Hey guys Pro evo 2012 cheating AI.
- Thread starter MrClub
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Sminky
Registered User
Sure they are. They're not made by Konami.
fick
Registered User
Skyrim was even better than anticipated, to name but one.
If anything, the PC users have monopolised the genre for too long with their weird ways in darkened rooms, involving strange shaped dice and doubtless packets of spot cream.
Amateur
Registered User
If refer you to part of my previous comment:
"If you have managed to squeeze some sort of enjoyment out of this turd of a game good luck to you. Each to their own and all that...."
Perhaps you should adopt a similar attitude to people's opinions rather than trying to be clever? You like the game, I can live with that. I think the game is crap, can you live with that without trying to be a smartarse? At no point in my post did I refer to you directly or insult you so perhaps you should ask yourself why you felt the need to ridicule my opinion? I think the tone of my post is a tad more polite than your "PES is great and anyone who disagrees is an idiot/noob/virgin" shite.
Same old story with PES these days unfortunately, the game comes out and people on forums rave about it endlessly and shout down anyone who can see the flaws quicker than they can. Then, a couple of months before the new game is due out, light dawns on them and they start to admit to noticing more and more of the flaws that certain other people noticed months ago.
Then Konami themselves come out with an admittance that the last game probably wasn't all that great but dont worry because it will be fixed THIS time. Cue every PES player rushing to pre-order the game or snap it up on release day. Hence the cycle of crap PES games continues.
All I'm saying is I've fallen for it one too many times and that I believe Konami have not put the effort or finance required into this generation of PES games. They are treating their extremely loyal fanbase with utter contempt. FIFA is destroying them in a 2 horse race and it's certainly no great shakes either. I think Konami have all but given up on this generation of tech but they still want my £40 come October dont they?
Say what you like Sab but more and more people are starting to wake up to the fact that PES simply is not good enough. You may not think so but it's actually a good thing because it might, just might, make Konami pull their heads out of their arse and give us a decent football game for our money.
Fully agree with the main sentiment of your last two posts, I mostly blame the hybrid d-pad/analog technique (conveniently yet falsely marketed as "manual" passing) which both EA Sports and Konami have used throughout the PS3's lifespan: I mean, d-pad can be hardcore if you remain a d-pad game, and analog can be amazing if you actually make proper use of the analog, but what Konami and EA Sports have done, is they have merely added more directions to the old and tested d-pad system by transforming the left analog stick into a 360 degree d-pad, and unfortunately it never worked, the flaws that a fundamentally broken hybrid system created, soundly overwhelmed whatever little positives the new hybrid system had created. PES5 and PES6, although technically inferior, were better video games due to extremely logical reasons.
Though having said that, I do think that PES will be good again, as soon as the d-pad/analog turd is scrapped, and they go full analog. Which, of course, will not happen until the PS4 comes out.
Furthermore, I think a third party should enter the battle zone as soon as the PS4 comes out, it's the perfect time. PES and FIFA both focus on offering a complete package, I think a third party could produce the Mortal Kombat of footy sims, that is, a footy sim that focuses only on the best players of the last 30 years, a footy sim that revolves around the same "character select" dynamic of Mortal Kombat, a footy sim that revolves around just one playing mode, and due to the lack of other playing modes, the producers can focus their whole energy on the things that really matter: player individuality, core gameplay, animations, and graphics. I think it would be a tremendous success, though unfortunately no one in the business is making any noise.
One thing I am liking about 1.06 is that I have to work to score and when I do it feels good. Also I have to work to not get scored on and when I shut down the CPU it feels good.
The ea game the CPU seems to have just one way to score and if you shut it down they don't score.
Pes is throwing the kitchen sink at me CPU ai scoring-wise and I dig it. Does it cheat? Hell yes. But they have hit me over the top, they have brought it up the wings, they have held up play and tried to match me man to man in my end, they cycle the ball from side to side and hit through balls.
Same kind of stuff I throw at the CPU and to me that makes this game one of the more challenging football games I have played and I have played a ton of them. Every Fifa made, swos, almost all pes' but I begged off those games from 09 to 11. One I can't recall the name of was on the sega master system back in like 92? It had "obscure" euro teams like metallurgs, steau Bucharest, pilzen, etc. swos had them but this game had larger players. Have no clue what it was called.
Anyway whatever. The challenge in ea's game feels cheap to me and while pes may be cheap at times too it disguises it by at least giving me the business in varied ways.
Since we only really have these two games now pes is my friend.
When pes ramps it up and starts going berserk on me it feels really good to hold the play up and retain possession grinding against the way it tries to force me to make errors by suddenly making me horrible at passing or shooting. You can very much in my experiences with this game "turn the tide" and fuck the CPU right back.
The fun outweighs the frustration for now.
The ea game the CPU seems to have just one way to score and if you shut it down they don't score.
Pes is throwing the kitchen sink at me CPU ai scoring-wise and I dig it. Does it cheat? Hell yes. But they have hit me over the top, they have brought it up the wings, they have held up play and tried to match me man to man in my end, they cycle the ball from side to side and hit through balls.
Same kind of stuff I throw at the CPU and to me that makes this game one of the more challenging football games I have played and I have played a ton of them. Every Fifa made, swos, almost all pes' but I begged off those games from 09 to 11. One I can't recall the name of was on the sega master system back in like 92? It had "obscure" euro teams like metallurgs, steau Bucharest, pilzen, etc. swos had them but this game had larger players. Have no clue what it was called.
Anyway whatever. The challenge in ea's game feels cheap to me and while pes may be cheap at times too it disguises it by at least giving me the business in varied ways.
Since we only really have these two games now pes is my friend.
When pes ramps it up and starts going berserk on me it feels really good to hold the play up and retain possession grinding against the way it tries to force me to make errors by suddenly making me horrible at passing or shooting. You can very much in my experiences with this game "turn the tide" and fuck the CPU right back.
The fun outweighs the frustration for now.
Sabatasso
Banned
What's good about it?
My expectations about Skyrim was low, and after the first hour of playing I realized that the game could only be average with extensive modding.
The storyline is poor
The encounter difficulty is fucked up
The combat system is out of date by 15 years
The graphics is good at first glance, but lazy texture work all over the place
The script engine is poor
So, what kind of expectations did you really have? None?
fick
Registered User
Either you expect too much, or the personality bypass failed. I'm guessing the latter.
Sabatasso
Banned
I think you have no clue about games, and are satisfied with basically anything you get served.
Agree completely with both of these posts. This game is simply a disgrace to football. Further, the devs have absolutely no clue how to fix it (or even make it believable).
Same fundamental problems in 08 ARE STILL HERE! More silly features and half-ass attempts to cover the flaws are on the way.
Doesn't matter, Ronaldo and his new dribbling animations should be enough to sell the game.
P.S. Amateur: I agree, a new company (or 3) needs to come in with something new.
:laugh:
THIS from a guy who thinks PES 2012, one of the most hotly anticipated titles of ANY year by it's fans, is a decent game!
Tell me something Sab, is the PES 2012 game you currently play the straight out of the box version? Or is it some bastardised modded PC version that some poor bugger has spent weeks editing to make it slightly more realistic in terms of kits, player names, player appearances, player stats, team line ups, team tactics.......etc...etc...etc.
I'm pretty sure it's the latter isn't it? In fact I'm pretty sure hardly anyone plays the game the way Konami actually made it. Why? Because the game they sell us for £40 is half arsed garbage compared to what the hard working modding community eventually turn it into. Without them PES would be even further into the crapper than it already is! Unfortunately for Konami, not even the fantastic PES modding community can fix their broken code so the game remains a joke.
My point is I find it ironic that a lot of the people who praise PES 2012 are probably playing a version of the game that bears very little resemblance to the game Konami sold them.
Sabatasso
Banned
I never said it was "Great", I said it was the best PES. I never said PES was great in its own right, and I specifically said what I did to make it bearable to play. Just because I don't agree with your every whines about the game, does not make me love it. But I guess you like to assume all sorts of things...
I thought PES5 was great when it was new, and it probably was in some way. But playing it now, I realize it has exactly the same flaws as PES12. PES6 is worse than PES12, and PES2009 is probably the last truly enjoyable PES version but it has so many other issues not related to AI cheating.
PES beats FIFA easily in almost every aspect, but football games are the worst sort of sports games available. There are american football games from the late 90's and early 00's that are much better in technical details and gameplay than both FIFA and PES are today. Anything EA related aren't worth playing, though, regardless of sports genre, but there are several other games that gives you a "wow, why don't any footy games implement some of this" feeling.
Footy games of past and present are simplistic "man against man" versions of a game that is mainly a team game. Until a decent tactical engine is made, where players move sensible and according to opposition, there will be no good football games.
I thought PES5 was great when it was new, and it probably was in some way. But playing it now, I realize it has exactly the same flaws as PES12. PES6 is worse than PES12, and PES2009 is probably the last truly enjoyable PES version but it has so many other issues not related to AI cheating.
PES beats FIFA easily in almost every aspect, but football games are the worst sort of sports games available. There are american football games from the late 90's and early 00's that are much better in technical details and gameplay than both FIFA and PES are today. Anything EA related aren't worth playing, though, regardless of sports genre, but there are several other games that gives you a "wow, why don't any footy games implement some of this" feeling.
Footy games of past and present are simplistic "man against man" versions of a game that is mainly a team game. Until a decent tactical engine is made, where players move sensible and according to opposition, there will be no good football games.
Wewillgreetu
Registered User
Definetly agree with some parts of this particulary the DLC. First you pay 40 pound for the game and then you have all the DLC which of course is optional but as you say is already there. I wonder when PES will jump on the bandwagon and start releasing premium DLC? I mean they release patches which have new footballs and boots why couldn't they start releasing this as premium content? I tell you it will come, FIFA I know already have premium content and I am certain PES will follow suit.
There seems to be problem after problem with PES every year. Of course there are always going to be problems with the game nothing can be perfect. These are big problems though and it is every year like you say. I never complained about PES in the PS2 days. I was always happy with the release I got every year. Then along came the new generation of consoles and the series was ruined. I bought PES 2008 thinking this will be good, after its brilliant predecessor PES6 but it lasted a couple of hours before I sold it on. After that I have been in and out of the series. I bought PES 2012 after being bought with all the talk about it. Nothing has really been improved since PES 2011.
PES 2013? I think I will give that a miss. I watched the trailer of Ronaldo dribbling and that was that. I have lost interest in this series. I suppose all good things come to an end. Only it seems with PES that was like 5-6 years ago.
Guys, I just had to say this. PES 2012 is easy as hell! Goal scoring is easy, super star is easy, freekicks are easy ( not every time ). I went on a winning streak for more than 150 matches. Top goals against superstar is 9-1. thats FCB vs RMD. Longest freekick is like 35m. So I just dont get what all this complain is about. The only problem I have is the goalie rushing out crap.. sad bad bearable.... NOT!!
To Sabataso and Konami inc.
first of all, WTF happend to konami? I bealive that PES is and was the game of footie games or even more. I still remember the games played od first sony and the Sony ps 2. I can still vividly recall the some games I've played and remember the scores and Highligts. I could not wait until the realese date of another coming out. The reason I bought Sony Ps3 was becouse I wanna play the next gen game of PES and that's it..
Since the 2009 PES the 2008 was enyojable but still there was something lacking like "touch for the game" and in 2009 everthing went out the window.. I don't know what are they doing in that lab room of theirs , but sure aint producing the quality soo called next gen sim. Craney 91 I FEEL YOU ALL THE WAY.. When I remember PES 5 or 6 or any before 2009 I could feel the game, I could smell the grass and the passing of my teammates. It was like having an orgasm when you played. When you pressed the button it feelt right, right?
All the gliches aside, the is not the footie No.1, It was 9.5 9.6 or even 9.9 depends of the sequel.
I have decided after catastrofic 2011 PES which actually made me go insane after two games not to buy 2012. And if I'm honest it was worth it.
All I read is , computer that and this or AI this and that it remined me that I was right not to buy..HER IS MY MIDDLE FNGER TO YOU KONAMI!!! I'm not buying a crap game. Like I said, before i wopuld spend a 100 € on the game and I love it now, I'm not spending a 60€ on the rubbish..Is there an act where you can sue the Konami for the game release of an awareness that the game is a flaw?
Don't get me wrong, I love PES games or loved it, but now there is a mockery going on and they are not getting my money..And the worst part is on the offical page or forum ther isn't topic about AI cheating....I said enogh..
I'll continue after I pick up my kids from kindrgarden...
first of all, WTF happend to konami? I bealive that PES is and was the game of footie games or even more. I still remember the games played od first sony and the Sony ps 2. I can still vividly recall the some games I've played and remember the scores and Highligts. I could not wait until the realese date of another coming out. The reason I bought Sony Ps3 was becouse I wanna play the next gen game of PES and that's it..
Since the 2009 PES the 2008 was enyojable but still there was something lacking like "touch for the game" and in 2009 everthing went out the window.. I don't know what are they doing in that lab room of theirs , but sure aint producing the quality soo called next gen sim. Craney 91 I FEEL YOU ALL THE WAY.. When I remember PES 5 or 6 or any before 2009 I could feel the game, I could smell the grass and the passing of my teammates. It was like having an orgasm when you played. When you pressed the button it feelt right, right?
All the gliches aside, the is not the footie No.1, It was 9.5 9.6 or even 9.9 depends of the sequel.
I have decided after catastrofic 2011 PES which actually made me go insane after two games not to buy 2012. And if I'm honest it was worth it.
All I read is , computer that and this or AI this and that it remined me that I was right not to buy..HER IS MY MIDDLE FNGER TO YOU KONAMI!!! I'm not buying a crap game. Like I said, before i wopuld spend a 100 € on the game and I love it now, I'm not spending a 60€ on the rubbish..Is there an act where you can sue the Konami for the game release of an awareness that the game is a flaw?
Don't get me wrong, I love PES games or loved it, but now there is a mockery going on and they are not getting my money..And the worst part is on the offical page or forum ther isn't topic about AI cheating....I said enogh..
I'll continue after I pick up my kids from kindrgarden...
There are many very good points in this thread.
The main thing to me though is this;
There are really just two current football games. PES and FIFA.
FIFA has all the glitter and PES tries hard to be more of a simulation of the sport with your AI players behaving better than FIFA's (just see any action around the goal for the immediate obvious difference) with the CPU putting up more of a fight than FIFA's and with the unusual places the ball will end up. There is more "freedom" except when you are shooting. That is bizarre.
I have both games and still play them both. But see, something like this just drives me nuts...I play PES last night as Man Utd against Gronigen. I dominate as I should and win 2-0. Gronigen had 4 shots to my 13. Possession was close to equal at 56-44 Man U. Gronigen came close to scoring from outside the box but De Gea parry'd it over the bar.
I pop in FIFA 12 and play the exact same matchup. I win again 2-0 but this time Gronigen has 0 shots. None. No shots. But they have 85% of the possession and completed 88% of their passes. The best bits where when Gronigen helplessly cycled the ball from side to side around the 70 minute mark until they accidentally kicked it out of bounds. There was absolutely no urgency and no threat. Again, 0 shots.
So there is the problem right there. FIFA is better when you play it head to head with a human but against the CPU it's terrible.
PES has many flaws but when the CPU brings the ball towards my goal I do feel that they might score. It may be cheap and it might piss me off how they do it but at least they put up some sort of a fight.
It truly is sad that these are our two options for football games in 2012.
The main thing to me though is this;
There are really just two current football games. PES and FIFA.
FIFA has all the glitter and PES tries hard to be more of a simulation of the sport with your AI players behaving better than FIFA's (just see any action around the goal for the immediate obvious difference) with the CPU putting up more of a fight than FIFA's and with the unusual places the ball will end up. There is more "freedom" except when you are shooting. That is bizarre.
I have both games and still play them both. But see, something like this just drives me nuts...I play PES last night as Man Utd against Gronigen. I dominate as I should and win 2-0. Gronigen had 4 shots to my 13. Possession was close to equal at 56-44 Man U. Gronigen came close to scoring from outside the box but De Gea parry'd it over the bar.
I pop in FIFA 12 and play the exact same matchup. I win again 2-0 but this time Gronigen has 0 shots. None. No shots. But they have 85% of the possession and completed 88% of their passes. The best bits where when Gronigen helplessly cycled the ball from side to side around the 70 minute mark until they accidentally kicked it out of bounds. There was absolutely no urgency and no threat. Again, 0 shots.
So there is the problem right there. FIFA is better when you play it head to head with a human but against the CPU it's terrible.
PES has many flaws but when the CPU brings the ball towards my goal I do feel that they might score. It may be cheap and it might piss me off how they do it but at least they put up some sort of a fight.
It truly is sad that these are our two options for football games in 2012.
Wewillgreetu
Registered User
This is the reality we face sadly. There are no other alternatives out there at the minute. Is there a gap in the market for someone to have a go? I wouldn't think so, I imagine pro evo and FIFA have all the licenses. This is probably the biggest stumbling block. Our only option right now is to hope these games improve. I won't hold my breath for that.
I play a lot of PES 2012. An unhealthy amount. And because of connection issues,
I only play against the computer AI.
And yeah, it's a piece of crap. I can enjoy playing and I keep going against the AI opponent like ramming my head into a wall and when I dislodge a brick, that's the reward.
I've actually been mostly successful, because I figured out some formations and strategies that can rob the AI of its advantages a little. Needless to say, some of these are very unconventional, like playing with two center mids and two attacking mids, with no wingers.
My advice? Do everything as manually as possible. It's not just that the game nerfs the human players, but their passing, shooting, even movement, becomes unpredictable. Case in point, was just playing against Chelsea with Leicester City. I had a perfect opportunity - a forward unmarked in space just meters in front of the goal and a midfielder in possession just outside the box who had just beaten his marker to the ball. All that was needed was a simple short pass and the forward would have space and time to put that ball anywhere he desired. So I press the short pass button. But instead of a simple short pass, the midfielder knocks the ball forward with so little energy and power - a slow roller that would've stopped on its own well short of my forward even if the defender hadn't come in to claim the ball for its own. I couldn't believe it - I thought perhaps I'd just given the command to knock the ball on instead of passing. But no, I'd clearly pressed the pass button, and my midfielder had apparently been struck with a sudden palsy rendering his legs useless except to poke the ball forward slightly with his big toe.
So yeah, don't trust the team AI for anything. The least intuitive AI I've ever seen. And watch out on loose balls - you need to cancel and chase that ball yourself, because your team AI will often ignore them completely. I've given up countless goals because my defenders let a loose ball casually roll into the box.
And don't play on Top Player - fuckin' impossible against the overpowered teams. Superstar is better. I actually thought Professional was a little too easy. Of course, none of my players can score a long-distance goal in Superstar, so I dunno what's going on.
I only play against the computer AI.
And yeah, it's a piece of crap. I can enjoy playing and I keep going against the AI opponent like ramming my head into a wall and when I dislodge a brick, that's the reward.
I've actually been mostly successful, because I figured out some formations and strategies that can rob the AI of its advantages a little. Needless to say, some of these are very unconventional, like playing with two center mids and two attacking mids, with no wingers.
My advice? Do everything as manually as possible. It's not just that the game nerfs the human players, but their passing, shooting, even movement, becomes unpredictable. Case in point, was just playing against Chelsea with Leicester City. I had a perfect opportunity - a forward unmarked in space just meters in front of the goal and a midfielder in possession just outside the box who had just beaten his marker to the ball. All that was needed was a simple short pass and the forward would have space and time to put that ball anywhere he desired. So I press the short pass button. But instead of a simple short pass, the midfielder knocks the ball forward with so little energy and power - a slow roller that would've stopped on its own well short of my forward even if the defender hadn't come in to claim the ball for its own. I couldn't believe it - I thought perhaps I'd just given the command to knock the ball on instead of passing. But no, I'd clearly pressed the pass button, and my midfielder had apparently been struck with a sudden palsy rendering his legs useless except to poke the ball forward slightly with his big toe.
So yeah, don't trust the team AI for anything. The least intuitive AI I've ever seen. And watch out on loose balls - you need to cancel and chase that ball yourself, because your team AI will often ignore them completely. I've given up countless goals because my defenders let a loose ball casually roll into the box.
And don't play on Top Player - fuckin' impossible against the overpowered teams. Superstar is better. I actually thought Professional was a little too easy. Of course, none of my players can score a long-distance goal in Superstar, so I dunno what's going on.
zizou4ever
Registered User
I think the worse PES edition regarding the AI cheating was PES 2008. Man, that was terrible. It was extremely difficult to keep a clean sheet. And it was not because the AI was good, but because of cheating.
For me, the number 2 in AI cheating was PES 2012. Or at least it is more obvious.
I read in another PES website something like "do you prefer better animations or better gameplay?". IMHO, the point is that, with the current generation (PS3, XBOX, PC), we should have both!! That's not a matter of choice.
Using the same argument for cheating AI, with the current consoles, the AI should be smart enough to be good without any cheating. I cannot understand why they still insist with this kind of programing.
For me, the number 2 in AI cheating was PES 2012. Or at least it is more obvious.
I read in another PES website something like "do you prefer better animations or better gameplay?". IMHO, the point is that, with the current generation (PS3, XBOX, PC), we should have both!! That's not a matter of choice.
Using the same argument for cheating AI, with the current consoles, the AI should be smart enough to be good without any cheating. I cannot understand why they still insist with this kind of programing.
Computer games in general have gone downhill, like most things, the developers focus is on premium DLC amongst other things, other than the games themselves. Microsoft finally gave me the push to do something about it, I unplugged the console and put it back in its box. Where it has been sat ever since, a month now I think. Maybe a couple.
I contemplated selling all the stuff I've got, but when I look at it, would I really want to put it all on somebody else to experience the same, all because of getting some money back for myself?
I'd rather destroy it all if I'm honest.
I wont go into the reasons why, it will take me all day, but basically Microsoft f*cked me over and are a total disgrace. I don't play games anymore, they are atrocious, and all the fanboys in the world get majorly f*cking butt-hurt when anybody comes out and says it how it is! How pathetic! WAKE UP!
I have spent thousands of pounds on this habit (thats how I look at it) and all of it has gone to waste in the end.
Games TODAY are poorly made, rushed and full of bugs, they're not prepared to do anything about it, because they are making money from zombies who will keep buying, keep their mouths shut, regardless of all the problems.
I occasionally get the urge to play games, but I just think of all the BS I was seeing whilst playing the games, not just Pro Evo, but most games, FIFA, MW3 etc etc etc
Its enough for me to kill the urge.
No more money from me, no more constructive criticism, no more scrounging on forums trying to get answers from developers, shove your products and agendas up your arse!
It's time to take the power back!
I contemplated selling all the stuff I've got, but when I look at it, would I really want to put it all on somebody else to experience the same, all because of getting some money back for myself?
I'd rather destroy it all if I'm honest.
I wont go into the reasons why, it will take me all day, but basically Microsoft f*cked me over and are a total disgrace. I don't play games anymore, they are atrocious, and all the fanboys in the world get majorly f*cking butt-hurt when anybody comes out and says it how it is! How pathetic! WAKE UP!
I have spent thousands of pounds on this habit (thats how I look at it) and all of it has gone to waste in the end.
Games TODAY are poorly made, rushed and full of bugs, they're not prepared to do anything about it, because they are making money from zombies who will keep buying, keep their mouths shut, regardless of all the problems.
I occasionally get the urge to play games, but I just think of all the BS I was seeing whilst playing the games, not just Pro Evo, but most games, FIFA, MW3 etc etc etc
Its enough for me to kill the urge.
No more money from me, no more constructive criticism, no more scrounging on forums trying to get answers from developers, shove your products and agendas up your arse!
It's time to take the power back!
heerenveen6
Registered User
I feel a little better after reading this. I thought it was just me pointing out stupid flaws in any game on next-gen consoles. I had a PS2 until March, with something like 30 games. I'm not a hardcore gamer, there were just so many fucking awesome games on PS2. Well made, well thought out and very playable. Even years after they were released. But I invested in a 360 in March, and had to sell my PS2 + the games to help pay for the 360. Easily the worst decision I could have ever made (apart from growing my hair long). These games are so dull, and they're not fun. Being a non-gamer, I only really play games for fun. None of this dual-screen, dark room, tissue box, skyrim stuff. It's a shame today they only make games for the money, and not for the user.