is the AI cheating?

[imothop]

No no.... it cheats.... believe me. When you can spot a goal coming before they even cross the half way line, it's cheating.. not good play.

I have to see it by myself but until now i don't feel cheated a lot. If you look at my game against Real http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkiuUfkHgRQ

you see that Özil scored the 1-1. But it was my fault because i let Ronaldo run down the line instead of tackling him. The rest was just a very good play from Madrid.

 

[Ali]

I have to see it by myself but until now i don't feel cheated a lot. If you look at my game against Real http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkiuUfkHgRQ

you see that Özil scored the 1-1. But it was my fault because i let Ronaldo run down the line instead of tackling him. The rest was just a very good play from Madrid.

I can't really see much wrong with that goal, but it's hard to tell. If I was actually playing it, I'd get a better understanding. I mean, it looks like you let Ronaldo down the line, but it could have been that the game prevented you from challenging him by moving your defender out of the way (as it often does). I mean, I had an incident the other day where my defender literally moved 2 steps to the right, away from the striker, just before a through ball was played, which resulted in a goal. It was something so blatant and obvious, no defender (well... apart from Zat Knight perhaps) would have done that in real life.

I've played PES since ISS days, I've gotten pretty good at telling when I'm gonna concede a goal, I've said this many times. I find that I'm actually looking for the cheating, so my enjoyment of the game is hampered because of this.

 

[imothop]

I can't really see much wrong with that goal, but it's hard to tell. If I was actually playing it, I'd get a better understanding. I mean, it looks like you let Ronaldo down the line, but it could have been that the game prevented you from challenging him by moving your defender out of the way (as it often does).

That wasn't the case. I remember that i was just unsure about trying to tackle him with r1 + x or slidetackle the ball by pressing 0. I did nothing and payed for it.

I mean, I had an incident the other day where my defender literally moved 2 steps to the right, away from the striker, just before a through ball was played, which resulted in a goal. It was something so blatant and obvious, no defender (well... apart from Zat Knight perhaps) would have done that in real life.

I've played PES since ISS days, I've gotten pretty good at telling when I'm gonna concede a goal, I've said this many times. I find that I'm actually looking for the cheating, so my enjoyment of the game is hampered because of this.

That's kind of sad really. You will find reasons for cheating everywhere if you looking for it. Every goal is questionable because almost every time a goal is scored somewhere a mistake was made. It's the nature of the game.

Look, yesterday i played a game with Benfica against Barca. At halftime Barca had 12 shots, i got 2. In the second half they stay dominant the hole time. At the end of the game they had 21 shots, i got 3. I scored the game winning goal at minute 89 and manage to win 1-2. I dont deserve it at all and if you could ask the AI i bet they would say im a cheater.

You may look at my game against FC Twente.

First half http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odCvB5-hTfs
Second half http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoyVjcqUY24

I win 3-1 and they answered my 1-0 with a quick goal. You may say they cheat it, but from my point of view it was my unlucky slidetackle (i didnt time it perfectly) that was the main reason they finally scored. Of course i lost the header, but is that already cheating? For me it is part of this sport. Sometimes your opponent wins the header even if you are doing everything right.

I do think that sometimes the AI is in favor just to make it a spectacular , close, thrilling game. They try to at least. But i dont think it happen all the time and i dont think it is very unfair. Most of the time you can fight it and change things back to your favor.

I played FIFA too and that is an unfair AI. Oh Boy. They sometimes know what you are going to do next even before you know it PES AI tries to give you a good game and it has to. Otherwise it would be boring. But it is not unfair because you are able to react and change momentum back. That is how i see it.

 

[baangus]

But it is not unfair because you are able to react and change momentum back.

Take another look at this obviously scripted, CPU cheat goal, and then please tell me how the user is supposed to react to:

1. His CPU-controlled defenders RUNNING AWAY FROM the play
2. His CPU-controlled GK DIVING IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION of the shot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fasxaiw2Cjg

 

[Ali]

@imothop

I don't try and put every AI goal down to scripting. I don't make excuses like that. But I know when I have been scripted against. Likewise, I know when the scripting has gone in my favour, and believe me.... it does. A basic example of classic PES scripting, is when the other team scores exactly after you do. Yes, they do say in real life that this is a prime time for the opposition to score, because you're concentration has dropped. But this happens way too many times in PES games.

Sometimes it's hard to explain the scripting to someone who doesn't believe there is much/any. But trust me, once it "clicks" it's hard not to notice. I truly wish it hadn't clicked, but it has. I'm a rational gamer. If I'm beaten fairly at the game, then fair do's.

I think the scriting has increased this game to make games more balanced. PES 2011 was too easy, so I reckon KONAMI upped the scripting to try and make the scorelines more realistic.

What console do you play on?

 

[imothop]

@baangus
Unfortunately GK aren't very good in this game. Ok at best and i don't think this goal happen because the GK was in Cheating-Mode. It happen because GK are what they are.

As for the running away thing you mention. I believe this happen all the time automatically. I see it a thousand time that cpu controlled players are changing directions without a reason.

For me it helps if player assistance is set to off (everything you can choose should set to off) and pressing slider is set to 0.

 

[stingo]

There is no scripting. Yes, dynamics of the match often changes so AI becomes very strong and hard to stop, but I will tell it is possible to prevent it from scoring. If you player runs away from attacker sometimes it is because your team AI is not that smart at times and this is exactly why RT+x helps to get things under control. It is much better in this version of Pes because you do have some control. And yes it is unbearably hard at times so creates this perception of scripting, but do you want to win every game? Those complainers either play a level too high or/and have no clue how to defend. Just hold RT+X,A when needed and plan with which player to pressure, prevent wingers from crosses. It works! I had many "scripted" matches where I would break down the AI by allowing to score only 1 goal and make a come back win in the end.

 

[imothop]

@imothop

I don't try and put every AI goal down to scripting. I don't make excuses like that. But I know when I have been scripted against. Likewise, I know when the scripting has gone in my favour, and believe me.... it does. A basic example of classic PES scripting, is when the other team scores exactly after you do. Yes, they do say in real life that this is a prime time for the opposition to score, because you're concentration has dropped. But this happens way too many times in PES games.

Sometimes it's hard to explain the scripting to someone who doesn't believe there is much/any. But trust me, once it "clicks" it's hard not to notice. I truly wish it hadn't clicked, but it has. I'm a rational gamer. If I'm beaten fairly at the game, then fair do's.

I think the scriting has increased this game to make games more balanced. PES 2011 was too easy, so I reckon KONAMI upped the scripting to try and make the scorelines more realistic.

What console do you play on?

I play on PS3 and i know what you mean. I believe there is a thing that you may could call "cheating" in some ways. You have a point here and im not going to say you are totally wrong or it doesn't exist at all.

I guess i just have a different look at it then you have. If you want a good game and not a very boring one they need to give the AI some favor here an there. Otherwise you would win every game easily. You are playing against AI, not against a human player with human creativity.

And for me it is okay the way it is, because i dont feel cheated at all. In PES 5 and PES 6 i felt cheated a hole lot more than in this one, it was way more obvious. Maybe it has something to do with the way the AI scores this time. They play a lot smarter then before and i see a lot of very good and explainable goals. They score and you think "Uh Boy, that was a nice play" or "wow, what a great strike". So i would say: If they cheat it is beautiful cheating at least

 

[baangus]

@baangus
Unfortunately GK aren't very good in this game.

I don't have the game yet. But if they're really THAT bad, then that's damn near broken, and I'll just stick with pes 2011, LOL.

 

[baangus]

As for the running away thing you mention. I believe this happen all the time automatically. I see it a thousand time that cpu controlled players are changing directions without a reason.

True, that was a problem in PES 2011 as well until I globally raised players' defensive ratings. Fixed the problem for the most part.

 

[imothop]

I don't have the game yet. But if they're really THAT bad, then that's damn near broken, and I'll just stick with pes 2011, LOL.

They are not that bad, they are ok. They have some problems with slow grounded shots, with deflected shots and sometimes with shots they can't see very well. That sounds bad but most of the time they are solid. In my 3 Games i uploadet to Youtube you won't see any GK faults as i remember. So it is not that you see faults every game. It really depends on the situation. Sometimes you wont see any faults for 3-4 games, then it happen twice a game.

But they do need work, no question about that.

 

[baangus]

They are not that bad, they are ok. They have some problems with slow grounded shots, with deflected shots and sometimes with shots they can't see very well. That sounds bad but most of the time they are solid. In my 3 Games i uploadet to Youtube you won't see any GK faults as i remember. So it is not that you see faults every game. It really depends on the situation. Sometimes you wont see any faults for 3-4 games, then it happen twice a game.

But they do need work, no question about that.

Okay, well I guess that's good news and bad news, lol. Thanks.

 

[abu97]

the ai doesn't cheat because i struggle on top player and i always concede goals in the last minute from corners also when i raise the difficulty to superstar which is supposed to be harder it's different.
Surely it's a coincidence.


NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dan80]

Most goals come from corners in the last miniute so when you kick off you have no time at all, and the stop start is still theer lets say through ball my defender will stop start or the other way around my striker will stop start.

And there seems to be some invisible wall around players sometimes where your player just cant get an easy ball that might be bouncing or run around in circles so that the CPU can get it.

I find this so annoying that every year after about 2 weeks you start to notice the cracks.

 

[abu97]

if you stop the ai from scripting like magically stopping a free kick, you are in GRAVE DANGER. the ai will do anything back for you stopping that cheat even if it means blasing it to your own net

 

[Ali]

I play on PS3 and i know what you mean. I believe there is a thing that you may could call "cheating" in some ways. You have a point here and im not going to say you are totally wrong or it doesn't exist at all.

I guess i just have a different look at it then you have. If you want a good game and not a very boring one they need to give the AI some favor here an there. Otherwise you would win every game easily. You are playing against AI, not against a human player with human creativity.

And for me it is okay the way it is, because i dont feel cheated at all. In PES 5 and PES 6 i felt cheated a hole lot more than in this one, it was way more obvious. Maybe it has something to do with the way the AI scores this time. They play a lot smarter then before and i see a lot of very good and explainable goals. They score and you think "Uh Boy, that was a nice play" or "wow, what a great strike". So i would say: If they cheat it is beautiful cheating at least

You mention human creativity, but I have said for a long time that there is even scripting in multiplayer. You get those moments where every 50/50 challenge goes against you, passes don't go where you aim etc etc. Konami tries to market this as "momentum shifting".... which is basically a load of tosh!

 

[ilyasmad]

I think the only "scripting" that is impossible to stop is deflections, rebounds and idiotic goalkeeper situations. Other than that, in ML against a similar skilled team on Professional difficulty, they hardly can score, more so against long ball tactics team.

Had the worst scripting moment ever. Dominating the game, had around 10 shots with 60percent possesion, while the CPU had 2. It was 0-0 During the last minutes, I thought meh, a point is fine. I conceded a throw in at around 88th minute. Guess what. The cpu long throws the ball to the penalty box and heads in a soft header to score. You know whats the worst thing, for some odd reason the goalkeeper just had to position himself so high up, and that's what caused the goal.

 

[Boca Junior]

it seems like eveytime someone get a goal agianst they blame it on scripting or ai cheating. many many times is real live soccer you can see a goal come. and they are not scripted

 

[Ali]

it seems like eveytime someone get a goal agianst they blame it on scripting or ai cheating. many many times is real live soccer you can see a goal come. and they are not scripted

It's not the same. In real life FOOTBALL, you cannot tell when there is gonna be a goal when the ball crosses the halfway line. In PES, it feels like a foregone conclusion.

Just because you don't notice the scripting in PES, doesn't mean it isn't there. I just don't think the AI is clever enough to produce a properly decent non-scripted goal.

 

[Boca Junior]

oh no thats not true. in some matches you can feel the goal come 5 minutes before they are scored