Rat Monkey
Registered User
Why thank you. Glad to be of service.:laugh:
General Demo Discussion/Impressions
- Thread starter Soccerdude
- Start date
DIECI
Registered User
:shocking: Ok.. they need to fix that crap!
r9maradona
Registered User
What crap? You obviously don't watch much football, here is an example of Higuian chasing back at the same speed as well as covering the same distance:
Go to 2:34.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/10041824/higua_n_vs_manchester_united/
Admittedly I've not owned a PES game since PES 2010 so I'm not sure if it's commonplace these days, but is there a way to turn off the names above each individual players' head? I know you can turn the computer ones off, but I couldn't find one for your own team. I just find it really distracting. I much prefer having a bar in the bottom left or right corner of the screen.
IronCity
Banned
i like how fifa flashes the name for about 1 second after a player receives the ball and then gone again. Not only is it distracting in PES but I find it literally hides the ball and a defender trying to tackle you.
The Eristic
Registered User
Just played my first match, Bayern vs United. Looks great for a demo, plays quite well as far as passing game and movement, excellent animations, can actually employ different styles of football and see them playing out. Players feel unique when under player control and it's a nice challenge adapting to what they bring and making them all work together. I'm going to fiddle with the game speed and learn some of the new controls tomorrow. Shooting seems a bit different, I played on Superstar difficulty and drew 0-0, had 75% possession and created some chances but couldn't get anything on target, placement seems even more sensitive than normal for PES. Pace also seems to be implemented differently than previous versions, but I can't quite describe how yet. I like that players seem to be more able to interact with each other physically, don't just phase through each other on and off the ball.
Immediate thing that sticks out as a negative is the AI's seeming obsession with dribbling, I guess so the developers could show off the "independent ball". Every single AI player will dribble basically until he gets clattered or otherwise dispossessed, doing little turns and feints no matter who it is. That really loses any "cool" factor after Michael Carrick has dribbled out of his own box all the way to yours doing 14 fake passes and sidesteps along the way. This will be hell against the Barca/Madrid abusers online.
Strength Stat-based strong-arming opposition off the ball looks to have made a comeback (Adriano in '08, anyone?), but perhaps a bit too effective (though similarly strong players can hold each other off and properly battle, which is nice).
Assisted/Semi player switching seems touchy and not terribly intelligent, but that's a problem in every sports game ever, imo. Would usually play unassisted, but response to click seems a little slow and the player you want to switch to will often perform AI-queued actions (in response to your last action) before you take over, a couple of which seem potentially exploitable or otherwise problematic. Those may be preventable if they're part of the various "assisted" settings.
Immediate thing that sticks out as a negative is the AI's seeming obsession with dribbling, I guess so the developers could show off the "independent ball". Every single AI player will dribble basically until he gets clattered or otherwise dispossessed, doing little turns and feints no matter who it is. That really loses any "cool" factor after Michael Carrick has dribbled out of his own box all the way to yours doing 14 fake passes and sidesteps along the way. This will be hell against the Barca/Madrid abusers online.
Strength Stat-based strong-arming opposition off the ball looks to have made a comeback (Adriano in '08, anyone?), but perhaps a bit too effective (though similarly strong players can hold each other off and properly battle, which is nice).
Assisted/Semi player switching seems touchy and not terribly intelligent, but that's a problem in every sports game ever, imo. Would usually play unassisted, but response to click seems a little slow and the player you want to switch to will often perform AI-queued actions (in response to your last action) before you take over, a couple of which seem potentially exploitable or otherwise problematic. Those may be preventable if they're part of the various "assisted" settings.
Das:Fohlen
Registered User
you can switch off the names above your teams head in controller menu and the cpu names in systems
Desijut
Registered User
names can be turned off in settings, wouldnt the first place to check be there if you want something changed? The radar was annoying me so the first thing i did was make it translucent.
Anyway, there are a few non gamebreaking issues in the game, but the worst seems to be the catch up bug returning, but it doesnt always happen...
After getting used to the weight shift, it's a revelation. When going back to the fifa demo, i felt frustrated that they didnt have a similar system. But still, off the ball runs is still feeling awkward. Im annoyed I cant toggle through players with the right stick as well.
Is it just me or is tackling opponents really hard? I find im mainly getting the ball from interceptions. Maybe it's because I'm playing on superstar?
One thing though, I still sometimes feel that stats have been boosted on superstar, stuff like pace, etc but thinking about it, it could be the players perfomance improving due to the crowd, blah, blah, since I dont think this all of the time.
One thing the game needs is an intermediate speed dribble. Sometimes R1 is too uncontrollable and not pressing it is too slow. Maybe holding L2?
Also, I think if they made it a bit more responsive it would help add to the gameplay. And I'm not sure whether it's frame rate issues, but the whole slowing down and speeding up needs to be fixed.
Overall I'm still pleased and not getting angry at the game.
But the niggles I find are with fouls. They're both too strict and too leniant. Too strict in giving yellows and too leniant in actually calling a foul.
I said before it didnt feel on rails for through balls, etc, well it still is and sometimes players stand around when a ball is passed allowing the ball past them. And sometimes your caught by surprise by the cursor suddenly changing and you not being able to react quickly enough. What happened to auto pass in those instances?
Anyway, there are a few non gamebreaking issues in the game, but the worst seems to be the catch up bug returning, but it doesnt always happen...
After getting used to the weight shift, it's a revelation. When going back to the fifa demo, i felt frustrated that they didnt have a similar system. But still, off the ball runs is still feeling awkward. Im annoyed I cant toggle through players with the right stick as well.
Is it just me or is tackling opponents really hard? I find im mainly getting the ball from interceptions. Maybe it's because I'm playing on superstar?
One thing though, I still sometimes feel that stats have been boosted on superstar, stuff like pace, etc but thinking about it, it could be the players perfomance improving due to the crowd, blah, blah, since I dont think this all of the time.
One thing the game needs is an intermediate speed dribble. Sometimes R1 is too uncontrollable and not pressing it is too slow. Maybe holding L2?
Also, I think if they made it a bit more responsive it would help add to the gameplay. And I'm not sure whether it's frame rate issues, but the whole slowing down and speeding up needs to be fixed.
Overall I'm still pleased and not getting angry at the game.
But the niggles I find are with fouls. They're both too strict and too leniant. Too strict in giving yellows and too leniant in actually calling a foul.
I said before it didnt feel on rails for through balls, etc, well it still is and sometimes players stand around when a ball is passed allowing the ball past them. And sometimes your caught by surprise by the cursor suddenly changing and you not being able to react quickly enough. What happened to auto pass in those instances?
Rat Monkey
Registered User
You can toggle between players with the right stick, but you have to press LB while doing it. Also, now it displays an arrow from the player your controlling in the direction your moving the right stick, so you can point exactly to the player you want to switch to which is better than it was. I never used it before because it made more sense naturally for me that you would switch to a player relative to the ball, rather than the player your controlling because largely your attention is drawn to the ball and switching to a player in the best position to go after it. They had that system on ISS on the super nintendo and it was excellent for always selecting the exact player you want. I don't know how people find it natural the way it is now, minus the new arrow that is.
Guys,
Switching between players is the same as 2013. You just need to press L1 while directing the right analog stick to the desired player. As some of you may know this is how you make another player run while you are attacking. This can be very useful if you are making a through pass with L1 plus triangle. I have tried this combination and my attacker beats the defender almost everytime.
Anyway, here is my other point. You can switch between defenders the same way. Just press L1 and move the right analog stick to where you want to select the defender. You will soon realize that it just works the same as 2013. It might take a couple of games getting used to but it's actually not that bad. I guess you can also remove the blue arrow that appears so it will be just the same as 2013. This also works with free kicks and corners by the way.
Hope that helps.
Cheers
Switching between players is the same as 2013. You just need to press L1 while directing the right analog stick to the desired player. As some of you may know this is how you make another player run while you are attacking. This can be very useful if you are making a through pass with L1 plus triangle. I have tried this combination and my attacker beats the defender almost everytime.
Anyway, here is my other point. You can switch between defenders the same way. Just press L1 and move the right analog stick to where you want to select the defender. You will soon realize that it just works the same as 2013. It might take a couple of games getting used to but it's actually not that bad. I guess you can also remove the blue arrow that appears so it will be just the same as 2013. This also works with free kicks and corners by the way.
Hope that helps.
Cheers
The Eristic
Registered User
Played several more games now.
Off-the-ball movement and passing range seem to be the biggest pros, as far as gameplay goes. Several important cons, though, most of which are expounding on what I mentioned earlier after first play.
Player switching, regardless of settings and method, is becoming more evidently problematic, particularly in defense. The issues of input command delay on switch and contradictory input need resolution, as the ONLY goals I've conceded are due to defenders halting their movement immediately on switch or going completely screwy due to some apparent difficulty discarding the movement of the previously controlled player. Attackers will halt their runs, too, which is not quite as big of a problem but still frustrating.
Playing one-touch football seems an impossibility, regardless of how early I queue the pass before receipt of ball, the player will either take an extra touch or simply wait before executing the pass. Is there a new control or technique I'm missing? There seems to be extra touches almost everywhere, honestly. (Speaking of passing, occasionally pass direction goes haywire, too, usually resulting in a pass nowhere near the direction indicated and always directly to the opposition.)
Can't find game speed setting in the demo. This version feels like it needs to go up to +1 or even +2.
Advancing the dribbling concern I mentioned earlier, I played several matches against United and England, and in every single one, Rooney executed at least two roulettes as soon as the tackling animation began and successfully completed all of them. That is a huge red flag, as that sort of technnique is neither in player hands nor the real world A: something you see with such regularity and B: something that should be executed so simply and so perfectly with said frequency. It screams that either the dreaded "S" word still infests the AI and/or that elaborate dribbling/close control techniques are too easy to execute. Both the AI and I seem to be able to dribble just as well and just as fancifully with highly-skilled dribblers as with players with no real dribbling ability.
Goalkeepers seem OK except for some problems coming to claim the ball in the air (they'll come for it but make no effort to actually take it or punch it), they parry in situations where they could EASILY hold the ball, and if they come off their line or get caught out of position, they take ages to get back, don't really even try when they should be busting their asses.
Will keep playing; as I begin to understand the mechanics of this version more deeply, perhaps some things will be mitigated. I fear they seem too central to core gameplay elements, though.
Off-the-ball movement and passing range seem to be the biggest pros, as far as gameplay goes. Several important cons, though, most of which are expounding on what I mentioned earlier after first play.
Player switching, regardless of settings and method, is becoming more evidently problematic, particularly in defense. The issues of input command delay on switch and contradictory input need resolution, as the ONLY goals I've conceded are due to defenders halting their movement immediately on switch or going completely screwy due to some apparent difficulty discarding the movement of the previously controlled player. Attackers will halt their runs, too, which is not quite as big of a problem but still frustrating.
Playing one-touch football seems an impossibility, regardless of how early I queue the pass before receipt of ball, the player will either take an extra touch or simply wait before executing the pass. Is there a new control or technique I'm missing? There seems to be extra touches almost everywhere, honestly. (Speaking of passing, occasionally pass direction goes haywire, too, usually resulting in a pass nowhere near the direction indicated and always directly to the opposition.)
Can't find game speed setting in the demo. This version feels like it needs to go up to +1 or even +2.
Advancing the dribbling concern I mentioned earlier, I played several matches against United and England, and in every single one, Rooney executed at least two roulettes as soon as the tackling animation began and successfully completed all of them. That is a huge red flag, as that sort of technnique is neither in player hands nor the real world A: something you see with such regularity and B: something that should be executed so simply and so perfectly with said frequency. It screams that either the dreaded "S" word still infests the AI and/or that elaborate dribbling/close control techniques are too easy to execute. Both the AI and I seem to be able to dribble just as well and just as fancifully with highly-skilled dribblers as with players with no real dribbling ability.
Goalkeepers seem OK except for some problems coming to claim the ball in the air (they'll come for it but make no effort to actually take it or punch it), they parry in situations where they could EASILY hold the ball, and if they come off their line or get caught out of position, they take ages to get back, don't really even try when they should be busting their asses.
Will keep playing; as I begin to understand the mechanics of this version more deeply, perhaps some things will be mitigated. I fear they seem too central to core gameplay elements, though.
r9maradona
Registered User
After a four hour session I have to admit my criticism that I stated yesterday was mostly wrong, I don't think it is an exaggeration to say that his is the best football game I have ever played, in fact I would go as far as saying one of THE most enjoyable games, of any genre I have ever played. Before you guys call me an idiot or knee-jerker or what have you allow me tell you why first...
The games against the computer, at least on this Demo anyway, are perfectively balanced (on SuperStar difficulty). The possession battle is often very even, maybe on average I come out slightly on top but the competitiveness between myself and the computer is pretty much perfect. Surely Konami have put extra effort into this instalment, because the improvement over the last game in nearly every area is immeasurable. Last year playing the computer was an predictable chore, the computer's team would simply sit back every single game (I am talking about the hardest difficulty setting here) and counter attack in the same predictable way every time. I would come away with over 60 % possession nearly every game and a feeling of not being challenged (apart from trying to break down the computer's defence sometimes, but that was the only challenge).
Now the AI opposition harrie you all over the pitch, even in your own penalty box when appropriate. There is basically no comfortable zone on the pitch for you to rest on your laurels now. On the ball the AI is very intelligent, the most intelligent of any AI opposition I have ever seen in an football game, their decision making on the ball is spot on, they know when to make an exchanging of short passes, they know when to play the ball back to their defenders to escape pressure when even most human players would be tempted to go for an overly ambitious through-ball. Their array of attacking options is vast, they will equally attack you through the middle or down the wings. The only bad thing about them is their finishing, they waste too many good opportunities for my liking by overrunning the ball into my keeper, but that's no big deal really. Defensively they are solid but not superhuman like in some previous games, if you play well you can make a few good chances a game which is realistic. I can't stress just how perfect the competitiveness is when playing the opposition AI, playing them is a challenge but at no moment do you feel like you are playing an flawless robot (like on Fifa), it's very much like playing another human who is good at the game.
As for the technical part of the game, it's excellent overall but let down in a couple of areas. The use of the right analogue stick as a balance controller is an neat addition, it makes for a nice way to receive the ball when square on by holding the right stick in the opposite direction of the ball, this lets you open your body out and let the ball run past your body onto your other foot. This might sound like something insignificant but it can add another dimension to your passing game once mastered. There are other benefits of this feature but they will take longer to master I feel, basically it gives you more options for tricks and dribbling. But also you can use it to shoulder barge and lean into your opponents, both on and off the ball, this makes great use of the game's improved animations and is an simple yet effective tool in your arsenal. It can be a real joy to use, my favourite moment was when Rooney was running on to the ball, my player Javi Martinez was running alongside him so I shoved him out the way by jolting the right stick towards him, Martinez literally lifted Rooney off the ground such was his strength advantage, literally both his feet were in the air and he landed a full yard away.
The passing in general is very good, some of the moves you can pull off put a smile on your face because it is so realistic, challenging and it champions the essence of the beautiful game. But the main weakness seems to be the through-balls, their outcome seems to be very inconsistent, sometimes they come off as normal passes to feet, sometimes they come off as through-balls but are often too under-hit or inaccurate. Through-balls that are about 5 yards or less are normally over-hit too, making the use of manual-passing a better option to performs these. Through-balls for me are the biggest area of the game that needs fixing. Switching between players when you are out of possession can also be a struggle too unfortunately., this is one of the few areas that has worsened since the last game. Shooting is slightly better than the last game but still a bit too “floaty” for my liking. Headers seem to be fixed though.
Dribbling with the ball feels very rewarding. Pirlo feels like Pirlo. Xavi feels like Xavi. And when I made Iniesta do that trick of his when he turns clockwise with the ball, almost in one movement,by using the outside of this foot in such a way that it skins his marker and leaves him for dead, I realized just how much he felt like the real thing. It felt truly amazing.
The Goalkeepers are now perfect you couldn’t ask for anything more IMO. As well as the animations in the whole game, brilliant. Even better than Fifa IMO. Some of the tackling animations make you sit up in your chair.
They improved something which I plainly stated they needed to before the demo came out, that is your teams tactical options. In the previous game you couldn't keep a deep defensive line and “block” without your team continually pushing high up the pitch (often to the half-way line) whenever you got the ball or the all was in the oppositions half. Now, using the sliders you can truly make your team park the bus, there is also an in-play option with which you can actively adjust your defensive line to move it quickly either forward or backwards, being able to realisticly play an off-side trap, whenever you want, is just brilliant.
Once you play this game for a few hours you realize how shit Fifa is, on PES players are individuals. In Fifa it feels like all the players are somehow connected with each other, maybe that's why certain patterns in the game pop up again and again. Like the way most goals are scored with an cut-back across the 6 yard box. The same thing with the ball, in PES it feels like an separate entity to the players and so there is a lot of loose balls, in Fifa the ball feels like it is an magnet that is attracted to the players. That may be an exaggeration but it is an good analogy I think. So yeah, I played Fifa for a while not long ago, it gets stale fast.
So whether Konami have improved other issues, like online play for example, remains to be seen. However, unless they spectacularly fuck the final version up, I am talking specifically about the game-play, I think I can safely say that PES is back!
Now I'm finally going to bed because both my wrists and eyes are hurting !!!
It is possible trust me, I am starting to get good at it, it just takes practice. I think the success of one-touch football on this is to try and press the pass and direction buttons sharply, and let go of the passing button just before the ball reaches your foot. Some of the one touch passing I pulled off was brilliant, sometimes about 5 passes in a row in tight spaces too. It was best when I was using players like Silva, Iniesta and Xavi. Player individuality coming into effect again .Use a mix of normal passing, the through-ball button and manual passing depending on the situation. Practice, practice, practice and you will learn.
The games against the computer, at least on this Demo anyway, are perfectively balanced (on SuperStar difficulty). The possession battle is often very even, maybe on average I come out slightly on top but the competitiveness between myself and the computer is pretty much perfect. Surely Konami have put extra effort into this instalment, because the improvement over the last game in nearly every area is immeasurable. Last year playing the computer was an predictable chore, the computer's team would simply sit back every single game (I am talking about the hardest difficulty setting here) and counter attack in the same predictable way every time. I would come away with over 60 % possession nearly every game and a feeling of not being challenged (apart from trying to break down the computer's defence sometimes, but that was the only challenge).
Now the AI opposition harrie you all over the pitch, even in your own penalty box when appropriate. There is basically no comfortable zone on the pitch for you to rest on your laurels now. On the ball the AI is very intelligent, the most intelligent of any AI opposition I have ever seen in an football game, their decision making on the ball is spot on, they know when to make an exchanging of short passes, they know when to play the ball back to their defenders to escape pressure when even most human players would be tempted to go for an overly ambitious through-ball. Their array of attacking options is vast, they will equally attack you through the middle or down the wings. The only bad thing about them is their finishing, they waste too many good opportunities for my liking by overrunning the ball into my keeper, but that's no big deal really. Defensively they are solid but not superhuman like in some previous games, if you play well you can make a few good chances a game which is realistic. I can't stress just how perfect the competitiveness is when playing the opposition AI, playing them is a challenge but at no moment do you feel like you are playing an flawless robot (like on Fifa), it's very much like playing another human who is good at the game.
As for the technical part of the game, it's excellent overall but let down in a couple of areas. The use of the right analogue stick as a balance controller is an neat addition, it makes for a nice way to receive the ball when square on by holding the right stick in the opposite direction of the ball, this lets you open your body out and let the ball run past your body onto your other foot. This might sound like something insignificant but it can add another dimension to your passing game once mastered. There are other benefits of this feature but they will take longer to master I feel, basically it gives you more options for tricks and dribbling. But also you can use it to shoulder barge and lean into your opponents, both on and off the ball, this makes great use of the game's improved animations and is an simple yet effective tool in your arsenal. It can be a real joy to use, my favourite moment was when Rooney was running on to the ball, my player Javi Martinez was running alongside him so I shoved him out the way by jolting the right stick towards him, Martinez literally lifted Rooney off the ground such was his strength advantage, literally both his feet were in the air and he landed a full yard away.
The passing in general is very good, some of the moves you can pull off put a smile on your face because it is so realistic, challenging and it champions the essence of the beautiful game. But the main weakness seems to be the through-balls, their outcome seems to be very inconsistent, sometimes they come off as normal passes to feet, sometimes they come off as through-balls but are often too under-hit or inaccurate. Through-balls that are about 5 yards or less are normally over-hit too, making the use of manual-passing a better option to performs these. Through-balls for me are the biggest area of the game that needs fixing. Switching between players when you are out of possession can also be a struggle too unfortunately., this is one of the few areas that has worsened since the last game. Shooting is slightly better than the last game but still a bit too “floaty” for my liking. Headers seem to be fixed though.
Dribbling with the ball feels very rewarding. Pirlo feels like Pirlo. Xavi feels like Xavi. And when I made Iniesta do that trick of his when he turns clockwise with the ball, almost in one movement,by using the outside of this foot in such a way that it skins his marker and leaves him for dead, I realized just how much he felt like the real thing. It felt truly amazing.
The Goalkeepers are now perfect you couldn’t ask for anything more IMO. As well as the animations in the whole game, brilliant. Even better than Fifa IMO. Some of the tackling animations make you sit up in your chair.
They improved something which I plainly stated they needed to before the demo came out, that is your teams tactical options. In the previous game you couldn't keep a deep defensive line and “block” without your team continually pushing high up the pitch (often to the half-way line) whenever you got the ball or the all was in the oppositions half. Now, using the sliders you can truly make your team park the bus, there is also an in-play option with which you can actively adjust your defensive line to move it quickly either forward or backwards, being able to realisticly play an off-side trap, whenever you want, is just brilliant.
Once you play this game for a few hours you realize how shit Fifa is, on PES players are individuals. In Fifa it feels like all the players are somehow connected with each other, maybe that's why certain patterns in the game pop up again and again. Like the way most goals are scored with an cut-back across the 6 yard box. The same thing with the ball, in PES it feels like an separate entity to the players and so there is a lot of loose balls, in Fifa the ball feels like it is an magnet that is attracted to the players. That may be an exaggeration but it is an good analogy I think. So yeah, I played Fifa for a while not long ago, it gets stale fast.
So whether Konami have improved other issues, like online play for example, remains to be seen. However, unless they spectacularly fuck the final version up, I am talking specifically about the game-play, I think I can safely say that PES is back!
Now I'm finally going to bed because both my wrists and eyes are hurting !!!
It is possible trust me, I am starting to get good at it, it just takes practice. I think the success of one-touch football on this is to try and press the pass and direction buttons sharply, and let go of the passing button just before the ball reaches your foot. Some of the one touch passing I pulled off was brilliant, sometimes about 5 passes in a row in tight spaces too. It was best when I was using players like Silva, Iniesta and Xavi. Player individuality coming into effect again
.Use a mix of normal passing, the through-ball button and manual passing depending on the situation. Practice, practice, practice and you will learn.
r9maradona
Registered User
It's also nice that the importance of Pace has been introduced back into the series, in the last few games all the players seemed about the same pace wise, there was no burst of pace to speak of. But I am just playing as England now and Walcott is deadly playing on last man of the oppositions defense, once he's away he pulls away from the defenders just like in real life with a quick acceleration, there is simply no catching him if keep hold of R1. Really impressed by the player individuality this year, this feature is finally living up to it's name. Other players like Lampard as well, he kind of runs how he does in real life. Obviously they can't do this for all players, but so far all the popular, some would say star players look and play how they do in real life.
Soccerdude
Registered User
Wow so the EU version of the demo really does play lot better. Frame rate issues are gone.The Team selection menu has no lag.The game speed overall feels lot more balanced due to which Dribbling is bit easier and shooting feels perfect (Not Floaty). Also your finger doesn't tire out after playing 4-5 games.