Screenshots, Impact Engines, Animations, Who gives a...

[Alolo91]

Watched the fucking E3 video. Not fucking impressed at all, what the fuck is going on with the so called ''motion capture'' because I ain't seeing any of it in this fucking game.....lets put it into perspective here...

Peter Crouch doing the robot dance had more fluidity then what I saw in this video.

There is a gap in the market here if someone is serious about making a football game, that gap being they still haven't managed to make a great one since about 2007.

I had to cool off on the ''tech skill soccer'' thing because If I talk anymore about it, more people are gonna say ''seriously tech....when's your game coming out, seriously, you cant leave us with these shit games for another year man, bring the game out....come on tech bring it out......please tech.....Please!!!!!''.

The only reason my game aint coming out yet, is because I simply dont want be the cause of massive job cuts at EA and Konami once they realise a game with about 100 employees and a 100 million dollars in budget cannot beat a game that some cunt made up in 30 seconds whilst working a full time job on the side.

That's what i have been trying to tell over at PESFan. They are simple blind.

Just look at the crossing animation from Nagatomo and Sneijder's shot animation. It looks fucking horrible.

And then we have the part 1:19 - 1:24 which is the most awkward of them all.

There are more weird stuff in the vid (Ashley Cole RIGHT foot cross) but can't be arsed to bring them up. Atleast not yet.

 

[Tech_Skill]

That's what i have been trying to tell over at PESFan. They are simple blind.

Just look at the crossing animation from Nagatomo and Sneijder's shot animation. It looks fucking horrible.

And then we have the part 1:19 - 1:24 which is the most awkward of them all.

There are more weird stuff in the vid (Ashley Cole RIGHT foot cross) but can't be arsed to bring them up. Atleast not yet.

that vid reaks of pes2011 with players making forward runs, and physical contact still sucks ass for real. And I saw you say from the moment that vid came out that the animations were sucky.

However your boy adam on wenb is hyping this game up serious...

Saying that if they get the keepers sorted, its up their with the best pes's or some shit like that.



Ill believe that shit when I see it.

WENB really are hyping the game, adam is saying the in game presentation is amazing, staduims have their own camera angles, PK system reworked and more the like the system of old, no more CPU pressure, CPU far better, no more rubber banding on the sprinting so once so slow ass motherfuckers cannot catch you up....

Hmmmm, he says its near perfect apart from the keepers.....

Just sticking that shit up here incase people wanna see it, im actually fucking excited a little now, I just gotta keep telling myself ''Its, WENB they talk shit, play the fucking game and be pleasantly surprised''.

 

[Alolo91]

Adam is okay. Don't have problems with him. He hypes alot, but i'm kinda used to it now. Lucky for me, i don't get caught in the hype train.

Anyway,

I'm afraid that it will be the same shit as last year. This year i atleast won't be defending PES like i did fucking last year.

 

[shaun7]

I never go to wenb because they hype way too much and usually they things they say aren't really the truth.

I will judge when I play the demo.

 

[power_25]

you guys need to cheer up... really!
PES2012 looks exciting. of course it will look like PES2011. what are you expecting?
PES2011 is the base. and now they are improving that base. same story to PES3,4,5,6 look exactly the same but each game plays different somehow and improved.

in 2008,2009,2010 they ddint know what they were doing, and their games were just an experiements and failed... PES2011 is different. it was a success. and also made PES6 look outdated.

 

[Amateur]

PES2011 is the base. and now they are improving that base.

PES11 is not the base. Because PES11 is based on PES10. Which in fact makes PES10 the base.

I think PES11 is ridiculous overrated by a lot of people, the execution is much better than PES10, but other than that, I don't see why PES11 is so much better than PES10, it feels more or less like the same shit to me.

Saying that if they get the keepers sorted, its up their with the best pes's or some shit like that.

Honestly, making a better footy sim than either PES5 or PES6 in year 2012.... Is that something to be proud off?

I think websites like WEMB are just not my cup of tea. I do not doubt that PES12 could well be the best PES to date, however, why should I be excited by that in year 2011?

Four years ago, I expected that in year 2011 we would be talking about how much better PES is, instead, we are still talking about PES5 and PES6, which says it all.

:folarm:

 

[power_25]

dude, i aint saying PES2011 is perfect or anything. its the START POINT!.. and now on konami will improve the game year by year just like the PS2 days pes1/2 start point.. then a jumb to PES3 and then improve---> result PES6.

and from the sound of it, you didnt even play PES2011. or played few matchs trying to do what you could do in PES6. >>Ronaldinho crossing everybody<<

the only thing that PES6 had over PES2011 is the AI... once they fix that probably PES2012.. PES6 will be dead!(its already dead by many people now).

all im trying to say... calm down... its a game.

 

[roblucci]

I wonder why KONAMI still didn't implement all animation works they did on PES 4 and 5 intro in new PES games?

 

[RAMAXWY]

honestly, i'm not impressed by the PES video at all and if a trailer is usually better then the real thing it doesn't look good.
the FIFA12 videos look must better and promising but then again their presentation is always stunning.
the only reason for me to be optimistic is cause of the things Seabass is saying will be fixed because they are all the things that were missing in PES 2011 atleast most of them cause the animation will still be a problem by the looks of things.

hey i just found this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPMC53TXkCE&feature=player_embedded

the animations here look good and this is gameplay video not a glossed up video.

 

[shaun7]

^Looks alot smoother than pes 11. But I won't get my hopes up until I see more.

Also, if Seabass truly fixes the defender's speed, the attackers slowing down, the attackers not moving enough and the CURSOR then it will be reasonable and would actually be decent enough. But until then, I'll stay in the middle until I see more.

 

[RAMAXWY]

don't get me wrong it doesn't say nothing about the game just that the animations ingame look good.
the demo is the only thing that can answer all our questions concerning the actual gameplay improvements or lack of but it helps to know that the animations won't be hurting our eyes this year.

 

[roblucci]

don't get me wrong it doesn't say nothing about the game just that the animations ingame look good.
the demo is the only thing that can answer all our questions concerning the actual gameplay improvements or lack of but it helps to know that the animations won't be hurting our eyes this year.

not impressed with the video though.I think PES 2012 is just about minor improvement with fixing the gameplay is their main focus.without proper football animation PES will never be close to FIFA in this gen.

 

[RAMAXWY]

did you play PES 2011? did you see the animations?
they were hurting my eyes so the point i am making is that the animations in the video posted above seem much smoother and acceptable. not the video that was shown at E3 because that was dreadfull
it doesn't say much about the improvements in gameplay but the animations look good much better then last years effort.
if you can't see it then you spend less time with PES 2011 then i have and who could blame u.
btw PES is bad but please don't compare it to FIFA because in my opinion FIFA doesn't represent a football simulation at all, just a footballgame to pick up and play for random gamers just like PES 2011 but other then that i don't think the two have much in common.
This year they were clones though, so maybe that's the point your making. Both had glitter and glamour with no substance.
still PES edged it if u asked me.

 

[Amateur]

dude, i aint saying PES2011 is perfect or anything. its the START POINT!.. and now on konami will improve the game year by year just like the PS2 days pes1/2 start point.. then a jumb to PES3 and then improve---> result PES6.

and from the sound of it, you didnt even play PES2011. or played few matchs trying to do what you could do in PES6. >>Ronaldinho crossing everybody<<

the only thing that PES6 had over PES2011 is the AI... once they fix that probably PES2012.. PES6 will be dead!(its already dead by many people now).

all im trying to say... calm down... its a game.

Calm down... it's just a game... what the hell do you mean by that?

I am very calmed. You said that PES11 was the base, therefore you lied because PES11 is not the base. I simply corrected you. There's no need for you to get wound up about somebody correcting a false statement.

And yes I did get to play PES11, the AI is not even the problem as far as I'm concerned, the problem for me is that the video game plays itself without your input, and perfect AI will never fix the fact that the video game is playing itself without your input.... therefore something else must be done in order to improve the gaming experience, because AI improvements will never fix the fact that PES and FIFA are completely insubstantial and void.

I'm not having a go at you for liking PES11. I simply corrected something that you said, because it simply is not true, PES11 is not the base, just saying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPMC53TXkCE&feature=player_embedded

If Seabass wasn't there, I would say that the video game in the background is either FIFA11 or FIFA12.

Honestly. What the fuck. Is the point. Of having two FIFAs in the market?

At least back in the PS2 days you could say that PES was a more serious footy sim; but now, you barely notice any difference between PES and FIFA, and the fact that FIFA is pick up and play, tells you that PES is no longer a serious footy sim.

PES and FIFA are almost identical, incredibly pick up and play with little to no substance underneath all the pretty fluidity. It looks like a fucking fluid ping pong game, that's what it looks like, and that's what it is if truth be told.

Real Football is much more slower and much more tactical, even in this day and age. When you watch a Man Utd vs Chelsea game, it doesn't look like a ping pong game, it is a slow and rather boring game where both sides play on the counter.

I'm very disappointed with the fact that neither Konami nor EA Sports know how to transform the boring yet important aspect of real football into something entertaining and yet substantial in the video game; they just completely ignore the tactical side of the game, and give you a video game that plays itself.

I mean, it is ridiculous that a video game like Super Smash Bros, is more substantial than PES11.

 

[power_25]

Calm down... it's just a game... what the hell do you mean by that?

wow sure... ok i take that back.

I am very calmed. You said that PES11 was the base, therefore you lied because PES11 is not the base. I simply corrected you. There's no need for you to get wound up about somebody correcting a false statement.

why would i lie to you? PES11 is the base. im not saying its a different engine from PES2010. why would i get wound up. im happy about the game, and im trying to make you happy too.

And yes I did get to play PES11, the AI is not even the problem as far as I'm concerned, the problem for me is that the video game plays itself without your input, and perfect AI will never fix the fact that the video game is playing itself without your input.... therefore something else must be done in order to improve the gaming experience, because AI improvements will never fix the fact that PES and FIFA are completely insubstantial and void.

seriously!.. AI is not the problem!?... really?
i agree with the other problem you mentioned. and thats why i said PES11 is a base for the future PES. its the same engine as PES2010 but the way it plays is different from other PESs. PES2011 is still unfinished, there are many things that have to be done, and cant be done in one year. KOnami finally are moving in the right direction, so we better help instead of hating.
...
btw PES12 doesnt look like FIFA. i dont know what are you saying.

 

[Amateur]

why would i lie to you? PES11 is the base. im not saying its a different engine from PES2010. why would i get wound up. im happy about the game, and im trying to make you happy too.

Why would you lie to me? Well that's a good point, perhaps the word "lied" is not adequate, but certainly what you said was a false statement, PES11 is not the base because PES11 is based on PES10, which, if anything, would make PES10 the base.

As for being happy about a video game. I see it very simply, either you are happy about it or you're not, and you will not make me happy about it, because I do not like it.

Again. I'm not criticizing your opinion. I'm not trying to make you hate the game. I'm just criticizing the game. That is all.

seriously!.. AI is not the problem!?... really?
i agree with the other problem you mentioned. and thats why i said PES11 is a base for the future PES. its the same engine as PES2010 but the way it plays is different from other PESs.

No it doesn't. It plays just like PES10, but with some insignificant changes to make the execution that bit more pleasurable. It's not different, it's the same old game. PES10 and PES11 fundamentally play the same exact way, same old formula, with new fluid animations, it's not different, it just looks different, that's all.

AI is very seriously not the problem. The problem is how the game plays, the buttons that you use, what the buttons that you use do, what you can do when you are defending, it's fucking boring. The game needs to be smarter, not the AI.

What difference does it make to have smart AI implemented into a dumb video game? It's the same thing. The game plays the same way with or without smart AI. Therefore the AI is not the fucking problem, the problem is much more fundamental than the AI.

PES12 will prove the point I'm trying to make. You will have smarter AI, but people will still have something to complain about -- "it's too easy to score goals now, it feels too much like FIFA now" -- because PES12 will be PES11 with better AI, and better AI will not make the game fun to play, because the game is fucking boring with or without smart AI.

PES6 was fun to play. That was four or five years ago. Times change. That same shit is not fun anymore. That's why PES11 is not that fun to play even though it is better than PES6. That same old shit doesn't cut it anymore.

Mortal Kombat 9 is a very fine remake of the old Mortal Kombat games, because like the old MK games, it is based on the d-pad, it is just as responsive and just as playable as the old MK games.

Pro Evolution Soccer 2011 is an embarrassing remake of the now legendary PS2 versions of PES, because unlike the old PS2 versions of PES, it is not based on the eight directional d-pad, it is unresponsive, it is a fluid video game with no edge to it; it is dumbed down, unresponsive, dumb as fuck, but apparently the fluidity makes a lot of people happy with it.

Mortal Kombat 9 is a good remake because it conserved the playability and responsiveness. On the other hand, Pro Evolution Soccer 2011 is a shitty remake, because it tried to make PES6 an unresponsive, analog based, dumbed down, fluid game.

People will talk about PES going down hill on the PS3, because Konami made the wrong decisions, because Konami continue making all the wrong decisions; because Konami did not knew how to make a current gen version of PES6, and now, Konami is merely copying FIFA.

I don't know if you consider that "the right direction", but as far as I'm concerned, being the copy cat as opposed to the innovator, is not the right direction.

PES2011 is still unfinished, there are many things that have to be done, and cant be done in one year. KOnami finally are moving in the right direction, so we better help instead of hating.
...
btw PES12 doesnt look like FIFA. i dont know what are you saying.

Can you please explain what the fuck is the right direction?

I'm not trying to hate. I'm just being realistic. PES11 is incredibly overrated, it shows no promise, it's the same fucking thing that fans started saying about FIFA09, and look at FIFA11, more of the same shit.

Konami is not going in the right direction. Konami is merely copying FIFA, and trying to make the execution of PES that bit more difficult than FIFA's, so that people believe that PES is a more serious footy sim when in fact it's more or less the same pick up and play video game.

And by the way, PES11 and PES12 do look a lot like FIFA, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[shaun7]

I have played fifa 11 and tbh, that pes 12 video looks nothing like fifa 11. In fifa 11 it was an all round strength test with players tackling everyone.

And the AI is part of the problem with pes 11.
However, the cursor, defenders catching up and attackers barley moving are 3 things which would make pes 12 good if they're fixed.
Also more user input because sometimes the game does it for you and I hate that.

 

[Amateur]

I have played fifa 11 and tbh, that pes 12 video looks nothing like fifa 11. In fifa 11 it was an all round strength test with players tackling everyone.

I do not see any difference at all. All I see, is a bunch of dudes running from side to side like headless chickens, which is what FIFA11 looks like to me, and which is how PES12 looks like to me. More or less the same ping pong game, with some trivial differences here and there, looks like the same exact shit to me.

And the AI is part of the problem with pes 11.
However, the cursor, defenders catching up and attackers barley moving are 3 things which would make pes 12 good if they're fixed.
Also more user input because sometimes the game does it for you and I hate that.

I do not think the AI is part of the problem, because I think the problem is that PES11 is a shitty remake of older versions of PES, and as a remake, it is a massive failure.


MORE USER INPUT.


That is the real problem. Is Konami doing anything about it? No. Konami is improving the AI so that it is easier to score goals.

If you completely ignore the factor of time, PES11 is not bad, and PES12 will not be bad. But in truth, it's just underwhelming how people are satisfied by sub-par remakes.

If you change the game from d-pad to analog, you might as well change the whole fucking thing; but no, no, no, EA Sports and Konami just want to bolt the left analog stick to an ancient d-pad game. Improved or "refined" AI will do nothing to change the fact that PES12 is a shitty remake of a once good franchise.

And the worst thing about it is, that it isn't really difficult to completely change how the game plays. You could have the same exact animations but change how the game plays. But Konami and EA Sports seem very pleased with themselves, knowing that nobody else will make them look bad.

I would be genuinely glad if a third competitor came from the middle of nowhere, and exposed PES and FIFA for what they really are: shitty remakes produced by people whom are happy selling cheap updates on a yearly basis.

 

[shaun7]

I do not see any difference at all. All I see, is a bunch of dudes running from side to side like headless chickens, which is what FIFA11 looks like to me, and which is how PES12 looks like to me. More or less the same ping pong game, with some trivial differences here and there, looks like the same exact shit to me.

They're still very different. Believe me, I am not saying it looks awesome or anything like that, but they're still different. Pes 12 looks nothing like fifa 12, maybe from your aspect of headless chickens, maybe, but apart from that, they's not alike.

Fifa 11 is all based around strength and battles of strength with no close control individuality and many 1 vs 1's. That's fifa's downfall.

Pes' downfall in 11 were many things like animations, defenders catching up, attackers not in position and not moving, attackers slowing down because the game wants to, CURSOR switching and USER INPUT which was small in value.

Pes doesn't have fifa's flaws so they can't be the same.

If pes nails the user input, it would be much, much better.

Also, Seabss (not that I believe him), isn't focusing on AI only btw. He said that the cursor will be fixed FINALLY and the animations will be smoother and the game would respond better to your controls.
I hope he delivers what he says he'll improve because those are key areas.

 

[power_25]

Konami is not going in the right direction.

then what should KONAMI do so that PES can be in the right direction?
inlighten us please!

Konami is merely copying FIFA, and trying to make the execution of PES that bit more difficult than FIFA's, so that people believe that PES is a more serious footy sim when in fact it's more or less the same pick up and play video game.

thats like comparing crysis2(complicated gameplay) to COD(linear gameplay) and saying Crysis 2 copying COD but making gameplay bit more difficult!.
whats the problem with that ? PES was always like that? i mean after all
they are both football games.

And by the way, PES11 and PES12 do look a lot like FIFA, as far as I'm concerned.

if i were seabass, ill make sure next time ill show messi with a submachine gun so that the game will look different.

i got both games and i can tell that they are nothing alike. they look different, they play different. what are you talking about man?

PES2011 could be far from real life football, but there is no doubt that its the closest game to real life. so...