Right, Time For Some Real Talk on This Fifa/PES Buisness

[dicky_t]

one last thing tech. Not only have your neutral and logical comments concerning the PES/fifa debate made you go up in made estimation, but the fact that you have a picture of the legend that is Timothy Dalton in Licence to Kill as your profile picture makes me thnk that you're actually a pretty clever guy. He for me is the best bond, true to fleming, and just a general legend in both his bond films

haha i thought i was bodie from the proffesionals

 

[renegade90]

I feel people overrate PES' gameplay.

Professional footballs don't kick a ball like they do in PES, its somthing that has annoyed me for ages. Don't get me wrong i like Pro11 and plan too buy it. However the gameplay is far from realistic. Very far infact.

 

[Gato]

The demo of FIFA 11 is way inferior in ALL regards to the full game, which I already own. This year's demo is based on a very old build by the looks of it.
That 10/10 score is not too far from what FIFA 11 deserves. Superb game.

 

[minenow]

Tech Skill arguing the merits of PES over Fifa... if there was ever an indication as to how much PES11 is throwing the cat amongst the pigeons in the fifa community this must surely be it.

I've lurked here long enough to remember several of Tech's fire and brimstone condemnations of PES 10 and wondered about the sanity of a man's increasingly abusive trades with members of a site called PESGaming for, shockingly, supporting their chosen platform of footballing entertainment. Wondered, laughed my arse off, and went about my day. In fairness, he wasn't the only one ...

Still it seems I alongside a proportion of the PESGaming community ("you're our hero Tech!" :lol underestimated Mr. Skill. It appears that he's simply a highly emotional chap who expects ALOT from his football gaming experience and who would deny him that? Moderator's aparrently, but now we're all friends again ("I love you tech!") I'd like to add the following to this debate.

I've never bought a Fifa football title since the cluster fuck versions of the 90's. Then satan's spawn (read marketing) decided this next gen thing meant the prettier it looks, the better it is (read "the more money we make") and poor old Konami got all confused. Silly Konami. PES 8, PES 9 and PES10 followed. And no, they were not, by comparison, good. But they were prettier... meanwhile Fifa start to take themselves seriously and developed, by comparison to their previous efforts, a far superior game in Fifa 10.

So... I know there's a fair few of you out there in the community that made the leap from Pro to Fifa last year. This question is for you:

I'm not blind to the faults of Pro's previous efforts but neither am I blind to Fifa's prior tendencies to put style over substance. Don't talk to me about stadia, or commentary (though PES is in dire need of a decent commentary team and script), or licences because it pales into insignifiance in the face of the core mechanics of the game. It's beautiful for a reason...

To someone who is genuinely on the fence, and refuses to shell out the best part of £70 for both, lets indeed have some real talk on this. IGN, OPM, infact most of these so called independent reviewers all have, wait for it, agendas:shocking:. So, step forward those of you who have clocked up some serious hours on both demos and compare and contrast the following.

Ball Physics

Crossing

Passing

Dribbling

Tricks

Shooting

AI both Defensive and Offensive

Refereeing

Tactical Options (I was intrigued by Fifa' introduction of set piece plays but how did this work in practice?)

Anyone willing to give it a go?

 

[nick nack]

I have to agree with most of Techs comments.His language makes me laugh tho lol

 

[Tech_Skill]

This is gonna piss people off, but fuck it, I LIKE the refeering in PES2011, Im a Serie A watcher so im used to seeing bullshit freekicks being given away for minor contact and I think there is a possibly it might dissuade pressure whores.

Some of the refs in FIFA11 ref under UFC rules, Iv'e clattered a few CPU players in the game and the ref does nothing, my experiences with previous FIFA's amount to the CPU being able to do ju-jitsu style attacks on you and the ref allows it, meanwhile if you brush the CPU with your toenail, its a foul.

I need to play fifa11 demo again, haven't played much of either demo of late, but played alot more PES2011.

 

[k4021]

but fifa improves every year because the gameplay is brilliantly upgraded 360 movement i just wished pes went back to the ps2 era wear it owned fifa by years

The thing that really annoys me about the FIFA vs PRO debate is the stupid marketing gimmicks that come into it. e.g 360 movement - 360 degree movement has been about since psone days although its just recently that FIFA decided to print it on the box and advertise that it is possible to move the stick through 360 degrees and you don't have to use the d-pad so you can make the player go through 360 degrees but obviously FIFA fanboys never figured out that you could use the stick to move around by 360 degrees before FIFA 10.
Now every review talks a load of garbage about new FIFA gimmicks eg 360 degree movement (you can move the stick 360 degrees, never done that in a football game before)/ Passing+ (the longer you press the pass button the harder the pass, what an mindblowing innovation) / Personality (goalkeepers, midfielders, defenders and strikers have different abilities,who would have thought that would be in any football game) as if they were incredible innovations when in fact its nothing new or innovative and but has been in all football games since psone and n64 where you had a stick that moved 360 degrees and pressing the pass button for longer causes a stronger pass and different types of players had different attributes. What could be next for FIFA 12 how about SuperShot 360 degree control (you have to press the shoot button for longer to make the player strike it harder and you can shoot around 360 degrees) or Sprint control pro (the harder you press the trigger down the faster the player runs), or some other game defining world changing innovation that is actually to borrow a phrase of TECHs a bit of External Rectal output pro.
Such gimmicks distract you from the real pros and cons of the game as if you hadn't read the absurd FIFA marketing gimmicks you would think differently of the game no-one would have noticed 360 degree movement if FIFA hadn't printed it on all the boxes and made sure it appeared in every single review. PES 2010 represented the personality of teams and players much better than FIFA 10 and probably FIFA 11 yet because FIFA is marketing this every reviewer is going to mentions it as if it is a brilliant new innovation when for all you know the code for personalities could be almost identical to FIFA 10.
If you read the reviews for FIFA 10 how many mention the chip shot cheat where you could score with a chip shot every time, or dodgy referees+goalkeepers,or that alot of the players looked like characters from the Bash Street Kids or that you can just bash away at the pass button and the pass always goes perfectly to a free player who always has perfect one touch control and no team even 2nd division ones ever misplace a pass --Answer : none
However the great thing about PES is that it is judged by the gameplay not marketing gimmicks and that is why reviewers give it lower but more honest scores. Konami seem to be listening to customers rather than is the case with FIFA who brainwash customers with a load of nonsensical marketing into believing that because of a few fancy words printed on the back that it is a new innovative game completely different than the one they released a few months back.

Also just typed FIFA 11 glitch into youtube : 1,580 results
not bad for 10/10 game that hasn't been officially released

 

[Tech_Skill]

I plan to read the above post soon, however.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyJeeAF6G-Y&feature=player_embedded#

Final version of pes 2011.

Looks superspeed, probably the way it was filmed and such and such.......I hope....it better not look that fast on -2 speed.

Pay attention to the in-game atmosphere......

Edit: Here is another one,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqgqleHbgCg

Im assuming this is final version, some of the animations suck ass to the bone, look at the 1st eto'o goal in this video, one of the most unrealistic goals ever seen. And the speed has got me worried man, the in game atmosphere with chants added in is crazy, it seems awesome.

 

[unclefredo]

However the great thing about PES is that it is judged by the gameplay not marketing gimmicks and that is why reviewers give it lower but more honest scores. Konami seem to be listening to customers rather than is the case with FIFA who brainwash customers with a load of nonsensical marketing into believing that because of a few fancy words printed on the back that it is a new innovative game completely different than the one they released a few months back.

No offence here, I have no favour toward either side but aren't Konami guilty of doing exactly the same? "Engineered for Freedom" ring a bell? The only point is they've improved the passing in PES. I could understand if this was a theme throughout the game but it's not - such as moving the wall, choice of penalty view, allowing players to run on, choosing strictness of the referees - i could go on forever. 360 degree movement? Konami lauded exactly the same this year did they not? They've just implemented it poorly. Point is that Konami used to be about integrity of the gameplay - it's not true anymore. If people on here are honest with themselves, they surely have to realise this. Both games are trying to hook gimmicky slogans onto fairly average games. I do agree with one point tho, EA haven't changed much since WC2010 - but to be fair, that is a decent game. PES2010 isn't.

 

[James_dean]

I plan to read the above post soon, however.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyJeeAF6G-Y&feature=player_embedded#

Final version of pes 2011.

Looks superspeed, probably the way it was filmed and such and such.......I hope....it better not look that fast on -2 speed.

Pay attention to the in-game atmosphere......

Edit: Here is another one,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqgqleHbgCg

Im assuming this is final version, some of the animations suck ass to the bone, look at the 1st eto'o goal in this video, one of the most unrealistic goals ever seen. And the speed has got me worried man, the in game atmosphere with chants added in is crazy, it seems awesome.

You shouldn´t worry about the speed of the full game, it must be the same as in the demo with the option to change it however I´v noticed how many people prefer playing the game at +2. It shows how much the speed option is needed because pleasing millions of people isn´t a simple task.
I noticed in the first video that when crossing the ball into the opp area the defender still backs away, that bug is much more serious than the bug being able to jog down to the corner flag as no one will use it unless playing the game against the AI and having no ambitious at all of playing beautiful football.

 

[cluch69]

You shouldn´t worry about the speed of the full game, it must be the same as in the demo with the option to change it however I´v noticed how many people prefer playing the game at +2. It shows how much the speed option is needed because pleasing millions of people isn´t a simple task.
I noticed in the first video that when crossing the ball into the opp area the defender still backs away, that bug is much more serious than the bug being able to jog down to the corner flag as no one will use it unless playing the game against the AI and having no ambitious at all of playing beautiful football.

whenever there is a choice, in ANY game for it o go slower paced i always choose it
pes 2010 was a decent game when you slowed the gameplay speed down using kitserver

however something ive noticed about the fifa 11 demo is that slow gameplay speed, instead of simply slowing down sprinting, the speed of the ball on the pitch, ANIMATIONS are slowed down, whilst it makes sense for skill moves etc, it doesnt make sense that making a pass up the wing, the player has to "think" about what youve just inputted

it leaves fifa being broken down in the midfield as a glorified game of bumper cars

putting it on fast resolves this issue, springing up the same issue pro evo 2010 had, ferrari speed players bombing down the wing beating everybody then whipping in a 200mph cross

im liking the pro evo 2011 demo, but its far from perfect... something we will all have to keep in mind whilst choosing this year, neither are perfect, but personally i believe Pro evo is a better representation, granted not as good or polished game as fifa

 

[Dabeeds]

You shouldn´t worry about the speed of the full game, it must be the same as in the demo with the option to change it however I´v noticed how many people prefer playing the game at +2. It shows how much the speed option is needed because pleasing millions of people isn´t a simple task.
I noticed in the first video that when crossing the ball into the opp area the defender still backs away, that bug is much more serious than the bug being able to jog down to the corner flag as no one will use it unless playing the game against the AI and having no ambitious at all of playing beautiful football.

I noticed the defenders backing off on crosses too. My friend scored header goals on me with little ass Villa & Messi, while the much bigger Bayern cb's don't even attack the high balls like they would in real life.

It's not just crosses though, players back off on thru balls too and regular x passes, just letting them go right on by when they could easly been broken up or intercepted.

- Back to editing WE9.

 

[fick]

Just to throw a new iron in the fire...

From XBox 360 World head to head review:

Goals: FIFA shooting much improved & easier to score headers, PES shooting weightier, but GK's stay on the line far too often.

Matches: Depth of player individual abilities and natural feeling physics system make FIFA games feel different. PES's has a lack of depth and unconvincing physical confrontations. PES is better paced though.

Career Mode: New career options with both be a GK & a combined Be A Pro & Manager mode option. Same old for PES. No info available on the quality of the online ML yet.

Licences: Major addition of an online creation centre for FIFA. PES counters with a the stadium editor, but still a major lack of leagues to choose from.

Aesthetics: Much improved faces on FIFA, 11 different body types, winter playing gear, three sock heights and more emotions. Best player animations. PES also has new animations, but last years faces are beaten in quality by FIFA 2011's. The ball rolls better in PES though :huh:

FIFA verdict: A man of the match upgrade. 90/100

PES verdict: A more arcade like play and much better than last year. Still a distant second to FIFA. 79/100

Make of that what you will...

 

[Tech_Skill]

Matches: Depth of player individual abilities and natural feeling physics system make FIFA games feel different. PES's has a lack of depth ...............

I stopped reading here, honestly, these ''reviewers'' cannot be for real.

If there is ONE thing on earth that PES 2011 looks like having this year, its DEPTH.

And anyone who talks about fifa's player individuality in a favourable comparison to PES 2011 probably needs euthanizing, unless the fifa 11 final version is out of this world, I cant see how such a comparision can be made.

The REAL test is gonna be a few months from now, once people get the intial fifa wow factor outta their colon, will the game last? I looked on evo web the other day and someone who already has the final version said the same thing, to be honest, when I look for a serious review of fifa games, that's the place I go to, i dont fuck with them other bitches.

 

[fick]

The REAL test is gonna be a few months from now, once people get the intial fifa wow factor outta their colon, will the game last?

And therein lies the key to the whole matter. The worrying thing is that from a respected member's comments on this site, it looks like FIFA's bells & whistles are all in the correct places.

But as I said, make of it what you will.

 

[Tech_Skill]

And therein lies the key to the whole matter. The worrying thing is that from a respected member's comments on this site, it looks like FIFA's bells & whistles are all in the correct places.

But as I said, make of it what you will.

I'm playing the waiting game on this, i'll have a look at some final version videos and see what some of the more sensible people are chatting. I'm not getting suck assed again into wasting another 40 pound on some 3 week shit, for that kinda money I can get a ryanair flight to Ukraine and buy a 6ft blonde woman with Double D tits.

Thanks for the lookout.

 

[iamcanadianeh]

The thing that really annoys me about the FIFA vs PRO debate is the stupid marketing gimmicks that come into it. e.g 360 movement - 360 degree movement has been about since psone days although its just recently that FIFA decided to print it on the box and advertise that it is possible to move the stick through 360 degrees and you don't have to use the d-pad so you can make the player go through 360 degrees but obviously FIFA fanboys never figured out that you could use the stick to move around by 360 degrees before FIFA 10.

I have to disagree with this.

The kind of 360 movement introduced in PES 2010 and Fifa 10 is unlike anything that has been in a soccer game previously. Yes, there were games in the past where you could skate around anywhere you want, but the difference is that in this new type of 360 movement you can move anywhere, but only whenever the player touches the ball. These are pretty well known facts, and you can test them out for yourself by playing the games.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree that there is a lot of marketting hype, but this was not a case of that. In fact, it's also well known that Konami changed their entire project plan for PES 2010 half way through development (sacrificing Mo cap and animations) in order to implement 360 movement like Fifa was doing. They didn't quite get it right, but it was definitely there in PES 2010. Again, test the game for yourself and you will see the undeniable proof.

So yeah, I think it's a bit much to suggest that Konami did all this work in 2010 to implement something that isn't real or was always there to begin with. :shocking:

 

[Tech_Skill]

I have to disagree with this.

The kind of 360 movement introduced in PES 2010 and Fifa 10 is unlike anything that has been in a soccer game previously.

Agreed, This is ISS64 (think its called Perfect Striker in Japan) alot of people consider this 360 movement, to me, its not, the turning animations are quite deceptive, but on closer inspection it looks like 8 way movement to me, 16 way max.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8Vyg-0PeIQ

Secondly, I don't believe there is such a thing as 360 degree movement, the Analog controllers on todays machines don't allow you to turn from 1 degree to 2 degrees for example, so the whole concept of 360 degree movement is flawed imo. There is actually no such thing.

 

[shaun7]

^Yeah, that's what i said a few months back about the 360 movement. There's no such thing. It's all tricks with animations.

Matches: Depth of player individual abilities and natural feeling physics system make FIFA games feel different. PES's has a lack of depth

That has to be the most stupid thing ever. I mean seriously???
I hate reviewers like that. Why are they called professionals is beyond me.
That's the one thing pes accels greatly over fifa.
Overall Fifa 11 will be a better product no doubt, but pes 11 made some huge improvements and the gameplay is actually pretty good (not in terms of animations) in terms of players, individuality, tactics, and how it plays overall.
Why is no review mentioning fifa's horrible tackling system?
Or the stupid trick stick that you have to use every time to beat a defender (messi style is completly forgotten in fifa)? Or the FACT that the strength is hugely overrated in fifa where messi gets beaten by defenders easily because he's not as strong as certain players? Or the Refs that favour the AI hugely?
Man, pes 11 does have issues, BUT SO DOES FIFA AND IT'S ABOUT TIME SOMEONE MENTIONES THEM and actually admits that fifa is not flawless and that it hides it's glitches and weak point and blinds certain people with animations, flow and presentation.
Note: I may have sounded as a pes fanboy, but really, both are good games in my opinion, but I don't like these stupid reviews favouring a game without admitting it's faults.

 

[iamcanadianeh]

My point is that whether it's 360, or 180, or whatever, what we got with Fifa 10 and PES 2010 was new. No conspiracies here IMO