allow teams without top players to compete against a team with top players if its team understanding and interplay was more effective
aslo this would allow the creation of total football ,within an attack eg holland
sorry it took so long to write the post but you both have posted since i started writing this
Great Post!! Again touched on some very valid points. And that's exactly what this thread is about.
Having "less control when going at full speed" is a Real FACT, Konami needs to implement that into the game. In PES09 you can pull off some moves that are basically impossible, because they go against the law of physics.
But then again, we do have exceptions such as Leo Messi and George Best.. who can dribble effectively at full speed. But the point is to make it a more unique Ability, instead of some ordinary ability.
Another thing that I feel it's very important is the difference between players like Cristiano Ronaldo and players like Juan Roman Riquelme.
Cristiano is a player who mostly plays through the flanks -whereas- Riquelme is a central player.
And dribbling or holding the ball in the Flanks is completely different to dribbling through the Middle of the Pitch. It is much more difficult to dribble through the middle of the pitch, only a handful of players know how to do it on a consistent basis.
This is a major flaw of PES09. Any skillful player can easily dribble through the middle of the pitch or inside the penalty area. This is why I think it's necessary to have stats such as "Shielding Ability" and "Finishing". To define such basic differences.
We need to feel more differences between Kaka and Riquelme -and- between Luis Figo and Van Nistelrooy.
As for the tactics.. well the tactics do not work alone, we would need more in-depth Tactical Settings for each Team.
But the tactics would be necessary for dictating things that should not be dictated by the COM on its own.
Like for example, if you switch Cristiano Ronaldo from Right to Left -- The COM cannot decide that on its own, just like that.
Or if you want your Striker to drag a couple of defenders to the Right with him, just so he can create some space on the Left for you -- this cannot be dictated by the COM.
The Tactics would take care of those actions that cannot be dictated by a COM alone.
And although the actual off-the-ball movement of each Individual should be heavily assisted by the COM and the STATS. Fact remains that a COM should not be dictating everything for you.
For example, your playing as Man Utd, and your "manually" controlling Paul Scholes, and whilst controlling Scholes you Double Tap the (o) button. By doing so you would be dictating the tactical play that you assigned to the (o) button.
Fact of the matter is that it would give us something New to Master, it would add depth and substance into the game. Instead of just running mindlessly after the ball, or running mindlessly at goal.. we would be forced into THINKING about how to use and deal with our Team's Strengths.
It isn't rocket science.
Another thing that I would like to see, and something that I think is close to what you elaborated on. I was thinking something like "Player Tendencies" to give each player a more unique feeling:
- How Cristiano Ronaldo Tends to play through the flanks.
- How Thierry Henry tends to move through the Left Side of the pitch.
- How Leo Messi plays mostly through the Right.
- How Riquelme roams from central positions to wide positions, with no restrictions.
Something similar could add a whole new dimension of Team Chemistry into the game.
) Clear is, that only one person is not understanding and its you.. I would like to control one player by each time, use his posible invidual skills, have a nice and easy intuitive system for manager staff, and enjoy footy.. I don´t think, that more complicated control of all of that will be, better footy is.. You should come to game, look in to it, learn control of the player and enjoy.. That was the point of every PES, that is why we PES loved and hope that it will be.. That is all what I am saying, and will not understand if you wanna argue about that.. Lets finish this, throw it behind and talk about normal staff..