Right, Time For Some Real Talk on This Fifa/PES Buisness

[Amateur]

How else would you control the player? What would be your solution to that problem?

That's an interesting and productive question, if you really intend to at least try to understand my point, rather than looking for ways to discredit my point.



Intro

In my opinion, I think it all boils down to the simple fact: have we ever seen a game with good graphics and motion capture animations, with the same feel and responsiveness as PES5 or PES6?

I am not saying it is impossible, but to date, we have not seen anything like that.

And then, you could always argue that PES5 had response issues: human beings moving and reacting like super-humans IS and always was a response issue... But it fitted in perfectly with the 8-axis passing and the overall arcade and responsive feel of the game.

With PES and FIFA on current gen consoles, I feel the passing is pretty well done, but the dribbling and man-marking does NOT fit in with the new 360-axis passing.

So for me, it's not about going back to PES5, because going back to PES5 might be impossible to do with modern graphics and modern animations; and also, PES5 was 8-axis running and 8-axis passing.

If you try to do the same thing with 360-axis running and 360-axis passing, it will be a frantic, even faster, ping pong game than PES6 was. It will lead to ever faster and faster.... gameplay.

So, again, for me, it all boils down to the simple fact: the left analogue stick, essentially, works the same in PES5 and PES11.

When you improve one area of the game WITHOUT actually replacing the core concept, the core issues will move around from one area to another: we now have 360-axis passing, this was not an option with PES5, but we also have, static and unresponsive AI off-the-ball movement; on the other hand, PES5 was 8-axis passing, but it had responsive and "smarter" AI to compensate and minimize the mentioned restriction.

The fact that the left analogue stick, essentially, works the same way in PES5 and PES11.... is simply wrong, because it means that the left analogue stick still revolves around the same old Famicom Concept which was used with games like PES5 and PES6 and ISS.

So, again, the question: have we ever seen a game with good graphics and motion capture animations, with the same feel and responsiveness as PES5 or PES6?

Different console, different strengths and different weaknesses, different times or different context, different concepts; by trying to do a PES5 rendition on the PS3, you might well be asking for something impractical in the actual context.

Konami and EA Sports need to find the correct formula for dribbling and man-marking: they need to find something that fits in with the 360-axis passing.

The current dribbling and man-marking system is fast where it shouldn't be, and unresponsive and robotic where it shouldn't be. I think that is a big game breaker, because a lot of people cannot get past the unresponsive and soul-less feel of dribbling and man-marking, despite the improvements in other areas of the game.

And rightly so...

I just think it's a shame a lot of people cannot see past PES5, and have made up their minds about PES11 and FIFA11 for all the wrong reasons.... because probably, PES11 is very different, and PES10 was very different, and the fact that Konami did not wanted to distance themselves from games like PES5 and PES6, might have actually done quite the opposite.

Basically, you are asking a PS3 to do something a PS2 could do, instead of asking the PS3 to do what it was supposed to do. That's the way I see it, and that's what Konami have admitted themselves in more than one occasion; simply put, that is my conclusion after play testing PES for all these years.
---------------------------------------------------------------



How else would you control the player? What would be my solution to that problem?

I wanted to provide real life footage, so that you or anyone interested can get a better understanding and a better idea of where I'm coming from.

I will first explain the basic idea, and will then provide real life footage as examples. The first four parts are written explanations without the assistance of video footage; the fifth part is mostly video footage with brief explanations.

1st Part: http://abyss-watcher.livejournal.com/11390.html

2nd part: http://abyss-watcher.livejournal.com/11724.html

3rd part: http://abyss-watcher.livejournal.com/12004.html

4th part: http://abyss-watcher.livejournal.com/12283.html
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5th part: real life examples.

Now, for the actual footage showing how the INSIDE CUT and the PRECISION TOUCH works in real life.

Before watching the footage, you should read the explanation, so that you get a vague idea of where I'm coming from.

1st example: http://abyss-watcher.livejournal.com/12407.html

2nd example: http://abyss-watcher.livejournal.com/12712.html

3rd example: http://abyss-watcher.livejournal.com/12893.html

4th example: http://abyss-watcher.livejournal.com/13280.html

5th example: http://abyss-watcher.livejournal.com/13470.html

6th example: http://abyss-watcher.livejournal.com/13726.html

7th example: http://abyss-watcher.livejournal.com/13979.html

8th example: http://abyss-watcher.livejournal.com/14129.html

9th example: http://abyss-watcher.livejournal.com/14392.html

10th example: http://abyss-watcher.livejournal.com/14730.html

11th example: http://abyss-watcher.livejournal.com/14927.html

12th example: http://abyss-watcher.livejournal.com/15307.html

 

[Tech_Skill]

Again, I really think this is another huge generalization, on PES 6 when offline multiplayer was the big thing, I beat someone who was Spain, with South Korea, I also beat another player on PES 2008 using South Korea as well (really pissed him off as he genuinely thought he was better than me at PES, in them days I was actually pretty decent at PES hehehe)

Now, the stats mattered, because I had a poorer team, but I was able to make the difference, mainly because the one thing I can still do on pretty much any game is keep possession without any of that ping pong nonsense, so my technique did play a factor there.

It's a mix of both, Pes is stat orientated, but a better player can beat another player with a lesser team, I could go online with my Real Madrid team now and im sure there is someone online who would kill me with a lesser team.

If anything this pes gives you more control than before, on previous PES's the passing was gay, made me feel like a passenger, press X a bunch of times and the ball goes flying about everywhere. Well this year it seems that the user has more control over the passing and yet the stats still count, so the game is not as limited as previous PES's at all in that respect.

Another thing this PES is doing that I havent seen another game do like it, is the defensive AI, this is a double edged sword, it kills the game in some ways, but makes the game, the CPU AI tries to behave like real life defenders in a one on one situation in that a player will shadow a player and tried to anicipate the attackers movement then interecept, rather than steamroll through the attacker. This is why in PES you get genuine one on one's where you can slow dribble up to a player and trick the fuck out of him. I havent seen a system like that since ISS 3 on PS2 which very few people have played, I had a copy and it has a system where you'd press a button and the camera would zoom right in as you'd have a one on one with a player and you could do body fient and all sorts to try and get past the man, ill put a link up in a sec.

The thing about this system is that when you stroll up to a defender slowly they wont always tackle you, because the AI is still programmed to act as if it's in one on one mode and therefore will back off and allow you to come forward, especially on the wing where most of these one on ones tend to happen.

This is what I believe to be the underlying reason behind the greenzone bug, Its not konami being total fuckwits, its the side effect of something very good they tried to implement into the game (not excusing the bug, just explaining it)

Yet another example of how and why AI is actually a critical issue, its the AI can determine freedom, you could have 20 dribble buttons, if the AI tackles you perfectly every single time you try to dribble the buttons are wasted.

This is the one on one system on ISS 3 I was talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmEiMHQQnCk

4:37

When your one on one with a player you activate it with L1 me thinks.

I had this game YEARS ago.

 

[Sminky]

I don't feel in full control of my players either - especially when off the ball, for example, I'm using the right analogue stick for Jostling and attemtping to apply pressure and the two systems are a pain to execute together - from my perspective - the most annoying part for me is the AI on the CPU seemingly 2nd guesses my dribbling whereas when the boot is on the other foot I get turned inside out like a right lemon. I don't want to feel the deck is too stacked against me when playing the AI.

The defending bug by the way isn't applicable on Top Player, I can never stroll down the wing, usually the CPU doubles up on the flank. If one doesn't get me the other does. To be honest though I'd hate to stroll up the wing and cross the ball in time and time again. Speaking of crossing, what have Konami done to the lofted through cross we had on PES2010? It just doesn't feel the same or have the same effect.

 

[Tech_Skill]

I don't feel in full control of my players either -

See, this is where is gets Messy, put it this way.... right now, Pes's system is as close as it gets to balancing the act between user input and individuality, if you want full control, its gonna have to be manual on fifa, which is deffo a challenge but only to certain degree, ie. once you have mastered it, all the players feel like one big homogenous mess. I used manual passing and throughballs in fifa world cup, game was still fucking boring as hell after 3 weeks.

 

[Amateur]

Again, I really think this is another huge generalization, on PES 6 when offline multiplayer was the big thing, I beat someone who was Spain, with South Korea, I also beat another player on PES 2008 using South Korea as well (really pissed him off as he genuinely thought he was better than me at PES, in them days I was actually pretty decent at PES hehehe)

Now, the stats mattered, because I had a poorer team, but I was able to make the difference, mainly because the one thing I can still do on pretty much any game is keep possession without any of that ping pong nonsense, so my technique did play a factor there.

It's a mix of both, Pes is stat orientated, but a better player can beat another player with a lesser team, I could go online with my Real Madrid team now and im sure there is someone online who would kill me with a lesser team.

If anything this pes gives you more control than before, on previous PES's the passing was gay, made me feel like a passenger, press X a bunch of times and the ball goes flying about everywhere. Well this year it seems that the user has more control over the passing and yet the stats still count, so the game is not as limited as previous PES's at all in that respect.

Another thing this PES is doing that I havent seen another game do like it, is the defensive AI, this is a double edged sword, it kills the game in some ways, but makes the game, the CPU AI tries to behave like real life defenders in a one on one situation in that a player will shadow a player and tried to anicipate the attackers movement then interecept, rather than steamroll through the attacker. This is why in PES you get genuine one on one's where you can slow dribble up to a player and trick the fuck out of him. I havent seen a system like that since ISS 3 on PS2 which very few people have played, I had a copy and it has a system where you'd press a button and the camera would zoom right in as you'd have a one on one with a player and you could do body fient and all sorts to try and get past the man, ill put a link up in a sec.

The thing about this system is that when you stroll up to a defender slowly they wont always tackle you, because the AI is still programmed to act as if it's in one on one mode and therefore will back off and allow you to come forward, especially on the wing where most of these one on ones tend to happen.

This is what I believe to be the underlying reason behind the greenzone bug, Its not konami being total fuckwits, its the side effect of something very good they tried to implement into the game (not excusing the bug, just explaining it)

Yet another example of how and why AI is actually a critical issue, its the AI can determine freedom, you could have 20 dribble buttons, if the AI tackles you perfectly every single time you try to dribble the buttons are wasted.

That system of ISS 3 sounds excellent for the time, would like to see some footage of it, as that is basically how I think should be done, more or less, with the camera closing in when one-on-one situations occur.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwM4z8xD_cU

Between (1:45 -- 2:19) you can see how at (1:53 -- 1:55) the camera closed in on the one-versus-one situation, giving you better visuals of the dribbling and man-marking, and then zoomed out when the ball carrier passed the ball: it is a good example of how I imagine it working, the camera zooming in and out should feel dynamic but subtle.

If you find video footage of the ISS 3 game that you mentioned, I would like to see how it worked.

Anyways,

Like I said, PES11 is almost as good as it gets with the old Famicom system. It is the best PES game to date, as far as I'm concerned; but the controls are not very good, the dribbling and man-marking system is outdated and imprecise, a lot of things could be better.

And Konami have admitted this themselves, by admitting that PES11 is what PES08 should have been, there is no speculation: Konami is saying to you that PES11 and FIFA11 are both outdated.

The execution could be a lot better, and the execution of dribbling and man-marking is the link to all the areas of the game, and thus, arguably, the most important area of the game; and the physics determine how substantial or insubstantial the dribbling and man-marking area is.

Not the AI, the physics. PES5 and PES6 had smart and responsive AI, yet the dribbling and man-marking system was very outdated and dumb.

The AI is always important, but all the different areas of the game are designed with the dribbling and man-marking system in mind; in other words, the dribbling and man-marking system, is the foundation on which everything stands.

If the foundation is dumb, then it doesn't matters how smart or dumb the AI is, because the game will always be dumb where it matters the most.

See, this is where is gets Messy, put it this way.... right now, Pes's system is as close as it gets to balancing the act between user input and individuality, if you want full control, its gonna have to be manual on fifa, which is deffo a challenge but only to certain degree, ie. once you have mastered it, all the players feel like one big homogenous mess. I used manual passing and throughballs in fifa world cup, game was still fucking boring as hell after 3 weeks.

Not really dude, with more different types of animations, the player individuality would be doubled or at least improved.

It should never be full control, but it also should not be as imprecise and as automatic as PES11 and FIFA11.

It's like the people who said that player individuality would be lost, if the game moved on from d-pad passing: and yet, the game moved on from d-pad passing, and it did not lost the player individuality.

Is a simple matter of making the game more technical and more substantial where it needs to be; currently and to date, it is too STAT driven and lacking soul.

FIFA on the other hand, in my opinion is worst, because it has more or less the same shitty execution.... and yet barely any player individuality; it just doesn't seem to work for me, too boring and imprecise and insubstantial in terms of technique, ridiculous in terms of stats or player individuality.

Manual in FIFA is stupid, it doesn't has physics, it is stupid: in FIFA you cannot actually "manually" dribble with the ball.

That's where the point of this argument lies, you can make a dumb concept manual, but at the end of the day, it still is a DUMB manual concept.

At least with PES, despite the shitty execution, it has a certain level of player individuality and a certain level of depth.

But like Konami already did with passing, where they improved the passing without loosing the player individuality; they, Konami, could and should make the dribbling and man-marking system more technical and substantial and precise.

You do not make it more substantial by adding more directions to a DUMB concept, adding directions to the same old concept will not make it "manual". The whole "manual" idea that EA Sports sells to its customers is a farce, it isn't manual, it is a dumb concept with more directions attached to it.

In order to make it more substantial, you need, you NEED, to change how the left analogue stick works.

In FIFA, the left analogue stick, essentially, works the same way as in PES5.

That's where the point of this argument lies, and that is why.......... if you add more directions to an outdated concept WITHOUT actually replacing the concept: consequently, you get less player individuality and less depth.

I do not want that, I want more player individuality and I want more depth and substance; but in order to do so, you need to get rid of the remaining Famicom Roots, and you need to change how the left analogue stick works.

 

[Tech_Skill]

If you find video footage of the ISS 3 game that you mentioned, I would like to see how it worked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmEiMHQQnCk

brief glimpse at 4:37

 

[thekidcastro]

It seems we work for Konami now and are helping them make a good game to receive the rewards. Like I said before, if they cant get it right by now and over all these years provide an entertaining game, what are we hanging around for? I hate to be an ass about it but essentially I have been loyal for a long time. I agree PES5 & 6 are the best football games ever made but I didnt buy my PS3 to play those old games. I want next gen football with fair competition against AI and for christ's sake, online mode? please!

Just dont know whats going to happen with PES2012? Seabass has seriously lost his ways now. He has no idea what he is doing.

The more I play PES2011, I can say alot of positive things about the game, graphics are top notch especially stadium, players and motion capture on replays etc

But the negatives outweigh the positives by far. Its truly embarrassing... PES is simply not fun anymore, its more headache than its worth.

I'm a firm believer in giving a game at least a month of hardcore play before judging on the product but I dont think I can get past the online part so dissapointing.

 

[Amateur]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmEiMHQQnCk

brief glimpse at 4:37

That was a cool system, I would like to see something like that in the future, but much more subtle and seamless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwM4z8xD_cU

Between (1:45 -- 2:19) you can see how at (1:53 -- 1:55) the camera closed in on the one-versus-one situation, giving you better visuals of the dribbling and man-marking, and then zoomed out when the ball carrier passed the ball: it is a good example of how I imagine it working, the camera zooming in and out, but with a dynamic and yet subtle feel or flow to it.

The camera definitely affects the excitement of the match, but it cannot be as constant and as accentuated as the ISS 3 game, as I can see myself feeling dizzy after 5 games, or perhaps I'm exaggerating.

It seems we work for Konami now and are helping them make a good game to receive the rewards. Like I said before, if they cant get it right by now and over all these years provide an entertaining game, what are we hanging around for? I hate to be an ass about it but essentially I have been loyal for a long time. I agree PES5 & 6 are the best football games ever made but I didnt buy my PS3 to play those old games. I want next gen football with fair competition against AI and for christ's sake, online mode? please!

Just dont know whats going to happen with PES2012? Seabass has seriously lost his ways now. He has no idea what he is doing.

The more I play PES2011, I can say alot of positive things about the game, graphics are top notch especially stadium, players and motion capture on replays etc

But the negatives outweigh the positives by far. Its truly embarrassing... PES is simply not fun anymore, its more headache than its worth.

I do not like the controls of PES11, it feels too systematic and repetitive for my taste.

The game is not that fun anymore, because the dribbling and man-marking system is not fun: is tapping the right analogue stick towards the right, four consecutive times, right, right, right, right.... fun?

Not for me, it's too minimalistic and systematic and repetitive. They continue using the same old concept, and as a result the left analogue stick is not being properly used, and consequently, we get complicated and systematic controls, as well as running animations all over the place.

Controls are very important when talking about a Football Sim, controls can make a simple game feel like a shore, and it can make a complicated game feel accessible and intuitive.

The execution of PES11 is too systematic and predictable; it simply does not feels as exciting as it could feel.

Basically, they are asking a PS3 to do the things a PS2 can do, rather than asking the PS3 to do what it was supposed to do.

You have to work to the strengths of the console, not the weaknesses: times change.

 

[klashman]

OP absolutely hilarious. But he's not far wrong, i mean he's right perfectly with fifa, maybe PES dosen't suit him but a very funny post!

 

[maxxpower]

Holy crap I forgot how damn good ISS was. Makes today's "next-gen" football games look like amateurs.

 

[thepusherman]

Great post...

The sad thing is though, regardless of FIFAs terrible aspects, that game will unfortunately thrive...Because there are more idiots in the world than there are intelligent people and EA know how to tap that market...

 

[IzitCuBa]

i totally agree with you about Fifa 10, World cup 2010 & Fifa 11...

i was eagerly anticipating what PES 2011 & Fifa 11 will bring to the table in terms of next gen, unfortunately Fifa11 fell short, whilst PES 11 feels like it has taken the correct steps forward and actually WORKED/DONE something for us this year.
last year i admitt i felt like a Fan-boy when PES 2010 came out i jumped on it with glee like a 6yr old on a bouncy castle whilst being ignorant that fifa 10 was a better game (it aint really, *Fan-boy mode* ;P), i knew Fifa 10 was a better game so being stubborn i purchased World cup, which i actually enjoyed as i got to the finals with Germany and played captain ur country as robinho - all fun and knowing it is different to Fifa 10 (*still Fan-boy mode*). Anyway after my fun with world cup for about 2 weeks which i inadvertedly went back to my ML team, i was very eager for fifa 11 as i was hoping for some sort of upgrade or advancement, unfortunately Fifa 11 felt exactly like world cup, i felt robbed and lied to when they explained all these new features:

+personality - i dont get it :S

Goal Keeper - who wants to play as a goal keeper

Pro Passing - same as world cup (say no more)

improved celebrations - quite fun and stops me from running around my flat

360 dribbling - same as world cup (say no more)..........actually i agree it is better but it is unrealistic that c.ronaldo can do magic skills in a really tense match against barca

Career mode - fifa 10 career mode compared to PES 2010's ML & BAL.............snm (say no more)

Now for PES 2011 new feature :-

PES 2011 - This feels like it has been worked on,
all their new advancement promised feels delivered:

Total control - agree, they have improved this, does feel like im in control, i did shout a few times until i realised the errors were my doing

Shot/Stamina gauge - obvious proof they have moved to the next gen, something new and fresh which i see fifa 12 having (remember i said it first )

Improved goalkeepers - .......i dunno, i have scored easy goals but was quite taxing to score the easy goals, however when i did score it felt like when i played PES 5 for the first time

Tactical & strategy improvements - totally agree, i feel they have made this more user friendly, LOOOL pokemon cards felt redundant in PES 2010 but i may do some swapsees in this gen

ML & BAL - SNM

oh and UEFA, fifa may have the licenses but it aint got Champions league - thats a clincher for me (*fan-boy mode still operative*)

all in all and i hate to say, i feel fifa 11 is a better game, simply coz it feels smooth, commentary is sublime, animations are cute & charming which captures the beautiful game,
BUT PES will always be PES..........

PES 2011 is a great game, its simply football made versitile - a game that allows you so much control is a winner for me, there is still more work done with PES and i take my hat off with respect to say 'Konami has made the correct step, keep it up and im sure 2012 will knock Fifa out of the winning chair'

thats all folks......

 

[Sminky]

i totally agree with you about Fifa 10, World cup 2010 & Fifa 11...

i was eagerly anticipating what PES 2011 & Fifa 11 will bring to the table in terms of next gen, unfortunately Fifa11 fell short, whilst PES 11 feels like it has taken the correct steps forward and actually WORKED/DONE something for us this year.
last year i admitt i felt like a Fan-boy when PES 2010 came out i jumped on it with glee like a 6yr old on a bouncy castle whilst being ignorant that fifa 10 was a better game (it aint really, *Fan-boy mode* ;P), i knew Fifa 10 was a better game so being stubborn i purchased World cup, which i actually enjoyed as i got to the finals with Germany and played captain ur country as robinho - all fun and knowing it is different to Fifa 10 (*still Fan-boy mode*). Anyway after my fun with world cup for about 2 weeks which i inadvertedly went back to my ML team, i was very eager for fifa 11 as i was hoping for some sort of upgrade or advancement, unfortunately Fifa 11 felt exactly like world cup, i felt robbed and lied to when they explained all these new features:

+personality - i dont get it :S

Goal Keeper - who wants to play as a goal keeper

Pro Passing - same as world cup (say no more)

improved celebrations - quite fun and stops me from running around my flat

360 dribbling - same as world cup (say no more)..........actually i agree it is better but it is unrealistic that c.ronaldo can do magic skills in a really tense match against barca

Career mode - fifa 10 career mode compared to PES 2010's ML & BAL.............snm (say no more)

Now for PES 2011 new feature :-

PES 2011 - This feels like it has been worked on,
all their new advancement promised feels delivered:

Total control - agree, they have improved this, does feel like im in control, i did shout a few times until i realised the errors were my doing

Shot/Stamina gauge - obvious proof they have moved to the next gen, something new and fresh which i see fifa 12 having (remember i said it first )

Improved goalkeepers - .......i dunno, i have scored easy goals but was quite taxing to score the easy goals, however when i did score it felt like when i played PES 5 for the first time

Tactical & strategy improvements - totally agree, i feel they have made this more user friendly, LOOOL pokemon cards felt redundant in PES 2010 but i may do some swapsees in this gen

ML & BAL - SNM

oh and UEFA, fifa may have the licenses but it aint got Champions league - thats a clincher for me (*fan-boy mode still operative*)

all in all and i hate to say, i feel fifa 11 is a better game, simply coz it feels smooth, commentary is sublime, animations are cute & charming which captures the beautiful game,
BUT PES will always be PES..........

PES 2011 is a great game, its simply football made versitile - a game that allows you so much control is a winner for me, there is still more work done with PES and i take my hat off with respect to say 'Konami has made the correct step, keep it up and im sure 2012 will knock Fifa out of the winning chair'

thats all folks......

I'd quite like to play as goalie - If I was playing two players on one team. You used to be able to on PES I don't know why they took it out.

 

[IzitCuBa]

I'd quite like to play as goalie - If I was playing two players on one team. You used to be able to on PES I don't know why they took it out.

i tried it out when i played fifa 10, didnt think much of it - no disrespect to keepers but i felt like a when i was younger in primary sch when i got picked as a goalie, not:crymore: not fun

yes PES had it, i remember when i was pissed at comp being my goalie that i thought it would be a good idea to control it myself...............:no: my error as i conceded 3 goals and concluded it being better to blame comp than myself

 

[S-D-P]

Dont want to sound like a fanboy as for me there is nothing worse, I am typical example of a pes fan that made the switch to fifa however I am firmly back in the pes camp this year. I played fifa 11 for two weeks solid and then pes, Once you discover the subtleties of pes there is no going back to fifa for me personally. FIFA has advanced more than I ever thought it could but it lacks so many of the fundamentals of what makes football. I even find manual passing more realistic on PES which is one area I thought fifa couldn't be beaten on. I think its just a shame many people dont give PES a chance as they seem to forget that its you that has to make the game more responsive and less rigid by the way you use the controls. If konami don't sort out the obvious flaws for next year I will be furious.

 

[OCKRASS]

Yesterday i played against a friend of mine who barley touches fifa.
HE COULD DOMINATE ME WITH BERBATOV BECAUSE OF HIS STRENGTH? :shocking: Where's the balance in that? I mean seriously? This is really getting on my nerves.
Physicality is important in football, BUT SO IS BODY BALANCE (which does not exist in fifa), so is TECHNIQUE (Messi is literally nowhere in fifa 11 because he's not strong. WTH is that. Messi is not as strong in real life, but his body balance in incredible. In fifa this does not matter). Basically, in fifa all you gotta do is pick a strong team with tall strong strikers and you can DOMINATE EVERYONE. I TOTALLY HATE THAT. There's no skill in that.
And as for the premier league. I don't like it that much because of all the physicality talk and stuff. But then again, if the premier league bases everything on physicality then it wouldn't be comeptitive in europe. I guess some people who only watch the league will say that it's all about physicality but THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME UNDERSTANDING AND POSITIONING (and this is where fifa has done wrong. It bases everything on physicality and doesn't see other things which aren't as appearant at frst, but are actually much more important).
Though the Serie A (which I agree with you) is actually a league where you have to play smart, and positioning and skill are much more important.

Sup Shaun7,

Reading your post above and others....i have come to the conclusion that the fault is not Fifa 11.....it is actually you noob.

Nobody dominates anyone in Fifa11. They push...you push back. You win some you lose some....you know like in real football.

You suck at Fifa11 and thats just the truth.
Try PES it is infact easier.

As i suggested b4, most of you noobs here don't even play Fifa.
Amatuer doesn't as he is constantly cursing both games and Tech has admitted that he doesn't play games he only test them....whatever that means.

Fifa11 the best football game on any console.

HANDS DOWN :w00t

 

[S-D-P]

I find FIFA easier than pes as the manual passing on fifa seems assisted, the manual passing was perfect in fifa 2008,09 and 10. I feel I have mastered fifa(offline) whereas PES offers me something different every game. I have played fifa non stop for the past three years but I cant see me ever going back to it. Ockrass trust me mate I am no newb with regard to fifa and I think its a great game, the problem is it DOES NOT feel like football and offline its almost embarrassing.

FIFA 11 is a great game, at one stage until I played pes I said in this thread it was the best football game ever made, now the thought of playing fifa makes me feel slightly sick, read my posts in this thread I licked fifa's arse until I saw it for what it was. Shaun is right in many respects.

 

[Amateur]

Sup Shaun7,

Reading your post above and others....i have come to the conclusion that the fault is not Fifa 11.....it is actually you noob.

Nobody dominates anyone in Fifa11. They push...you push back. You win some you lose some....you know like in real football.

You suck at Fifa11 and thats just the truth.
Try PES it is infact easier.

As i suggested b4, most of you noobs here don't even play Fifa.
Amatuer doesn't as he is constantly cursing both games and Tech has admitted that he doesn't play games he only test them....whatever that means.

Fifa11 the best football game on any console.

HANDS DOWN :w00t

I don't like to talk shit like you do, I don't have FIFA11 because I think that, like PES11, it is an outdated and noob-based video game.

I have played every FIFA game since 2001, I have always beaten the so-called "hardcore" gamers since always, most of the time, a rare defeat here and there; FIFA08 was actually good, FIFA09 was rubbish, FIFA10 was rubbish, FIFA11 is more of the same rubbish.

At the end of the day, it's not a matter of me being very good at it or very bad at it, it's not a matter of difficulty; it's a matter of the game not being good enough.... It is too outdated, FIFA11 would have seemed cool a few years back, but not in year 2010.

It gives the USER a false sensation of skill, and yet, the USER never has to think about anything because the video game has nothing to do with Football; it does not require any real level of skills, it's all about cheap tricks and thrills, and reacting to COM dictated circumstances.

Having said that, why don't you give me your e-mail, so that I can beat your ass at FIFA11?

After someone who does not own FIFA11 beats you at it, then you might understand why I think it is not worth my time nor my money.

 

[Avelives]

Try PES it is infact easier.

Fifa has always been easier than PES, regardless what anyone thinks of both games PES is just a harder game than FIFA and always was. Thats why my 9 year old nephew loves Fifa and cant beat anyone at PES, FIFA is designed to appeal to the masses much more so than PES is, the masses = people like you

No shame in that but its just a fact.

 

[shaun7]

Sup Shaun7,

Reading your post above and others....i have come to the conclusion that the fault is not Fifa 11.....it is actually you noob.

Nobody dominates anyone in Fifa11. They push...you push back. You win some you lose some....you know like in real football.

You suck at Fifa11 and thats just the truth.
Try PES it is infact easier.

As i suggested b4, most of you noobs here don't even play Fifa.
Amatuer doesn't as he is constantly cursing both games and Tech has admitted that he doesn't play games he only test them....whatever that means.

Fifa11 the best football game on any console.

HANDS DOWN :w00t

Hey genious.
After reading your post, I concluded only 1 outcome.
You're a fifa fanboy that can't take negatives towards you're beloved fifa. People like you ruin a community.
You're only here to say how fifa is the best. There's no need for that.
And for your knowledge.
I played fifa 10 on world class and legendary and could still win.
BUT IF YOU CAN'T SEE THE OBVIOUS AI INTERFERANCE AND CHEATING and the SUPER OBVIOUS SCRIPTING, then you are blind.