Psm3 thoughts on pes2010

[Makavelian]

I can't believe that people are bemoaning the fact that PES have stolen a couple of FIFA's recent ideas. FIFA have been doing this to PES for years. Examples:

-The advantage rule was on PES first
-fix camera (precursor to BAP/BAL)
-Controls (remeber on FIFA when you had to fucking tap triangle to run for fuck's sake?)
-Power bar shooting
-Radar (which I consider crucial, but I know others don't)
-Player names at the bottom of the screen
.

spot on ..

 

[shaun7]

All games (when in competition with another game especially of the same subject) steal some things from each other. FIFA HAS DONE IT AND PES HAS DONE IT ALSO. No need to complan about it. It's just the way things are.

 

[Tech_Skill]

All games (when in competition with another game especially of the same subject) steal some things from each other. FIFA HAS DONE IT AND PES HAS DONE IT ALSO. No need to complan about it. It's just the way things are.

Yes but we are talking about Konami taking things that are already in another game and trying to pass them off as major changes on a next generation console, errrmmm no they are not.

Whats also hilarious is few of the ideas actually tackle the major problems the PES series is having, aka, shitty gameplay engine and shitty animations, plus an AI which just rushes around the pitch.

I mean its not making sense, 2 years in making, and thats what they have come up with? nothing innovative... I mean if they are gonna nick from fifa thats fine, nick the decent stuff, not the custom tactics, (which even fifa dont make huge deal of) then try to make it out to be a major change in football games haha.

But wait till september you'll see.

 

[Dale C.]

All games (when in competition with another game especially of the same subject) steal some things from each other. FIFA HAS DONE IT AND PES HAS DONE IT ALSO. No need to complan about it. It's just the way things are.

Too right man.


Glad to see this thread has turned into another Fifa vs PES pissing contest :laugh:

 

[shankly is god]

im going to get both fifa and pes cus they are both football games we are football fans so.... hey you get best of both worlds but pes is better

 

[2-Face]

If we look at the overall fanbase of PES the response was negative. Even the last 2 years. The game wasn't "realistic" and it wasn't fun compared to previous games. What suprises me is that they can get the game very good on ps2 but not on next gen? well if that's the problem, then they should hire some experienced people to fix that. And people should stop saying its all about the gameplay. A game now day's has to have everything. We buy next gen consoles because we want the real deal not some gay-cpu kind of animations and scripted game play. And people should stop supporting KONAMI if they come with the same crap again. I know it's hard as a "fan", but you gotta be honest you are only fooling your self.

They say it's a 50% build, well i don't buy that crap. My brother is into game design and he say's that it takes allot of work, unless they are working with 500 people on it, can't be done.

And it seems that people are forgetting this: this is their third year, you gotta be critical especially now you have memebers of KONAMI on the board. Let them know that we want a proper next gen football game, otherwise it's FIFA again!

All i care is a fun game that you can play while you are with your friends, not a frustrating game. that's the most important thing.

 

[Hunter]

If you had to pick a game now, which one would you pick?

The one with a master league with real money, Official CL and Europa league and a tactics gage, and new PK system.

Or the one with most of europes major leagues fully liscensed, a totally re vamped manager mode, 360 dribbling and skill dribbling, about 50+ stadiums and the most advanced physics system available. And the game that already has some of the other games key improvements anyways.

Its not even a contest right now, PES seems like its simply correcting errors, which is good, but there is nothing inspring at all there for me.

Woah woah woah. I need to stop you right there. I currently own both PES 2009 and FIFA 09. I started with PES 2009 and became bored of it after around 4 months, so I bought FIFA 09 and that fast became mundane to me only probably 1 month in. I'm now selling FIFA 09 and I'm back on PES's Master League.

While PES is adopting some of FIFA's points, I think people are being very quick to forget just how PES has helped shape FIFA into the biggest selling game that it is today. No one remember having to repeatedly tap "triangle" just to sprint in the old FIFAs? EA Sports undoubtedly adopted PES's entire control system, from the sprinting buttons to lobbed through balls, pretty much everything except the shoot button. FIFA then attempted to incorporate a mroe tactical element to formations recently, albeit not superbly executed but that's to be expected when Konami have been experienced in this specific department for years already. Either way, it doesn't matter who "steals" from who, because both EA and Konami have done it, and we shouldn't complain if it's going to make each game that much better.

Another point I have to call you up on here mate is you stating that FIFA has "the most advanced physics system available" - utter bollocks. While it's all great to laugh at the excellent collisions that FIFA provides, whether it's a 3-man pile up in a tackle or a misaimed lunge at your teammate, the actual ball physics of FIFA has over the years and still is poor. The ball simply doesn't move in a realistic manner, the spinning is way too erratic and the deflections are often ridiculous. I'll agree on the hit detection physics and collisions, but as far all ball physics, PES has always been ahead of the game in that department, without question.

I do agree though about the lack of innovation and inspiration in the PES series lately, the last real intriguing addition was "Become A Legend" obviously and while you were able to playout a whole career which was good fun and realistic, there were still flaws such as teammates playing poorly in your presence all too often. It wasn't a bad attempt, but I was expecting better. FIFA constantly adds new elements, but the problem is a lot of the time they aren't actually great. The last inspirational addition FIFA made was the use of the "Arena" - however even from this it only highlighted the problems with FIFA, especially in the physics and programming areas. Whilst playing in the Arena before, even though I tried to, I still hit 10 shots in a row with exactly the same outcome as the ball moved in exactly the same way and hit the backwall in exactly the same place. This is my main gripe with FIFA, the outcomes of shots are too pre-programmed and limited, and while the PES goalkeepers are shocking, at least I can't replicate the same shot to a tee every time.

For me, FIFA09 was more hype than gameplay, but it's obvious PES still needs to find it's feet. PES 2009 wasn't a bad single player game, but the online was pathetic, and if Konami are able to upgrade the single player a little bit while replicating PES6's online capabilities then I think the PES series will once again take the crown. Either way, it's all preference and I just want an enjoyable football game, so it doesn't matter to me which game you all opt for.

 

[shaun7]

Yes but we are talking about Konami taking things that are already in another game and trying to pass them off as major changes on a next generation console, errrmmm no they are not.

Whats also hilarious is few of the ideas actually tackle the major problems the PES series is having, aka, shitty gameplay engine and shitty animations, plus an AI which just rushes around the pitch.

I mean its not making sense, 2 years in making, and thats what they have come up with? nothing innovative... I mean if they are gonna nick from fifa thats fine, nick the decent stuff, not the custom tactics, (which even fifa dont make huge deal of) then try to make it out to be a major change in football games haha.

But wait till september you'll see.

Hey man, fifa copied so many things from pes in the ps2 era. For that time, the ps2 was next gen compared to ps1 so basically it's the same thing here. No difference.
And also, fifa 09 has too many bad things too (even if I am preferring it at the moment). I do not need to mention them. BOTH GAMES NEED SERIOUS FIXING AND BOTH GAMES WEREN'T WORTHY TO BE NEXT GEN. That is the truth. The X360 and ps3 can handle much more.

 

[shankly is god]

^ true mate very true

 

[RAMAXWY]

Woah woah woah. I need to stop you right there. I currently own both PES 2009 and FIFA 09. I started with PES 2009 and became bored of it after around 4 months, so I bought FIFA 09 and that fast became mundane to me only probably 1 month in. I'm now selling FIFA 09 and I'm back on PES's Master League.

While PES is adopting some of FIFA's points, I think people are being very quick to forget just how PES has helped shape FIFA into the biggest selling game that it is today. No one remember having to repeatedly tap "triangle" just to sprint in the old FIFAs? EA Sports undoubtedly adopted PES's entire control system, from the sprinting buttons to lobbed through balls, pretty much everything except the shoot button. FIFA then attempted to incorporate a mroe tactical element to formations recently, albeit not superbly executed but that's to be expected when Konami have been experienced in this specific department for years already. Either way, it doesn't matter who "steals" from who, because both EA and Konami have done it, and we shouldn't complain if it's going to make each game that much better.

Another point I have to call you up on here mate is you stating that FIFA has "the most advanced physics system available" - utter bollocks. While it's all great to laugh at the excellent collisions that FIFA provides, whether it's a 3-man pile up in a tackle or a misaimed lunge at your teammate, the actual ball physics of FIFA has over the years and still is poor. The ball simply doesn't move in a realistic manner, the spinning is way too erratic and the deflections are often ridiculous. I'll agree on the hit detection physics and collisions, but as far all ball physics, PES has always been ahead of the game in that department, without question.

I do agree though about the lack of innovation and inspiration in the PES series lately, the last real intriguing addition was "Become A Legend" obviously and while you were able to playout a whole career which was good fun and realistic, there were still flaws such as teammates playing poorly in your presence all too often. It wasn't a bad attempt, but I was expecting better. FIFA constantly adds new elements, but the problem is a lot of the time they aren't actually great. The last inspirational addition FIFA made was the use of the "Arena" - however even from this it only highlighted the problems with FIFA, especially in the physics and programming areas. Whilst playing in the Arena before, even though I tried to, I still hit 10 shots in a row with exactly the same outcome as the ball moved in exactly the same way and hit the backwall in exactly the same place. This is my main gripe with FIFA, the outcomes of shots are too pre-programmed and limited, and while the PES goalkeepers are shocking, at least I can't replicate the same shot to a tee every time.

For me, FIFA09 was more hype than gameplay, but it's obvious PES still needs to find it's feet. PES 2009 wasn't a bad single player game, but the online was pathetic, and if Konami are able to upgrade the single player a little bit while replicating PES6's online capabilities then I think the PES series will once again take the crown. Either way, it's all preference and I just want an enjoyable football game, so it doesn't matter to me which game you all opt for.

couldn't have said it any better so thank u,an
as you said it's down to personal preference but with all it's flaws PES09 has so much going for it that FIFA09 just doesn't have so i personally don't understand why some choose FIFA09 but like u said it's down to personal taste and when it comes down to that, arguing about it just doesn't make sense. :no:

 

[shankly is god]

i bought tiger woods yesterday and only played it today but the live weather feed is awesome it takes from the weather channel and produces live weather that happens over that golf course....the commentators even say " theres alot of cloud looks like rain" and all sorts of others.... may be left wing but i would love to see that in pes would be really cool

 

[Skyyo210]

Easy stuff to fix that I didn't see listed.

-Stadiums
-Injuries

Hopefully the gameplay will make me forget that I am playing in the same stadium with superhuman players that cut on a dime no matter what and that my players have a tactical IQ of a water buffalo.

 

[Macksam]

I agree with the above. The ball physics in PES still own FIFA. I just hope they fix the collision detection problems that have been killing the game the last few years.

 

[proevofan88]

Why is it so hard to believe that its only a 50% build?...the code Konami are CURRENTLY working on is probably at around 70-80% complete. They just dont want to show off the whole thing.

The animations are coming. I really dont see why people are freaking out about this. This game will move very nicely and smooth.

Whether the game will be what we have been waiting for for 3 years now is yet to be seen tho.

 

[Tech_Skill]

Woah woah woah. I need to stop you right there. I currently own both PES 2009 and FIFA 09. I started with PES 2009 and became bored of it after around 4 months, so I bought FIFA 09 and that fast became mundane to me only probably 1 month in. I'm now selling FIFA 09 and I'm back on PES's Master League.

We know FIFA's MM doesnt have the longevity of Master league, but the gamplay is superior, note how ea are revamping the manager mode, whilst PES have the same old shitty Master league for year and years, it took them about 10 years to put real money in it, slow progress is an understatement. You still have to end the whole master league just to be another team, laughable in this day and age.

While PES is adopting some of FIFA's points, I think people are being very quick to forget just how PES has helped shape FIFA into the biggest selling game that it is today. No one remember having to repeatedly tap "triangle" just to sprint in the old FIFAs? EA Sports undoubtedly adopted PES's entire control system, from the sprinting buttons to lobbed through balls, pretty much everything except the shoot button. FIFA then attempted to incorporate a mroe tactical element to formations recently, albeit not superbly executed but that's to be expected when Konami have been experienced in this specific department for years already. Either way, it doesn't matter who "steals" from who, because both EA and Konami have done it, and we shouldn't complain if it's going to make each game that much better.

Again, we know this, the point is being missed here. As of right now, FIFA is not the game in decline, fifa isnt claiming fifa 10 was 'years in the making' and FIFA isnt taking average PES ideas and then claiming them to be headline changes. Especially something like custom tactics, which seems to be PES's headline improvement this year, point is, who the fuck is gonna buy the game for that shit (other than fanboys) when they can get it in another game. It took them 2 years to introduce that shit right? Its like FIFA turning around this year and saying "This year guys our big change is- you can switch your teams attack from defensive to offensive mid game" Who gives a fuck, its not a major change. If they are gonna take from fifa, take the better ideas (which is what fifa did to them) like 360 movement, dont take custom tactics then try and make it out to be revolutionary, when it clearly isnt. haha.

One more time so people understand, im not critiscing PES for taking fifa ideas, im slagging them off for taking minor fifa ideas and then making them out to be headline changes, 2 years in the making= a 0-100 tactical slider gage which you can already get in another game, hahahaha, again if you think im wrong, wait for the reviews in spetemeber time.

Another point I have to call you up on here mate is you stating that FIFA has "the most advanced physics system available" - utter bollocks. While it's all great to laugh at the excellent collisions that FIFA provides, whether it's a 3-man pile up in a tackle or a misaimed lunge at your teammate, the actual ball physics of FIFA has over the years and still is poor. The ball simply doesn't move in a realistic manner, the spinning is way too erratic and the deflections are often ridiculous. I'll agree on the hit detection physics and collisions, but as far all ball physics, PES has always been ahead of the game in that department, without question.

Waste of breath, Seabass himself admitted fifa had a better engine and he would consider using it if he could. PES's ball physics are hilarious, players feet dont even touch the ball and it goes like a rocket, ball always deflects to AI controlled players, balloons all over the place, you cannt make it curl along the floor like you can in FIFA, fucks sake its only in recent pes games where you can bend the ball inside out, horrible shit. But again, wait till september when you see the ball physics in fifa 10 then we shall compare them to pes and have this discussion.

I do agree though about the lack of innovation and inspiration in the PES series lately, the last real intriguing addition was "Become A Legend" obviously and while you were able to playout a whole career which was good fun and realistic, there were still flaws such as teammates playing poorly in your presence all too often. It wasn't a bad attempt, but I was expecting better. FIFA constantly adds new elements, but the problem is a lot of the time they aren't actually great. The last inspirational addition FIFA made was the use of the "Arena" - however even from this it only highlighted the problems with FIFA, especially in the physics and programming areas. Whilst playing in the Arena before, even though I tried to, I still hit 10 shots in a row with exactly the same outcome as the ball moved in exactly the same way and hit the backwall in exactly the same place. This is my main gripe with FIFA, the outcomes of shots are too pre-programmed and limited, and while the PES goalkeepers are shocking, at least I can't replicate the same shot to a tee every time.
For me, FIFA09 was more hype than gameplay, but it's obvious PES still needs to find it's feet. PES 2009 wasn't a bad single player game, but the online was pathetic, and if Konami are able to upgrade the single player a little bit while replicating PES6's online capabilities then I think the PES series will once again take the crown. Either way, it's all preference and I just want an enjoyable football game, so it doesn't matter to me which game you all opt for.

FIFA 09 was not perfect, but when most sane people and even one of the main writers of this website admits its more advanced than pes 2009, that says it all to be honest. The game was horrible, old and outdated, players have an awful sense of positioning, no midfield battles, you can take one player and go through entire teams, CPU defenders move out of the way to allow you in on goal, the AI scripts like crazy, player attributes mean very little, games are sporadic and end to end, so many reasons why that game is a shocker.

The reason why I will rep EA is that they are addressing FIFA 09's problems (and there are quite a few), and they have the courtesy to come online and specfically tell what is and isnt getting done. Can the same be said about Konami? cos for all the shitty 8 driectional, old master league, the disgraceful AI, the poor physics, the pooor player positioning, horrible sound, CPU automated passing how many of these and other faults are actually being addressed?

If you read the PSM3 article about PES2010. I could have sworn they said there werent that many new animations on the 50% build but their might be more coming... and as for that untucked shirts crap and being able to select teams based on fitness, thats fucking embarassing as a so called 'proper change'.

PES these days is an aracde game, you really think a serious football game player is gonna go back to an 8-directional CPU automated passing and shooting game, when i can play manual or semi_manual, actually weight my own passes, and move in 360 degrees, with same the fucking tactics gage konami have, just in a different place in the menu?

Ermmmmm no.

PES doesnt give the level of control the other game does, and guess what, next year is gonna be the same old story, why? cos Konami are moronic and have been fobbing you off with a tweaked PES for year and years. Next gen = more control, more realism, more options, pes just doesnt deliver.

And Shaun7 is completley correct, both games have a way to go before being completley next gen, but PES isnt even remotley close right now, look how far this game has come along since PES3, not much at all in all those years, its a disgrace. Every thing ends some day, ISS PRO EVO- PES 6 where the best money could buy, they fucked it up, now its over till they see sense.

 

[Lugash]

People keep saying about this 360 degree control, but who's to say it will work? I have a suspicion it could just make FIFA more twitchy and slow, which would ruin a game already close to ruin by big, awkward rapist touches when trying to turn with the ball. I thought that FIFA07 of the time was more realistic than PES6, but that didn't make it more fun. You have to remember that its a game and ultra realism in terms of gameplay has to stop somewhere to allow the player to have fun.

 

[Tech_Skill]

People keep saying about this 360 degree control, but who's to say it will work?

No one here knows for sure yet, Ive seen a supposedly leaked vid of fifa 10 which i put up in the fifa 10 thread, you can see it there. The journos who tested it said its amazing, if the video was legit, it looks very good too.

See the vid in the thread and you will see why there is hype.

Its like every time pes fans ask for something, those fuckers at EA Take it and put it in fifa, PES fans ask for move movement, fifa puts in 360, even a few weeks ago I saw some poster on here asking for different goal frames/nets, and it looks like the fuckers are even putting that in fifa 10 as well.

Its called activley seeking feedback, thats why I give them credit.

PS.To avoid the big turns, you use the pace control button to turn, not the right stick.

 

[ceysin]

Why PSM3 never talks about camera angles?? Is camera tilting back to PES series??
Other than that, all seems promising.. I'll buy it for sure.. I dislike Fifa and never bought a Fifa game after Fifa'97

Do u know anything on Camera Tilting issue?

 

[CocoBZ]

OK, now somebody from a country where FIFA is very popular will tell you his point of view.

I'm not an expert in the graphics, or the gameplay, so I don't really care about them. But I know where FIFA goes wrong; this is the element that you are expecting the least to be favorable to Konami: THE LICENSES!!! Yes, I know, FIFA has a lot more licenses than PES, but most of them don't have a big importance; they have license for the Austrian league, which is not a strong championship, and for the Coca-Cola Football League Two (wtf?), but they do not have strong championships like the Romanian, the Russian or the Ukrainian (WHAT THE...?!!); and here comes Konami. Even though they don't have too many licenses, they know which teams should really deserve to be in the game. As a result, when I heard that Steaua and CFR are in the game, I've spread the news and every people I know, all of them big FIFA fans and some of them not knowing at that moment that a game called Pro Evolution Soccer exists, switched almost immediately to it. The only thing that made them to still play FIFA was the online play, so if Konami solves this problem, I know they'll gain more popularity in countries like this.

P.S. Sorry for my bad English.

 

[Tech_Skill]

Why PSM3 never talks about camera angles?? Is camera tilting back to PES series??
Other than that, all seems promising.. I'll buy it for sure.. I dislike Fifa and never bought a Fifa game after Fifa'97

Do u know anything on Camera Tilting issue?

Good point, the tilt camera angle was pure quality, why they removed that shit il never know, the camera angles on pes 2008/9 was shite, you cant aim up for the near post as well as in previous games.

I use to have a tilt of 5/6 on PES 6. lol.