PES 2009 Sales - Not as high as previous years

[Amateur]

I'd like to keep this a debate as opposed to an argument so i'd like to keep the motto: This is just my humble opinion, but i disagree with the majority there

The stats always seem failry accurate to me. At least the basics. Speed, stamina, strength, shot power/curl/accuracy. In proevo alot of the players feel the same, in Fifa they all seem similar to their real-life counterparts

the tricks and the tricks stick are hugely fun and hugely effective....when you get used to them. Fifa isn't really a pick up and play game (unless you've played it for years and years) It take comitment. I use very few tricks, but when they come off it's very satisfying.

I would agree that the player faces could be better, but to say they are embarassing is slightly ober the top. That's one of the few complaints i would have about Fifa!

If they had the basics right, that wouldn't be a problem.. But fact is that the basics are not properly covered, considering that Ronaldinho makes a better defender than John Terry, and is just as touch in the midfield.

Speed, Acceleration, Dribbling Accuracy, Stamina, etc, etc, This cannot be labeled as "the basics" considering the basics of Football involve much more than that, Football isn't just about athleticism.

Are there any Stats for each players Defensive Positioning, Attacking runs, Midfield runs, etc, etc..

As for the Dribbling Tricks, I think they are hugely limiting. It shouldn't be about pulling off outrageous dribbling moves that wouldn't work in real life, it shouldn't be about mastering complicated controls.. It should be about timing simple controls right, simple and yet effective controls.

Simple controls so that you can actually Think about When and How to use them, rather than just mastering the right stick.

 

[LarssonIsGhod]

Realistic tricks that stay realistic.

Such as........

 

[Dale C.]

Football isn't about athleticism.

:erm:

Are there any Stats for each players Defensive Positioning, Attacking runs, Midfield runs, etc, etc...

Yeah there are stats for those....

Agression and teamwork control the frequency of the runs that the players make

 

[iamcanadianeh]

In short, I will not be buying PES 2010. I may actually spend my hard earned cash on FIFA 2010 next go around. Why? Because Konami deserve to take a massive hit in the sales department so that they wake up and actually put some hard graft into the series, again. And the only way that is going to happen is if they suffer a loss of income from the franchise.

What if PES 2010 is miles beyond, and Fifa 2010 is a mess? Let's not jump to conclusions just yet...

BTW - BAL takes time, and loads of patience, but it eventually pays off. Eventually, the level of difficulty which some people find to be "bad AI" is what puts PES above Fifa in my books. Sure there are problems, but the majority of it is intentional and creates for a unique take on the game. It can only get better, and I'm willing to wait at least five more years for it to get there before I start getting frustrated. Why? Because every year what they put out has been imperfect, but it's always enough to keep me playing all year, even the last three versions. Plus, I'll play J-League on PS2 when it arrives. I'm not unhappy, so there's no worries (and I do own Fifa, but never play it).

Also, the sales may be mostly a reflection of the online problem - that's my guess anyway. That, and the massive Fifa hype in the community.

 

[Dale C.]

Yeah plus you cant forget the MASSIVE following fifa have got in the latin american population in the US, because of their leagues featuring in the game

 

[Baddar]

I think FIFA is lacking a lot of essential things. One of them the Stats, the players Stats don't seem to make any difference during gameplay.. judging on FIFA08, I could not notice any difference at all between a lot of players.

I have to say, that's another thing that has stood out in FIFA this year as an improvement. Taller players feel like they have a big advantage in the air, rather than it feeling like luck on previous editions.

It's also much harder to muscle players off the ball with players like Robben, but when you're going into them with Diarra, it feels better, and easier.

Another positive is the difference in playing against the big sides to the small ones. Playing against Man Utd, Chelsea, Barcelona etc., is on occasion, easier than playing against a team like Crewe. The small sides tend to have a "what we have we hold" policy to begin with, and can be tough to break down. I'm not saying the big sides aren't, but they don't seem as defensive minded. You'll notice how the small teams rely on playing the long ball up towards the strikers more too.

It's the little things that make this excellent.

And I know this has been evident in both Pro Evo and Fifa in the last couple of games, but the way the AI seems to go completely defensive minded in the last 10 minutes of games, especially when they're either away from home or a smaller level team. It can be frustrating seeing the opposition hold it in the corner, not even going for another goal, but it's so rewarding to see, making it look like they do have minds of their own, and they're willing to take what they have at that point.

 

[Amateur]

Such as........

The way I see it, I probably cannot explain it that well right now.. But the way I see it, every particular Dribbling Trick should have a Stat to determine how good each individual is with each respective trick.

I think we should have individual stats for; Step Overs, Shielding the ball, Cutting the ball, Flicking the ball, 360ª spin, etc, etc..

So that a player with great "Step Overs" can effectively perform tricks that involve such ability; scissors, double scissors, rivelino move, etc, etc..

Or a player who is better at simply "Cutting the ball" is better at cutting his way through the pitch.

For example you can say Cristiano Ronaldo is better than Leo Messi at doing Step Overs and other flashy tricks.. But Leo Messi is much better at simple tricks that involve Cutting the ball.

In the same way, a player like Juan Roman Riquelme should have a Stat that enables him to hold onto the ball better than most. Maybe a "Shielding" stat, so that he can keep hold of the ball Without having to sprint into open spaces.

It's all about comparing and identifying the abilities that make each player an Individual. Riquelme can do things Kaka cannot do, Kaka can do things Riquelme cannot, etc, etc..

It shouldn't simply be like "Kaka is better than Riquelme, period" because that's not realistic. In reality Kaka and Riquelme are different players with different abilities. Those Differences are Basic, and should be turned into Stats.

And please consider that "Shielding the ball" and "Balance" are different things. Didier Drogba has good Balance -but- players like Riquelme and Zidane have much better Shielding Technique.

With the current set of Stats we don't have any difference between players like Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo -or- Kaka and Riquelme. I think that's very limiting, we should have more stats so that the game can gain more depth.

 

[LarssonIsGhod]

Very well explained there mate...and i totally see where your coming from. That may be something that will be looked at for Fifa2010

I don't know whether or not you were aware, but they tricks are varied between each player. Not as in-depth as you detailed but there are difference.

The skillfull players ( Ronaldo and Co) can do alot more skills than the less skilled players. There are a good few tricks/flicks that only players of a certain skill can do

 

[Amateur]

:erm:



Yeah there are stats for those....

Agression and teamwork control the frequency of the runs that the players make

Aggression and teamwork?? I disagree, Agile players like Messi always make great defenders regardless of their "teamwork", that's just unrealistic.

And Aggression in what sense?? Is it Attacking aggressiveness or Defensive aggressiveness? An important difference between the two, don't you think?

I mean, Zidane was an aggressive Defender, but that didn't changed the fact that he was one mediocre defender.

I think having just 2 Stats to determine something that complex, I think that's limiting.

There's a difference in each position, you have Defensive Midfielders, you have poachers, center backs, wingers, playmakers, attacking midfielders, etc, etc.. How can Two Stats determine how a player moves through all those positions??

And yeah, Football isn't just about athleticism.

I think this is the main thing that Football Sims are lacking, in the Tactical Aspect of the game.

We should have more control over our players tactical movements, we should have in-game options for dictating tactical plays -instead- of just passing and tapping the R2 button, which does not offers any kind of replay value.

 

[Amateur]

Very well explained there mate...and i totally see where your coming from. That may be something that will be looked at for Fifa2010

I don't know whether or not you were aware, but they tricks are varied between each player. Not as in-depth as you detailed but there are difference.

The skillfull players ( Ronaldo and Co) can do alot more skills than the less skilled players. There are a good few tricks/flicks that only players of a certain skill can do

That's a start, I have also noticed some differences in how Cristiano Ronaldo runs and all that.. but they need to keep elaborating on that.

 

[LarssonIsGhod]

That's a start, I have also noticed some differences in how Cristiano Ronaldo runs and all that.. but they need to keep elaborating on that.

The main thing is that they are making a start, and slowly but surely making the game more and more in-depth each year!

 

[Amateur]

Another disappointing thing about FIFA is the way they treat the lesser-known players. I think Konami pays more attention in that respect.

 

[alonCFC]

Another disappointing thing about FIFA is the way they treat the lesser-known players. I think Konami pays more attention in that respect.

also PES- i think if konami worked a bit more and dont get lazy on the unknown players even if it costs a later realise of the game, it would be a lot better.

 

[sandaweches]

What if PES 2010 is miles beyond, and Fifa 2010 is a mess? Let's not jump to conclusions just yet...

BTW - BAL takes time, and loads of patience, but it eventually pays off. Eventually, the level of difficulty which some people find to be "bad AI" is what puts PES above Fifa in my books. Sure there are problems, but the majority of it is intentional and creates for a unique take on the game. It can only get better, and I'm willing to wait at least five more years for it to get there before I start getting frustrated. Why? Because every year what they put out has been imperfect, but it's always enough to keep me playing all year, even the last three versions. Plus, I'll play J-League on PS2 when it arrives. I'm not unhappy, so there's no worries (and I do own Fifa, but never play it).

Also, the sales may be mostly a reflection of the online problem - that's my guess anyway. That, and the massive Fifa hype in the community.

well said. I totally agree. At first with BAL it was frustrating, but with time and practice it's getting much better. Regarding the AI, I just don't understand what people expect. to able to win all games? to be able to dribble past all players? to have teammates make perfect passes, perfect runs and perfect assists? How many games (in real life) were lost because defenders were not doing their job or the goalie fumbling the ball or a selfish player dribbling all over the place? The more football games you watch the more you see that the AI is not that bad.

 

[Amateur]

well said. I totally agree. At first with BAL it was frustrating, but with time and practice it's getting much better. Regarding the AI, I just don't understand what people expect. to able to win all games? to be able to dribble past all players? to have teammates make perfect passes, perfect runs and perfect assists? How many games (in real life) were lost because defenders were not doing their job or the goalie fumbling the ball or a selfish player dribbling all over the place? The more football games you watch the more you see that the AI is not that bad.

Dude, some fans are disappointed because we expected an improved AI. And although PES09 is a huge improvement over PES08, it isn't an improvement on the PS2 versions.

Which is why so many fans are disappointed, we expected better. Plus hardcore fans don't seem to like the AI mistakes.

If there is a mistake, I'd like it to be mine. Not some "lucky" goal product of one unfortunate mistake that had nothing to do with me.

Why is it that the Com rarely scores a good goal, WHY do most of the Com goals come from corners, GK spills, or free kicks??

I just find it unrealistic that I win three games consecutively, by large margins, and then all of a sudden the Com decides I'm not going to win the next match because?? Who knows?

Fact is that I can repeat that same match and the Com will always score one lucky goal out of nothing, it just gets predictable and repetitive, too obvious. Even when I win that same match, it is a bit annoying to see how low the Com can go.

And after all, we are human, so even if we had complete control of our players.. Mistakes would happen time and time again, just like in real life.

So yeah, it is realistic to have mistakes every now and then.. But when we have no control over them, it's just unrealistic. It's just disappointing to know that the Com dictates everything, leaving us with little to do.

Positives?? At least PES09 is a game that can improve in every aspect.

So taking that into consideration, PES 2010 sounds promising. But that's about it, it sounds promising, it could be great, but at the end of the day Konami will just make some subtle tweaks yet again.

But we'll see, maybe this dip in sales will force Konami into taking action.

 

[alonCFC]

Dude, the thing that people don't like is that we really have no say in many of the AI mistakes.

If there is a mistake, I'd like like it to be mine. Not some "lucky" goal product of one unfortunate mistake that had nothing to do with me.

Why is it that the Com rarely scores a good goal, WHY do most of the Com goals come from corners, GK spills, or free kicks??

I just find it unrealistic that I win three games consecutively, by large margins, and then all of a sudden the Com decides I'm not going to win the next match because?? Who knows?

Fact is that I can repeat that same match and the Com will always score one lucky goal out of nothing, it just gets predictable and repetitive, too obvious. Even when I win that same match, it is a bit annoying to see how low the Com can go.

And after all, we are human, so even if we had complete control of our players.. Mistakes would happen time and time again. It's just disappointing to know that the Com dictates everything, leaving us with little to do.

that is very true. every time the COM gets a corner im saying "here it goes again"... that, and the fact that fouls are apparently nothing to the reff, takes away some of the fun in playing.

 

[Dale C.]

Aggression and teamwork?? I disagree, Agile players like Messi always make great defenders regardless of their "teamwork", that's just unrealistic.

And Aggression in what sense?? Is it Attacking aggressiveness or Defensive aggressiveness? An important difference between the two, don't you think?

I mean, Zidane was an aggressive Defender, but that didn't changed the fact that he was one mediocre defender.

I think having just 2 Stats to determine something that complex, I think that's limiting.

There's a difference in each position, you have Defensive Midfielders, you have poachers, center backs, wingers, playmakers, attacking midfielders, etc, etc.. How can Two Stats determine how a player moves through all those positions??

You're arguing with facts.

It is a fact that Agression controls how many runs a player makes, how often they get forward, its a plain and simple fact, and teamwork affects it because players with higher teamwork bounce off each other and make more runs, better one-two's etc.

They're plain and simple facts. Why are you saying agression has got anything to do with defending? It hasnt, and there is another fact...I just cant see your point man, you cant argue with facts man

 

[Amateur]

You're arguing with facts.

It is a fact that Agression controls how many runs a player makes, how often they get forward, its a plain and simple fact, and teamwork affects it because players with higher teamwork bounce off each other and make more runs, better one-two's etc.

They're plain and simple facts. Why are you saying agression has got anything to do with defending? It hasnt, and there is another fact...I just cant see your point man, you cant argue with facts man

So, Roy Keane did not Defended aggressively?? Pavel Nedved isn't aggressive in his defensive play?

I also cannot see your point?? You said that "Aggression" and "Teamwork" pretty much controls a player off-the-ball movement. And I simply said that a Football Sim deserves to have more than just 2 Stats to determine such an important thing.

I cannot argue with facts?? Maybe you should learn How to Read properly.

 

[Dale C.]

So, Roy Keane did not Defended aggressively??

I also cannot see your point?? You said that "Aggression" and "Teamwork" pretty much controls a player off-the-ball movement. And I simply said that a Football Sim deserves to have more than just 2 Stats to determine such an important thing.

I cannot argue with facts?? Maybe you should learn How to Read properly.

here come the petty insults

I dont care what the fuck roy keane did or didnt do, doesnt change the fact that, In Pro evolution, Agression has nothing to do with Defending.

And obviously agression and teamwork arent the only things that control it, but theyre the things that most effect off the ball movement, in the game of Pro Evolution.

 

[iamcanadianeh]

Amateur - now I'm starting to understand your beef (and others) when it comes to AI a bit more. The fact is though, it gets much worse. Have you played NHL 09? It's 20 times worse in that regard (com deciding for you when you will be lucky or not), and it won sports game of the year honours on IGN! Honestly, a big part of this beef comes down to the implementation of this new concept of BAL/BAP/Fantasista... And by that I mean that we now play with the Com more than we ever have before. Now that I think about it, maybe the gaming world (AI) wasn't really ready for this mode. Maybe that's why Konami didn't release it the first chance they got? The demands now for what AI must be is going way up due to this mode, but I guess I just find that if you take it for what it is, it's not REALLY that bad. Again, try NHL 09 BAP, and then tell me PES 09 BAL has bad AI, and that the com decides for you whether you win or lose.

In PES 09, I find the frustration a challenge, but generally a legitimate one (even the corners, which I agree happen too often). There are also some times though, like when the other CF does a roulette and a chip pass through to me and I slot home on the half volley in extra time for the winner, that I think... Well, dare I say it's just not going to get much better? Don't get me wrong, I agree about much of what is being said, I'm just trying not to let it ruin the things I love about the game.