Patch 1.0.2 first impressions thread!

[LOL-ness]

I think some people need to realise that teams such as Barca and Real Madrid are operating in real life outside their means. Both teams have huge debts. Maybe Konami are trying to reflect that this type of spending is unmanageable in the long run. Heh.

However, the problem still remains for players who like to build their own fantasy teams. Sometimes, that means some realistic laws must be ignored for that to happen.

But I do agree with you. It IS pretty realistic. I'd have no problem with it if I am managing my team for realism. However, right now I am still stuck in the "want to build my fantasy team" phase

 

[u1tradt]

However, the problem still remains for players who like to build their own fantasy teams. Sometimes, that means some realistic laws must be ignored for that to happen.

But I do agree with you. It IS pretty realistic. I'd have no problem with it if I am managing my team for realism. However, right now I am still stuck in the "want to build my fantasy team" phase

If you want to build a fantasy team when you're Real Madrid then you're going to have to get rid of some players to free up salaries. If you want your own fantasy team then that would imply there are some players in the team you won't be playing, so sell them. It's all about balance: Konami have to strike the right balance by giving you enough money to be able to live within your means, but once you start to cross that line and your expenditure goes out of control compared to inflow of cash then you will be punished for it.

In real life there are many variables we can go into as to why the big clubs don't suffer these so-called problems in the game but the fact remains that nearly all the top clubs in Europe's strongest leagues (except Germany) are in massive debt. And their debts will have definitely caught up with most of them by the next 5 years, just look at Liverpool's little episode recently and many teams from the Championship.

 

[Hello Clitty]

so what's the verdict on shooting and player switching? I'll hold off on applying the patch until I know.

 

[LOL-ness]

If you want to build a fantasy team when you're Real Madrid then you're going to have to get rid of some players to free up salaries. If you want your own fantasy team then that would imply there are some players in the team you won't be playing, so sell them. It's all about balance: Konami have to strike the right balance by giving you enough money to be able to live within your means, but once you start to cross that line and your expenditure goes out of control compared to inflow of cash then you will be punished for it.

Oh I assure you I did sell all the surplus players I don't need (some of them are even stars!). Still, about to go in the red when I finish my 5th season.

Here's what I did:

Over the past 5 years, I bought Lahm, Vidic, Thomas Müller to give me better defenses and more SS player options (I play 4-3-3 but I use 2 SS and 1 CF up front). So C. Ronaldo plays CF, while Kaka and Müller plays SS. I also ended up buying Deco, Henry and Cannavaro, resurrected and very cheap, as well as Johnny Evans from Man U. The same year, I sold: Benzema, Higuain, Arbeloa, Albiol, Pepe, Gago, M.Diarra, Granero, Canales...etc.

Essentially, I only bought 3 players from existing teams, and 3 cheap "resurrected" youths. I ended up selling the rest. Here's what I am left with:

5th year:
Starting 11:
Casillas;
S.Ramos, Carvalho, Vidic, Lahm;
Alonso;
Khedira, Ozil;
Kaka, Müller;
C.Ronaldo.
Bench:
Dudek; Evans, Marcelo; L Diarra, Deco; Di Maria, Henry.
Reserves:
Cannavaro.

Assuming you are familiar with Real Madrid's rooster, you'd have noticed that the changes I've incorporated are mostly fairly cheap (most expensive purchases were Vidic and Müller), and I've also sold a fair share of stars I don't use (mainly Higuain, Benzema, Arbeloa...etc).

I've won mostly everything these past 5 years (a few draws here and there, only lost a handful of losses which didn't have much of an effect on trophies). By the end of the 5th year, I'd be £100 million in debt. The reason being the salary level of my Starting 11 is too high (and note: 8/11 players are already in Real Madrid).

Quite a big problem if you ask me, since I didn't go on a buying spree without selling a lot.

I understand that this is already a problem for Real Madrid in real life, but is there no way for Konami in do something about this? Realism only takes the game so far without ruining the experience for the player. IMO a bit of fantasy doesn't hurt.

 

[pesral]

Finance problem in ML is not just in PES 2011, previous PES has the same problem.
Regarding of what other people said, I won every single match which means all trophies available as well. Still, my team is losing money each season (60M at the very least). Please note that I didn't buy any single player. Due to all my winnings, my players got all the individual awards available so their market value go up rapidly every single season hence their salaries as well.

PES should look at financial system at Football Managers. I won every single match and titles there as well. Every season I made lots of profit. Therefore I could buy a few expensive players each season.

 

[u1tradt]

@LOL-ness I see now. My advice would be to ditch the idea of a 100% fantasy team and look at which players are not absolutely essential and replace them with someone of similar ability but far less market value. Personally that's what I've been doing with my team, I retain key players that win games for me but everyone else I keep on low salaries like goalies and wingers for example (all I need from a winger is pace and long ball stats really). That's probably why I've got so much money doing nothing for me.

But I get you though, to have your dream team would be impossible because there's not enough money coming in to pay for everything you owe. The best way around this right now is to just replace guys who you wouldn't be sorry without I suppose. Not really much else you could do.

 

[Neolucifer]

However, the problem still remains for players who like to build their own fantasy teams. Sometimes, that means some realistic laws must be ignored for that to happen.

But I do agree with you. It IS pretty realistic. I'd have no problem with it if I am managing my team for realism. However, right now I am still stuck in the "want to build my fantasy team" phase

I know you might not like my opinion about it , but the way i see it , if someone just want a dream team without dealing with consequences , they might just edit teams via the menu of the same name and transfert the best players there .

Hell till 2009 i even used to recreate teams and players from soccer animes and manga i love (like Whistle , or Area no Kishi )


Team like Real are already an expensive dream team , if you turn them into an utopia without being forced to sell once everywhile , you'd be pretty much sucking dry one of the only difficulty of the game .

 

[Steev09]

All sounds pretty good with the tweak to transfers etc, only played a couple of games since downloading the new version and things did seem smoother, first thing I noticed was that they took the time to wh0re out the game for advertising purposes, I just wish they could have advertised something cool like Nike or SkySports instead of the stupid pringles adboard, I noticed it does change back to lucozaze on occasion though so its not that bad, altogether though a very nice touch by Konami once again!!!

 

[unla81]

Why are people complaining about finances already? the patch came out yesterday, no way you've had time to play even half a season yet.
Lol-ness you keep going on about your 5 season game and how you're now in debt, but most of those 5 seasons were played before the 1.02 patch surely.
By all means complain once you've completed one or two seasons with the new patch and it looks like the finances are a mess but I think its a bit early to complain right now.

What is clear is that pre patch the player values were plainly wrong, so something had to be done and I'm really glad Konami have listened. Not saying they've done a good or bad job with it yet, because as mentioned above that would require at least one or two full seasons to be completed.

 

[Hello Clitty]

Is it possible to remove a patch once it's applied?

 

[Skeezix]

You're the only person who got it here in the US, can I ask how you got it? Or are you just playing with us?

I just turn on the game and it downloaded automatically.
It was only 2MB long.

And its working, I already turned off the names above players and also I sell Owen in ML for 20 millons (before the patch I was getting offers by 4 mill :unsure. Although I havent played it enough to take a look at the other changes.

 

[LOL-ness]

Why are people complaining about finances already? the patch came out yesterday, no way you've had time to play even half a season yet.
Lol-ness you keep going on about your 5 season game and how you're now in debt, but most of those 5 seasons were played before the 1.02 patch surely.
By all means complain once you've completed one or two seasons with the new patch and it looks like the finances are a mess but I think its a bit early to complain right now.

You're absolutely right, I've yet to try the patch yet. Hopefully I'll be able to earn more money to pay off my impending debt.

But I've also heard something about clubs wanting a ton of money as well when you want to buy some player off them (be him good or bad), so this improvement might be a double-edge sword.

I know you might not like my opinion about it , but the way i see it , if someone just want a dream team without dealing with consequences , they might just edit teams via the menu of the same name and transfert the best players there .

You're right. However, as explained already in my previous post, I've actually done a lot to undo the imbalance of good players in my Real Madrid team. I've only effectively added 3 quality players into the team, while selling the rest I don't need, including a few star players, and effectively just keeping 2-3 decent players on the bench to make sure I survive the injury crises, and a starting 11 I have mostly left intact. The rest are "resurrected" players, all cheap signings. Even then, I probably won't survive the 6th year.

@LOL-ness I see now. My advice would be to ditch the idea of a 100% fantasy team and look at which players are not absolutely essential and replace them with someone of similar ability but far less market value. Personally that's what I've been doing with my team, I retain key players that win games for me but everyone else I keep on low salaries like goalies and wingers for example (all I need from a winger is pace and long ball stats really). That's probably why I've got so much money doing nothing for me.

Yeah, you're right. I might end up having to just sell Alonso, Dudek and Evans this year and promote L.Diarra to take Alonso's place, although I'll effectively be without a good playmaker by doing so (hopefully Ozil can replace him). I also noticed Van der Sar Jr. and Sol Campbell Jr. in the market, so I might try to sign them as well to balance my reserves a bit.

 

[Avelives]

@LOL-ness I see now. My advice would be to ditch the idea of a 100% fantasy team and look at which players are not absolutely essential and replace them with someone of similar ability but far less market value. Personally that's what I've been doing with my team, I retain key players that win games for me but everyone else I keep on low salaries like goalies and wingers for example (all I need from a winger is pace and long ball stats really). That's probably why I've got so much money doing nothing for me.

But I get you though, to have your dream team would be impossible because there's not enough money coming in to pay for everything you owe. The best way around this right now is to just replace guys who you wouldn't be sorry without I suppose. Not really much else you could do.

Your missing the point entirely, Konami quite clearly neglected to alter the monetary awards for winning, sponsorship, etc as it was pre-patch it worked (albeit with the actual values being stupid) but it was balanced.

Post patch you cannot sustain a team, especially a winning team due to the ludicrous wage demands of players who win things and new blood you bring in, yes you can in theory make it work by basically managing in the style of West Ham and selling everyone and ending up with total crap but really are you suggesting Konami intended that?

 

[Tech_Skill]

Your missing the point entirely, Konami quite clearly neglected to alter the monetary awards for winning, sponsorship, etc as it was pre-patch it worked (albeit with the actual values being stupid) but it was balanced.

Post patch you cannot sustain a team, especially a winning team due to the ludicrous wage demands of players who win things and new blood you bring in, yes you can in theory make it work by basically managing in the style of West Ham and selling everyone and ending up with total crap but really are you suggesting Konami intended that?

BINGO

Someone actually understands what the fuck ive been trying to explain since yesterday.

My thread about this is on PESFan and some plank has already tried to say we are crazy, I should go on that crap forum and put him away, but cant be assed, I got a better idea, which is coming up.

To me its simple until someone explains the proper resolution.

You are paying MORE money for players but getting the SAME bonuses, income etc.

Straight away that tells you we have a potential issue with finance imbalance, even without the other evidence we have in this thread.

 

[getorres77]

Hey, does someone know when the patch for US Version will be out? I feel like we've been discriminated by Konami. We paid for our games too!!

 

[JMTD]

So it needs to be fixed, oh well. Try playing until you're fired, never know, it may pick up? Shame and I get both sides of the debate, but I hate the fantasy team stuff personally and like realism and a challenge. United cant go out and buy Messi and Villa tomorrow, so why should they in this game? Sure do get peoples points, but mn, have a challenge for once. I'm starting a new ML today with Cardiff in the Championship, what a joy it'll be compared to boring fantasy teams winning every game.

Don't forget, if you're so fussed and don't want realism, why not just apply to special funds which can be brought in the shop? That way you will have no problem and no reason to moan. Sure, it can be tweaked and fixed in the future, but there's ways round it right now other than complaining. Has anybody even been fired yet due to money?

 

[valid]

I see you guys point now, but is this a patch problem? Weren't theese financial miscalculations in the ML beforehand? I don't think they have actually changed the player values and thereby salaries, only the amount of money clubs ask for their players. Before you could buy a 2 mil valued player for 3-6 mil, now a club will demand more in the likes of 8-20, depending on the individuel. But this goes for the guys you decide to sell as well.

SO my point is; Is this really a patch problem!? Haven't the patch on the opposite made easier to sustain a large economy through selling your fringe. youth, etc players once in a while?

 

[Tech_Skill]

I see you guys point now, but is this a patch problem? Weren't theese financial miscalculations in the ML beforehand? I don't think they have actually changed the player values and thereby salaries, only the amount of money clubs ask for their players. Before you could buy a 2 mil valued player for 3-6 mil, now a club will demand more in the likes of 8-20, depending on the individuel. But this goes for the guys you decide to sell as well.

SO my point is; Is this really a patch problem!? Haven't the patch on the opposite made easier to sustain a large economy through selling your fringe. youth, etc players once in a while?

Very good Question, at the moment here are my thoughts.

The patch DOES have the potential to make it worse, simply because if you sign a player and dont sell, you LOSE even more money than you would pre patch, simply because the cost of players has RISEN, but the Income you get is the SAME (from what i have seen so far)

So you will potentially end up in a worse situation than before.

Pre patch, lets say you have get an income of 50 mil, you can buy a good player for 2/3/4/5 million, which means you are left with lots of money. around 45 million lets say.

Now, you are getting the SAME income, for instance 50 million, but a good player now costs 20 million, so you are worse off than you were before the patch, That's even before the we talk about the miscalculations of above.

Iv'e probably made a meal of this but do you see what im trying to say? Im not saying im 100% right about EVERYTHING, but i havent seen anything yet that makes me think this isnt a SERIOUS issue.

 

[arsenald]

tech u started something at pesfan lol

 

[Tech_Skill]

tech u started something at pesfan lol

:laugh:

This is the question we are asking.

Real Madrid season 1

The budget = 255 million.

After salary and operating costs= Budget = 124 million.

Expected earnings are for the rest of the season are +74 million (Sponsorship and income from home games etc)

So does this mean I start next season with at least 198 million??

Because if so..........

Next season SALARY AND OPERATING COSTS ARE THE SAME COS YOU NEVER SIGNED ANYONE, WE NOT EVEN TAKING INTO ACCOUNT WAGES INCREASES FROM NEW CONTRACTS LMAO.

So Season 2

198 MILLION - 124 million for SALARY AND OPERATING COSTS = About 74 Million budget for next season.

You are LOSING money every season without singing/selling players surely?


This is the question that is being asked, because that system is not sustainable, its got nothing to do with how minutes you play (LMAO)

And as for the fucking bonuses, another member says who has the same issue says.........

Unfortunately, bonuses for winning games aren't a lot (even if you count the bonuses you get for winning at home, getting into the last 16 in the Champions League, or winning the League cup, or merchandise sales). They probably amount to less than £25-30 million in total.

Sponsorship deals, I've found, is somehow capped to £30-33 million, even when you are on an annual winning streak. This doesn't make sense at all: Wouldn't more and more companies want to sponsor your team for an increasing amount of money if your team has won a treble every year for the last 3 years?

So match bonuses, plus sponsorship deals amount to something around £60 million, and that's already a rather generous calculation. Now, let's look at expenditures: Fan clubs, coaches, doctors, scouts, plus team salary. When you are playing as a top team, you'll probably go in the red already, because you probably end up shelling out £100 million annually without buying additional players. Compare your maximum annual earnings of around £60 million, assuming you've won everything. You'd lose £40 million annually.

ON TOP OF THIS

Thanks to patch 1.0.2 PLAYERS COST MORE MONEY, so if you decided to sign 1 player and not sell anyone, you could be in even more financial trouble, because the COST of players is rising and the INCOME is staying the same.

Or is that not right?